2010: worst MDV/MDK experience ever!

[Norman Carver]

I had installed 2010RC2 and had no problems, but
just spent a couple of hours playing with 2010 final,
and nothing but problem after problem after problem.
Most have been KDE4 problems: desktop icons disappearing,
kwin crashing, plasma crashing, krunner a runaway process,
power management first could not control screen brightness
and said could not throttle cpu (but now both fine), etc.
The rest have been MDV problems:  installer put grub into
the wrong partition because of partition labels, updates
hung partway through, online keeps offering me a new
repository as powerpack subscriber but segaults when
try to add, and more.  Have had to hard boot the machine
twice in the first hour of use.  Absolute disaster!!  I have
been using Mandriva and Mandrake for many years, and
have never encountered anything remotely like this, even
with release candidates.  Wonder what gives?  How could
RC2 have been basically fine on this same machine and
then the release be completely unstable in every way?

And before somebody blames the download/disc:
Powerpack DVDs were downloaded via bittorrent, and
their md5sum's are correct.  Burned dvds were also
compared against iso's and were perfect.

Really wondering whether to stay with Mandriva now.
Main desktops are still 2008.1 and KDE3.  Rock solid
stable (OS and KDE both run for 4mos without issues)
and fantastic usability for my work.  Obviously, though,
it is time to update.  Was hoping 2010 would be better
than 2009.1, which I have been using on a laptop.  Sure
doesn't look that way, though.  Downloading Debian 5.0
to see how its KDE3 works.  Any other suggestions would
be appreciated.
Norm

[Arnold Troeger-2]

Norman Carver wrote:

> I had installed 2010RC2 and had no problems, but
> just spent a couple of hours playing with 2010 final,
> and nothing but problem after problem after problem.
> Most have been KDE4 problems: desktop icons disappearing,
> kwin crashing, plasma crashing, krunner a runaway process,
> power management first could not control screen brightness
> and said could not throttle cpu (but now both fine), etc.
> The rest have been MDV problems:  installer put grub into
> the wrong partition because of partition labels, updates
> hung partway through, online keeps offering me a new
> repository as powerpack subscriber but segaults when
> try to add, and more.  Have had to hard boot the machine
> twice in the first hour of use.  Absolute disaster!!  I have
> been using Mandriva and Mandrake for many years, and
> have never encountered anything remotely like this, even
> with release candidates.  Wonder what gives?  How could
> RC2 have been basically fine on this same machine and
> then the release be completely unstable in every way?
>
> And before somebody blames the download/disc:
> Powerpack DVDs were downloaded via bittorrent, and
> their md5sum's are correct.  Burned dvds were also
> compared against iso's and were perfect.
>
> Really wondering whether to stay with Mandriva now.
> Main desktops are still 2008.1 and KDE3.  Rock solid
> stable (OS and KDE both run for 4mos without issues)
> and fantastic usability for my work.  Obviously, though,
> it is time to update.  Was hoping 2010 would be better
> than 2009.1, which I have been using on a laptop.  Sure
> doesn't look that way, though.  Downloading Debian 5.0
> to see how its KDE3 works.  Any other suggestions would
> be appreciated.
> Norm
>
>

Hello Norm,
I empathize.  I have Mandriva 2009.1 PowerPack with KDE4 running on
several machines now, including my Intel Q9550S box and my Phenom II 940
box with no problems at all.  I have Mandrive 2009.1 running with GNOME
on several other boxes (better Thai support) also with no problems.  I
am planning to put 2010 on the Phenom II box tonight.  I'll report back
any problems.  Were I you, I would install 2009.1 and patch it up to
current level.  KDE4 has been very well behaved with the last set of
patches.  I recall also, you can run "urpmi task-kde3" still to pick up
the kde3 binaries.

If you're really serious about the KDE 3 support though, PCLinuxOS and
Debian still have KDE 3 support.

Cheers,
Arnold

--
Arnold Troeger Chevron Thailand E & P
Phone:  [phone]       5th Floor, Tower 3, SCB Park Plaza
FAX: [phone] Ratchadapisek Road, Chatuchak
Email:  Arnold.Troeger@... Bangkok 10900, Thailand
------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Norman Carver]

On Sunday 08 November 2009 09:19:07 pm Arnold Troeger wrote:
> Were I you, I would install 2009.1 and patch it up to
> current level.  KDE4 has been very well behaved with the last set of
> patches.  I recall also, you can run "urpmi task-kde3" still to pick up
> the kde3 binaries.
>
> If you're really serious about the KDE 3 support though, PCLinuxOS and
> Debian still have KDE 3 support.

Arnold,
I have (fully patched) 2009.1 on this same laptop, and don't have
stability issues.  Now usability issues with KDE4?  Those I have!
I would rate KDE3 and its Konqueror in particular as about 9.9/10
for my needs and work habits.  KDE4?  Would maybe give it a 5/10.
I lost a bunch of important (to me) functionality and got nothing
that I want in return, so still very unhappy about KDE4!  Very glad to
know that PCLinuxOS has KDE3 support.  Knew only about Debian,
but not a big Debian fan.

Incidentally, just tried another install of 2010 (separate partition),
but using ext3 instead.  Still some odd behaviors, but working
better.  Of course, having Dolphin show your home directory as
*empty* and then having an "ls -A" on your home directory hang,
does not inspire much confidence.  Began seeing kernel oops's
on the other install, so this may all be kernel/filesystem related.
Odd that RC2 did not have these issues, though.
Norm

[Arnold Troeger-2]

Norman Carver wrote:

> I had installed 2010RC2 and had no problems, but
> just spent a couple of hours playing with 2010 final,
> and nothing but problem after problem after problem.
> Most have been KDE4 problems: desktop icons disappearing,
> kwin crashing, plasma crashing, krunner a runaway process,
> power management first could not control screen brightness
> and said could not throttle cpu (but now both fine), etc.
> The rest have been MDV problems:  installer put grub into
> the wrong partition because of partition labels, updates
> hung partway through, online keeps offering me a new
> repository as powerpack subscriber but segaults when
> try to add, and more.  Have had to hard boot the machine
> twice in the first hour of use.  Absolute disaster!!  I have
> been using Mandriva and Mandrake for many years, and
> have never encountered anything remotely like this, even
> with release candidates.  Wonder what gives?  How could
> RC2 have been basically fine on this same machine and
> then the release be completely unstable in every way?
>
> And before somebody blames the download/disc:
> Powerpack DVDs were downloaded via bittorrent, and
> their md5sum's are correct.  Burned dvds were also
> compared against iso's and were perfect.
>
> Really wondering whether to stay with Mandriva now.
> Main desktops are still 2008.1 and KDE3.  Rock solid
> stable (OS and KDE both run for 4mos without issues)
> and fantastic usability for my work.  Obviously, though,
> it is time to update.  Was hoping 2010 would be better
> than 2009.1, which I have been using on a laptop.  Sure
> doesn't look that way, though.  Downloading Debian 5.0
> to see how its KDE3 works.  Any other suggestions would
> be appreciated.
> Norm
>
>

Hi Norm,
One thing I'm puzzled by.  Did you try the "urpmi task-kde3" on your
2009.1 machine?  I thought that capability still existed in 2009.1.
Don't yet know about 2010 though.

--
Arnold Troeger Chevron Thailand E & P
Phone:  [phone]       5th Floor, Tower 3, SCB Park Plaza
FAX: [phone] Ratchadapisek Road, Chatuchak
Email:  Arnold.Troeger@... Bangkok 10900, Thailand
------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Arnold Troeger-2]

Arnold Troeger wrote:

> Norman Carver wrote:
>> I had installed 2010RC2 and had no problems, but
>> just spent a couple of hours playing with 2010 final,
>> and nothing but problem after problem after problem.
>> Most have been KDE4 problems: desktop icons disappearing,
>> kwin crashing, plasma crashing, krunner a runaway process,
>> power management first could not control screen brightness
>> and said could not throttle cpu (but now both fine), etc.
>> The rest have been MDV problems:  installer put grub into
>> the wrong partition because of partition labels, updates
>> hung partway through, online keeps offering me a new
>> repository as powerpack subscriber but segaults when
>> try to add, and more.  Have had to hard boot the machine
>> twice in the first hour of use.  Absolute disaster!!  I have
>> been using Mandriva and Mandrake for many years, and
>> have never encountered anything remotely like this, even
>> with release candidates.  Wonder what gives?  How could
>> RC2 have been basically fine on this same machine and
>> then the release be completely unstable in every way?
>>
>> And before somebody blames the download/disc:
>> Powerpack DVDs were downloaded via bittorrent, and
>> their md5sum's are correct.  Burned dvds were also
>> compared against iso's and were perfect.
>>
>> Really wondering whether to stay with Mandriva now.
>> Main desktops are still 2008.1 and KDE3.  Rock solid
>> stable (OS and KDE both run for 4mos without issues)
>> and fantastic usability for my work.  Obviously, though,
>> it is time to update.  Was hoping 2010 would be better
>> than 2009.1, which I have been using on a laptop.  Sure
>> doesn't look that way, though.  Downloading Debian 5.0
>> to see how its KDE3 works.  Any other suggestions would
>> be appreciated.
>> Norm
>>
>>
>
> Hello Norm,
> I empathize.  I have Mandriva 2009.1 PowerPack with KDE4 running on
> several machines now, including my Intel Q9550S box and my Phenom II 940
> box with no problems at all.  I have Mandrive 2009.1 running with GNOME
> on several other boxes (better Thai support) also with no problems.  I
> am planning to put 2010 on the Phenom II box tonight.  I'll report back
> any problems.  Were I you, I would install 2009.1 and patch it up to
> current level.  KDE4 has been very well behaved with the last set of
> patches.  I recall also, you can run "urpmi task-kde3" still to pick up
> the kde3 binaries.
>
> If you're really serious about the KDE 3 support though, PCLinuxOS and
> Debian still have KDE 3 support.
>
> Cheers,
> Arnold
>

I put 2010 on a second boot partition on my Phenom II box.  The install
went perfectly.  I'm using ext3 filesystems BTW.  Got wireless working.
 Went to EasyURPMI to set up updates,  Updates went on fine.  Then I
decided to build the kernel module for my RocketRAID 2640x4 card.  No
go.  Compiler errors about multiple typedefs and multiple defs.  Oh
well, Set up an account with Highpoint and reported the problem.  Let's
see what comes back.

Cheers,
Arnold

--
Arnold Troeger Chevron Thailand E & P
Phone:  [phone]       5th Floor, Tower 3, SCB Park Plaza
FAX: [phone] Ratchadapisek Road, Chatuchak
Email:  Arnold.Troeger@... Bangkok 10900, Thailand
------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Norman Carver]

On Monday 09 November 2009 07:24:15 pm Arnold Troeger wrote:
> One thing I'm puzzled by.  Did you try the "urpmi task-kde3" on your
> 2009.1 machine?  I thought that capability still existed in 2009.1.
> Don't yet know about 2010 though.

I had done that with 2009.0 since KDE4 was effectively unusable
there, but had stuck with KDE4 on 2009.1 to try to see if it was going
to be usable on my main machines (I have a bunch of partitions
on one laptop that I have various test Linuxes installed on).  I must
note, though, that KDE3 on 2009.0/.1 is not 100% of the KDE3 on 2008.1.
Things like the kparts elements of Gwenview that allow Konqueror to
be a good photo browser are missing (since the Gwenview is the KDE4
version).  Thus, you have to go back to 2008.1 to get a completely
functional KDE3 with Mandriva.

Trying x86_84 install of 2010 right now to see if it works any better.
Then it will be Debian 5.0 going for a spin (with KDE3).  Also downloaded
PCLinuxOS KDE3 for a trial.

[Renaud (Ron) Olgiati]

On Monday 09 November 2009, my mailbox was graced by a missive
 from Arnold Troeger <arnold.troeger@...> who wrote:

> One thing I'm puzzled by.  Did you try the "urpmi task-kde3" on your
> 2009.1 machine?  I thought that capability still existed in 2009.1.

Only in 2009.0, was dropped in 2009.1

Which is why i run 2009.0  ;-3)

Now that they are dropping KDE 3 from  Mandriva, which WM would you recommend
as a replacement for KDE ? I dont like Gnome, and I _hate_ KDE4
 
Cheers,
 
Ron.
--
                      A common mistake that people make
             when trying to design something completely foolproof
             is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools.
                                                 -- Douglas Adams
                                   
                   -- http://www.olgiati-in-paraguay.org --

[Felix Miata-3]

On 2009/11/10 06:53 (GMT-0300) Renaud (Ron) OLGIATI composed:

> On Monday 09 November 2009, my mailbox was graced by a missive

>  from Arnold Troeger <arnold.troeger@...> who wrote:

>> One thing I'm puzzled by.  Did you try the "urpmi task-kde3" on your
>> 2009.1 machine?  I thought that capability still existed in 2009.1.

> Only in 2009.0, was dropped in 2009.1

> Which is why i run 2009.0  ;-3)

> Now that they are dropping KDE 3 from  Mandriva, which WM would you recommend
> as a replacement for KDE ? I dont like Gnome, and I _hate_ KDE4

KDE3? The catch is you have to install openSUSE 11.2 first, then add
http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/KDE:/KDE3/openSUSE_11.2/ and then
add KDE3. Since those are RPMs, maybe you could get them to install in
2010.0? Considering the alternatives, to me it's a no-brainer - if
"upgrading" is actually necessary. What's wrong with sticking with 2009.0?
--
The husband should fulfill his marital duty to
his wife, and likewise the wife to her husband.
                        1 Corinthians 7:3 NIV

 Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409

Felix Miata  ***  http://fm.no-ip.com/

[Renaud (Ron) Olgiati]

On Tuesday 10 November 2009, my mailbox was graced by a missive
 from Felix Miata <mrmazda@...> who wrote:

> The catch is you have to install openSUSE 11.2

On top of Mandriva ? Or in replacement ?
 
Cheers,
 
Ron.
--
                       Progress in physics is achieved
                            by denying the obvious
                        and accepting the impossible.
                                    -- Robert Heinlein
                                   
                   -- http://www.olgiati-in-paraguay.org --

[Michael Adams-2]

On Tue, 10 Nov 2009 06:53:47 -0300
Came this utterance formulated by Renaud (Ron) OLGIATI to my mailbox:

> Now that they are dropping KDE 3 from  Mandriva, which WM would you
> recommend as a replacement for KDE ? I dont like Gnome, and I _hate_
> KDE4
>  

IceWM
http://sourceforge.net/projects/icewm/

Package is in 2010
FREE-2010-i586 /main/icewm-light-1.3.3-2mdv2010.0.i586

Some of the tools pad it out:
http://www.icewm.org/FAQ/IceWM-FAQ.html#toc11

Been using it for years.

--
Michael

All shall be well, and all shall be well, and all manner of things shall
be well

 - Julian of Norwich 1342 - 1416

[Norman Carver]

On Tuesday 10 November 2009 05:32:29 am Felix Miata wrote:
> KDE3? The catch is you have to install openSUSE 11.2 first, then add
> http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/KDE:/KDE3/openSUSE_11.2/ and then
> add KDE3.

From opensuse.org:
Starting with openSUSE 11.2 the KDE3 desktop is no longer an officially
supported part of the openSUSE distribution. There is still a possibility to
install KDE3 from an unsupported repository KDE:KDE3.

[Felix Miata-3]

On 2009/11/10 10:43 (GMT-0600) Norman Carver composed:

> On Tuesday 10 November 2009 05:32:29 am Felix Miata wrote:

>> KDE3? The catch is you have to install openSUSE 11.2 first, then add
>> http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/KDE:/KDE3/openSUSE_11.2/ and then
>> add KDE3.

> From opensuse.org:
> Starting with openSUSE 11.2 the KDE3 desktop is no longer an officially
> supported part of the openSUSE distribution. There is still a possibility to
> install KDE3 from an unsupported repository KDE:KDE3.

Which is worse?

1-No KDE3, or
2-"Unsupported" KDE3

Is your libdvdcss officially supported? Are your w32codecs officially
supported? Is your VideoLAN officially supported? Does KDE3 even need any
support, much less "official"?

I have one 11.2 system running KDE3 from the above URL. I haven't noticed any
differences from earlier KDE3 versions.
--
The husband should fulfill his marital duty to
his wife, and likewise the wife to her husband.
                        1 Corinthians 7:3 NIV

 Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409

Felix Miata  ***  http://fm.no-ip.com/

[Norman Carver]

On Tuesday 10 November 2009 11:04:25 am Felix Miata wrote:
> Which is worse?
>
> 1-No KDE3, or
> 2-"Unsupported" KDE3
>..
> I have one 11.2 system running KDE3 from the above URL. I haven't noticed
> any differences from earlier KDE3 versions.

Yes--I just wanted to point out that OpenSuse 11.2 does not really
support KDE3.  The Opensuse KDE3 page actually also says:
WARNING: The KDE:KDE3 repository is currently unmaintained and may not even
update and build correctly. We also do not accept any bugreports for it. Use
at your own risk.

I personally would prefer a distro that officially supports KDE3.  That is
why I am looking at Debian and PCLinuxOS.  MDV 2008.1 is still working
perfectly for me on multiple machines.