(teach) quoting the ancients

[karenstanleyma-3]

I think the virtue in quoting the ancients is that everyone already *knows* who said the original.  People do not, in any way, expect others to think that those quotes are their own work.

This is very different, and my experience with Chinese students leads me to believe they are quite aware of this as well, from copying an unknown person's work and presenting it as your own.

So perhaps our challenge is to help them acquire the language skills that allow them to express their own ideas, and to convince them that that goal is worth the effort it requires.  We will certainly not be successful with every student, but we can help almost everyone move closer.

Karen
http://karen.stanley.people.cpcc.edu
Charlotte, North Carolina, USA  

[Terence Egan]

Students don't know that it's wrong to copy material in quantity and pass it off as their own? They are pulling your collective legs!

The last time this issue arose, I spoke with several of my Chinese colleagues and other non-institutionalised Chinese friends about the matter. They were amused by the suggestion that students don't understand this (except at the narrowest of margins). Last night, I surveyed all of the Chinese high school students living in my apartment. He said that it's ridiculous and couldn't believe that foreigners would fall for such a claim. I'll try to repair the damage to our reputations before he leaves home for good.

In regarding to copying material from the great works, Karen has just pointed out the extraordinarily fundamental error that people appear to make. Proverbs don't usually require attribution. To add to that: the "cultural more" that great exposition should be copied was never intended to mean "stolen"; just as Deng Xiao Ping's "to get rich is glorious" was never meant to mean "pillage and plunder at will".

Yes, the students will say that they didn't understand that it was wrong, but that don't make it so, Joe.

 Terence Egan



 
________________________________

Terence R. Egan
Associate Professor
Business School
Central University of Finance and Economics
Beijing, PR China
Mob: [phone]




________________________________
From: karenstanleyma <karen.stanley@...>
To: TEFLChina@...
Sent: Tue, 27 October, 2009 6:53:47 PM
Subject: (teach) quoting the ancients

 
I think the virtue in quoting the ancients is that everyone already *knows* who said the original. People do not, in any way, expect others to think that those quotes are their own work.

This is very different, and my experience with Chinese students leads me to believe they are quite aware of this as well, from copying an unknown person's work and presenting it as your own.

So perhaps our challenge is to help them acquire the language skills that allow them to express their own ideas, and to convince them that that goal is worth the effort it requires. We will certainly not be successful with every student, but we can help almost everyone move closer.

Karen
http://karen. stanley.people. cpcc.edu
Charlotte, North Carolina, USA





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[Jada Rufo]

Karen wrote:
We will certainly not be successful with every student, but we can help almost everyone move closer.
>
>
And teach them one lesson at a time.

I had a student who would come to my house to use my computer downloading and using pictures of mine on his Facebook profile. This was before FB was banned.?I logged on to see his profile only to find that his "picture" was a picture that I had taken while in Xi'an. It was a photo of one of the terra cotta soldiers in the museum. I asked him if he had ever been to Xi'an and of course he said "no."

I also found photos of my former colleague on my computer. I asked her if she had given our students permission to download her pictures.?She said that she did not give them permission.
When she came back for a visit with me and our student friends she told them that it is NOT okay to download pictures and use them without permission. We both told them but we did it in such a way that wasn't threatening.

Jada