.NET Reflector now belongs to Redgate

[J Wynia-2]

On Sun, Aug 24, 2008 at 9:33 PM, Ayende Rahien <Ayende@...> wrote:

>   J,First, allow me to apologize.
> Second, the reason that I reacted this way was seeing a client that did
> not move beyond the decompilation phase.
>
> I have a project, to this day, that not only compiles the source code, but
> also embeds the entire project (files, solution, build scripts) into the
> output assembly. That was I _know_ they can't lose the code.
>










I kind of figured that might be the case. We all bring our backgrounds to
conversations and fill in the gaps in statements.

I clarified as much because of exactly what was said afterward about the
number of lurkers. If one person could misunderstand and speak up, there's a
high probability that several someone else's are out there having the same
impression. So, I clarified.

That solution for embedding the project files very cool and something I'd
never thought of. I'll definitely be packing that into my toolkit.
--
J Wynia
Software Consultant, Writer and Geek
Minneapolis, MN
j@...
"The glass isn't half full or half empty. It's just too big"
http://wynia.org

[Ian Joyce]

If only my source repository would fit on an ipod.

--Ian

On Mon, Aug 25, 2008 at 10:23 AM, Ayende Rahien <Ayende@...> wrote:
> Touching on that subject, please tell me that I am the only one who use an
> iPod to backup the source repository?
> On Mon, Aug 25, 2008 at 11:18 AM, J Wynia <j@...> wrote:

[Ayende Rahien-2]

Get a bigger iPod :-)

On Mon, Aug 25, 2008 at 11:26 AM, Ian Joyce <ian.joyce@...> wrote:

> If only my source repository would fit on an ipod.
>
> --Ian
>
> On Mon, Aug 25, 2008 at 10:23 AM, Ayende Rahien <Ayende@...> wrote:
> > Touching on that subject, please tell me that I am the only one who use
> an
> > iPod to backup the source repository?
> > On Mon, Aug 25, 2008 at 11:18 AM, J Wynia <j@...> wrote:
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

[Jay Chapman]

I assume this is a joke right?  if your repository is really over 160GB I
feel really bad for your developer team.  That must take forever to update.

On Mon, Aug 25, 2008 at 11:26 AM, Ian Joyce <ian.joyce@...> wrote:

>   If only my source repository would fit on an ipod.
>
> --Ian
>
>
> On Mon, Aug 25, 2008 at 10:23 AM, Ayende Rahien <Ayende@...<Ayende%40ayende.com>>
> wrote:
> > Touching on that subject, please tell me that I am the only one who use
> an
> > iPod to backup the source repository?
> > On Mon, Aug 25, 2008 at 11:18 AM, J Wynia <j@... <j%40wynia.org>>
> wrote:
>  
>

[Damian Hickey]

Well if every client behaved the way we'd like them to, then we'd have
nothing for tdwtf!

Yeah, I'm a lurker but I have to admit I've had to do such gung-ho work in
my time for numerous reasons, usually when the client is loosing money
because some system is down. A lot of the time educating these clients is a
waste of time.

2008/8/25 Ayende Rahien <Ayende@...>

>   J,First, allow me to apologize.
> Second, the reason that I reacted this way was seeing a client that did
> not move beyond the decompilation phase.
>
> I have a project, to this day, that not only compiles the source code, but
> also embeds the entire project (files, solution, build scripts) into the
> output assembly. That was I _know_ they can't lose the code.
>
>
> On Sun, Aug 24, 2008 at 5:31 PM, J Wynia <j@...> wrote:
>
>>  Everyone has something to teach and everyone has something they can
>> learn. Unfortunately, inflammatory phrases like "WTF" and sarcastic insults
>> rarely create an environment that encourages that kind of exchange.
>>
>> I am 100% in favor of the sharing of information. That's why I put as much
>> stuff up on my website as I do.
>>
>> Had someone asked me to clarify that workflow, I'd have done so happily.
>> Often, asking exactly such a question allows both people to clarify the bits
>> that were confusing to them. This is the kind of stuff you don't often find
>> in books or classes. I'm glad you found it useful.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Aug 24, 2008 at 3:30 PM, Alan Dean <alan.dean@...> wrote:
>>
>>>   Stepping back a little ...
>>>
>>> After you were called out and have replied, we have a much clearer
>>> picture of what you actually do.
>>>
>>> I suspect that this group has many more lurkers than participants
>>> (this is not uncommon). What is more, I suspect that many of the
>>> lurkers are those who are less experienced (at least in terms of
>>> alt.net) and who thus don't feel competent to engage.
>>>
>>> Such people might have gone away with an impression that the
>>> 'shorthand' version of your workflow originally posted would be a good
>>> thing to do.
>>>
>>> Now, they know better :-)
>>>
>>> What is more, I wouldn't consider myself inexperienced - but I learnt
>>> something. Namely, when (in extremis) you might need to introduce a
>>> delta anywhere near Live - you can use Git to mitigate the
>>> (horrendous) risks.
>>>
>>> Thankfully, I haven't had a problem both so severe and so
>>> time-sensitive in many years but I gained some knowledge - so I thank
>>> you!
>>>
>>> Alan
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, Aug 24, 2008 at 7:20 PM, J Wynia <j@... <j%40wynia.org>>
>>> wrote:
>>> > Lets step back and look at the sequence of events here.
>>> >
>>> > 1. Someone pointed out an alternate piece of software to Reflector,
>>> > indicating that it supported exporting project and solution files from
>>> the
>>> > assembly.
>>> > 2. I, knowing that there was a plugin for Reflector that does the same
>>> > thing, pointed that out.
>>> > 3. Given that I use that particular feature more often than I'd really
>>> like,
>>> > but always in situations where I have no other choice, I wrote a 22
>>> word
>>> > aside that expressed my reliance on the feature in those situations,
>>> > followed by an indication that I'd pay for it.
>>> > 4. (This is an implied event) Several people on this list came to the
>>> > conclusion that my 22 word statement described the entire breadth and
>>> depth
>>> > of my workflow, even in these situations.
>>> > 5. One of them asked whether my workflow was "WTF".
>>> > 6. One of the list members who appears not to have been in the group
>>> from #4
>>> > clarified what he thought I meant.
>>> > 7. Agreeing with the person from #6 on what I meant, I attempted to
>>> describe
>>> > the situations where this is the case.
>>> > 8. The person from #5 said they didn't mean the situations described
>>> were
>>> > WTF, but the 22 word workflow description was, based upon intense
>>> scrutiny,
>>> > which revealed that the statement was lacking a description of my
>>> source
>>> > control management in these situations.
>>> > 9. The statement below was posted, clearly indicating that the implied
>>> group
>>> > in #4 exists and consists of more than one member, furthering the
>>> > implication that I'm some sort of knuckle-dragging moron who would
>>> consider
>>> > a shared drive a source control management system.
>>> > 10. I find myself lving out this web comic in an attempt to set the
>>> record
>>> > straight. - http://xkcd.com/386/
>>> >
>>> > Had I known that my offhand 22 word description of my Reflector-based
>>> > workflow would be used as the complete picture of how I work, I would
>>> > probably just omitted it altogether. However, it's out there, and
>>> thanks to
>>> > the beauty of the Internet, attached to my name in a community of
>>> people
>>> > that I respect, so I'd like to set the record straight.
>>> >
>>> > In these situations where I need to use Reflector, here's exactly what
>>> > happens.
>>> >
>>> > I take a copy of the assembly from production, one from staging, and
>>> one
>>> > from dev. I also take a copy of the source from every possible
>>> location.
>>> > This latest time, that meant a copy from SourceSafe, a copy from
>>> Subversion
>>> > and a copy from a former developer's workstation.
>>> >
>>> > Those copies in source form are built into the appropriate assemblies.
>>> >
>>> > All 6 assemblies are run through Reflector to generate project and
>>> solution
>>> > files, into separate directories, named according to the source. The
>>> > decompiled assemblies are used even when I have the source because
>>> you're
>>> > comparing apples to apples for actual differences in the output
>>> assemblies.
>>> >
>>> > Using WinMerge, I work through the permutations between all 6
>>> directories,
>>> > generating a list of all of the differences. I use those diffs to
>>> figure out
>>> > and reconstruct a history. That history is put into a clean Subversion
>>> > repository in the appropriate order.
>>> >
>>> > Then I look at how the production snapshot in particular fits into the
>>> > equation. That nearly always results in a series of meetings with the
>>> client
>>> > to determine how those difference fit with what they intended.
>>> >
>>> > Only once that's all straightened out, does any actual work begin on
>>> that
>>> > codebase. Typically, at that point, I start using Git for local
>>> versioning
>>> > and pushing substantive changes up to Subversion or whatever the client
>>> > prefers. My Git commits are a combination of deliberate commits when I
>>> want
>>> > a snapshot and scripted commits as part of my post-build events in
>>> Visual
>>> > Studio. In other words, a typical day results in nearly constant
>>> commits and
>>> > the ability to track ALL of the changes.
>>> >
>>> > When code is ready for deployment, it's branched into a release
>>> snapshot in
>>> > the repository and the deployment is done straight out of the
>>> repository.
>>> >
>>> > So, when I neglected to include 3 words about my source code
>>> management, of
>>> > course, rather than assume that I actually do the professional thing
>>> and go
>>> > above and beyond to keep things in order, it was easy to assume that I
>>> must
>>> > be a bumbling novice and make a joke. Wrong, but easy.
>>> >
>>> > Please, do future conversations a favor and give people the benefit of
>>> the
>>> > doubt. I'm doing that to those of you who fell into the group in #4 and
>>> am
>>> > going to assume that you just made a quick glance at my post and, since
>>> it
>>> > sounded like something you'd heard from someone who DID skip the SCM
>>> portion
>>> > of the lifecycle, figured I was in the same category. I'll assume that
>>> > instead of assuming that rather than much less charitable
>>> interpretations.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > On Sat, Aug 23, 2008 at 10:15 PM, Cory Foy <usergroup@...<usergroup%40cornetdesign.com>
>>> >
>>> > wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >> You mean having a file share isn't an explicit SCM practice? ;)
>>> >>
>>> >> So yes, to having to have people who go in and do this, it is a total
>>> WTF.
>>> >>
>>> >> Cory
>>> >>
>>> >> Ayende Rahien wrote:
>>> >> > That is not the problem, I have been called into those situations.
>>> The
>>> >> > problem is that the description seems to exclude the part where you
>>> >> > setup
>>> >> > explicit SCM practices.
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> J Wynia
>> Software Consultant, Writer and Geek
>> Minneapolis, MN
>> j@...
>> "The glass isn't half full or half empty. It's just too big"
>> http://wynia.org
>>
>
>  
>

[Brad Wilson-2]

You don't want to know how much disk space it takes to do a head checkout of
the DevDiv repository. ;)

On Mon, Aug 25, 2008 at 8:31 AM, Jay Chapman <JayC202@...> wrote:

>  I assume this is a joke right?  if your repository is really over 160GB I
> feel really bad for your developer team.  That must take forever to update.
>
> On Mon, Aug 25, 2008 at 11:26 AM, Ian Joyce <ian.joyce@...> wrote:
>
>>   If only my source repository would fit on an ipod.
>>
>
>
>

--
http://bradwilson.typepad.com/
http://social.zune.net/member/Agilist
http://www.flickr.com/photos/dotnetguy/

[Ayende Rahien-2]

I don't want to know how much it takes to _install_ that, either :-)

On Mon, Aug 25, 2008 at 1:27 PM, Brad Wilson <dotnetguy@...> wrote:

>  You don't want to know how much disk space it takes to do a head checkout
> of the DevDiv repository. ;)
>
> On Mon, Aug 25, 2008 at 8:31 AM, Jay Chapman <JayC202@...> wrote:
>
>>  I assume this is a joke right?  if your repository is really over 160GB
>> I feel really bad for your developer team.  That must take forever to
>> update.
>>
>> On Mon, Aug 25, 2008 at 11:26 AM, Ian Joyce <ian.joyce@...> wrote:
>>
>>>   If only my source repository would fit on an ipod.
>>>
>>
>>
>>
> --
> http://bradwilson.typepad.com/
> http://social.zune.net/member/Agilist
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/dotnetguy/
>  
>

[Ian Joyce]

The developers generally only do a checkout of trunk/ of the project
they're working on. It's a pretty quick update.

--Ian

On Mon, Aug 25, 2008 at 10:31 AM, Jay Chapman <JayC202@...> wrote:

> I assume this is a joke right?  if your repository is really over 160GB I
> feel really bad for your developer team.  That must take forever to update.
>
> On Mon, Aug 25, 2008 at 11:26 AM, Ian Joyce <ian.joyce@...> wrote:
>>
>> If only my source repository would fit on an ipod.
>>
>> --Ian
>>
>> On Mon, Aug 25, 2008 at 10:23 AM, Ayende Rahien <Ayende@...> wrote:
>> > Touching on that subject, please tell me that I am the only one who use
>> > an
>> > iPod to backup the source repository?
>> > On Mon, Aug 25, 2008 at 11:18 AM, J Wynia <j@...> wrote:
>
>

[alberto-40]

lol, that just made my day. XD

On Sun, Aug 24, 2008 at 8:20 PM, J Wynia <j@...> wrote:

>  10. I find myself lving out this web comic in an attempt to set the
> record straight. - http://xkcd.com/386/
>

[Ilya Ryzhenkov]

Hello Ayende,

All of you don't want to know how much it takes to create something that
installs _into_ it ;)

Sincerely,
Ilya Ryzhenkov

JetBrains, Inc
http://www.jetbrains.com
"Develop with pleasure!"


AR> I don't want to know how much it takes to _install_ that, either :-)
AR>
AR> On Mon, Aug 25, 2008 at 1:27 PM, Brad Wilson
AR> <dotnetguy@...> wrote:
AR>

>> You don't want to know how much disk space it takes to do a head
>> checkout of the DevDiv repository. ;)
>>
>> On Mon, Aug 25, 2008 at 8:31 AM, Jay Chapman
>> <JayC202@...> wrote:
>>
>>> I assume this is a joke right?  if your repository is really over
>>> 160GB I feel really bad for your developer team.  That must take
>>> forever to update.
>>>
>>> On Mon, Aug 25, 2008 at 11:26 AM, Ian Joyce
>>> <ian.joyce@...> wrote:
>>>
>>>> If only my source repository would fit on an ipod.
>>>>
>> --
>> http://bradwilson.typepad.com/
>> http://social.zune.net/member/Agilist
>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/dotnetguy/

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[Ayende Rahien-2]

LOL

On Tue, Aug 26, 2008 at 5:09 PM, Ilya Ryzhenkov <orangy@...>wrote:

> Hello Ayende,
>
> All of you don't want to know how much it takes to create something that
> installs _into_ it ;)
>
> Sincerely,
> Ilya Ryzhenkov
>
> JetBrains, Inc
> http://www.jetbrains.com
> "Develop with pleasure!"
>
>
> AR> I don't want to know how much it takes to _install_ that, either :-)
> AR>
> AR> On Mon, Aug 25, 2008 at 1:27 PM, Brad Wilson
> AR> <dotnetguy@...> wrote:
> AR>
> >> You don't want to know how much disk space it takes to do a head
> >> checkout of the DevDiv repository. ;)
> >>
> >> On Mon, Aug 25, 2008 at 8:31 AM, Jay Chapman
> >> <JayC202@...> wrote:
> >>
> >>> I assume this is a joke right?  if your repository is really over
> >>> 160GB I feel really bad for your developer team.  That must take
> >>> forever to update.
> >>>
> >>> On Mon, Aug 25, 2008 at 11:26 AM, Ian Joyce
> >>> <ian.joyce@...> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> If only my source repository would fit on an ipod.
> >>>>
> >> --
> >> http://bradwilson.typepad.com/
> >> http://social.zune.net/member/Agilist
> >> http://www.flickr.com/photos/dotnetguy/
>
>
>
>
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>
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