[OT] Nanny state action

[Chris McCormick]

Hey All,

Sorry to post off-topic, but I think this deserves a lot more attention inside
Perth.

<http://www.thebutchershop.com.au/mailout/95/>

Is this really what kind of a state we want to live in?

Chris.

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[Kat Black-2]

Nope - which is probably why you left :P

best, kat =^..^=

2009/9/16 Chris McCormick <chris@...>:

> Hey All,
>
> Sorry to post off-topic, but I think this deserves a lot more attention inside
> Perth.
>
> <http://www.thebutchershop.com.au/mailout/95/>
>
> Is this really what kind of a state we want to live in?
>
> Chris.
>
> -------------------
> http://mccormick.cx
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: pigmi-unsubscribe@...
> For additional commands, e-mail: pigmi-help@...
>
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[Andy H-3]

Well when we have morons that try to pass bills like this in Parliament
what chance have we got in trying to block it?   Blind stupidity rules
over common sense every time sadly...

> Nope - which is probably why you left :P
>
> best, kat =^..^=
>
> 2009/9/16 Chris McCormick <chris@...>:
>  
>> Hey All,
>>
>> Sorry to post off-topic, but I think this deserves a lot more attention inside
>> Perth.
>>
>> <http://www.thebutchershop.com.au/mailout/95/>
>>
>> Is this really what kind of a state we want to live in?
>>
>> Chris.
>>
>> -------------------
>> http://mccormick.cx
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: pigmi-unsubscribe@...
>> For additional commands, e-mail: pigmi-help@...
>>
>>
>>    
>
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[AndyDent]

so, is there going to be a "personal use" limit on spray cans?

"Allo sir, you wouldn't be thinking of onselling some of those 200  
cans of spray paint to anyone under the age of 16, would you?"

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[jezza-b]

ridiculous hey.

it's like trying to plug a leaking dam with a pebble.
take away someone's silver pen and they'll pick up a black crayon.

j

AndyDent wrote:

so, is there going to be a "personal use" limit on spray cans?

"Allo sir, you wouldn't be thinking of onselling some of those 200  
cans of spray paint to anyone under the age of 16, would you?"

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[Ellen Jurik]

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Now there will be dual art supply and booze shops. Finally!
It all makes sense when you think of it like that.

"I'll have three bottles of Absinthe, a pallette knife, and that set of oil paints."
"Do you have any id?"
"Oh, of course: here."
"Thank you very much, Mr Van Gogh, you have a nice weekend."
"..."

---

From: jezza-b <jeremy.b@...>
To: pigmi@...
Sent: Thursday, 17 September, 2009 9:41:08 AM
Subject: Re: [PIGMI] [OT] Nanny state action


ridiculous hey.

it's like trying to plug a leaking dam with a pebble.
take away someone's silver pen and they'll pick up a black crayon.

j


AndyDent wrote:

>
> so, is there going to be a "personal use" limit on spray cans?
>
> "Allo sir, you wouldn't be thinking of onselling some of those 200 
> cans of spray paint to anyone under the age of 16, would you?"
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: pigmi-unsubscribe@...
> For additional commands, e-mail: pigmi-help@...
>
>
>

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[Tim-135]

I don't think this is too off topic! We can turn this into a game.

"Take control of WA's finest legislators as you attempt to defeat the insidious force of change, modernity and young people! Fast cars, rampant sexuality, and cans of spray paint are just some of the terrifying foes you will face in this hectic simulation. Successfully manage your ageing and conservative electorate to earn bonus points and deal massive damage! But don't forget to shut your shops at 5PM sharp and be in bed by 10, or it's game over!"

Thankyou, I'll be here all week.

Seriously though this is the stupidest thing I've read in a long time, what the fuck WA :(

On Wed, Sep 16, 2009 at 6:55 PM, Chris McCormick <chris@...> wrote:

Hey All,

Sorry to post off-topic, but I think this deserves a lot more attention inside
Perth.

<http://www.thebutchershop.com.au/mailout/95/>

Is this really what kind of a state we want to live in?

Chris.

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"You'll never use this dialogue as an anecdotal segue, copper!" he cried, and punched me in the mouth.

[Jon Hayward]

Remember kids, a email is worth 50 people, a mailed in letter is worth 500, a visit
to the rep in question? 10,000.

Turn trolling your ministers into a game!

On Wed Sep 16 20:51 , Ellen Jurik <sunlightsylph@...> sent:

>Now there will be dual art supply and booze shops. Finally!
>It all makes sense when you think of it like that.
>
>"I'll have three bottles of Absinthe, a pallette knife, and that set of oil
paints."

>"Do you have any id?"
>"Oh, of course: here."
>"Thank you very much, Mr Van Gogh, you have a nice weekend."
>"..."
>
>From: jezza-b <jeremy.b@...>
>To: pigmi@...
>Sent: Thursday, 17 September, 2009 9:41:08 AM
>Subject: Re: [PIGMI] [OT] Nanny state action
>
>
>ridiculous hey.
>
>it's like trying to plug a leaking dam with a pebble.
>take away someone's silver pen and they'll pick up a black crayon.
>
>j
>
>
>AndyDent wrote:
>>
>> so, is there going to be a "personal use" limit on spray cans?
>>
>> "Allo sir, you wouldn't be thinking of onselling some of those 200 
>> cans of spray paint to anyone under the age of 16, would you?"
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: pigmi-unsubscribe@...
>> For additional commands, e-mail: pigmi-help@...
>>
>>
>>
>
>--
>View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/-OT--Nanny-state-action-

tp25468464p25483835.html

>Sent from the PIGMI mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
>
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[Ellen Jurik]

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But you gotta grind with emails and letters until you level up enough for you to be able to successfully cast: "Visit Minister"

---

From: Jon Hayward <jhayward@...>
To: pigmi@...
Sent: Thursday, 17 September, 2009 11:57:38 AM
Subject: Re: [PIGMI] [OT] Nanny state action

Remember kids, a email is worth 50 people, a mailed in letter is worth 500, a visit
to the rep in question? 10,000.

Turn trolling your ministers into a game!

On Wed Sep 16 20:51 , Ellen Jurik <sunlightsylph@...> sent:

>Now there will be dual art supply and booze shops. Finally!
>It all makes sense when you think of it like that.
>
>"I'll have three bottles of Absinthe, a pallette knife, and that set of oil
paints."

>"Do you have any id?"
>"Oh, of course: here."
>"Thank you very much, Mr Van Gogh, you have a nice weekend."
>"..."
>
>From: jezza-b <jeremy.b@...>
>To: pigmi@...
>Sent: Thursday, 17 September, 2009 9:41:08 AM
>Subject: Re: [PIGMI] [OT] Nanny state action
>
>
>ridiculous hey.
>
>it's like trying to plug a leaking dam with a pebble.
>take away someone's silver pen and they'll pick up a black crayon.
>
>j
>
>
>AndyDent wrote:
>>
>> so, is there going to be a "personal use" limit on spray cans?
>>
>> "Allo sir, you wouldn't be thinking of onselling some of those 200 
>> cans of spray paint to anyone under the age of 16, would you?"
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: pigmi-unsubscribe@...
>> For additional commands, e-mail: pigmi-help@...
>>
>>
>>
>
>--
>View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/-OT--Nanny-state-action-

tp25468464p25483835.html

>Sent from the PIGMI mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
>
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[Michael Hewett]

better than doing nothing i say.

Mike.

[David Keep]

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Not quite as easy though.

---

Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 12:13:50 +0800
From: y2trooper@...
To: pigmi@...
Subject: Re: [PIGMI] [OT] Nanny state action

better than doing nothing i say.

Mike.

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[Crispin Wellington-2]

Who the hell voted these jerks in?

Crispin

On Wed, Sep 16, 2009 at 4:55 PM, Chris McCormick <chris@...> wrote:

Hey All,

Sorry to post off-topic, but I think this deserves a lot more attention inside
Perth.

<http://www.thebutchershop.com.au/mailout/95/>

Is this really what kind of a state we want to live in?

Chris.

-------------------
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[Jon Hayward]

You'll be happy to know more than half the state didn't want them.  However the Nats
were forced against their leader's will back into the coalition, which the money for
regions scheme has kinda falled through.

All because Carps called a election during the Olympics.

We have the government the state deserves :P

On Thu Sep 17 13:22 , Crispin Wellington <retrogradeorbit@...> sent:

>Who the hell voted these jerks in?
>
>Crispin
>
>On Wed, Sep 16, 2009 at 4:55 PM, Chris McCormick <chris@...> wrote:
>
>
>Hey All,
>
>
>
>Sorry to post off-topic, but I think this deserves a lot more attention inside
>
>Perth.
>
>
>
><http://www.thebutchershop.com.au/mailout/95/>
>
>
>
>Is this really what kind of a state we want to live in?
>
>
>
>Chris.
>
>
>
>-------------------
>
>http://mccormick.cx
>
>
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>To unsubscribe, e-mail: pigmi-unsubscribe@...
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[Ghazal Heidari]

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My interpretation of this rule is "SELLING" crayons and spray paints to people under 18 is banned not "USING" these stuff!
They can use them at schools or home under supervision. Maybe they think by this rule "graffiti" phenomenon will be disappeared! This rule reminds me the "Fahrenheit 451" movie!

Ghazal

> From: jhayward@...
> To: pigmi@...
> Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 13:35:24 +0800
> Subject: Re: [PIGMI] [OT] Nanny state action
>
> You'll be happy to know more than half the state didn't want them. However the Nats
> were forced against their leader's will back into the coalition, which the money for
> regions scheme has kinda falled through.
>
> All because Carps called a election during the Olympics.
>
> We have the government the state deserves :P
>
> On Thu Sep 17 13:22 , Crispin Wellington <retrogradeorbit@...> sent:
>
> >Who the hell voted these jerks in?
> >
> >Crispin
> >
> >On Wed, Sep 16, 2009 at 4:55 PM, Chris McCormick <chris@...> wrote:
> >
> >
> >Hey All,
> >
> >
> >
> >Sorry to post off-topic, but I think this deserves a lot more attention inside
> >
> >Perth.
> >
> >
> >
> ><http://www.thebutchershop.com.au/mailout/95/>
> >
> >
> >
> >Is this really what kind of a state we want to live in?
> >
> >
> >
> >Chris.
> >
> >
> >
> >-------------------
> >
> >http://mccormick.cx
> >
> >
> >
> >---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >To unsubscribe, e-mail: pigmi-unsubscribe@...
> >
> >For additional commands, e-mail: pigmi-help@...
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
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[Jon Hayward]

Then answer this, why should people who sell art supplies be prosecuted for selling
a 9 y/o a pack of crayons?  Shops shouldn't be responsible for what is done with
their goods.  And why would we need this law?  As you have pointed out, it doesn't
stop them using this gear so how would it stop people from graffiti?

It's just a waste of time and money that could be better spent elsewhere.

On Thu Sep 17 14:56 , Ghazal Heidari <ghazal_heidari@...> sent:

>
>
>
>
>
>My interpretation of this rule is "SELLING" crayons and spray paints to people
under 18 is banned not "USING" these stuff!
>They can use them at schools or home under supervision. Maybe they think by this
rule "graffiti" phenomenon will be disappeared! This rule reminds me the "Fahrenheit
451" movie!
>
>Ghazal
>
>> From: jhayward@...
>> To: pigmi@...
>> Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 13:35:24 +0800
>> Subject: Re: [PIGMI] [OT] Nanny state action
>>
>> You'll be happy to know more than half the state didn't want them.  However the
Nats
>> were forced against their leader's will back into the coalition, which the money
for

>> regions scheme has kinda falled through.
>>
>> All because Carps called a election during the Olympics.
>>
>> We have the government the state deserves :P
>>
>> On Thu Sep 17 13:22 , Crispin Wellington <retrogradeorbit@...> sent:
>>
>> >Who the hell voted these jerks in?
>> >
>> >Crispin
>> >
>> >On Wed, Sep 16, 2009 at 4:55 PM, Chris McCormick <chris@...> wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> >Hey All,
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >Sorry to post off-topic, but I think this deserves a lot more attention inside
>> >
>> >Perth.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> ><http://www.thebutchershop.com.au/mailout/95/>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >Is this really what kind of a state we want to live in?
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >Chris.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >-------------------
>> >
>> >http://mccormick.cx
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >
>> >To unsubscribe, e-mail: pigmi-unsubscribe@...
>> >
>> >For additional commands, e-mail: pigmi-help@...
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>>
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[Ellen Jurik]

Some parts of this message have been removed. Learn more about Nabble's security policy.

Like pushing for an R18+ rating for games, which means we can actually get L4D2, etc?

---

From: Jon Hayward <jhayward@...>
To: pigmi@...
Sent: Thursday, 17 September, 2009 3:07:39 PM
Subject: RE: [PIGMI] [OT] Nanny state action

Then answer this, why should people who sell art supplies be prosecuted for selling
a 9 y/o a pack of crayons?  Shops shouldn't be responsible for what is done with
their goods.  And why would we need this law?  As you have pointed out, it doesn't
stop them using this gear so how would it stop people from graffiti?

It's just a waste of time and money that could be better spent elsewhere.

On Thu Sep 17 14:56 , Ghazal Heidari <ghazal_heidari@...> sent:

>
>
>
>
>
>My interpretation of this rule is "SELLING" crayons and spray paints to people
under 18 is banned not "USING" these stuff!
>They can use them at schools or home under supervision. Maybe they think by this
rule "graffiti" phenomenon will be disappeared! This rule reminds me the "Fahrenheit
451" movie!
>
>Ghazal
>
>> From: jhayward@...
>> To: pigmi@...
>> Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 13:35:24 +0800
>> Subject: Re: [PIGMI] [OT] Nanny state action
>>
>> You'll be happy to know more than half the state didn't want them.  However the
Nats
>> were forced against their leader's will back into the coalition, which the money
for

>> regions scheme has kinda falled through.
>>
>> All because Carps called a election during the Olympics.
>>
>> We have the government the state deserves :P
>>
>> On Thu Sep 17 13:22 , Crispin Wellington <retrogradeorbit@...> sent:
>>
>> >Who the hell voted these jerks in?
>> >
>> >Crispin
>> >
>> >On Wed, Sep 16, 2009 at 4:55 PM, Chris McCormick <chris@...> wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> >Hey All,
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >Sorry to post off-topic, but I think this deserves a lot more attention inside
>> >
>> >Perth.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> ><http://www.thebutchershop.com.au/mailout/95/>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >Is this really what kind of a state we want to live in?
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >Chris.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >-------------------
>> >
>> >http://mccormick.cx
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >
>> >To unsubscribe, e-mail: pigmi-unsubscribe@...
>> >
>> >For additional commands, e-mail: pigmi-help@...
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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>>
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[Crispin Wellington-2]

I think the bill is a horrendous idea. But that being said, how on earth is this going to be policed? And how is the DPP going to find time to prosecute any cases? They are overloaded and backlogged to the hilt with real crimes as it is. And how easy is it going to be to defend a case? I'd say this law is one you can just wipe your ass with. If anything it will just be used to shut down Keith&Lottie in Northbridge, and then our ultra conservative city will have a little less art and a little less culture than the miniscule amounts it presently has, and more people will move interstate and overseas. And the boring conservative middle class will go "Good! This is the way we like it".

Perth really is a city that is vehermently against youth.

It's just disappointing that it's come to this. I'm kinda bummed I have such a great job here, cause I could really do with moving to a place that respects all people, including the young, and has some life and vibrancy to it.

Crispin

[Ghazal Heidari]

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What I said didn't mean that I agree with this rule! I just mentioned what could be the viewpoint of the legislators.
But, the idea of "shop shouldn't be responsible for what is done with their goods" is not a strong reasoning for this case. This idea is generally true but can have some exceptions. For examples, you can't find any shops to sell knives to kids to be used for peeling off the fruit skin because they may do dangerous things with them.

I think this rule is a superficial solution to a social problem which can't be effective. Maybe one of the ways to confront this problem is turning the ugly face of graffiti to a beautiful "wall art". In this way not only young people who loves drawing on the street walls can be satisfied but also the city atmosphere can be turned to an artistic and colorful place.

Ghazal

> From: jhayward@...
> To: pigmi@...
> Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 15:07:39 +0800
> Subject: RE: [PIGMI] [OT] Nanny state action
>
> Then answer this, why should people who sell art supplies be prosecuted for selling
> a 9 y/o a pack of crayons? Shops shouldn't be responsible for what is done with
> their goods. And why would we need this law? As you have pointed out, it doesn't
> stop them using this gear so how would it stop people from graffiti?
>
> It's just a waste of time and money that could be better spent elsewhere.
>
> On Thu Sep 17 14:56 , Ghazal Heidari <ghazal_heidari@...> sent:
>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >My interpretation of this rule is "SELLING" crayons and spray paints to people
> under 18 is banned not "USING" these stuff!
> >They can use them at schools or home under supervision. Maybe they think by this
> rule "graffiti" phenomenon will be disappeared! This rule reminds me the "Fahrenheit
> 451" movie!
> >
> >Ghazal
> >
> >> From: jhayward@...
> >> To: pigmi@...
> >> Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 13:35:24 +0800
> >> Subject: Re: [PIGMI] [OT] Nanny state action
> >>
> >> You'll be happy to know more than half the state didn't want them. However the
> Nats
> >> were forced against their leader's will back into the coalition, which the money
> for
> >> regions scheme has kinda falled through.
> >>
> >> All because Carps called a election during the Olympics.
> >>
> >> We have the government the state deserves :P
> >>
> >> On Thu Sep 17 13:22 , Crispin Wellington <retrogradeorbit@...> sent:
> >>
> >> >Who the hell voted these jerks in?
> >> >
> >> >Crispin
> >> >
> >> >On Wed, Sep 16, 2009 at 4:55 PM, Chris McCormick <chris@...> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >Hey All,
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >Sorry to post off-topic, but I think this deserves a lot more attention inside
> >> >
> >> >Perth.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> ><http://www.thebutchershop.com.au/mailout/95/>
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >Is this really what kind of a state we want to live in?
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >Chris.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >-------------------
> >> >
> >> >http://mccormick.cx
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> >
> >> >To unsubscribe, e-mail: pigmi-unsubscribe@...
> >> >
> >> >For additional commands, e-mail: pigmi-help@...
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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> >>
> > Let us help with car news, reviews and
> more Looking for a new car this winter?
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[Avril Cox]

Wow, this sure has the list worked up! Let's get some game design debate this exciting going!! ;)

Firstly, this seems a bit blown out of proportion. Crayons won't be illegal to sell to 5yo's according to the bill - they must have a tip over 6mm wide AND be water insoluble, or be a spray can.

Secondly, there has been a voluntary code of conduct for shop owners regarding these very points for many years (so I am told).

Thirdly, it is only the sale of them as Ghazal states. There's nothing to stop parents buying them for their kids, to my knowledge. And nothing making it illegal to use them on your legal art projects.

I was discussing this with an ex-graffiti artist yesterday who scoffed at the idea. Kids will get their hands on them anyway, and still graffiti. I suggested perhaps offering more legal graffiti walls would be a better alternative (treat the problem, not the symptoms), and as he said - these exist in Perth already, some people use them, but the surrounding areas are covered with graffiti as well. It comes down to two groups of people, those who graffiti for art, and those that do it for the thrill/"fame". This bill impacts both groups, but not in any huge way more than it does right now, to my knowledge.

Cheers,

Avril.

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Reveries virtual world

www.reveri.es  

On 17/09/2009, at 2:56 PM, Ghazal Heidari <ghazal_heidari@...> wrote:

My interpretation of this rule is "SELLING" crayons and spray paints to people under 18 is banned not "USING" these stuff!
They can use them at schools or home under supervision. Maybe they think by this rule "graffiti" phenomenon will be disappeared! This rule reminds me the "Fahrenheit 451" movie!

Ghazal

> From: jhayward@...
> To: pigmi@...
> Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 13:35:24 +0800
> Subject: Re: [PIGMI] [OT] Nanny state action
>
> You'll be happy to know more than half the state didn't want them. However the Nats
> were forced against their leader's will back into the coalition, which the money for
> regions scheme has kinda falled through.
>
> All because Carps called a election during the Olympics.
>
> We have the government the state deserves :P
>
> On Thu Sep 17 13:22 , Crispin Wellington <retrogradeorbit@...> sent:
>
> >Who the hell voted these jerks in?
> >
> >Crispin
> >
> >On Wed, Sep 16, 2009 at 4:55 PM, Chris McCormick <chris@...> wrote:
> >
> >
> >Hey All,
> >
> >
> >
> >Sorry to post off-topic, but I think this deserves a lot more attention inside
> >
> >Perth.
> >
> >
> >
> ><http://www.thebutchershop.com.au/mailout/95/>
> >
> >
> >
> >Is this really what kind of a state we want to live in?
> >
> >
> >
> >Chris.
> >
> >
> >
> >-------------------
> >
> >http://mccormick.cx
> >
> >
> >
> >---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
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> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
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Let us help with car news, reviews and more Looking for a new car this winter?

[Chris McCormick]

On Thu, Sep 17, 2009 at 04:23:13PM +0800, Ghazal Heidari wrote:
> I think this rule is a superficial solution to a social problem which can't
> be effective. Maybe one of the ways to confront this problem is turning the
> ugly face of graffiti to a beautiful "wall art".

And completely destroy everything about Graffiti that is good. It's the only
true non-institutional visual art form left (except for possibly video games,
although that's changing fast). Why should the state tell me what is and isn't
art? Why do I have to live in a society where my visual space is constantly
polluted by horrible advertising coercing me to buy planet-destroying products
and yet when a real artist comes along they won't let me look at their art?
It's complete bullshit.

Implicit in all of this is the idea that Graffiti is "a social problem". Total
nonsense. In 200 years time people will look back at people like Banksy as the
Van Gough of our day. So now yr thinking "but what about all those kids making
those horrible scrawling tags, scratching bus windows?" Sorry folks, you can't
have amazing street art without having tags. That's how kids learn to make
amazing pieces. It has to be on the street, and it has to be done quickly, and
it has to be done under pressure.

I've actually come round to liking this bill. I really hope it goes through. It
will result in the possession of a spray can becoming the coolest thing a 17
year old kid could possibly do. If you want to be popular amongst your peers
you will sneak spray cans around everywhere. This in turn will result in a
massive explosion of new kids bombing the streets and some of them will become
really good, and I will get to see wonderful and interesting street art every
day as I drive through the city, instead of staring at billboards by dead media
companies I don't care about.

So I applaud this farsighted maneuver by our politicians to bring more real art
to the city. Well played neocons, well played! I knew you would recover from
completely destroying the world economy and do something good for a change.

Chris.

-------------------
http://mccormick.cx

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