#gallery-support -- keep it or not?

[Kevin Nehls]

There's been discussion of dropping the #gallery-support channel on IRC.  It's not frequented by many (if any) core members.  People go to the channel expecting support, asking a question and a lot of times not getting any response.  At least this is what has been observed.

Should we drop that channel or not?  Do you think #gallery-support is of value?  Do you think it would be better to just send people to the forums?  Which I have absolutely no problem doing myself.  Does anyone help out there on a regular basis?

One option would be to leave #gallery-support around would making it very clear support cannot be expected.  That's it's purely peer-to-peer support as the core support people don't have time to hang out on IRC giving live, 1 on 1 support.  If someone answers your request, good, if not, hit the forums and wait patiently :)

I personally don't think that's a good solution, if people come to the channel and see people sitting there, they expect someone to be listening.  I know I sure wouldn't like showing up some place, seeing 15 people "standing around", asking a question to the group and then appearing to be completely ignored.

Thanks,
Kevin

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[Bharat Mediratta]

Kevin Nehls wrote:

> There's been discussion of dropping the #gallery-support channel on
> IRC.  It's not frequented by many (if any) core members.  People go to
> the channel expecting support, asking a question and a lot of times not
> getting any response.  At least this is what has been observed.
>
> Should we drop that channel or not?  Do you think #gallery-support is of
> value?  Do you think it would be better to just send people to the
> forums?  Which I have absolutely no problem doing myself.  Does anyone
> help out there on a regular basis?
>
> One option would be to leave #gallery-support around would making it
> very clear support cannot be expected.  That's it's purely peer-to-peer
> support as the core support people don't have time to hang out on IRC
> giving live, 1 on 1 support.  If someone answers your request, good, if
> not, hit the forums and wait patiently :)
>
> I personally don't think that's a good solution, if people come to the
> channel and see people sitting there, they expect someone to be
> listening.  I know I sure wouldn't like showing up some place, seeing 15
> people "standing around", asking a question to the group and then
> appearing to be completely ignored.

I don't spend any time in #gallery-support anymore.  I wince every time
we send some hopeful user there because I'm confident that they're not
going to get the community support that we're promising.

I vote that we terminate #gallery-support now, and redirect any users
there to the forums.  I will make an effort to help users with Gallery 3
issues in #gallery, and will maybe on occasion help out Gallery 2
developers if I'm in a good mood and not too busy.

-Bharat

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[Tim Almdal]

I've never really spent any time in #gallery-support so I wouldn't miss it if it wasn't there.  So I'm fine with killing it

Kevin Nehls wrote:

There's been discussion of dropping the #gallery-support channel on IRC.  It's not frequented by many (if any) core members.  People go to the channel expecting support, asking a question and a lot of times not getting any response.  At least this is what has been observed.

Should we drop that channel or not?  Do you think #gallery-support is of value?  Do you think it would be better to just send people to the forums?  Which I have absolutely no problem doing myself.  Does anyone help out there on a regular basis?

One option would be to leave #gallery-support around would making it very clear support cannot be expected.  That's it's purely peer-to-peer support as the core support people don't have time to hang out on IRC giving live, 1 on 1 support.  If someone answers your request, good, if not, hit the forums and wait patiently :)

I personally don't think that's a good solution, if people come to the channel and see people sitting there, they expect someone to be listening.  I know I sure wouldn't like showing up some place, seeing 15 people "standing around", asking a question to the group and then appearing to be completely ignored.

Thanks,
Kevin

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[floridave]

+1 for dropping it.
There is a lot of lurkers' in the channel but very few actually
respond.  I think this makes the new guy to the channel left in a
full room with nobody to talk to.
Kevin and I discussed this in Santa Fe, and we both had the some opinion:
With live one-on-one support, you feel obligated to continue to
assist.   You feel uncomfortable saying to the guy you 'have to go'
even if you are most of the way fixing the issue.
In the forums you can step away and don't feel the pressure to help
out, that is the great thing about this project...You can come and go
as you please with little pressure.

If #gallery is quiet, with little dev work going on, then I don't
mind answering some questions in that channel.

Dave

At 05:58 PM 9/10/2009, Tim Almdal wrote:

>I've never really spent any time in #gallery-support so I wouldn't
>miss it if it wasn't there.  So I'm fine with killing it
>
>Kevin Nehls wrote:
>>There's been discussion of dropping the #gallery-support channel on
>>IRC.  It's not frequented by many (if any) core members.  People go
>>to the channel expecting support, asking a question and a lot of
>>times not getting any response.  At least this is what has been observed.
>>
>>Should we drop that channel or not?  Do you think #gallery-support
>>is of value?  Do you think it would be better to just send people
>>to the forums?  Which I have absolutely no problem doing
>>myself.  Does anyone help out there on a regular basis?
>>
>>One option would be to leave #gallery-support around would making
>>it very clear support cannot be expected.  That's it's purely
>>peer-to-peer support as the core support people don't have time to
>>hang out on IRC giving live, 1 on 1 support.  If someone answers
>>your request, good, if not, hit the forums and wait patiently :)
>>
>>I personally don't think that's a good solution, if people come to
>>the channel and see people sitting there, they expect someone to be
>>listening.  I know I sure wouldn't like showing up some place,
>>seeing 15 people "standing around", asking a question to the group
>>and then appearing to be completely ignored.
>>
>>Thanks,
>>Kevin
>>
>>
>>

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[Bharat Mediratta]

If you're in *favor* of keeping #gallery-support, please speak up now.
Else over the weekend sometime I'll start the process of shutting it
down, which will entail:

1) changing the topic for #gallery directing user support to the forums,
or at least asking people to be civil about bugging developers

2) changing the topic for #gallery-support directing people to go to
#gallery / forums.

3) (possibly) moderating #gallery-support to draw attention to the fact
that it's getting shut down.

Dave Moore wrote:

> +1 for dropping it.
> There is a lot of lurkers' in the channel but very few actually
> respond.  I think this makes the new guy to the channel left in a
> full room with nobody to talk to.
> Kevin and I discussed this in Santa Fe, and we both had the some opinion:
> With live one-on-one support, you feel obligated to continue to
> assist.   You feel uncomfortable saying to the guy you 'have to go'
> even if you are most of the way fixing the issue.
> In the forums you can step away and don't feel the pressure to help
> out, that is the great thing about this project...You can come and go
> as you please with little pressure.
>
> If #gallery is quiet, with little dev work going on, then I don't
> mind answering some questions in that channel.
>
> Dave
>
> At 05:58 PM 9/10/2009, Tim Almdal wrote:
>> I've never really spent any time in #gallery-support so I wouldn't
>> miss it if it wasn't there.  So I'm fine with killing it
>>
>> Kevin Nehls wrote:
>>> There's been discussion of dropping the #gallery-support channel on
>>> IRC.  It's not frequented by many (if any) core members.  People go
>>> to the channel expecting support, asking a question and a lot of
>>> times not getting any response.  At least this is what has been observed.
>>>
>>> Should we drop that channel or not?  Do you think #gallery-support
>>> is of value?  Do you think it would be better to just send people
>>> to the forums?  Which I have absolutely no problem doing
>>> myself.  Does anyone help out there on a regular basis?
>>>
>>> One option would be to leave #gallery-support around would making
>>> it very clear support cannot be expected.  That's it's purely
>>> peer-to-peer support as the core support people don't have time to
>>> hang out on IRC giving live, 1 on 1 support.  If someone answers
>>> your request, good, if not, hit the forums and wait patiently :)
>>>
>>> I personally don't think that's a good solution, if people come to
>>> the channel and see people sitting there, they expect someone to be
>>> listening.  I know I sure wouldn't like showing up some place,
>>> seeing 15 people "standing around", asking a question to the group
>>> and then appearing to be completely ignored.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Kevin
>>>
>>>
>>>
>
>
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[Bharat Mediratta]

Closure: this transition is complete:

1) The #gallery-support topic now contains a pointer to #gallery

2) The #gallery topic has been updated to reflect the fact that it's NOW
OK for users to ask questions in the channel.

3) I've modified gallery-bot to stop hanging out in #gallery-support
which requires an svn up and restart (thanks h0bbel!)

4) I've modified http://codex.gallery2.org/IRC_Support to point users at
#gallery

Let's get some chatter going again in #gallery !

-Bharat


Bharat Mediratta wrote:

> If you're in *favor* of keeping #gallery-support, please speak up now.
> Else over the weekend sometime I'll start the process of shutting it
> down, which will entail:
>
> 1) changing the topic for #gallery directing user support to the forums,
> or at least asking people to be civil about bugging developers
>
> 2) changing the topic for #gallery-support directing people to go to
> #gallery / forums.
>
> 3) (possibly) moderating #gallery-support to draw attention to the fact
> that it's getting shut down.
>
> Dave Moore wrote:
>> +1 for dropping it.
>> There is a lot of lurkers' in the channel but very few actually
>> respond.  I think this makes the new guy to the channel left in a
>> full room with nobody to talk to.
>> Kevin and I discussed this in Santa Fe, and we both had the some opinion:
>> With live one-on-one support, you feel obligated to continue to
>> assist.   You feel uncomfortable saying to the guy you 'have to go'
>> even if you are most of the way fixing the issue.
>> In the forums you can step away and don't feel the pressure to help
>> out, that is the great thing about this project...You can come and go
>> as you please with little pressure.
>>
>> If #gallery is quiet, with little dev work going on, then I don't
>> mind answering some questions in that channel.
>>
>> Dave
>>
>> At 05:58 PM 9/10/2009, Tim Almdal wrote:
>>> I've never really spent any time in #gallery-support so I wouldn't
>>> miss it if it wasn't there.  So I'm fine with killing it
>>>
>>> Kevin Nehls wrote:
>>>> There's been discussion of dropping the #gallery-support channel on
>>>> IRC.  It's not frequented by many (if any) core members.  People go
>>>> to the channel expecting support, asking a question and a lot of
>>>> times not getting any response.  At least this is what has been observed.
>>>>
>>>> Should we drop that channel or not?  Do you think #gallery-support
>>>> is of value?  Do you think it would be better to just send people
>>>> to the forums?  Which I have absolutely no problem doing
>>>> myself.  Does anyone help out there on a regular basis?
>>>>
>>>> One option would be to leave #gallery-support around would making
>>>> it very clear support cannot be expected.  That's it's purely
>>>> peer-to-peer support as the core support people don't have time to
>>>> hang out on IRC giving live, 1 on 1 support.  If someone answers
>>>> your request, good, if not, hit the forums and wait patiently :)
>>>>
>>>> I personally don't think that's a good solution, if people come to
>>>> the channel and see people sitting there, they expect someone to be
>>>> listening.  I know I sure wouldn't like showing up some place,
>>>> seeing 15 people "standing around", asking a question to the group
>>>> and then appearing to be completely ignored.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Kevin
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>
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>> what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with
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>>
>
>
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[R.Nagy József]

5, I'm just gonna edit script conf at http://support.gallery2.hu/ to  
point to #gallery instead as well (as is hardcoded).

- Joe

Idézet (Bharat Mediratta <bharat@...>):

>
> Closure: this transition is complete:
>
> 1) The #gallery-support topic now contains a pointer to #gallery
>
> 2) The #gallery topic has been updated to reflect the fact that it's NOW
> OK for users to ask questions in the channel.
>
> 3) I've modified gallery-bot to stop hanging out in #gallery-support
> which requires an svn up and restart (thanks h0bbel!)
>
> 4) I've modified http://codex.gallery2.org/IRC_Support to point users at
> #gallery
>
> Let's get some chatter going again in #gallery !
>
> -Bharat
>
>
> Bharat Mediratta wrote:
>> If you're in *favor* of keeping #gallery-support, please speak up now.
>> Else over the weekend sometime I'll start the process of shutting it
>> down, which will entail:
>>
>> 1) changing the topic for #gallery directing user support to the forums,
>> or at least asking people to be civil about bugging developers
>>
>> 2) changing the topic for #gallery-support directing people to go to
>> #gallery / forums.
>>
>> 3) (possibly) moderating #gallery-support to draw attention to the fact
>> that it's getting shut down.
>>
>> Dave Moore wrote:
>>> +1 for dropping it.
>>> There is a lot of lurkers' in the channel but very few actually
>>> respond.  I think this makes the new guy to the channel left in a
>>> full room with nobody to talk to.
>>> Kevin and I discussed this in Santa Fe, and we both had the some opinion:
>>> With live one-on-one support, you feel obligated to continue to
>>> assist.   You feel uncomfortable saying to the guy you 'have to go'
>>> even if you are most of the way fixing the issue.
>>> In the forums you can step away and don't feel the pressure to help
>>> out, that is the great thing about this project...You can come and go
>>> as you please with little pressure.
>>>
>>> If #gallery is quiet, with little dev work going on, then I don't
>>> mind answering some questions in that channel.
>>>
>>> Dave
>>>
>>> At 05:58 PM 9/10/2009, Tim Almdal wrote:
>>>> I've never really spent any time in #gallery-support so I wouldn't
>>>> miss it if it wasn't there.  So I'm fine with killing it
>>>>
>>>> Kevin Nehls wrote:
>>>>> There's been discussion of dropping the #gallery-support channel on
>>>>> IRC.  It's not frequented by many (if any) core members.  People go
>>>>> to the channel expecting support, asking a question and a lot of
>>>>> times not getting any response.  At least this is what has been observed.
>>>>>
>>>>> Should we drop that channel or not?  Do you think #gallery-support
>>>>> is of value?  Do you think it would be better to just send people
>>>>> to the forums?  Which I have absolutely no problem doing
>>>>> myself.  Does anyone help out there on a regular basis?
>>>>>
>>>>> One option would be to leave #gallery-support around would making
>>>>> it very clear support cannot be expected.  That's it's purely
>>>>> peer-to-peer support as the core support people don't have time to
>>>>> hang out on IRC giving live, 1 on 1 support.  If someone answers
>>>>> your request, good, if not, hit the forums and wait patiently :)
>>>>>
>>>>> I personally don't think that's a good solution, if people come to
>>>>> the channel and see people sitting there, they expect someone to be
>>>>> listening.  I know I sure wouldn't like showing up some place,
>>>>> seeing 15 people "standing around", asking a question to the group
>>>>> and then appearing to be completely ignored.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>> Kevin
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal Reports 2008 30-Day
>>> trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment -  
>>> and focus on
>>> what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with
>>> Crystal Reports now.  http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july
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>>>
>>
>>
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>>
>
>
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[Bharat Mediratta]

R.Nagy József wrote:
> 5, I'm just gonna edit script conf at http://support.gallery2.hu/ to  
> point to #gallery instead as well (as is hardcoded).

Awesome, thanks Joe!

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[John Britton]

I'm a bit late to this thread, but I do think that IRC is valuable for support. I'm agree with the change to close #gallery-support and point users to #gallery. Sometimes live chat is what it takes, it's especially helpful for getting people engaged with the community.

Cheers,

John
--
contact info:
http://www.johndbritton.com

2009/9/12 Bharat Mediratta <bharat@...>

R.Nagy József wrote:
> 5, I'm just gonna edit script conf at http://support.gallery2.hu/ to
> point to #gallery instead as well (as is hardcoded).

Awesome, thanks Joe!

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