Namely, the same recording should be in the database once, no matter how
many albums it appears on. This is pretty important for TRM and it's
replacement - a lot of "errors" on the TRMs that map to more than one
track report are actually TRMs mapping to the same track on different
albums.
[Beth]
This would be great, if indeed it was the same song. (same time, no rips
from copied discs to change it off by a few seconds. No added musical notes
and added choruses from the artist.) However, where do you find the actual
time of a song, the first release, how the song evolved? Some artists are
simple, all of their songs obviously are the same song exactly, by second
mark and everything, easily seen with the time remaining the same for each
VA work that is listed as well. Other artists however are much more
difficult, they have released many promo tracks via the web, or a prerelease
album. The name may appear the same, but when it's remastered the track
sounds different, and when they have actually changed the structure of the
song, then it becomes a "new song" even if the ear can't immediately note
the difference, or if fingerprinting claims they are the same song. (case in
point, an acoustic version of a song with only the acoustic guitar being the
difference.)
I have come upon many instances where times don't match, yet the cd is to be
entered or saved as the exact one with the exact track names but incorrect
times representing those tracks. Which is fine by me as far as tagging goes,
however, it is incorrect by the artist's rendering and an accurate music
database.
Example right off the top of my head is Pushmonkey's Advanced release and
the production album. There as well were some Queen albums the same was true
of.
Pushmonkey's Production CD
http://musicbrainz.org/showcdtoc.html?id=14098Pushmonkey's Advance Release
http://musicbrainz.org/showcdtoc.html?id=137469Specifically Track;
3 4:21 for production and 3:51 for advanced
4 4:30 production, 5:04 Advanced
Now, I haven't gotten the purchased CD yet to see if it comes up with those
times, or how the songs differ. But, I can stand behind the advance release
as a sure thing, seeing as I own it and input the TRM. These then would need
their own entries for data correctness in my opinion.
There is also the case of Garth Brook's CD in the Ltd edition where the
times on the back of the cover (for tracks) do not match the actual play
times of the tracks. I'm not sure which album, however I can dig it out if
wanted.
All of this is sort of a moot point when you have end tagging users
inputting unchecked mp3's to get the name and structure down for their
preferred directory structure, share list and music program or what have
you. Unchecked mp3's even one's ripped by the person with the album could
have skips or lossy data conflict, a scratched cd that makes a pop in the
song. Bearing that in mind, you are going to have additional TRM's no matter
what. (which I know leads to pruning one off TRM's and I wish I could help
more with that.) There is the case of a song that sounds nothing like the
song you are trying to identify showing up in the list, and if I knew more
about how to tell the "appropriate" TRM, I would gladly begin trying to take
care of those.
So, as I would appreciate the "big picture" solution as well, and I wish my
tagger could pick up the advanced relations too might I add. ;) and be able
to tell my hard drive "this is the playlist for this album even though you
only have the mp3 on your hard drive once, and it's listed on four albums
you currently own." The only solution I can see is trying to figure out
where the songs are indeed duplicates and beginning to form some type of
flag pointing them to the various albums they appear on. (much akin to a
playlist, how you can pull it from a single directory, yet it appears on
multiple albums.)
Once that big picture is reached, I am willing to take the time with the
artists I know, to do exactly that (with a few tutorials from someone that
can help me with one or two in the beginning. :D ). At the moment however,
even using the AR, and seeming to have a knack for it. I still have a
difficult time tagging a song so it appears Artist A & Artist B from AR with
SG5's explanation (therefore, it went untitled by both artists and remained
under the first artist as it was listed on the cd.). However l do not feel I
know enough to make an educated vote for change, or to weigh feat. vrs AR
tagging. Personally I liked the feat. and learning which artists performed
on the track, but, I as well do my mp3 tags up with as much information as I
can. IE: producer, performance etc. even if it doesn't show in the name of
the song on the hard drive. So, I can see where doing away with the feat.
Is better for having the labels of the songs, but where you would still want
a tagger to put the information in the id3 tag and the information not to be
lost.
In the end it comes down to; do you want data that may be inaccurate for the
style guide, yet fully accurate beyond the style guide entered or do you
want to lose some end users that are not as technically savvy, or simply
feel they have better things to do with their time than to commit a long
amount of precious time to learning the various do this and do not do
that(s). I still have not added in the Korean album I have, due to lack of
knowledge with the character set, and am loathe to enter in a classical disc
due to being unsure of the best way to format the entry. Plus have a
multitude of VA discs I am still looking at. At some point, even when you
are trying to do as the SG says, it's daunting to (think you) have it all
down, and then input it in, and hope others will accept, teach (for when you
have messed up) and be practical with their voting and in the end have it
all tossed away to a no vote being made and not reversed, simply because you
didn't put (disc 1) instead of CD1 or, those various things. Where do you
maintain user friendly and build the data base, or make this a project of
"know how to's" and more limited input for the database? Just something to
consider, sorry for the verbosity.
Just a perspective of an end user that has attempted to learn, and been
discouraged and confused but is still plugging away at it, trying to make
sense of it, and feels this is a great project. Where do you maintain user
friendly and build the data base, or make this a project of "know how to's"
and more limited input for the database? Just something to consider, sorry
for the verbosity.
[Beth]
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