[Discussion]Re-org admin console

[RunHua Chi]

Hi all,
Long time ago there was a discussion[1] on whether we could re-org admin console to improve user experiences for 2.2, which was cancelled for some reason, since we are now in the begining of big change of Geronimo architecture, I think it's a good opportunity that we bring this up and also for the coming 3.0 release.

  [1]  http://old.nabble.com/-DISCUSS--Reorg-of-Admin-Console-for-2.2-td20628217s134.html

Here are couples of thoughts in my mind to improve the console:
1. re-constructure the navigation tree to make it collapsible, the tree level should be less than 3;
2. re-orginize the avaliable tree items into new groups, for this one I'd like to vote +1 for what Jack had proposed in the previous thread;
 + Servers
  + Application Server
   - Geronimo Kernel (put Information, Java System Info, Thread Pool and Shutdown portlets in the same page here)
   - Web Server
   - JMS Server
   - EJB Server
   - DB server
   - Repository
   - New server assembly
+ Applications
 - Deploy New (Suggest to merge in the plan creator, so that users can either choose to use an existing plan file, or create a new one using the wizard)
 - User applications (merge WAR, EAR and Client, maybe bundles in the 3.0?)
 - Server plugins
+ Resources
 - DB pools
 - JMS resources
 - JEE Connectors
 - Jar Aliases
+ Security
 - Users and Groups
 - Keystores
 - Certificate Authority
 - Security Realms
+ Monitoring and Troubleshotting
 - Monitoring
 - Logs
 - Debug Views
 
3. re-construct the available portlets to improve embedded assistance information, for example, show breadcrum when user is working on a task; reduce in-line text on the current UI, and use hover-help or pop-up help page only when necessary etc...
4. for the long list on the current UI such as system modules, only show the most frequently used ones, use locate/find to display more....

Any comments?

Jeff C

[djencks]

On Nov 5, 2009, at 7:44 AM, chi runhua wrote:

Hi all,
Long time ago there was a discussion[1] on whether we could re-org admin console to improve user experiences for 2.2, which was cancelled for some reason, since we are now in the begining of big change of Geronimo architecture, I think it's a good opportunity that we bring this up and also for the coming 3.0 release.

  [1]  http://old.nabble.com/-DISCUSS--Reorg-of-Admin-Console-for-2.2-td20628217s134.html

Here are couples of thoughts in my mind to improve the console:
1. re-constructure the navigation tree to make it collapsible, the tree level should be less than 3;
2. re-orginize the avaliable tree items into new groups, for this one I'd like to vote +1 for what Jack had proposed in the previous thread;
 + Servers
  + Application Server
   - Geronimo Kernel (put Information, Java System Info, Thread Pool and Shutdown portlets in the same page here)
   - Web Server
   - JMS Server
   - EJB Server
   - DB server
   - Repository
   - New server assembly
+ Applications
 - Deploy New (Suggest to merge in the plan creator, so that users can either choose to use an existing plan file, or create a new one using the wizard)
 - User applications (merge WAR, EAR and Client, maybe bundles in the 3.0?)
 - Server plugins
+ Resources
 - DB pools
 - JMS resources
 - JEE Connectors
 - Jar Aliases
+ Security
 - Users and Groups
 - Keystores
 - Certificate Authority
 - Security Realms
+ Monitoring and Troubleshotting
 - Monitoring
 - Logs
 - Debug Views
 
3. re-construct the available portlets to improve embedded assistance information, for example, show breadcrum when user is working on a task; reduce in-line text on the current UI, and use hover-help or pop-up help page only when necessary etc...
4. for the long list on the current UI such as system modules, only show the most frequently used ones, use locate/find to display more....

Any comments?

These seem like basically good ideas to me.  I don't have time, energy, or skill to do most of this work myself.  If I were to propose some priorities for the admin console I would suggest getting it running under osgi on pluto 2 and finding some way to make the code simpler and easier to understand, perhaps by using a web programming framework such as jsf or wicket. A long time ago some web experts also suggested setting it up to use css in a more sophisticated way; this sounded like a great idea to me but I didn't understand any of the details.

thanks

david jencks

Jeff C

[Donald Woods-2]

I'd like to have the discussion of "Do we use the Felix Admin Console
vs. Pluto" first....

Personally, I think we need to focus on getting a Little-G minimal
equivalent working on trunk first (which doesn't include any Admin
Console) before we worry with all of the Console based plugins.


-Donald


chi runhua wrote:

> Hi all,
> Long time ago there was a discussion[1] on whether we could re-org admin
> console to improve user experiences for 2.2, which was cancelled for
> some reason, since we are now in the begining of big change of Geronimo
> architecture, I think it's a good opportunity that we bring this up and
> also for the coming 3.0 release.
>
>   [1]  
> http://old.nabble.com/-DISCUSS--Reorg-of-Admin-Console-for-2.2-td20628217s134.html
>
> Here are couples of thoughts in my mind to improve the console:
> 1. re-constructure the navigation tree to make it collapsible, the tree
> level should be less than 3;
> 2. re-orginize the avaliable tree items into new groups, for this one
> I'd like to vote +1 for what Jack had proposed in the previous thread;
>  + Servers
>   + Application Server
>    - Geronimo Kernel (put Information, Java System Info, Thread Pool and
> Shutdown portlets in the same page here)
>    - Web Server
>    - JMS Server
>    - EJB Server
>    - DB server
>    - Repository
>    - New server assembly
> + Applications
>  - Deploy New (Suggest to merge in the plan creator, so that users can
> either choose to use an existing plan file, or create a new one using
> the wizard)
>  - User applications (merge WAR, EAR and Client, maybe bundles in the 3.0?)
>  - Server plugins
> + Resources
>  - DB pools
>  - JMS resources
>  - JEE Connectors
>  - Jar Aliases
> + Security
>  - Users and Groups
>  - Keystores
>  - Certificate Authority
>  - Security Realms
> + Monitoring and Troubleshotting
>  - Monitoring
>  - Logs
>  - Debug Views
>  
> 3. re-construct the available portlets to improve embedded assistance
> information, for example, show breadcrum when user is working on a task;
> reduce in-line text on the current UI, and use hover-help or pop-up help
> page only when necessary etc...
> 4. for the long list on the current UI such as system modules, only show
> the most frequently used ones, use locate/find to display more....
>
> Any comments?
>
> Jeff C
>
>
>
>

[Shawn Jiang]

No matter what technology we might  choose to implement console.  #1,2,3 metioned by Jeff are doable without large effort, and could bring a considerable improvement on the usability of current console. I even think we can get these done in G2.2.X but not only for G3.0.

I suggest to open a JIRA to track the console usability issue while keeping the console tech choosing discussion onoging.

Comments ?

On Fri, Nov 6, 2009 at 12:25 AM, Donald Woods <dwoods@...> wrote:

I'd like to have the discussion of "Do we use the Felix Admin Console vs. Pluto" first....

Personally, I think we need to focus on getting a Little-G minimal equivalent working on trunk first (which doesn't include any Admin Console) before we worry with all of the Console based plugins.


-Donald

chi runhua wrote:

Hi all,
Long time ago there was a discussion[1] on whether we could re-org admin console to improve user experiences for 2.2, which was cancelled for some reason, since we are now in the begining of big change of Geronimo architecture, I think it's a good opportunity that we bring this up and also for the coming 3.0 release.

 [1]  http://old.nabble.com/-DISCUSS--Reorg-of-Admin-Console-for-2.2-td20628217s134.html

Here are couples of thoughts in my mind to improve the console:
1. re-constructure the navigation tree to make it collapsible, the tree level should be less than 3;
2. re-orginize the avaliable tree items into new groups, for this one I'd like to vote +1 for what Jack had proposed in the previous thread;
 + Servers
 + Application Server
  - Geronimo Kernel (put Information, Java System Info, Thread Pool and Shutdown portlets in the same page here)
  - Web Server
  - JMS Server
  - EJB Server
  - DB server
  - Repository
  - New server assembly
+ Applications
 - Deploy New (Suggest to merge in the plan creator, so that users can either choose to use an existing plan file, or create a new one using the wizard)
 - User applications (merge WAR, EAR and Client, maybe bundles in the 3.0?)
 - Server plugins
+ Resources
 - DB pools
 - JMS resources
 - JEE Connectors
 - Jar Aliases
+ Security
 - Users and Groups
 - Keystores
 - Certificate Authority
 - Security Realms
+ Monitoring and Troubleshotting
 - Monitoring
 - Logs
 - Debug Views
 3. re-construct the available portlets to improve embedded assistance information, for example, show breadcrum when user is working on a task; reduce in-line text on the current UI, and use hover-help or pop-up help page only when necessary etc...
4. for the long list on the current UI such as system modules, only show the most frequently used ones, use locate/find to display more....

Any comments?

Jeff C

--
Shawn

[Donald Woods-2]

Agree that we need some usability improvements (I tried in the past but
it was rejected....) but not for 2.2 if it is going to delay work on the
3.0 server.

Also, I wouldn't spend a lot of time rewriting existing portlets until
we decide what the base admin console will be, as I think you'll end up
at different implementation decisions/limitations if we use the Karaf
admin console vs. Pluto 2....


-Donald


Shawn Jiang wrote:

> No matter what technology we might  choose to implement console.  #1,2,3
> metioned by Jeff are doable without large effort, and could bring a
> considerable improvement on the usability of current console. I even
> think we can get these done in G2.2.X but not only for G3.0.
>
> I suggest to open a JIRA to track the console usability issue while
> keeping the console tech choosing discussion onoging.
>
> Comments ?
>
> On Fri, Nov 6, 2009 at 12:25 AM, Donald Woods <dwoods@...
> <mailto:dwoods@...>> wrote:
>
>     I'd like to have the discussion of "Do we use the Felix Admin
>     Console vs. Pluto" first....
>
>     Personally, I think we need to focus on getting a Little-G minimal
>     equivalent working on trunk first (which doesn't include any Admin
>     Console) before we worry with all of the Console based plugins.
>
>
>     -Donald
>
>
>
>     chi runhua wrote:
>
>         Hi all,
>         Long time ago there was a discussion[1] on whether we could
>         re-org admin console to improve user experiences for 2.2, which
>         was cancelled for some reason, since we are now in the begining
>         of big change of Geronimo architecture, I think it's a good
>         opportunity that we bring this up and also for the coming 3.0
>         release.
>
>          [1]
>          http://old.nabble.com/-DISCUSS--Reorg-of-Admin-Console-for-2.2-td20628217s134.html
>
>         Here are couples of thoughts in my mind to improve the console:
>         1. re-constructure the navigation tree to make it collapsible,
>         the tree level should be less than 3;
>         2. re-orginize the avaliable tree items into new groups, for
>         this one I'd like to vote +1 for what Jack had proposed in the
>         previous thread;
>          + Servers
>          + Application Server
>           - Geronimo Kernel (put Information, Java System Info, Thread
>         Pool and Shutdown portlets in the same page here)
>           - Web Server
>           - JMS Server
>           - EJB Server
>           - DB server
>           - Repository
>           - New server assembly
>         + Applications
>          - Deploy New (Suggest to merge in the plan creator, so that
>         users can either choose to use an existing plan file, or create
>         a new one using the wizard)
>          - User applications (merge WAR, EAR and Client, maybe bundles
>         in the 3.0?)
>          - Server plugins
>         + Resources
>          - DB pools
>          - JMS resources
>          - JEE Connectors
>          - Jar Aliases
>         + Security
>          - Users and Groups
>          - Keystores
>          - Certificate Authority
>          - Security Realms
>         + Monitoring and Troubleshotting
>          - Monitoring
>          - Logs
>          - Debug Views
>          3. re-construct the available portlets to improve embedded
>         assistance information, for example, show breadcrum when user is
>         working on a task; reduce in-line text on the current UI, and
>         use hover-help or pop-up help page only when necessary etc...
>         4. for the long list on the current UI such as system modules,
>         only show the most frequently used ones, use locate/find to
>         display more....
>
>         Any comments?
>
>         Jeff C
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> Shawn

[RunHua Chi]

If there is no objection, I'd like to file a JIRA to record the usability improvements/enhancement for 3.0.

About the technical approach, Pluto or Felix web console, IMHO it's about how to achieve these improvements, therefore we can discuss it in another thread.  :-)



Jeff C

On Fri, Nov 6, 2009 at 10:45 PM, Donald Woods <dwoods@...> wrote:

Agree that we need some usability improvements (I tried in the past but it was rejected....) but not for 2.2 if it is going to delay work on the 3.0 server.

Also, I wouldn't spend a lot of time rewriting existing portlets until we decide what the base admin console will be, as I think you'll end up at different implementation decisions/limitations if we use the Karaf admin console vs. Pluto 2....


-Donald


Shawn Jiang wrote:

No matter what technology we might  choose to implement console.  #1,2,3 metioned by Jeff are doable without large effort, and could bring a considerable improvement on the usability of current console. I even think we can get these done in G2.2.X but not only for G3.0.

I suggest to open a JIRA to track the console usability issue while keeping the console tech choosing discussion onoging.

Comments ?

On Fri, Nov 6, 2009 at 12:25 AM, Donald Woods <dwoods@... <mailto:dwoods@...>> wrote:

   I'd like to have the discussion of "Do we use the Felix Admin
   Console vs. Pluto" first....

   Personally, I think we need to focus on getting a Little-G minimal
   equivalent working on trunk first (which doesn't include any Admin
   Console) before we worry with all of the Console based plugins.


   -Donald



   chi runhua wrote:

       Hi all,
       Long time ago there was a discussion[1] on whether we could
       re-org admin console to improve user experiences for 2.2, which
       was cancelled for some reason, since we are now in the begining
       of big change of Geronimo architecture, I think it's a good
       opportunity that we bring this up and also for the coming 3.0
       release.

        [1]
        http://old.nabble.com/-DISCUSS--Reorg-of-Admin-Console-for-2.2-td20628217s134.html

       Here are couples of thoughts in my mind to improve the console:
       1. re-constructure the navigation tree to make it collapsible,
       the tree level should be less than 3;
       2. re-orginize the avaliable tree items into new groups, for
       this one I'd like to vote +1 for what Jack had proposed in the
       previous thread;
        + Servers
        + Application Server
         - Geronimo Kernel (put Information, Java System Info, Thread
       Pool and Shutdown portlets in the same page here)
         - Web Server
         - JMS Server
         - EJB Server
         - DB server
         - Repository
         - New server assembly
       + Applications
        - Deploy New (Suggest to merge in the plan creator, so that
       users can either choose to use an existing plan file, or create
       a new one using the wizard)
        - User applications (merge WAR, EAR and Client, maybe bundles
       in the 3.0?)
        - Server plugins
       + Resources
        - DB pools
        - JMS resources
        - JEE Connectors
        - Jar Aliases
       + Security
        - Users and Groups
        - Keystores
        - Certificate Authority
        - Security Realms
       + Monitoring and Troubleshotting
        - Monitoring
        - Logs
        - Debug Views
        3. re-construct the available portlets to improve embedded
       assistance information, for example, show breadcrum when user is
       working on a task; reduce in-line text on the current UI, and
       use hover-help or pop-up help page only when necessary etc...
       4. for the long list on the current UI such as system modules,
       only show the most frequently used ones, use locate/find to
       display more....

       Any comments?

       Jeff C







--
Shawn

[RunHua Chi]

Thanks for the discussion.  I filed a JIRA to track usability improvement in G3.0 for now.

https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/GERONIMO-4950

Jeff C

On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 3:33 PM, chi runhua <chirunhua@...> wrote:

If there is no objection, I'd like to file a JIRA to record the usability improvements/enhancement for 3.0.

About the technical approach, Pluto or Felix web console, IMHO it's about how to achieve these improvements, therefore we can discuss it in another thread.  :-)



Jeff C

On Fri, Nov 6, 2009 at 10:45 PM, Donald Woods <dwoods@...> wrote:

Agree that we need some usability improvements (I tried in the past but it was rejected....) but not for 2.2 if it is going to delay work on the 3.0 server.

Also, I wouldn't spend a lot of time rewriting existing portlets until we decide what the base admin console will be, as I think you'll end up at different implementation decisions/limitations if we use the Karaf admin console vs. Pluto 2....


-Donald


Shawn Jiang wrote:

No matter what technology we might  choose to implement console.  #1,2,3 metioned by Jeff are doable without large effort, and could bring a considerable improvement on the usability of current console. I even think we can get these done in G2.2.X but not only for G3.0.

I suggest to open a JIRA to track the console usability issue while keeping the console tech choosing discussion onoging.

Comments ?

On Fri, Nov 6, 2009 at 12:25 AM, Donald Woods <dwoods@... <mailto:dwoods@...>> wrote:

   I'd like to have the discussion of "Do we use the Felix Admin
   Console vs. Pluto" first....

   Personally, I think we need to focus on getting a Little-G minimal
   equivalent working on trunk first (which doesn't include any Admin
   Console) before we worry with all of the Console based plugins.


   -Donald



   chi runhua wrote:

       Hi all,
       Long time ago there was a discussion[1] on whether we could
       re-org admin console to improve user experiences for 2.2, which
       was cancelled for some reason, since we are now in the begining
       of big change of Geronimo architecture, I think it's a good
       opportunity that we bring this up and also for the coming 3.0
       release.

        [1]
        http://old.nabble.com/-DISCUSS--Reorg-of-Admin-Console-for-2.2-td20628217s134.html

       Here are couples of thoughts in my mind to improve the console:
       1. re-constructure the navigation tree to make it collapsible,
       the tree level should be less than 3;
       2. re-orginize the avaliable tree items into new groups, for
       this one I'd like to vote +1 for what Jack had proposed in the
       previous thread;
        + Servers
        + Application Server
         - Geronimo Kernel (put Information, Java System Info, Thread
       Pool and Shutdown portlets in the same page here)
         - Web Server
         - JMS Server
         - EJB Server
         - DB server
         - Repository
         - New server assembly
       + Applications
        - Deploy New (Suggest to merge in the plan creator, so that
       users can either choose to use an existing plan file, or create
       a new one using the wizard)
        - User applications (merge WAR, EAR and Client, maybe bundles
       in the 3.0?)
        - Server plugins
       + Resources
        - DB pools
        - JMS resources
        - JEE Connectors
        - Jar Aliases
       + Security
        - Users and Groups
        - Keystores
        - Certificate Authority
        - Security Realms
       + Monitoring and Troubleshotting
        - Monitoring
        - Logs
        - Debug Views
        3. re-construct the available portlets to improve embedded
       assistance information, for example, show breadcrum when user is
       working on a task; reduce in-line text on the current UI, and
       use hover-help or pop-up help page only when necessary etc...
       4. for the long list on the current UI such as system modules,
       only show the most frequently used ones, use locate/find to
       display more....

       Any comments?

       Jeff C







--
Shawn