[PIC] 16F875
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[PIC] 16F875
by Dave King-7
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Just noticed that the 875 has a built in op amp as well as a/d.
Has anyone played with this one? I'm curious how well the op amp works with the a/d and so on. Could make for a slightly smaller board or fewer parts. Dave -- http://www.piclist.com PIC/SX FAQ & list archive View/change your membership options at http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist |
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RE: [PIC] 16F875
by Howard Winter
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On Mon, 15 Aug 2005 12:15:43 +0800, Chen Xiao Fan wrote:
> The 8/14/20 pin PIC will be supported by PICkit 2. Yes I noticed that - it won't support 18 pin PICs! Cheers, Howard Winter St.Albans, England -- http://www.piclist.com PIC/SX FAQ & list archive View/change your membership options at http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist |
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RE: [PIC] 16F875
by Wouter van Ooijen
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> By the way, to me the 16F 18pin parts are now legacy parts
> already since > the new 16F parts are all low cost 8/14/20/28pin standard > flash parts. :) > So please do not recommend 16F628A any more to new hobbyists. :) > Instead please recommend PIC18F or dsPICs. I do not agree completely. A big argument for newbies is the amount of webinfo for a chip. Sadly, the 16x84 still rules in this aspect. The 16F628(A) and 18F877(A) are viable alternatives. 18F info is still scarce. There are no low-price/low-pin-count 18F chips. Many hobbyists want their designs to be low-cost. This definitely points to 12/14 bit cores. Maybe an 18F could be used as learning tool (but I would not recommend this), but not a 30F. When one realy needs the power of the 30F's IMHO there are better choices, like the various ARM chips. Wouter van Ooijen -- ------------------------------------------- Van Ooijen Technische Informatica: www.voti.nl consultancy, development, PICmicro products docent Hogeschool van Utrecht: www.voti.nl/hvu -- http://www.piclist.com PIC/SX FAQ & list archive View/change your membership options at http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist |
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RE: [PIC] 16F875
by Wouter van Ooijen
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> I remember just around a month or two ago the 16F88 being
> talked about as being the hobbyist chip of choice, along with > the 16F877 as you mentioned. As far as web-presence is concerned the F88 will loose badly because it is a relatively new chip. But it is cretainly the most capable 18-pin chip. But IMHO the main reason for choosing 12/14-bit core chip is that you want be able to eventually make your project cheap. Which chip you start with is less important, so why not choos the biggest one, which is the 16F877A. If you don't want to make your project small/cheap (in the end) the 18F's look much better. Wouter van Ooijen -- ------------------------------------------- Van Ooijen Technische Informatica: www.voti.nl consultancy, development, PICmicro products docent Hogeschool van Utrecht: www.voti.nl/hvu -- http://www.piclist.com PIC/SX FAQ & list archive View/change your membership options at http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist |
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Re: [PIC] 16F875
by Byron A Jeff
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On Mon, Aug 15, 2005 at 11:48:17AM +0200, Wouter van Ooijen wrote:
> > By the way, to me the 16F 18pin parts are now legacy parts > > already since > > the new 16F parts are all low cost 8/14/20/28pin standard > > flash parts. :) > > So please do not recommend 16F628A any more to new hobbyists. :) > > Instead please recommend PIC18F or dsPICs. > > I do not agree completely. Debate! Debate! ;-) > > A big argument for newbies is the amount of webinfo for a chip. Sadly, > the 16x84 still rules in this aspect. It's very sad. > The 16F628(A) and 18F877(A) are > viable alternatives. I'd add the 16F88 into this list too. > 18F info is still scarce. Very scarce. And the dsPIC is worse. Does anyone have knowledge of a page that describes a simple blink-an-led for the dsPIC? I haven't found any assembly info on the part at all (other than the datasheet). > There are no low-price/low-pin-count 18F chips. Many hobbyists want > their designs to be low-cost. This definitely points to 12/14 bit cores. The 18F1330 and 18F1320 are 18 pin parts. They are $5.38 USD according to digikey. Still cheaper than a 16F84. Generally hobbyists are one-off type folks. A couple of dollars isn't going to make that much difference on a part. > Maybe an 18F could be used as learning tool (but I would not recommend > this), but not a 30F. I don't think there's a good 30F tutorial yet. Also personally I'm leery of being tied to Mchips 30F C compiler. > When one realy needs the power of the 30F's IMHO there are better > choices, like the various ARM chips. Do ARMs come in hobby friendly packages? The dsPIC 30F3013 is available in a 28 pin DIP package. And especially for hobby use, packaging is important. BAJ -- http://www.piclist.com PIC/SX FAQ & list archive View/change your membership options at http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist |
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Re: [PIC] 16F875
by Byron A Jeff
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On Mon, Aug 15, 2005 at 12:32:12PM +0200, Wouter van Ooijen wrote:
> > I remember just around a month or two ago the 16F88 being > > talked about as being the hobbyist chip of choice, along with > > the 16F877 as you mentioned. > > As far as web-presence is concerned the F88 will loose badly because it > is a relatively new chip. But it is cretainly the most capable 18-pin > chip. Which is why I recommend it as the 16F84/16F628 replacement. > But IMHO the main reason for choosing 12/14-bit core chip is that you > want be able to eventually make your project cheap. Which chip you start > with is less important, so why not choos the biggest one, which is the > 16F877A. That's an interesting question. I really don't believe it matters too much on the hobby front. Projects are generally done in singles. Convenience is more important than costs. But I wonder what the breakover is? 10 parts? 25? BAJ -- http://www.piclist.com PIC/SX FAQ & list archive View/change your membership options at http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist |
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RE: [PIC] 16F875
by Wouter van Ooijen
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> > But IMHO the main reason for choosing 12/14-bit core chip
> is that you > > want be able to eventually make your project cheap. Which > chip you start > > with is less important, so why not choos the biggest one, > which is the > > 16F877A. > > That's an interesting question. I really don't believe it > matters too much on the hobby front. That might be true when you do the math, but it is not the way a lot of newbies seem to see it. And you must include that a newbie will probably fry a few chips, so even a one-of project might need 10 chips. Wouter van Ooijen -- ------------------------------------------- Van Ooijen Technische Informatica: www.voti.nl consultancy, development, PICmicro products docent Hogeschool van Utrecht: www.voti.nl/hvu -- http://www.piclist.com PIC/SX FAQ & list archive View/change your membership options at http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist |
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RE: [PIC] 16F875
by Wouter van Ooijen
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> > The 16F628(A) and 18F877(A) are
> > viable alternatives. > I'd add the 16F88 into this list too. I meant viable is the sense that a reasonable amount of web coverage exists for these parts. IMHO the F88 is *not* viable in *this* aspect. The F628(A) is, but on thechnical arguments alone I would indeed prefer the F88 as newbie chip (but the 877A even more, because it has plenty of I/O pins to add a debug LCD or two :) , and this chip *does* haev some web coverage :) > The 18F1330 and 18F1320 are 18 pin parts. They are $5.38 USD > according to digikey. Still cheaper than a 16F84. Yes, but that is not releveant. The 18F's don't have the web coverage of the x84, f628 or f877, and the 18F family lacks the quivalents of the F676, F629 etc. > Generally hobbyists are one-off type folks. A couple of dollars isn't > going to make that much difference on a part. Judging from what I hear from my customers there are roughly two parts of hobbyists, typically: 1- teenagers who want more than just modding their PC 2- retired techies who want to get a bite of the uC world For category two your argument holds. Such guys typically buy a 16F877A, an 18F4520, or even a 30F. And a Wisp628 kit, build, or even an ICD2. For gategory one your argument does not seem to apply. They typically buy an F84-04, and try to get a serial-port-powered programmer to work. > Do ARMs come in hobby friendly packages? The dsPIC 30F3013 is > available in a 28 pin DIP package. And especially for hobby use, > packaging is important. No, point taken. But you can buy ARM modules with DIP pinout. Wouter van Ooijen -- ------------------------------------------- Van Ooijen Technische Informatica: www.voti.nl consultancy, development, PICmicro products docent Hogeschool van Utrecht: www.voti.nl/hvu -- http://www.piclist.com PIC/SX FAQ & list archive View/change your membership options at http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist |
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Re: [PIC] 16F875
by scott larson
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I am a noob in the PIC world, and i've been using the 16f84a, as it
definitely has the most documentation and support. however, i also have a book on the 16f876 by Chuck Hellebuyck. I occasionally get samples from microchip, my selection being influenced by the features each chip provides (op-amps, ADC, AUSART MI²C Compatible/SPI, low power, the number of i/o pins, etc.) I'm just a college student making little projects with the PIC over my summer break, i hope to get into the microcontroller field. what i would like to get more info about is the dsPIC and the rfPIC. On 8/15/05, Wouter van Ooijen <wouter@...> wrote: > > > But IMHO the main reason for choosing 12/14-bit core chip > > is that you > > > want be able to eventually make your project cheap. Which > > chip you start > > > with is less important, so why not choos the biggest one, > > which is the > > > 16F877A. > > > > That's an interesting question. I really don't believe it > > matters too much on the hobby front. > > That might be true when you do the math, but it is not the way a lot of > newbies seem to see it. And you must include that a newbie will probably > fry a few chips, so even a one-of project might need 10 chips. > > Wouter van Ooijen > > -- ------------------------------------------- > Van Ooijen Technische Informatica: www.voti.nl > consultancy, development, PICmicro products > docent Hogeschool van Utrecht: www.voti.nl/hvu > > > -- > http://www.piclist.com PIC/SX FAQ & list archive > View/change your membership options at > http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist > -- Scott Larson 3201 S. State. St. box 2561 Chicago, Il, 60616 619-400-9775 http://goldscott.com -- http://www.piclist.com PIC/SX FAQ & list archive View/change your membership options at http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist |
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Re: [PIC] 16F875
by Sean Schouten
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Excuse my ignorance, because I too am a beginner in the vast field of
microcontrollers... I was under the impression that the low and high range of Microchip's (regular) PICmicro line were in fact similar enough to start with any (regular) pic and migrate to another without too many problems other than peripheral addressing etc changing. Is that the case or am I on another planet? I bought a book on amazon.com called "Pic in Practice" by 'D.W. Smith', that obviously mainly covers the PIC16F84 (mister popular) and some other PICmicros' that have some other functions that the PIC16F84 does not share. I my self just used the book to get started with the real basics, on the 12F629 and the 16F684 that I got with the PICstart1 kit that got given to me for my birthday. No problems at all, and with a little help from the datasheet it all seemed to work out just great. So forgive me for not seeing the problem of finding the right PICmicro to start with. IMHO just need to start on something or rather anything to atleast get the basic feel and understanding. Thanks, Sean Schouten. -- http://www.piclist.com PIC/SX FAQ & list archive View/change your membership options at http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist |
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Re: [PIC] 16F875
by Byron A Jeff
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On Mon, Aug 15, 2005 at 03:50:33PM +0200, Wouter van Ooijen wrote:
> > > The 16F628(A) and 18F877(A) are > > > viable alternatives. > > I'd add the 16F88 into this list too. > > I meant viable is the sense that a reasonable amount of web coverage > exists for these parts. I see where you're coming from. > IMHO the F88 is *not* viable in *this* aspect. OTOH periperal support is similar enough that generally it transfers. So virtually everything that can be leaned with a 16F877 will work for the most part on the 16F88. > The F628(A) is, but on thechnical arguments alone I would indeed prefer > the F88 as newbie chip (but the 877A even more, because it has plenty of > I/O pins to add a debug LCD or two :) , and this chip *does* haev some > web coverage :) I have no arguments with the 877A. I think it's a great part. But for some reason hobby folks starting out seem to want a smaller package. I never figured out why. > > > The 18F1330 and 18F1320 are 18 pin parts. They are $5.38 USD > > according to digikey. Still cheaper than a 16F84. > > Yes, but that is not releveant. The 18F's don't have the web coverage of > the x84, f628 or f877, and the 18F family lacks the quivalents of the > F676, F629 etc. Very true. There are no sub-18 pin 18F parts AFAIK. > > > Generally hobbyists are one-off type folks. A couple of dollars isn't > > going to make that much difference on a part. > > Judging from what I hear from my customers there are roughly two parts > of hobbyists, typically: > 1- teenagers who want more than just modding their PC > 2- retired techies who want to get a bite of the uC world > > For category two your argument holds. Such guys typically buy a 16F877A, > an 18F4520, or even a 30F. And a Wisp628 kit, build, or even an ICD2. > > For gategory one your argument does not seem to apply. They typically > buy an F84-04, and try to get a serial-port-powered programmer to work. There's cheap. And then there's too cheap. Category one is the latter. They would get more bang for their buck with a 877A and a bootloader. > > > Do ARMs come in hobby friendly packages? The dsPIC 30F3013 is > > available in a 28 pin DIP package. And especially for hobby use, > > packaging is important. > > No, point taken. But you can buy ARM modules with DIP pinout. Cool. I may need to check that out at some point in the future. BAJ -- http://www.piclist.com PIC/SX FAQ & list archive View/change your membership options at http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist |
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Re: [PIC] 16F875
by Byron A Jeff
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On Mon, Aug 15, 2005 at 05:52:39PM +0200, Sean Schouten wrote:
> Excuse my ignorance, because I too am a beginner in the vast field of > microcontrollers... Well welcome aboard. > I was under the impression that the low and high range of Microchip's > (regular) PICmicro line were in fact similar enough to start with any > (regular) pic and migrate to another without too many problems other > than peripheral addressing etc changing. Is that the case or am I on > another planet? It does work for the most part. I think that in the 16F family you run into paging/banking issues when you ramp up. That's probably why it's better to ramp down (i.e. start with the biggest best chip and work your way down). > I bought a book on amazon.com called "Pic in Practice" by 'D.W. > Smith', that obviously mainly covers the PIC16F84 (mister popular) and > some other PICmicros' that have some other functions that the > PIC16F84 does not share. I my self just used the book to get started > with the real basics, on the 12F629 and the 16F684 that I got with the > PICstart1 kit that got given to me for my birthday. No problems at > all, and with a little help from the datasheet it all seemed to work > out just great. So forgive me for not seeing the problem of finding > the right PICmicro to start with. IMHO just need to start on something > or rather anything to atleast get the basic feel and understanding. It's a running debate on the list. It's a theory I call "You love what you learn". A web blog here: http://unplugd.com/junkyard/?q=node/1 gives an example. To quote: "If the first tool mastered is a hammer, everything looks like nails. Studies we carried out at Grant High School, Mt. Gambier, South Australia, showed that users' preference for applications to do specific tasks, is closely related to when in their education they were introduced to the applications. A concrete example: Half a photography class was subjected to Adobe Photoshop for image manipulation, the other half was using The Gimp. Halfway through the term, the students swapped 'weapons'. The study showed, that the ones who were initially using Photoshop didn't like Gimp, and the 'Gimp-borne' students thought that Photoshop was crap. With this in mind, I move that we need to consider carefully whenever we introduce new tools to students." I see the same problem with the 16F84. Start newbies with it and they'll tend to stick to it like glue. Even if this means going all around the world to solve an issue that hardware takes care of easily. BAJ -- http://www.piclist.com PIC/SX FAQ & list archive View/change your membership options at http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist |
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