[mb-style] Fwd: [mb-users] Cyrrilic

[g0llum]

> Currently we cannot. Therefore we should step back.

100% agreed. It's a good sign for the MB-community IMO that we are able to
discuss this in a constructive manner, and I support the points you made
very much! I personally had a hard time accepting that the artist names were
changed in the first place, but I respected it - and others even went
further and defended having the artists in navtive code against (tagger)
users who wanted to change the artist names back - which is a good thing too
(Generally speaking: If a decision has been made, it has to be put into
action, and not in a half-hearted way).

... But here it's different (and the case is quite the same as the infamous
SG5-change) - the decision has not been made with taking in the whole
picture, but stemmed from a decision on one or a minor count of moderations
--- and not a community decision, where actions have to be held back until a
consensus can be found on the respective mailing-list, and *most* people can
live with the solution. Until the database schema can support all the
features we'd like to see, we better stick to "ye olde ways" rather than
changing things which have larger implications on the consistency of the
database.

  g0llum





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[Nikki-12]

On Tue, Dec 20, 2005 at 10:47:35PM +0100, Marco Sola wrote:

> I really don't want to waste (and I never wanted to) all useful editing
> done by moderators on asian Artist, which I found proper, but seems
> indeed that their work pushed us a littlte too further. I think Don
> pointed out what could be a rationale for temporary solution about the
> really harming matter, that are (rusian) *classical* composers.
>
> Like it or not, classical music *needs* to follow separate rules even for
> basical guidelines and they quite successful do it. So maybe we could
> build another exception: since we can tell for sure that any classical
> composer has (a lot) more relesase in latin script than in native one, we
> can just simply rule down that they have to be be Latin.

I would support only reverting classical composers. I would not want to see
all artists reverted, it would be a lot of work, especially considering
that Picard will be able to tag by aliases.

For what it's worth, we currently have (as of 2005-12-21 18:04 UTC) 3169
artists with non-latin1 characters in their names, most of which mbtagger
can't handle (the characters not included in latin1 but included with
cp1252 should work [1]).

Because I'm weird, I did a quick count:

1439 Han, Hiragana, Katakana, Hangul
863 Latin
566 Cyrillic
198 Greek
45 Hebrew
41 Symbols
19 Thai
3 Arabic
2 Armenian
1 Georgian

Ignore the fact that that doesn't add up to 3169 (oops).

--Nikki

[1] letters: ŒœŠšŸŽžƒ symbols: ˆ˜–—‘’‚“”„†‡•…‰‹›€™
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[orion-6]

A thought that just occurred to me while doing some SG5DR related
cleanup - this feature will need to finally allow alias duplication.
Every disambigulated artist is going to need duplicated transliteration
related aliases.  Hadn't seen that mentioned at any point in this so
thought I'd bring it up.

Robert Kaye wrote:

>
> On Dec 20, 2005, at 11:04 AM, Orion wrote:
>
>> Robert Kaye wrote:
>>
>>> A. Artists (mostly classical, but not asian -- please help me  
>>> define  this properly) in a non-latin script will contain the  
>>> english- transliterated version of their name in the artist.name  and
>>> the  english-transliterated sort name in the artist.sortname  field.
>>> Much  like the way we had it a few weeks ago.
>>> B. Artist aliases will then be cleaned up to 1) indicate the type  
>>> of  an alias: typo, AKA, transliteration, etc 2) the language and  
>>> script  of the alias. What other alias types should we have?
>>> C. Picard (and perhaps even the web site) get a 'preferred  language/
>>> script' option that users can set and if an alias in  their language  
>>> exists, Picard will use that alias for tagging.
>>>
>>
>> To be clear - the cleanup would be for all artists, but only the  ones
>> where it made sense for the largest part of their userbase  such as
>> the Russian composers would have the main artist name set  to a latin
>> one?
>>
>> I'd personally like an alias type and preference to indicate  
>> "original"  script/name.  Rather than having to set English or  
>> Japanese or Thai I'd like each to tag to that language  automatically,
>> assuming that's what their name is in.  Care  probably needs to go
>> into wording of that, to seperate cases like  with
>> http://musicbrainz.org/showartist.html?artistid=244551 - an  attribute
>> might be set on 田中れいな to indicate it's the  original script for
>> her name, but it's not her original name http://
>> musicbrainz.org/showartist.html?artistid=297112 田中麗奈 that's  
>> linked via the "performs as" relationship, if you get what I mean.
>
>
> Yes! That is the proper solution for what I was hinting at in my  
> previous message. With this field it will be easy to undo this 'step  
> backward' when we roll out the proper solution.
>
> --
>
> --ruaok      Somewhere in Texas a village is *still* missing its idiot.
>
> Robert Kaye     --     rob@...     --    http://mayhem-chaos.net
>
>
>
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>
>

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