[non-free] Packaging a closed-source application with limited distribution access

[Pau Garcia i Quiles]

Hello,

I would like to package Intersystems Caché, a proprietary database by
Intersystems and upload it to non-free.

I am confident I will get a written redistribution permission for
Debian (for non-free). I am already working with them on this. In this
regard, it should be no different from other packages in non-free.

I would be using the SuSe 10 binary tarball as the starting point. I
have been running and deployed several Caché versions (5.0, 5.1,
2007.1, 2007.2, 2008.1 and 2008.2) on several versions of Debian and
Ubuntu for years and I have had no problems at all.

The main (legal) problem is accessing that binary tarball.

Intersystems distributes a single-user version of Caché in their
website for free ( http://www.intersystems.com/cache/ ) but I have
been told by Intersystems support this version would be useless. The
reason is when you license Caché, you will receive a cache.key file
you need to copy to a predefined folder in order for commercial
features to be enabled. The freely downloadable version ignores this
key file, so there is no point in packaging a demo version.

Given that the freely downloadable tarball will NOT accept commercial
license keys, I need to package a commercial version of the tarball. I
have been told this should not be a problem for Intersystems (I
waiting for a definitive answer on this, though), because without a
license key the commercial tarball behaves like the free version:
single-user. Accessing the commercial tarball would not be a problem
either, because the company I work for licenses and resells Caché, so
we already have access to the commercial tarballs.

Questions

- Is this kind of software, with such a limited access to the binary
tarball, allowed to be in non-free?

- In case the answer to the former question is negative because of the
limited access relaying on me being available: if I would get (from
Intersystems) a username and password with access only to the
commercial tarballs, just for packaging purposes, and NO public
disclosure of username and password (i. e. only to one or two more
people, think something like the "Intersystems Caché packaging team"),
would it be acceptable?

Thank you.

PS: In case you are wondering why want to package such a restrictive
software, the answer is very simple: 1) Caché has a complex
installation, 2) We are deploying it to a lot of remote clients and
packaging it makes deployment and upgrades much much easier. I'm going
to package Caché no matter if it's going to non-free or not.

--
Pau Garcia i Quiles
http://www.elpauer.org
(Due to my workload, I may need 10 days to answer)


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[Don Armstrong]

On Mon, 14 Sep 2009, Pau Garcia i Quiles wrote:
> I would like to package Intersystems Caché, a proprietary database by
> Intersystems and upload it to non-free.

[...]
 
> Questions
>
> - Is this kind of software, with such a limited access to the binary
> tarball, allowed to be in non-free?

If we actually have permission to distribute it on all of our mirrors
(and any future mirrors of Debian), there's no real reason why it
couldn't be distributed. However, since no one can actually use it in
any interesting way without it being licensed, I'm not sure if it
makes sense for Debian to distribute it. [It also really depends on
the terms of the actual license; Debian shouldn't be exposed to any
additional liability by distributing it.]

But that said, your question is really more of one for ftpmasters; I'd
send a message to ftpmaster@... and make sure that you get the
permision required for upload initially.


Don Armstrong

--
Fate and Temperament are two words for one and the same concept.
 -- Novalis [Hermann Hesse _Demian_]

http://www.donarmstrong.com              http://rzlab.ucr.edu


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[Pau Garcia i Quiles]

On Mon, Sep 14, 2009 at 11:18 PM, Don Armstrong <don@...> wrote:

> On Mon, 14 Sep 2009, Pau Garcia i Quiles wrote:
>> I would like to package Intersystems Caché, a proprietary database by
>> Intersystems and upload it to non-free.
>
> [...]
>
>> Questions
>>
>> - Is this kind of software, with such a limited access to the binary
>> tarball, allowed to be in non-free?
>
> If we actually have permission to distribute it on all of our mirrors
> (and any future mirrors of Debian), there's no real reason why it
> couldn't be distributed. However, since no one can actually use it in
> any interesting way without it being licensed, I'm not sure if it
> makes sense for Debian to distribute it. [It also really depends on
> the terms of the actual license; Debian shouldn't be exposed to any
> additional liability by distributing it.]

Well, you can actually use it in a useful and interesting way without
being licensed: as a local database. For instance, Amarok uses MySQL
locally. The single-connection ("single-user" was a bad wording)
license allows you to do that.

> But that said, your question is really more of one for ftpmasters; I'd
> send a message to ftpmaster@... and make sure that you get the
> permision required for upload initially.

Thank you. I will do that when I get redistribution permission from
Intersystems.

--
Pau Garcia i Quiles
http://www.elpauer.org
(Due to my workload, I may need 10 days to answer)


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[Joerg Jaspert]

On 11873 March 1977, Pau Garcia i. Quiles wrote:

> Given that the freely downloadable tarball will NOT accept commercial
> license keys, I need to package a commercial version of the tarball. I
> have been told this should not be a problem for Intersystems (I
> waiting for a definitive answer on this, though), because without a
> license key the commercial tarball behaves like the free version:
> single-user. Accessing the commercial tarball would not be a problem
> either, because the company I work for licenses and resells Caché, so
> we already have access to the commercial tarballs.

> Questions

> - Is this kind of software, with such a limited access to the binary
> tarball, allowed to be in non-free?

The main point within non-free is "Are we allowed to distribute it". All
the rest is a nice addition, but not neccessary.
For access to upstreams distributed stuff - well. Debian has lotsa stuff
where we basically are the main distribution point nowadays, as upstream
went away. Difference is the availability of source, so we can actually
fix bugs there. Should be easy in this case - "Its buggy? Remove the
binary crap", should upstream no longer be accessible.

> - In case the answer to the former question is negative because of the
> limited access relaying on me being available: if I would get (from
> Intersystems) a username and password with access only to the
> commercial tarballs, just for packaging purposes, and NO public
> disclosure of username and password (i. e. only to one or two more
> people, think something like the "Intersystems Caché packaging team"),
> would it be acceptable?

What does it help if its not you as a SPOF, but you and one other
person? You both go away, boom. Well, would be an easy removal then.

Besides, I would be surprised if you get the permission to redistribute
the whole thing, when they have such a restricted access to it in the
first place. After all the whole set of Debian mirrors would basically
provide their tarball, making all their user/password access
*pointless*.

> 2) We are deploying it to a lot of remote clients and
> packaging it makes deployment and upgrades much much easier. I'm going
> to package Caché no matter if it's going to non-free or not.

Well, yes, you can use an own archive too :)


So yes, if you really get a license that allows redistribution for us,
then it can go in.

--
bye, Joerg
<mrvn> Anyone with a cdrw/dvdrw drive up for some crazy experiments? Ever
       noticed how the color changes when you burn something on a CD/DVD?
       Are there ways to control it? I want ISOPAINT: Paint pictures into an
       iso image visible after its burned to cd/dvd.
<doogie> interesting idea
<doogie> how long have you been off your medication?


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