[KDE Usability] "Align to grid" in office applications [was: Guides Insertor Docker]

2009/9/15 Thomas Zander <zander@...>:

> On Tuesday 15. September 2009 22.05.10 Jaroslaw S wrote:
>> To my knowledge it's statistically enabled in most apps. All office
>> apps of oo.org and mso IIRC.
>
> As OOo is a clone of MSOffice, I think thats exactly one example.
> Inkscape doesn't, KOffice1 didn't and I don't think we ever got a request to
> turn it on by default.
> Scribus doesn't either.
>
>> I, for one, always enable it, typical workflow require reasonable
>> positioning.
>
> I don't agree with changing the default, its fine that you turn it on with
> your first use if thats how you work.

Hmm, This is ridiculously strange that your expectations differ in
this area, so may I suggest more in depth analysis, and a call for
usage scenarios?
For example with the option turned off you cannot even create table
that is aligned to page boundary and create two boxes with text for a
diagram.
On the other hand, what's the gain from the turning the option down?

Let's dont compare koffice 1 to koffice 2, it's wrong example because
my note applies to koffice 1 too.
Scribus is not the same league and we know that. If I had to use such
comparison, I give you from your own company: Qt Designer. More
important, its defaulting to align-to-grid also affects defaults in
all kexi's designers, i.e. form and report designer.

I propose to reconsider the option, let it be based on survey or
opinion exert like Celeste, because we're here not to educate users
they've been in fatal mistake (oo.org + mso has the market share for
now) for 20+ years now.
Users you meet regularly may be way smarter, but my observations is
that the option is turned off, they usually wont even imagine there's
such an option and they will position shapes in an inaccurate manner
what will result in inferior quality of documents (layouts) coming
from koffice. Please note: in such case we have another factor that
can make the documents look worse.

To overcome the above issue, one would choose to implement "align to
control points/objects", but I rather doubt it can be delivered
anytime soon while there are more fundamental TODOs on the bugfix
list.

--
regards / pozdrawiam, Jaroslaw Staniek
 Kexi & KOffice (http://www.kexi-project.org, http://www.koffice.org)
 KDE Libraries for MS Windows (http://windows.kde.org)
 http://www.linkedin.com/in/jstaniek
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On Tuesday 15 September 2009 23:32:21 Jaroslaw Staniek wrote:

About what context we are talking exactly? Having such option at all,
or making it on/off by default?

>> To my knowledge it's statistically enabled in most apps. All office
>> apps of oo.org and mso IIRC.

Hmm, I have to have this option off in the oo.org and I even cannot
tell how to turn it on.

> For example with the option turned off you cannot even create table
> that is aligned to page boundary

You can, because table should be created by default with alignment to
page boundary.

> and create two boxes with text for
> a diagram.

? You can create two boxes regardless of this option.

> On the other hand, what's the gain from the turning the option
> down?

That you can divide columns exactly as you like without artificial
limitation. You can place box with text next to an image as you like.

I don't see align to grid is useful, however snap to object (maybe
this term is named differently) is more useful. This means object is
dragged by another object (if close enough). So user has 100% freedom
of choosing placement and size, but if she/he tries to adjust one
object (e.g. table) in relation to other object (e.g. page) program
helps in doing this.

> my observations is
> that the option is turned off,
> they usually wont even imagine
> there's such an option

That's maybe me with oo.org :-) On the other hand it might be a matter
of poor UI.

> and they will position shapes in an
> inaccurate manner

Please place an image right above the last "r". What is here
inaccuracy? With align to grid it is likely you have choice either
placing it over "n" or below "o".

> To overcome the above issue, one would choose to implement "align
> to control points/objects",

If you are thinking about the behaviour I described above, I say yes.
And I would say align to grid is "cheap" version of it, so it will be
useful anyway, but it should be off by default -- otherwise I think
users get mad while trying to adjust the width of the columns in the
table.

Cheers,
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On Tuesday 15. September 2009 23.32.21 Jaroslaw Staniek wrote:
> > I don't agree with changing the default, its fine that you turn it on
> > with your first use if thats how you work.
>
> Hmm, This is ridiculously strange that your expectations differ in
> this area,

I have worked with pre-press and creative people for some 10 years. The
snap-to-grid feature has always been off for all but one of them.
You may find it strange that these expectations differ from yours, thats fine.
People are different, and there is even a usability rule for that "you are
not your user".

If you play with the 3 tool-dockers from the default tool you will see we
have made adequate tools to allow proper positioning. People can type
coordinates directly to make them 'on grid'. People can align them to other
objects, people can snap them to other objects and last, people can still
turn on snap-to-grid in the view menu very easily. Its not like our view
menu is very long.

I am convinced that KOffice will be great for the usecases you have in mind.
--
Thomas Zander
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[Peter Gostelow]

On Tuesday 15 September 2009 21:32, Jaroslaw Staniek wrote:
> 2009/9/15 Thomas Zander <zander@...>:
> > On Tuesday 15. September 2009 22.05.10 Jaroslaw S wrote:
> >> To my knowledge it's statistically enabled in most apps. All office
> >> apps of oo.org and mso IIRC.
<snip>
> >
> >> I, for one, always enable it, typical workflow require reasonable
> >> positioning.

This is the proper user behaviour in handling default settings, imho. This
list gets regular requests to change defaults and most motivation is based on
some user experience.

Personally, I believe the only time defaults may be discussed are when they
create conflicts or contradictions which cripple the app itself.

There is a 90/10 rule here which states, "90% of the time a user will never
change more than 10% of the defaults". Another default rule states, "You can
configure defaults that satisfy some users some of the time, defaults that
satisfy some of the users all the time, and all users some of the time, but
never all the users all the time."

Defaults are, by definition, a compromise between usage and expectation. Most
developers define some mix of features as the default behaviour and expect
users to reconfigure as their workflow demands.

Unless you can show the current default impairs the app itself, your arguments
for changing the default may be persuasive, but not necessarily compelling.
An example is an app (e.g. Kate) which creates tilde backup files which all
users agree are annoying, but remains on by default because tilde files
provide better data protection. The grid alignment default has no similar
impact, so whatever its default, it will annoy at least one user (you for
example), but not all users.

The disadvantage to highly configurable software, that supports a wide range
of workflows, is that it must be configured to any given workflow and
therefore requires a higher skill level than non-configurable software. User
manuals should provide the necessary skills, but their value is not widely
recognized among user experts, so users are left to 'explore' the GUI, and/or
submit default request changes ;).

Regards,

Peter
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