10cc - 10cc

[Peter Ward]

This release: http://musicbrainz.org/mod/search/results.html?orderby=desc&moderator_type=4&offset=375

I've just noticed (thanks to Picard) that the tracks on this are listed in the same order as they are on the back of the LP sleeve, but the track order on the LP is different - discogs has it right:
http://www.discogs.com/10cc-10cc/release/566654

I suppose its possible that the tracks entered in MB are correct, but it seems unlikely to me.

I intend to re-enter all these tracks to put them in the right order, but if anyone can assure me that the order specified in the MB data is correct, I'll enter another release.

[Per Øyvind Øygard-2]

On Thu, 27 Aug 2009 15:19:26 +0200, Peter Ward  
<connect@...> wrote:

> This release:
> http://musicbrainz.org/mod/search/results.html?orderby=desc&moderator_type=4&offset=375

I do believe you mean  
http://musicbrainz.org/release-group/c4950b4d-cd2f-39a4-b83d-210e4a853f2a.html.  
Your link is to everyone's personal edit list.

> I've just noticed (thanks to Picard) that the tracks on this are listed  
> in
> the same order as they are on the back of the LP sleeve, but the track  
> order
> on the LP is different - discogs has it right:
> http://www.discogs.com/10cc-10cc/release/566654
> I suppose its possible that the tracks entered in MB are correct, but it
> seems unlikely to me.
> I intend to re-enter all these tracks to put them in the right order,  
> but if
> anyone can assure me that the order specified in the MB data is correct,
> I'll enter another release.

There are two copies of the vinyl in the db, one promo with the ordering  
you're referencing [1], and an official with the other ordering [2]. Some  
cursory googling however shows that the tracklisting is indeed incorrect.  
Both "UKAL 1005"[3] and "UKS 53105"[4] have the tracklisting you're  
talking about. As such I think you should move the release events to the  
promo release and tag it as official.

I was unable to find any proof for the other tracklist, though it's  
probably likely that it exists somewhere. It may even be that some  
pressings have a scrambled ordering which isn't reflected on the sleeve,  
but this is of course hard to verify for us. As such, deleting the release  
event is probably all we can do.

[1]  
http://musicbrainz.org/release/af5b3bce-88ed-466e-927b-b1df545b3196.html
[2]  
http://musicbrainz.org/release/0c0b6d7a-231b-4acb-8d40-0c8c833f9a34.html
[3] http://www.discogs.com/viewimages?release=1663295
[4]  
http://www.auctiva.com/hostedimages/showimage.aspx?gid=483628&image=291915020&images=291914999,291915020&formats=0,0&format=0

--
Per / Wizzcat

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[Florent Jochaud]

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Hi,

i know that these sources should be taken with caution but
- AllMusic is having the tracklist you want to delete http://allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&sql=10:cmen97r7kr0t

- Amazon (.com, i did not check the others) is having several versions including at least 2 with the same tracklist http://www.amazon.com/10cc/dp/B0000040MO/ and http://www.amazon.com/10cc/dp/B00004STNV/
- Wikipedia page says "Some versions of the album have an altered running order."

So i would not delete it or merge it just like that...

my 2 cts
florent

---

De : Per Øyvind Øygard <peroyo@...>
À : General discussions about MusicBrainz <musicbrainz-users@...>
Envoyé le : Jeudi, 27 Août 2009, 15h50mn 34s
Objet : Re: [mb-users] 10cc - 10cc

On Thu, 27 Aug 2009 15:19:26 +0200, Peter Ward 
<connect@...> wrote:

> This release:
> http://musicbrainz.org/mod/search/results.html?orderby=desc&moderator_type=4&offset=375

I do believe you mean 
http://musicbrainz.org/release-group/c4950b4d-cd2f-39a4-b83d-210e4a853f2a.html. 
Your link is to everyone's personal edit list.

> I've just noticed (thanks to Picard) that the tracks on this are listed 
> in
> the same order as they are on the back of the LP sleeve, but the track 
> order
> on the LP is different - discogs has it right:
> http://www.discogs.com/10cc-10cc/release/566654
> I suppose its possible that the tracks entered in MB are correct, but it
> seems unlikely to me.
> I intend to re-enter all these tracks to put them in the right order, 
> but if
> anyone can assure me that the order specified in the MB data is correct,
> I'll enter another release.

There are two copies of the vinyl in the db, one promo with the ordering 
you're referencing [1], and an official with the other ordering [2]. Some 
cursory googling however shows that the tracklisting is indeed incorrect. 
Both "UKAL 1005"[3] and "UKS 53105"[4] have the tracklisting you're 
talking about. As such I think you should move the release events to the 
promo release and tag it as official.

I was unable to find any proof for the other tracklist, though it's 
probably likely that it exists somewhere. It may even be that some 
pressings have a scrambled ordering which isn't reflected on the sleeve, 
but this is of course hard to verify for us. As such, deleting the release 
event is probably all we can do.

[1] 
http://musicbrainz.org/release/af5b3bce-88ed-466e-927b-b1df545b3196.html
[2] 
http://musicbrainz.org/release/0c0b6d7a-231b-4acb-8d40-0c8c833f9a34.html
[3] http://www.discogs.com/viewimages?release=1663295
[4] 
http://www.auctiva.com/hostedimages/showimage.aspx?gid=483628ℑ=291915020&images=291914999,291915020&formats=0,0&format=0

--
Per / Wizzcat

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start: 2008-09-03 end: 0000-00-00
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[Peter Ward]

If track order 1 is the one which starts with "Johnny Don't Do It", and 2 is the one which starts with "Rubber Bullets", here's a summary of the five releases in the group:

Release - trackorder - date - no. of releases with label/catalogue number

Promotional - 1  - 1973 - no release
Official 1 - 2 - 1973-9 - currently has original release, wrong track order
Official 2 - 1 + 5 bonus - 2000-4-4 - no realease
Official 3 - 1 + 5 bonus - 2007-4-9 - one release
Official 4 - 2 + 3 bonus - no date - no release

I have to wonder what official releases 2 and 4 are doing there as they have no release event

No one appears to have seen the original LP with track order 2.  As I mentioned, the tracks are listed on the back cover in that order, but I didn't make clear that it is just a list of titles, there are no side or track numbers in the list.  I looked for a scan of the back, but couldn't find one.

As far as the LP release goes, there's no evidence that track order 2 is correct, and I suspect it's one of those things that started because of the listing on the back cover, and it's been a self-sustaining error since.  It does appear that some CD re-releases have the other track ordering, though.

I think the best thing to do is change "Official 1" to the track order on the LP.