: URGENT: Rocs inclusion and kdeedu module future
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: URGENT: Rocs inclusion and kdeedu module future
by Anne-Marie Mahfouf-2
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Hi,
We have a new program ready for KDE 4.4 in playground/edu, Rocs, a Graph Theory program. Considering it is more specialized than other Edu applications, I asked the release-team about the opportunity of creating a new module: kdescience with Rocs and Cantor (and maybe Kyle). This is accepted as a possibility but there are other options. However soft feature freeze is tomorrow which implies that the decision should be taken today in order to be added to the feature plan. An option would be for KDE-Edu to be in the near future a project like KOffice, slightly detached from KDE main but we could still release at the same dates. This would make us stronger as a branding identity provided we have the resources to make it happen: logo, better website, ... At the moment I am too busy with personal life to take care of it (I am frequently away to see my parents, without internet and without time for KDE, I am sorry I cannot be more present to organize a meeting and boost us). However other people can step in to coordinate this (noneed tobe a developer!) So basically for the 4.4 release, we have several options: - include Rocs in kdeedu module and wait for 4.5 to make changes - create a kdescience module with Rocs and Cantor for 4.4 and see what we want to do for 4.5 - make KDE-Edu a specific project which would need some special promotion and teamwork. What do you think? Anne-Marie _______________________________________________ kde-edu mailing list kde-edu@... https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-edu |
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Re: : URGENT: Rocs inclusion and kdeedu module future
by Bugzilla from ps_ml@gmx.de
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1 Anne-Marie Mahfouf schrieb: > Hi, > > We have a new program ready for KDE 4.4 in playground/edu, Rocs, a Graph > Theory program. > > Considering it is more specialized than other Edu applications, I asked the > release-team about the opportunity of creating a new module: kdescience > with Rocs and Cantor (and maybe Kyle). This is accepted as a possibility but > there are other options. > However soft feature freeze is tomorrow which implies that the decision should > be taken today in order to be added to the feature plan. > > An option would be for KDE-Edu to be in the near future a project like KOffice, > slightly detached from KDE main but we could still release at the same dates. > This would make us stronger as a branding identity provided we have the > resources to make it happen: logo, better website, ... At the moment I am too > busy with personal life to take care of it (I am frequently away to see my > parents, without internet and without time for KDE, I am sorry I cannot be > more present to organize a meeting and boost us). However other people can > step in to coordinate this (noneed tobe a developer!) > > So basically for the 4.4 release, we have several options: > - include Rocs in kdeedu module and wait for 4.5 to make changes > - create a kdescience module with Rocs and Cantor for 4.4 and see what we want > to do for 4.5 My problem with a new kdescience module is that work doubles, and the apps would be torn apart just for marketing reasons (do we really need increased marketing and not something else?). > - make KDE-Edu a specific project which would need some special promotion and > teamwork. Hm. Hm. Hm. > > What do you think? > > Anne-Marie > > > _______________________________________________ > kde-edu mailing list > kde-edu@... > https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-edu > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (MingW32) iEYEARECAAYFAkrwJB0ACgkQi49rfdk/G3Y22ACcDNshz0VlejZ8a+MolzmmkwT3 fvgAn2XQjrvAT5GYIdYIv4240dx/SdAC =oVTK -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- _______________________________________________ kde-edu mailing list kde-edu@... https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-edu |
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Re: : URGENT: Rocs inclusion and kdeedu module future
by Jeremy Whiting-3
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On Tue, Nov 3, 2009 at 4:21 AM, Anne-Marie Mahfouf <annemarie.mahfouf@...> wrote: Hi, I vote for option 1, I don't think we have the time or resources to make such a drastic change as option 3 right now. my 2c, Jeremy
_______________________________________________ kde-edu mailing list kde-edu@... https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-edu |
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: Fwd: URGENT: Rocs inclusion and kdeedu module future
by Bugzilla from jpwhiting@kde.org
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---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Jeremy Whiting <jeremypwhiting@...> Date: Tue, Nov 3, 2009 at 6:07 AM Subject: Re: [kde-edu]: URGENT: Rocs inclusion and kdeedu module future To: kde-edu@... On Tue, Nov 3, 2009 at 4:21 AM, Anne-Marie Mahfouf <annemarie.mahfouf@...> wrote: Hi, I vote for option 1, I don't think we have the time or resources to make such a drastic change as option 3 right now. my 2c, Jeremy
_______________________________________________ kde-edu mailing list kde-edu@... https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-edu |
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Re: : URGENT: Rocs inclusion and kdeedu module future
by Aleix Pol-2
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On Tue, Nov 3, 2009 at 12:21 PM, Anne-Marie Mahfouf <annemarie.mahfouf@...> wrote: Hi, I think that drawing a line between kdeedu and kdescience will be extremely difficult and kind of disappointing to some users. Maybe what would be a better idea would be to separe kdeedu between kids and grown up's, in case there is people that doesn't like to have kbruch and cantor together, which I understand that makes the "grown up's" applications less important and the kid's feel in the wrong place. KDE-Edu is not a bad umbrella though, since most science people is actually involved or at least conscious of education. And as an example, I guess one of the more common use cases for Rocs will be students (I'm sure you can find something outside, but still). As for special promotion and teamwork I think that we will need it we stay inside KDE or not, since the targeted users is very specific (teachers and late students, maybe parents) which can have different needs than a shiny desktop. I understand that if we don't do yet, it's because we don't have the resources. Aleix _______________________________________________ kde-edu mailing list kde-edu@... https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-edu |
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Re: : URGENT: Rocs inclusion and kdeedu module future
by Tomaz Canabrava
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I Agree with you Alexi,
I have commented with annma about a kde-scientific specially about the kids vs grown ups apps, there are apps that both enjoy, like marble, but a kid with cantor maybe will get scared running after mom, ( and cantor is a sweet app, I'm using it atm ). maybe we need to specify where that program will apply, for instance kbruch is till 4th grade, and Rocs and Cantor are College ones. On Tue, Nov 3, 2009 at 4:10 PM, Aleix Pol <aleixpol@...> wrote: > > > On Tue, Nov 3, 2009 at 12:21 PM, Anne-Marie Mahfouf > <annemarie.mahfouf@...> wrote: >> >> Hi, >> >> We have a new program ready for KDE 4.4 in playground/edu, Rocs, a Graph >> Theory program. >> >> Considering it is more specialized than other Edu applications, I asked >> the >> release-team about the opportunity of creating a new module: kdescience >> with Rocs and Cantor (and maybe Kyle). This is accepted as a possibility >> but >> there are other options. >> However soft feature freeze is tomorrow which implies that the decision >> should >> be taken today in order to be added to the feature plan. >> >> An option would be for KDE-Edu to be in the near future a project like >> KOffice, >> slightly detached from KDE main but we could still release at the same >> dates. >> This would make us stronger as a branding identity provided we have the >> resources to make it happen: logo, better website, ... At the moment I am >> too >> busy with personal life to take care of it (I am frequently away to see my >> parents, without internet and without time for KDE, I am sorry I cannot be >> more present to organize a meeting and boost us). However other people can >> step in to coordinate this (noneed tobe a developer!) >> >> So basically for the 4.4 release, we have several options: >> - include Rocs in kdeedu module and wait for 4.5 to make changes >> - create a kdescience module with Rocs and Cantor for 4.4 and see what we >> want >> to do for 4.5 >> - make KDE-Edu a specific project which would need some special promotion >> and >> teamwork. >> >> What do you think? >> >> Anne-Marie >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> kde-edu mailing list >> kde-edu@... >> https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-edu > > I think that drawing a line between kdeedu and kdescience will be extremely > difficult and kind of disappointing to some users. > Maybe what would be a better idea would be to separe kdeedu between kids and > grown up's, in case there is people that doesn't like to have kbruch and > cantor together, which I understand that makes the "grown up's" applications > less important and the kid's feel in the wrong place. KDE-Edu is not a bad > umbrella though, since most science people is actually involved or at least > conscious of education. And as an example, I guess one of the more common > use cases for Rocs will be students (I'm sure you can find something > outside, but still). > > As for special promotion and teamwork I think that we will need it we stay > inside KDE or not, since the targeted users is very specific (teachers and > late students, maybe parents) which can have different needs than a shiny > desktop. I understand that if we don't do yet, it's because we don't have > the resources. > > Aleix > > > > > _______________________________________________ > kde-edu mailing list > kde-edu@... > https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-edu > > -- Um Computador sem Windows é como um Navio sem dançarinas de Can-Can _______________________________________________ kde-edu mailing list kde-edu@... https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-edu |
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Re: : URGENT: Rocs inclusion and kdeedu module future
by Matt Williams-7
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2009/11/3 Tomaz Canabrava <tumaix@...>:
> I Agree with you Alexi, > I have commented with annma about a kde-scientific specially about the > kids vs grown ups apps, there are apps that both enjoy, like marble, > but a kid with cantor maybe will get scared running after mom, ( and > cantor is a sweet app, I'm using it atm ). maybe we need to specify > where that program will apply, for instance kbruch is till 4th grade, > and Rocs and Cantor are College ones. But with some applications it's harder. For example I've been using Kalzium since I was in year 10 (age ~14 years) and still use it now when I'm doing my Physics PhD. It's the same with KStars I guess. These applications are so useful to such a great range of ages that it's hard to classify them. I think by this point _most_ of the applications are applicable to a large range of ages and there's only a few which are aimed just at children (and even those can be used with adults with learning difficulties) and so a hard split doesn't make sense. I think the current system of putting each application into one or more categories is the simplest and does the job we need. While I do like the idea of a kdescience module I think that in the long-run, marketing kdeedu as an almost standalone package could be a good thing. We need to get the public out of the "it's just a few edu apps bundled with kde" attitude and into the "it's a great suite of edu and scientific apps (built on the KDE libraries)" -- Matt Williams http://milliams.com _______________________________________________ kde-edu mailing list kde-edu@... https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-edu |
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Re: : URGENT: Rocs inclusion and kdeedu module future
by RalfGesellensetter
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Hi Matt,
I enjoyed reading your most interesting considerations. Am Wednesday, 4. November 2009 schrieb Matt Williams: > While I do like the idea of a kdescience module I think that in the > long-run, marketing kdeedu as an almost standalone package could be a > good thing. I would add another pro of kdeedu: there is a good synergy between its applications that are re-using libraries and sharing formats (like kvml) ... As for Rocs: Just heard about it and am getting curious. I like graph theory -- and am aware that there are approaches to teach parts of it to students aged 12+ (riddles, puzzles like hamilton cycle, but also Dijkstra). Until now I only knew graphthing (Debian package). Now I wonder if Roc (as part of kdeedu) addresses younger students in a particular way? Regards Ralf _______________________________________________ kde-edu mailing list kde-edu@... https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-edu |
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Re: : URGENT: Rocs inclusion and kdeedu module future
by Aleix Pol-2
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On Tue, Nov 3, 2009 at 12:21 PM, Anne-Marie Mahfouf <annemarie.mahfouf@...> wrote: Hi, Well, I've been thinking about that again, I'm saying quite a bit the same but I'll try to develop a little bit more so that I can give you some idea (maybe xD). For now Rocs can stay inside KDE-Edu like all other application, but the concern is still applicable, I think and it's something that we have to solve in the (near) future. If it's not possible to have a presencial kdeedu meeting (like we had in paris) it would be good to have some in IRC at least. We should clarify KDE-Edu's vision at this point, making presentations about KDE Edu is not as easy as it should be, we need some straightforward way to tell schools/teachers that with KDE they can find everything they need and how are things intended. Some help from kde-prom would be useful here I guess, since they have the experience. Also we should get in contact with some major user of KDE-Edu, that I suppose that somebody knows about one, but I don't, to know how do they use it and why. There's no competitor to KDE-Edu as a package AFAIK, so we can't just copy them :P. About making KDE-Edu some module separated from KDE like KOffice is, I'm not sure about that. In KDE-Edu we don't need different schedules I think, as for KAlgebra I'm perfectly fine with KDE's and not having to think when I'm going to release is something I like (I don't like thinking a lot as you see :). We still can have our own identity by being a KDE module and I think that being able to say we're part of KDE and we ship with KDE is fundamental. That's all, I hope I haven't been too boring ^^. Aleix _______________________________________________ kde-edu mailing list kde-edu@... https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-edu |
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Re: : URGENT: Rocs inclusion and kdeedu module future
by Anne-Marie Mahfouf-2
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On Friday 06 November 2009 20:33:31 Aleix Pol wrote:
> > Well, I've been thinking about that again, I'm saying quite a bit the same > but I'll try to develop a little bit more so that I can give you some idea > (maybe xD). > > For now Rocs can stay inside KDE-Edu like all other application, but the > concern is still applicable, I think and it's something that we have to > solve in the (near) future. > > If it's not possible to have a presencial kdeedu meeting (like we had in > paris) it would be good to have some in IRC at least. We should clarify > KDE-Edu's vision at this point, making presentations about KDE Edu is not > as easy as it should be, we need some straightforward way to tell > schools/teachers that with KDE they can find everything they need and how > are things intended. > Some help from kde-prom would be useful here I guess, since they have the > experience. Also we should get in contact with some major user of KDE-Edu, > that I suppose that somebody knows about one, but I don't, to know how do > they use it and why. There's no competitor to KDE-Edu as a package AFAIK, > so we can't just copy them :P. > > About making KDE-Edu some module separated from KDE like KOffice is, I'm > not sure about that. In KDE-Edu we don't need different schedules I think, > as for KAlgebra I'm perfectly fine with KDE's and not having to think when > I'm going to release is something I like (I don't like thinking a lot as > you see > > :). We still can have our own identity by being a KDE module and I think > > that being able to say we're part of KDE and we ship with KDE is > fundamental. > > That's all, I hope I haven't been too boring ^^. > > Aleix > organized the Plasma one is trying to see if he can get us in Switzerland, as soon as there is something precise he'll mail the list) and if we could get some promo (and website) people that wouldbe awesome. I agree with your view. When I said we could detach from KDE like KOffice that was more as a marketing and promotion strategy than as a development one: we could still release with KDE and we must do so in fact (just as KDevelop does now). We need to think about communication and your thoughts are good: we need to clarify the vision. Let's see if we can arrange an IRC meeting as proposed by Nightrose (thanks) Anne-Marie _______________________________________________ kde-edu mailing list kde-edu@... https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-edu |
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