[OT] Remote control powerboard

[Alex Satrapa-5]

Some time back, Bob Edwards commented that he'd found the remote  
control powerboards drew about 17W on their own, but that this was  
easily modifiable to reduce the standby current drain to about 3W.

For the life of me I can't find the post.  What I really want is the  
information that Bob didn't disclose, but for the moment just humour  
me: where did I go wrong with these Google searches?

  - remote control powerboard bob edwards
  - standby remote control +site:lists.samba.org
  - remote board 17W +site:lists.samba.org

Can someone come up with a link to the post in question? We were  
discussing turning off computers at the wall due to the high standby  
current draw of some devices.  I can't even remember how long ago it  
actually was.

And finally, if Bob is reading this, are you at liberty to discuss the  
modification that reduces the current draw of the powerboard?  I'm  
getting weary of fighting through the dust puppies to get to the wall  
sockets under my computer desk :)

Alex

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[jm-13]

Try the message with

Subject: Re: [clug] Re CO2 footprint of Searches: Storm in A Tea Cup or
Deep Green Issue?
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 09:29:28 +1000
From: Robert Edwards <bob@...>


Jeff.

Alex Satrapa wrote:
>
> Can someone come up with a link to the post in question? We were
> discussing turning off computers at the wall due to the high standby
> current draw of some devices.  I can't even remember how long ago it
> actually was.
>
>
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[Alex Satrapa-5]

On 02/11/2009, at 12:49 , jm wrote:

> Subject: Re: [clug] Re CO2 footprint of Searches: Storm in A Tea Cup  
> or Deep Green Issue?
> Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 09:29:28 +1000
> From: Robert Edwards <bob@...>

Interesting.

"bob edwards remote control powerboard 17W" gets that post as the  
first hit.

"bob edwards remote control powerboard" doesn't even come close.

Stupid Google =(

But I'm still curious as to whether the "modification" that Bob wrote  
of is something you wouldn't try at home! Perhaps I should just get  
one of the boards and have a hack at it myself.

Alex

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[steve jenkin-2]

Alex Satrapa wrote on 2/11/09 1:22 PM:

> But I'm still curious as to whether the "modification" that Bob wrote of
> is something you wouldn't try at home! Perhaps I should just get one of
> the boards and have a hack at it myself.
>
> Alex


Anyone on the list know the current law applying to 240V devices?

I gather it only legal for Licensed/Registered electricians to work on
powerpoints, wiring, etc...

And it's legal for hobbyists to build their own projects and kits -
which often includes 240V transformers.

In the workplace, 240V leads have to be regularly inspected and tagged.
(1,2,5 years?)

Where's the cross-over?

In this modern risk-adverse culture, I can't believe it's "caveat
emptor" (or builder/user beware). But then again, you can design, build,
fly and crash your own 'experimental' aircraft :-)

s


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[Mike Carden]

My understanding is that from the GPO (power outlet) back, it's all
electrician land. From the plug onwards, it's anyone's. That was the
case for the 20 or so years I spent in the electronics repair
industry.

It may have changed in the 6 years since I left though. I recall some
moves being made to license electronics technicians but I don't know
if anything came of it.

For myself, I'm happy to build or fix stuff that plugs into the mains
but I can appreciate people not wanting to. It's pretty easy to get
deaded if you don't know what you're doing and sometimes even if you
do.

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[Peter Barker-2]

On Mon, 2 Nov 2009, Alex Satrapa wrote:

> For the life of me I can't find the post.  What I really want is the
> information that Bob didn't disclose, but for the moment just humour me:
> where did I go wrong with these Google searches?
>
> - remote control powerboard bob edwards
> - standby remote control +site:lists.samba.org
> - remote board 17W +site:lists.samba.org

You forgot to quote "bob edwards" :-)

remote control powerboard "bob edwards" finds it no problems :-)

> Alex

Yours,
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[Alex Satrapa-5]

On 03/11/2009, at 18:10 , Peter Barker wrote:

> You forgot to quote "bob edwards" :-)
>
> remote control powerboard "bob edwards" finds it no problems :-)

Damn, first result in the list.  Will have to remember that trick for  
later!

Thanks :)


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[David Schoen-2]

This is sort of on topic.

I've solved basically the same problem a slightly different way.

The simplest way is just to get a standard in line switch (like you
get on the cable running to a desk lamp) and run the active wire from
somewhere before it enters a power board and back again. This provides
a very simple (and cheap) "remote", this obviously doesn't help if you
want to move the remote around.

The other more adventurous solution I wired up to one of my PCs is to
have a relay controlling the 240V active wire from a 12V+ wire in the
PC (I used a plug that fits one of the fdd power connectors that were
going unused). Using a NO (normally open) relay means there is
absolutely no power being used when the PC is off. Setting the bios to
boot after power failure and putting a NO switch as an override for
the relay results in standard one button push power up :) Even if the
power button is in a slightly strange place.


Cheers,
Dave

2009/11/4 Alex Satrapa <alexsatrapa@...>:

> On 03/11/2009, at 18:10 , Peter Barker wrote:
>
>> You forgot to quote "bob edwards" :-)
>>
>> remote control powerboard "bob edwards" finds it no problems :-)
>
> Damn, first result in the list.  Will have to remember that trick for later!
>
> Thanks :)
>
>
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[Alex Satrapa-5]

On 17/11/2009, at 08:55 , David Schoen wrote:

> The simplest way is just to get a standard in line switch (like you
> get on the cable running to a desk lamp) and run the active wire from
> somewhere before it enters a power board and back again.

That's the solution I was hoping to find, but I can't for the life of me find any extension cables that have inline switches.  There are options for DIY though[1]!

Guess I'll go for the inline switch option, since there's much less chance of losing the switch and not being able to turn off the power ;)

Alex

[1] http://www.electusdistribution.com.au/productView.asp?ID=2411&CATID=35&keywords=&SPECIAL=&form=CAT&SUBCATID=172

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[jm-13]

Alex Satrapa wrote:

> On 17/11/2009, at 08:55 , David Schoen wrote:
>
>  
>> The simplest way is just to get a standard in line switch (like you
>> get on the cable running to a desk lamp) and run the active wire from
>> somewhere before it enters a power board and back again.
>>    
>
> That's the solution I was hoping to find, but I can't for the life of me find any extension cables that have inline switches.  There are options for DIY though[1]!
>  

Try one of the electrical wholesalers around town. They may not stock
part, but they may know who would.


Jeff.
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[David Schoen-2]

I bought a switch just like the one you've linked to from one of the
Hardware stores in Belconnen. Most hardware/electrical stores (I've
even seen a couple of supermarkets stocking them) should have
something like that.

I didn't actually use my in line switch in line though.

I had somethign like (excuse ascii art):
          | Junction |
          |    box   |
Plug N ------------------- power board
     E -------------------
     A -------|  |--------
          |   |  |   |
              |  |
              |  |
             Switch

Depending on the switch you should be easily able to block one end and
run both wires out one end of the switch. I think I had to reuse the
earth or the neutral terminator in my switch to avoid cutting/removing
bits of plastic, but from the outside it looks fairly normal. It's
been working for my Mum's lounge room set up for years now.

If you want really simple, there's a Cabac PB80 [0] sitting under my
desk at work right now that I can easily turn on and off with my foot.


Cheers,
Dave

[0] http://www.dealsdirect.com.au/p/power-surge-protector-8-outlets/

2009/11/17 Alex Satrapa <alexsatrapa@...>:

> On 17/11/2009, at 08:55 , David Schoen wrote:
>
>> The simplest way is just to get a standard in line switch (like you
>> get on the cable running to a desk lamp) and run the active wire from
>> somewhere before it enters a power board and back again.
>
> That's the solution I was hoping to find, but I can't for the life of me find any extension cables that have inline switches.  There are options for DIY though[1]!
>
> Guess I'll go for the inline switch option, since there's much less chance of losing the switch and not being able to turn off the power ;)
>
> Alex
>
> [1] http://www.electusdistribution.com.au/productView.asp?ID=2411&CATID=35&keywords=&SPECIAL=&form=CAT&SUBCATID=172
>
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There are commercial products.

In mid October, Aldi had on special "Digital Home System" product with 4
remote controlled powerboards and a simple remote. Each of those boards
consume less than 1 Watt and come with a build-in on-/off-switch.

If someone is interested, I can bring an example to our next meeting.

Cheers,

Rainer

On Wed, 18 Nov 2009, David Schoen wrote:

> I bought a switch just like the one you've linked to from one of the
> Hardware stores in Belconnen. Most hardware/electrical stores (I've
> even seen a couple of supermarkets stocking them) should have
> something like that.
>
> I didn't actually use my in line switch in line though.
>
> I had somethign like (excuse ascii art):
>           | Junction |
>           |    box   |
>
> Plug N ------------------- power board
>      E -------------------
>      A -------|  |--------
>
>
>
>              Switch
>
> Depending on the switch you should be easily able to block one end and
> run both wires out one end of the switch. I think I had to reuse the
> earth or the neutral terminator in my switch to avoid cutting/removing
> bits of plastic, but from the outside it looks fairly normal. It's
> been working for my Mum's lounge room set up for years now.
>
> If you want really simple, there's a Cabac PB80 [0] sitting under my
> desk at work right now that I can easily turn on and off with my foot.
>
>
> Cheers,
> Dave
>
> [0] http://www.dealsdirect.com.au/p/power-surge-protector-8-outlets/
>
> 2009/11/17 Alex Satrapa <alexsatrapa@...>:
> > On 17/11/2009, at 08:55 , David Schoen wrote:
> >> The simplest way is just to get a standard in line switch (like you
> >> get on the cable running to a desk lamp) and run the active wire from
> >> somewhere before it enters a power board and back again.
> >
> > That's the solution I was hoping to find, but I can't for the life of me
> > find any extension cables that have inline switches.  There are options
> > for DIY though[1]!
> >
> > Guess I'll go for the inline switch option, since there's much less
> > chance of losing the switch and not being able to turn off the power ;)
> >
> > Alex
> >
> > [1]
> > http://www.electusdistribution.com.au/productView.asp?ID=2411&CATID=35&ke
> >ywords=&SPECIAL=&form=CAT&SUBCATID=172
> >
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[Kevin Pulo]

On Tue, Nov 24, 2009 at 12:17:19PM +1100, Rainer Klein wrote:

> There are commercial products.
>
> In mid October, Aldi had on special "Digital Home System" product with 4
> remote controlled powerboards and a simple remote. Each of those boards
> consume less than 1 Watt and come with a build-in on-/off-switch.

Do you know if there are any where the "simple remote" includes
software monitoring and control, eg. usb/serial/whatever...?

Kev.

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On Tue, 24 Nov 2009, Kevin Pulo wrote:

> On Tue, Nov 24, 2009 at 12:17:19PM +1100, Rainer Klein wrote:
> > There are commercial products.
> >
> > In mid October, Aldi had on special "Digital Home System" product with 4
> > remote controlled powerboards and a simple remote. Each of those boards
> > consume less than 1 Watt and come with a build-in on-/off-switch.
>
> Do you know if there are any where the "simple remote" includes
> software monitoring and control, eg. usb/serial/whatever...?
>
> Kev.

The remote control is based on RF and comes with 4 buttons. It can be easily
attached to a key chain.

If you want to control it from your computer, you might want to use Jonathan
Oxer's idea and use an Arduino board.

-rkl
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[Alastair D'Silva-3]

FYI, Bunnings has some devices on clearance that may be of interest.

There is a 4 way power board with a big foot switch on it for $14.95 (none
left at Tuggernanong, I cleared them all out), which I am using to switch my
peripherals off. I may hack them into a USB switched unit later. If there is
none left, there is a similar function workshop style (big and yellow, with
red spring loaded dust caps) unit for $19.95.

Also, there is a 3 pack of RF controlled plug-through switches for $29.95.

Cheers,

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[Alex Satrapa-2]

On 24/11/2009, at 12:17 , Rainer Klein wrote:

> There are commercial products.

I ended up picking up a Belkin "Conserve" remote control powerboard that was going cheap. This one even comes with a $250k warranty covering surge damage to products directly connected to the power board.

For my computer desk, I'll probably splurge on a foot-switch powerboard if Bunnings or similar have some left, just to save me reaching all the way under the desk (keyboard trays and my head have a long history of conflict). Though I'm tempted to simply run an extension cord from the computer desk around the room to the spare socket on the Conserve.

It'll pay for itself in about 10 years*. LOL.

Alex

* assuming $10/yr of standby current charged at $0.12/kWh

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[Angus Gratton-3]

On Tue, Nov 24, 2009 at 10:34 PM, Rainer Klein <rklein@...> wrote:
> The remote control is based on RF and comes with 4 buttons. It can be easily
> attached to a key chain.
>
> If you want to control it from your computer, you might want to use Jonathan
> Oxer's idea and use an Arduino board.

In fact, there's already an Arduino library for many of the common RF
remote-control switches.

I recently built a project using a single remote control power point.
The Arduino is wired to a 433Mhz ASK transmitter from Jaycar. Very
similar to a PIC-based design that Bob had posted on the web.

Arduino library: http://www.arduino.cc/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1216065789/3

Power point: http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=360196127267

Wireless module: http://jaycar.com.au/productView.asp?ID=ZW3100


That library supports 3-4 slightly different encoding schemes, so
there's a good chance it will work with the power board as well.
Getting the power point working was really simple. I was a tiny bit
disappointed that I didn't have to do any coding from scratch. ;)

Hth,

Angus
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[Robert Edwards-3]

Angus Gratton wrote:

> On Tue, Nov 24, 2009 at 10:34 PM, Rainer Klein <rklein@...> wrote:
>> The remote control is based on RF and comes with 4 buttons. It can be easily
>> attached to a key chain.
>>
>> If you want to control it from your computer, you might want to use Jonathan
>> Oxer's idea and use an Arduino board.
>
> In fact, there's already an Arduino library for many of the common RF
> remote-control switches.
>
> I recently built a project using a single remote control power point.
> The Arduino is wired to a 433Mhz ASK transmitter from Jaycar. Very
> similar to a PIC-based design that Bob had posted on the web.
>
> Arduino library: http://www.arduino.cc/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1216065789/3
>
> Power point: http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=360196127267
>
> Wireless module: http://jaycar.com.au/productView.asp?ID=ZW3100
>
>
> That library supports 3-4 slightly different encoding schemes, so
> there's a good chance it will work with the power board as well.
> Getting the power point working was really simple. I was a tiny bit
> disappointed that I didn't have to do any coding from scratch. ;)
>
> Hth,
>
> Angus

I haven't yet tried to determine if the R/C in the 4-way remote power
board is using a one-time sequence or not. If so, it is much harder to
program your Arduino to come up with the same sequences, and using Jon
Oxer's approach with relays etc. would need to be done. Note that Jon's
approach requires a battery for the original remote, unless a power
supply is substituted. The relays are only one for short periods (the
time of a typical button press), so not too much power consumption
there.

Note that the actual power board itself, like most small 240VAC devices,
uses a capacitor/reactance voltage divider power supply, which is cheap,
relatively small and can be relatively efficient. These power supplies
typically have a large yellow "X2" rated 275VAC capacitor acting as an
impedance device, but with very low real losses. These work really
well for devices with a small constant well-known load (like a little
microcontroller, a radio receiver etc.), but not so well for variable
loads (like what happens when a power control relay switches on).

In the case of Angus's single remote control power point, there is only
one such relay and the associated losses for when the relay if off is
not too great.

In the case of my 4-way board, the power supply needs to be able to
supply enough current at sufficient voltage to turn all four relays
on together. In order to do this, they had to design for a much higher
"no-load" voltage and throw away the excess power (as heat). Mine had
a 1uFd cap and was running at 23V with no-load and getting quite hot.
I eventually replaced this with two 0.33uFd caps in parallel (to give
0.66uFd) which reduced the no-load voltage to 17V, but still gave
enough to switch the 4th relay (at which stage the P/S voltage had
dropped to little under 9V). The resulting power consumption of the
power board dropped from about 17W to about 2W on standby, and 4W with
all the relays on.

Cheers,

Bob Edwards.
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