[mb-bugs] [MusicBrainz Bug Tracker] #5252: Remove auto pick release country feature

[MusicBrainz Bug Tracker]

#5252: Remove auto pick release country feature
--------------------------------+-------------------------------------------
 Reporter:  Prodoc              |       Owner:                                    
     Type:  bug                 |      Status:  new                              
 Priority:  important           |   Milestone:                                    
Component:  MusicBrainz Server  |     Version:  Server 2009-05-24                
 Keywords:                      |     Browser:  Netscape, Firefox, Mozilla (Gecko)
       Os:  Linux               |  
--------------------------------+-------------------------------------------
 Please remove the auto pick release country feature from preference and
 all. After it was allowed to add a release event without dates, this
 feature is resulting in more and more invallid data by accident. When
 adding or altering a release, the country is selected automatically.
 People don't notice this. I see more and more releases being added with
 invallid release countries due to this issue.

 This feature doesn't add that much value to the system anyway. Forcing
 people to always specifically select a country when they want to add a
 release event also makes people think baout the choice a bit more.

--
Ticket URL: <http://bugs.musicbrainz.org/ticket/5252>
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#5252: Remove auto pick release country feature
-------------------------------------------------+--------------------------
  Reporter:  Prodoc                              |       Owner:                  
      Type:  bug                                 |      Status:  new              
  Priority:  important                           |   Milestone:                  
 Component:  MusicBrainz Server                  |     Version:  Server 2009-05-24
Resolution:                                      |    Keywords:                  
   Browser:  Netscape, Firefox, Mozilla (Gecko)  |          Os:  Linux            
-------------------------------------------------+--------------------------
Comment (by Prodoc):

 @rob: And it's one option less in your preferences reductin quest ;-)

--
Ticket URL: <http://bugs.musicbrainz.org/ticket/5252#comment:1>
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#5252: Remove auto pick release country feature
-------------------------------------------------+--------------------------
  Reporter:  Prodoc                              |       Owner:                  
      Type:  bug                                 |      Status:  new              
  Priority:  important                           |   Milestone:                  
 Component:  MusicBrainz Server                  |     Version:  Server 2009-05-24
Resolution:                                      |    Keywords:                  
   Browser:  Netscape, Firefox, Mozilla (Gecko)  |          Os:  Linux            
-------------------------------------------------+--------------------------
Comment (by murdos):

 I disagree with this request.

 I'd much rather disallow adding a release event which only contains the
 country field (either only when it's your default one, or any country), as
 discussed in #5175, than remove a very useful feature.

--
Ticket URL: <http://bugs.musicbrainz.org/ticket/5252#comment:2>
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#5252: Remove auto pick release country feature
-------------------------------------------------+--------------------------
  Reporter:  Prodoc                              |       Owner:                  
      Type:  bug                                 |      Status:  new              
  Priority:  important                           |   Milestone:                  
 Component:  MusicBrainz Server                  |     Version:  Server 2009-05-24
Resolution:                                      |    Keywords:                  
   Browser:  Netscape, Firefox, Mozilla (Gecko)  |          Os:  Linux            
-------------------------------------------------+--------------------------
Comment (by BrianFreud):

 I'd agree with murdos.  A RE with *only* a country is pretty worthless; it
 seems better to keep the functionality, and just ignore added REs (esp
 during add release) where there is only a country comprising the RE.

--
Ticket URL: <http://bugs.musicbrainz.org/ticket/5252#comment:3>
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#5252: Remove auto pick release country feature
-------------------------------------------------+--------------------------
  Reporter:  Prodoc                              |       Owner:                  
      Type:  bug                                 |      Status:  new              
  Priority:  important                           |   Milestone:                  
 Component:  MusicBrainz Server                  |     Version:  Server 2009-05-24
Resolution:                                      |    Keywords:                  
   Browser:  Netscape, Firefox, Mozilla (Gecko)  |          Os:  Linux            
-------------------------------------------------+--------------------------
Comment (by Prodoc):

 @murdos: in what way is it very useful in your opinion?

 I never quite liked this option. It assumes that basically all releases
 bought are releases from the country you once set it to. Forcing to make a
 choice functions like a double check and given people a moment to think
 about their choice.

--
Ticket URL: <http://bugs.musicbrainz.org/ticket/5252#comment:4>
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#5252: Remove auto pick release country feature
-------------------------------------------------+--------------------------
  Reporter:  Prodoc                              |       Owner:                  
      Type:  bug                                 |      Status:  new              
  Priority:  important                           |   Milestone:                  
 Component:  MusicBrainz Server                  |     Version:  Server 2009-05-24
Resolution:                                      |    Keywords:                  
   Browser:  Netscape, Firefox, Mozilla (Gecko)  |          Os:  Linux            
-------------------------------------------------+--------------------------
Comment (by zout):

 brianfreud: what about http://musicbrainz.org/release/ffe17431-4923-407d-
 9e4d-b91b7145a91d.html then?

--
Ticket URL: <http://bugs.musicbrainz.org/ticket/5252#comment:5>
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#5252: Remove auto pick release country feature
-------------------------------------------------+--------------------------
  Reporter:  Prodoc                              |       Owner:                  
      Type:  bug                                 |      Status:  new              
  Priority:  important                           |   Milestone:                  
 Component:  MusicBrainz Server                  |     Version:  Server 2009-05-24
Resolution:                                      |    Keywords:                  
   Browser:  Netscape, Firefox, Mozilla (Gecko)  |          Os:  Linux            
-------------------------------------------------+--------------------------
Comment (by murdos):

 Replying to [comment:4 Prodoc]:
 > @murdos: in what way is it very useful in your opinion?
 Having added myself more than 3000 release events, most being for France,
 it saved me quite some time by not having to select each time the country
 field.
 It's useful to have a default value which is most of the time correct,
 rather than always selecting the same value.

 > I never quite liked this option.
 If you don't like this option, just change back your preferences and set
 the default country to "[none]" which is the default value when you create
 an account. Which means that when you set a default country you made a
 conscious choice.

 >It assumes that basically all releases bought are releases from the
 country you once set it to.
 No. It present to the user a default value which is still modifiable. This
 is not a final choice.

 > Forcing to make a choice functions like a double check and given people
 a moment to think about their choice.
 Choosing a value in a combox box is also error prone, as is doing the same
 thing over and over.

--
Ticket URL: <http://bugs.musicbrainz.org/ticket/5252#comment:6>
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#5252: Remove auto pick release country feature
-------------------------------------------------+--------------------------
  Reporter:  Prodoc                              |       Owner:                  
      Type:  bug                                 |      Status:  new              
  Priority:  important                           |   Milestone:                  
 Component:  MusicBrainz Server                  |     Version:  Server 2009-05-24
Resolution:                                      |    Keywords:                  
   Browser:  Netscape, Firefox, Mozilla (Gecko)  |          Os:  Linux            
-------------------------------------------------+--------------------------
Comment (by murdos):

 Replying to [comment:5 zout]:
 > brianfreud: what about http://musicbrainz.org/release/ffe17431-4923
 -407d-9e4d-b91b7145a91d.html then?
 This release event was added automatically due to bug described in #5175.
 I don't think it was brianfreud intent to add it.

--
Ticket URL: <http://bugs.musicbrainz.org/ticket/5252#comment:7>
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#5252: Remove auto pick release country feature
-------------------------------------------------+--------------------------
  Reporter:  Prodoc                              |       Owner:                  
      Type:  bug                                 |      Status:  new              
  Priority:  important                           |   Milestone:                  
 Component:  MusicBrainz Server                  |     Version:  Server 2009-05-24
Resolution:                                      |    Keywords:                  
   Browser:  Netscape, Firefox, Mozilla (Gecko)  |          Os:  Linux            
-------------------------------------------------+--------------------------
Comment (by Prodoc):

 I have it set to none, unlike a lot of others not knowing the change in
 behaviour.

 The problem is that this feature is now causing more problems than it's
 worth. Not having to specify a date is a good thing, not always can this
 info be determined while (some of) the rest can. The same goes for just
 the release country. Making this a special case by not storing it if only
 the country is specified is unexpected behaviour and would be a step
 backwards. What if you only want to store the release country? A user
 supplies it (by default or not) and it's completely ignored. Yes, we would
 prefer more info then just that but this at least allows you to provide
 some indication about the country in which it was released.

 Does the convenience of not having to manually specify the country, one
 easy additional step, really outweigh it increased risk of invalid data?
 Now a release with just a country in the release event can never be
 trusted. This would be different when a user specifically provided this
 info. There's not a direct way of knowing what was the case in the current
 situation. Did he overlooked the country and therefore forgot to set the
 country to unknown or did he consciously set or left it on that country?

--
Ticket URL: <http://bugs.musicbrainz.org/ticket/5252#comment:8>
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#5252: Remove auto pick release country feature
-------------------------------------------------+--------------------------
  Reporter:  Prodoc                              |       Owner:                  
      Type:  bug                                 |      Status:  new              
  Priority:  important                           |   Milestone:                  
 Component:  MusicBrainz Server                  |     Version:  Server 2009-05-24
Resolution:                                      |    Keywords:                  
   Browser:  Netscape, Firefox, Mozilla (Gecko)  |          Os:  Linux            
-------------------------------------------------+--------------------------
Comment (by BrianFreud):

 Replying to [comment:5 zout]:
 > brianfreud: what about http://musicbrainz.org/release/ffe17431-4923
 -407d-9e4d-b91b7145a91d.html then?

 zout - that is proof of the problem.  That RE shouldn't be there (as I
 mentioned to murdos and prodoc, I'll be going through every add release
 edit (from everyone) since the 2009/6/3 patch, at some point soon, looking
 for any releases which have bogus "empty" REs in need of removing, like
 the one you pointed to above.

--
Ticket URL: <http://bugs.musicbrainz.org/ticket/5252#comment:9>
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#5252: Remove auto pick release country feature
-------------------------------------------------+--------------------------
  Reporter:  Prodoc                              |       Owner:                  
      Type:  bug                                 |      Status:  new              
  Priority:  important                           |   Milestone:                  
 Component:  MusicBrainz Server                  |     Version:  Server 2009-05-24
Resolution:                                      |    Keywords:                  
   Browser:  Netscape, Firefox, Mozilla (Gecko)  |          Os:  Linux            
-------------------------------------------------+--------------------------
Comment (by murdos):

 I'm not saying there is no problem. There's, and it's important (my bug
 #5175 is also set to priority important).

 But I think that the convenience of not storing the release event if only
 the country is specified, doesn't really outweigh the loss of the useful
 and commonly used feature of proposing a default release country.

--
Ticket URL: <http://bugs.musicbrainz.org/ticket/5252#comment:10>
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#5252: Remove auto pick release country feature
-------------------------------------------------+--------------------------
  Reporter:  Prodoc                              |       Owner:                  
      Type:  bug                                 |      Status:  new              
  Priority:  important                           |   Milestone:                  
 Component:  MusicBrainz Server                  |     Version:  Server 2009-05-24
Resolution:                                      |    Keywords:                  
   Browser:  Netscape, Firefox, Mozilla (Gecko)  |          Os:  Linux            
-------------------------------------------------+--------------------------
Comment (by Prodoc):

 What about an intermediate solution?

 Add a 'Use Default' button next to the release country dropdown. Pressing
 this will automatically select the country set in the preferences from the
 country dropdown. This is one click more than sticking to the current
 behaviour of automatically using the country set in the preferences but at
 least it's less steps than opening the dropdown, scrolling down and
 clicking on the country you need.

--
Ticket URL: <http://bugs.musicbrainz.org/ticket/5252#comment:11>
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#5252: Remove auto pick release country feature
-------------------------------------------------+--------------------------
  Reporter:  Prodoc                              |       Owner:                  
      Type:  bug                                 |      Status:  new              
  Priority:  important                           |   Milestone:                  
 Component:  MusicBrainz Server                  |     Version:  Server 2009-05-24
Resolution:                                      |    Keywords:                  
   Browser:  Netscape, Firefox, Mozilla (Gecko)  |          Os:  Linux            
-------------------------------------------------+--------------------------
Changes (by kuno):

 * cc: kuno (added)

Comment:

 For the record, I agree with the request.

 When discussing any of the preferences, I think it is useful to know how
 many people are actually using it.  If it's only a few people, it should
 definitely be removed.  But I guess the fact that this bug report exists
 already proves a fair amount of people think this is a useful feature.
 Still, can any developer with access to the user settings in the database
 give us a quick statistic?

--
Ticket URL: <http://bugs.musicbrainz.org/ticket/5252#comment:12>
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#5252: Remove auto pick release country feature
-------------------------------------------------+--------------------------
  Reporter:  Prodoc                              |       Owner:                  
      Type:  bug                                 |      Status:  new              
  Priority:  important                           |   Milestone:                  
 Component:  MusicBrainz Server                  |     Version:  Server 2009-05-24
Resolution:                                      |    Keywords:                  
   Browser:  Netscape, Firefox, Mozilla (Gecko)  |          Os:  Linux            
-------------------------------------------------+--------------------------
Comment (by BrianFreud):

 Any more thought as to a resolution here?  Prodoc, regarding inserting a
 "Use Default" button, in the NGS layout, there really isn't the space
 there to fit a button like that.

--
Ticket URL: <http://bugs.musicbrainz.org/ticket/5252#comment:13>
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#5252: Remove auto pick release country feature
-------------------------------------------------+--------------------------
  Reporter:  Prodoc                              |       Owner:                  
      Type:  bug                                 |      Status:  new              
  Priority:  important                           |   Milestone:                  
 Component:  MusicBrainz Server                  |     Version:  Server 2009-05-24
Resolution:                                      |    Keywords:                  
   Browser:  Netscape, Firefox, Mozilla (Gecko)  |          Os:  Linux            
-------------------------------------------------+--------------------------
Comment (by Prodoc):

 The only fool proof solution remains removing the feature completely imho.
 I think it'll keep biting us when leaving it in. We could use/should have
 some input from other devs and/or users on this one. I'll give a shout in
 the IRC channel to start with.

--
Ticket URL: <http://bugs.musicbrainz.org/ticket/5252#comment:14>
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#5252: Remove auto pick release country feature
-------------------------------------------------+--------------------------
  Reporter:  Prodoc                              |       Owner:                  
      Type:  bug                                 |      Status:  new              
  Priority:  important                           |   Milestone:                  
 Component:  MusicBrainz Server                  |     Version:  Server 2009-05-24
Resolution:                                      |    Keywords:                  
   Browser:  Netscape, Firefox, Mozilla (Gecko)  |          Os:  Linux            
-------------------------------------------------+--------------------------
Comment (by nikki):

 How about asking on the edit confirmation screen if the user wants to keep
 the release event? Something along the lines of a checkbox along the lines
 of "This release event is considered empty as you didn't change any values
 and will be removed. [ ] Keep this release event for my default country".
 If they don't tick the box, it gets removed (so no chances of accidentally
 adding release events you didn't mean to), while not stopping anyone from
 adding one if they really want to.

--
Ticket URL: <http://bugs.musicbrainz.org/ticket/5252#comment:15>
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#5252: Remove auto pick release country feature
-------------------------------------------------+--------------------------
  Reporter:  Prodoc                              |       Owner:                  
      Type:  bug                                 |      Status:  new              
  Priority:  important                           |   Milestone:                  
 Component:  MusicBrainz Server                  |     Version:  Server 2009-05-24
Resolution:                                      |    Keywords:                  
   Browser:  Netscape, Firefox, Mozilla (Gecko)  |          Os:  Linux            
-------------------------------------------------+--------------------------
Comment (by voiceinsideyou):

 I've been thinking about this over the past few weeks. After accidentally
 auto-editing myself a few dud country-only REs on releases, I removed my
 default setting and so have been doing without it over the past few weeks.
 It hasn't been too bad. Mildly annoying, but really not too bad.

 I'm not sure a new confirmation is a great idea; I find there are already
 lots of false positive confirmations required when adding new releases.

 Even as a long-time user of the feature, I think I agree with prodoc that
 saving a few seconds of time isn't really worth complicating the editor
 display further, or requiring the time-consuming fix-up edits we do now.

--
Ticket URL: <http://bugs.musicbrainz.org/ticket/5252#comment:16>
MusicBrainz Bug Tracker <http://musicbrainz.org>
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#5252: Remove auto pick release country feature
-------------------------------------------------+--------------------------
  Reporter:  Prodoc                              |       Owner:                  
      Type:  bug                                 |      Status:  new              
  Priority:  important                           |   Milestone:                  
 Component:  MusicBrainz Server                  |     Version:  Server 2009-05-24
Resolution:                                      |    Keywords:                  
   Browser:  Netscape, Firefox, Mozilla (Gecko)  |          Os:  Linux            
-------------------------------------------------+--------------------------
Comment (by BrianFreud):

 Yes, I think I agree as well now - the time savings is offset by the
 unindended data.  Any time savings would also seem more than offset by the
 annoyance of a confirmation request (which, in the new editing system,
 would I think have to be a popup confirmation dialog:  bad/ugly/annoying)

 I also cannot actually see much, if any, data benefit from a RE which is
 country-only - more than likely, if someone does later edit that RE, it'll
 be to remove that empty one, or to change the country while filling in
 more "real" RE data...  (How often do you really have the country of
 release, but absolute nothing else for the RE, when adding a release?)

--
Ticket URL: <http://bugs.musicbrainz.org/ticket/5252#comment:17>
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#5252: Remove auto pick release country feature
-------------------------------------------------+--------------------------
  Reporter:  Prodoc                              |       Owner:                  
      Type:  bug                                 |      Status:  new              
  Priority:  important                           |   Milestone:                  
 Component:  MusicBrainz Server                  |     Version:  Server 2009-05-24
Resolution:                                      |    Keywords:                  
   Browser:  Netscape, Firefox, Mozilla (Gecko)  |          Os:  Linux            
-------------------------------------------------+--------------------------
Comment (by nikki):

 I only intended the suggestion to be something which could possibly be
 implemented for now to stop all the bad release events without removing
 the default country setting or the ability to set a release event with
 just the default country (also note that I specifically worded my
 suggestion to be as unannoying as possible, if you don't want to set a
 release event for just your default country, you just ignore it completely
 and hit submit, similar to how merging releases works with the options,
 except it wouldn't force you to choose). It's obvious that there's
 disagreement about what we should do, so I'd rather we just came up with
 something which works for now without any big changes and figure out what
 we should do for NGS later when more people actually know how editing is
 going to work.

--
Ticket URL: <http://bugs.musicbrainz.org/ticket/5252#comment:18>
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#5252: Remove auto pick release country feature
-------------------------------------------------+--------------------------
  Reporter:  Prodoc                              |       Owner:                  
      Type:  bug                                 |      Status:  new              
  Priority:  important                           |   Milestone:                  
 Component:  MusicBrainz Server                  |     Version:  Server 2009-05-24
Resolution:                                      |    Keywords:                  
   Browser:  Netscape, Firefox, Mozilla (Gecko)  |          Os:  Linux            
-------------------------------------------------+--------------------------
Comment (by BrianFreud):

 Well, that's what I'm trying to figure out here, namely, in the ngs edit
 form, if and how to handle this.  (ie, the "figure out what we should do
 for NGS later" part is exactly what I'm dealing with now.)

--
Ticket URL: <http://bugs.musicbrainz.org/ticket/5252#comment:19>
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