[Classpath-inetlib] Win CE port

[Philippe Laporte-2]

Hi,
  I believe that Classpath has been ported to Win CE, correct?

What library did you use to achieve POSIX compatibility? What toolchain?

Thanks,

--
Philippe Laporte
Software

Gatespace Telematics
Första Långgatan 18
41328 Göteborg
Sweden
Phone: [phone]
Fax:   [phone]
Email: philippe.laporte@...



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[Roman Kennke-2]

Hi Philippe,

Am Donnerstag, den 19.01.2006, 18:56 +0100 schrieb Philippe Laporte:
> Hi,
>   I believe that Classpath has been ported to Win CE, correct?

No, that is not the case. <plug>The JamaicaVM (a Classpath-based
commercial VM, http://www.aicas.com ) has a (somewhat experimental) port
for WinCE.</plug>

> What library did you use to achieve POSIX compatibility? What toolchain?

We use the standard GNU toolchain.

Cheers, Roman



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[Mark Wielaard]

Hi Philippe,

On Thu, 2006-01-19 at 18:56 +0100, Philippe Laporte wrote:
>   I believe that Classpath has been ported to Win CE, correct?

Take a look at Mysaifu. It is a runtime that runs on Windows Mobile 2003
software for Pocket PC (Pocket PC 2003). Which, if I understood
correctly is some variant of Windows CE. It is based on GNU Classpath
and distributed under the GPL.
http://www2s.biglobe.ne.jp/~dat/java/project/jvm/index_en.html

Cheers,

Mark


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[Philippe Laporte-2]

Hi,
    You mean it's a simple gcc target?

Thanks,

Philippe Laporte
Software

Gatespace Telematics
Första Långgatan 18
41328 Göteborg
Sweden
Phone: [phone]
Fax:   [phone]
Email: philippe.laporte@...



Roman Kennke wrote:

>Hi Philippe,
>
>Am Donnerstag, den 19.01.2006, 18:56 +0100 schrieb Philippe Laporte:
>  
>
>>Hi,
>>  I believe that Classpath has been ported to Win CE, correct?
>>    
>>
>
>No, that is not the case. <plug>The JamaicaVM (a Classpath-based
>commercial VM, http://www.aicas.com ) has a (somewhat experimental) port
>for WinCE.</plug>
>
>  
>
>>What library did you use to achieve POSIX compatibility? What toolchain?
>>    
>>
>
>We use the standard GNU toolchain.
>
>Cheers, Roman
>
>  
>

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[Philippe Laporte-2]

Hi,
     It is our understanding that a GPL VM can't be freely redistributed
in a commercial product.

We therefore have stopped looking after seeing a satisfactory LGPL VM.

Other insights?

Thanks a lot,

Philippe Laporte
Software

Gatespace Telematics
Första Långgatan 18
41328 Göteborg
Sweden
Phone: [phone]
Fax:   [phone]
Email: philippe.laporte@...



Mark Wielaard wrote:

>Hi Philippe,
>
>On Thu, 2006-01-19 at 18:56 +0100, Philippe Laporte wrote:
>  
>
>>  I believe that Classpath has been ported to Win CE, correct?
>>    
>>
>
>Take a look at Mysaifu. It is a runtime that runs on Windows Mobile 2003
>software for Pocket PC (Pocket PC 2003). Which, if I understood
>correctly is some variant of Windows CE. It is based on GNU Classpath
>and distributed under the GPL.
>http://www2s.biglobe.ne.jp/~dat/java/project/jvm/index_en.html
>
>Cheers,
>
>Mark
>  
>

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[Mark Wielaard]

Hi Phillipe,

On Fri, 2006-01-20 at 15:03 +0100, Philippe Laporte wrote:
>      It is our understanding that a GPL VM can't be freely redistributed
> in a commercial product.

There should be no trouble at all freely redistributing such a thing in
a commercial product. Just make sure you distribute the source code for
it to your users. See http://www.fsf.org/licensing/essays/selling.html
And if you have more questions on the use of GPL covered products please
feel free to contact licensing@..., they even provide a complaince
lab service for commercial entities. See
http://www.fsf.org/licensing/compliancelab.html

Cheers,

Mark

--
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[Per Bothner]

Mark Wielaard wrote:

> Hi Phillipe,
>
> On Fri, 2006-01-20 at 15:03 +0100, Philippe Laporte wrote:
>
>>     It is our understanding that a GPL VM can't be freely redistributed
>>in a commercial product.
>
>
> There should be no trouble at all freely redistributing such a thing in
> a commercial product. Just make sure you distribute the source code for
> it to your users.

Just to clarify:

Depends what you mean by "it".  If you mean the VM, that may not be
enough, since in an embedded environment it is likely the VM is linked
in with the commercial product.  In that case you may also have to
freely redistributing source for the commercial product.  (Of course
we know that Free ("open-source") Software is not incompatible with
it being commercial (i.e. for-profit) - but it is incompatible with
it being proprietary ("closed-source").)
--
        --Per Bothner
per@...   http://per.bothner.com/


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[Dalibor Topic]

Philippe Laporte wrote:
> Hi,
>     It is our understanding that a GPL VM can't be freely redistributed
> in a commercial product.

You can use and redistribute a GPLd VM, just like how you can use or
redistribute GNU/Linux in products. You need to comply with the
provisions of the GPL for the code you license from third parties under
the GPL, of course, be it a VM or the Linux kernel, but that part is the
same for any code under any license.

If you have questions and doubts regarding the precise legal effects of
the GPL in your situation, a wise choice is to ask a lawyer familar with
the GPL, like FSF's GPL-compliance lab, or, if you are interested in the
opinion of the people whose code you intend to use, you should ask the
affected projects, who may be familar with your use case.

That being said, if using a LGPLd VM works well for you, by all means
just use that.

Since I've talked with you recently on the Kaffe lists, I assume the
GPLd VM in this case is Kaffe, so I'll add that distributing a build of
Kaffe for Windows CE is fine, as long as you follow GPL's provisions
regarding the redistribution (i.e. all users receiving the executables
from you can get the source code for that particular Kaffe build with
all your patches and extensions to it).

As Per said, there are cases in embedded software development when
external factors make it very hard to follow GPL's provisions, so if
you, for example, wanted to inject a GPLd VM directly into the
proprietary WinCE kernel, you'd have to clear that with Microsoft first.

I'd additionally suggest making sure that your users understand that the
license, which covers your non-GPLd product does not cover the GPLd VM,
and vice versa  ... so users know they receive two separate products, at
least one of which they can use, study, modify and redistribute freely
themselves, namely the GPLd VM, in that case.

cheers,
dalibor topic


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[Roman Kennke-2]

Hi there,

Am Freitag, den 20.01.2006, 13:05 -0800 schrieb Per Bothner:

> Mark Wielaard wrote:
> > Hi Phillipe,
> >
> > On Fri, 2006-01-20 at 15:03 +0100, Philippe Laporte wrote:
> >
> >>     It is our understanding that a GPL VM can't be freely redistributed
> >>in a commercial product.
> >
> >
> > There should be no trouble at all freely redistributing such a thing in
> > a commercial product. Just make sure you distribute the source code for
> > it to your users.
>
> Just to clarify:
>
> Depends what you mean by "it".  If you mean the VM, that may not be
> enough, since in an embedded environment it is likely the VM is linked
> in with the commercial product.  In that case you may also have to
> freely redistributing source for the commercial product.

AFAICS this is true for the GPL, but not so with the GPL+linking
exception under which GNU Classpath is distibuted. Maybe someone with
more insight in the license (Mark? Dalibor?) could clarify this?

/Roman



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