2GB SD card won't format

[Jinx-4]

I bought a 2GB SD card to use in a project ** and it just won't format
with FAT. I've tried it in a PC card reader, camera and laptop's card slot.
The PC error is Windows Can't Complete Format, or the card is said
not to be present. Looking around with Google I find this seems to be a
problem with 2GB SD cards, and some people have had luck with putting
them in 98 machines

So this is partly a plea for a solution and partly a heads up although it looks
like I may have to try and exchange this for a 4GB SDHC

BTW, there's a claim on the back of the SD packet which says "Operating
shock rating of 1,000Gs, equivalent to a 10-foot drop to the floor"

1000G from 10ft ? Remembering that will tighten up the old sphincter when
you're up a ladder

======================

** A dsPIC-based WAV player/recorder

http://www.siliconchip.com.au/cms/A_111521/article.html

The end use for this is a museum display of an automated 1906 Edison
cylinder player. It's in working order but the stylus has been removed
to protect the cyclinder so audio will come from the SD card files

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[jim-142]

That's a 1000 G's for the SD Card.  Not you.  

-----Original Message-----
From: piclist-bounces@... [mailto:piclist-bounces@...] On Behalf Of
Jinx
Sent: Sunday, October 11, 2009 7:55 PM
To: Microcontroller discussion list - Public.
Subject: [EE] 2GB SD card won't format

I bought a 2GB SD card to use in a project ** and it just won't format
with FAT. I've tried it in a PC card reader, camera and laptop's card slot.
The PC error is Windows Can't Complete Format, or the card is said
not to be present. Looking around with Google I find this seems to be a
problem with 2GB SD cards, and some people have had luck with putting
them in 98 machines

So this is partly a plea for a solution and partly a heads up although it
looks
like I may have to try and exchange this for a 4GB SDHC

BTW, there's a claim on the back of the SD packet which says "Operating
shock rating of 1,000Gs, equivalent to a 10-foot drop to the floor"

1000G from 10ft ? Remembering that will tighten up the old sphincter when
you're up a ladder

======================

** A dsPIC-based WAV player/recorder

http://www.siliconchip.com.au/cms/A_111521/article.html

The end use for this is a museum display of an automated 1906 Edison
cylinder player. It's in working order but the stylus has been removed
to protect the cyclinder so audio will come from the SD card files

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[Sean Breheny]

Hi Jinx,

I can't help with formatting the SD card, but as for the 1000G's,
you'd be surprised how high the acceleration can be when a hard object
meets a hard floor. Remember, it depends not only on the height of the
fall but also on the amount of deformation which can happen upon
impact. A person's body will deform a great deal (and up to a certain
point, harmlessly, like bending your legs or compressing the fat
layer). However, an SD card, with its hard plastic case, will not
deform much during an impact. However, given its low density and high
surface area, I would also suspect that it would not reach a very high
velocity while falling. A better example of very high G's would be
dropping a billiard ball onto concrete.

Sean


On Sun, Oct 11, 2009 at 8:54 PM, Jinx <joecolquitt@...> wrote:

> I bought a 2GB SD card to use in a project ** and it just won't format
> with FAT. I've tried it in a PC card reader, camera and laptop's card slot.
> The PC error is Windows Can't Complete Format, or the card is said
> not to be present. Looking around with Google I find this seems to be a
> problem with 2GB SD cards, and some people have had luck with putting
> them in 98 machines
>
> So this is partly a plea for a solution and partly a heads up although it looks
> like I may have to try and exchange this for a 4GB SDHC
>
> BTW, there's a claim on the back of the SD packet which says "Operating
> shock rating of 1,000Gs, equivalent to a 10-foot drop to the floor"
>
> 1000G from 10ft ? Remembering that will tighten up the old sphincter when
> you're up a ladder
>
> ======================
>
> ** A dsPIC-based WAV player/recorder
>
> http://www.siliconchip.com.au/cms/A_111521/article.html
>
> The end use for this is a museum display of an automated 1906 Edison
> cylinder player. It's in working order but the stylus has been removed
> to protect the cyclinder so audio will come from the SD card files
>
> --
> http://www.piclist.com PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
> View/change your membership options at
> http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist
>

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[Adam Field]

> On Sun, Oct 11, 2009 at 8:54 PM, Jinx <joecolquitt@...> wrote:
>> I bought a 2GB SD card to use in a project ** and it just won't format
>> with FAT. I've tried it in a PC card reader, camera and laptop's card slot.
>> The PC error is Windows Can't Complete Format, or the card is said
>> not to be present. Looking around with Google I find this seems to be a
>> problem with 2GB SD cards, and some people have had luck with putting
>> them in 98 machines

You could try a linux live cd like knoppix or finnix and use mkfs.vfat
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[Jinx-4]

> However, given its low density and high surface area, I would also
> suspect that it would not reach a very high velocity while falling

That's what I thought. If my Applied Maths (aaah Ms Pfannkuck,
where are you now ?) memory serves me

v^2 = u^2 + 2as

v^2 = 0 + (2 x 9.81 x 3)

v = 8m/s (29kph, 18mph)

> A better example of very high G's would be dropping a billiard ball
> onto concrete

Yes, shock-absorbing deformation makes all the difference. That's
why stunt men's ankles don't come out their ears ;-)

You could use one of the other motion equations to work out what
deceleration time would apply to cause 1000G and the resulting
deformation. I'm guessing it would be some fraction of a mm


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[Tamas Rudnai]

On Mon, Oct 12, 2009 at 7:28 AM, Jinx <joecolquitt@...> wrote:

> v = 8m/s (29kph, 18mph)
>

Just as a side note: 'kph' would mean 'Kilo Per Hour'. The correct
abbreviation is 'km/h'.

Tamas
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[Nicola Perotto]

Hi Jinx,

Jinx wrote:
> I bought a 2GB SD card to use in a project ** and it just won't format
> with FAT.
but why you want to format the SD? They sell it pre-formated!
Witch kind of FAT you need? FAT12, FAT16 or FAT32?
Usually a 2GB is formated with FAT16.
Aside, not all reader permit to format, dont know why!


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[Jinx-4]

> but why you want to format the SD? They sell it pre-formated!

Well, that's what I expected, but as soon as Windows saw it I was
asked if I wanted to format. And then wouldn't when I said yes. Also
the camera wanted to format it too, so that does look like it had no
format. As I mentioned, others on the web have had problems with
2GB cards

> Witch kind of FAT you need? FAT12, FAT16 or FAT32?

16 or 32 would be OK

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[Jinx-4]

> but why you want to format the SD? They sell it pre-formated!

Oh, I do remember doing a Properties on the card and it read as RAW

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[Nicola Perotto]

Jinx wrote:
>> but why you want to format the SD? They sell it pre-formated!
>>    
>
> Oh, I do remember doing a Properties on the card and it read as RAW
>  
Strange!
I've used a tool named "HP USB Disk Storage Format Tool" to successfully
format some SD.
Google for it!


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[Tamas Rudnai]

Do you have MBR (aka partition table) on that disk? You may have to create
one manually.

Tamas

On Mon, Oct 12, 2009 at 11:23 AM, Jinx <joecolquitt@...> wrote:

>
> > but why you want to format the SD? They sell it pre-formated!
>
> Oh, I do remember doing a Properties on the card and it read as RAW
>
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[Vic Fraenckel]

Jinx wrote:
> I bought a 2GB SD card to use in a project ** and it just won't format
> with FAT. I've tried it in a PC card reader, camera and laptop's card slot.
> The PC error is Windows Can't Complete Format, or the card is said
> not to be present. Looking around with Google I find this seems to be a
> problem with 2GB SD cards, and some people have had luck with putting
> them in 98 machines
>
>  
Did your google search find this site:
http://www.sdcard.org/consumers/formatter/

Might get the job done!

Vic
KC2GUI
windswaytoo ATSIGN gmail DOT com

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[Jinx-4]

> Did your google search find this site:
> http://www.sdcard.org/consumers/formatter/
>
> Might get the job done!

Here's hoping. I've downloaded it and will try in the morning

I installed Nicola's HP formatter. Unfortunately it reports "No
media" in the card reader, although I noticed when selecting the
card reader with the HP formatter that it came up as "1GB". So
is it there or isn't it ? During my Google search yesterday I read
that people had reported the smaller SD cards formatting to only
half their capacity, and I suspect that if the HP formatter had
worked this might have happened

Perhaps this card is faulty or SD is somehow flakey in my
situation, because these seem unreasonable lengths to go to
to simply format it. If the card formatter above doesn't work
I think I'll go with Plan B and return it in exchange for a 4GB
SDHC, which I have no problems with

Thanks for all the suggestions


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[David Duffy (AVD)]

Jinx wrote:

>> Did your google search find this site:
>> http://www.sdcard.org/consumers/formatter/
>>
>> Might get the job done!
>>    
>
> Here's hoping. I've downloaded it and will try in the morning
>
> I installed Nicola's HP formatter. Unfortunately it reports "No
> media" in the card reader, although I noticed when selecting the
> card reader with the HP formatter that it came up as "1GB". So
> is it there or isn't it ? During my Google search yesterday I read
> that people had reported the smaller SD cards formatting to only
> half their capacity, and I suspect that if the HP formatter had
> worked this might have happened
>
> Perhaps this card is faulty or SD is somehow flakey in my
> situation, because these seem unreasonable lengths to go to
> to simply format it. If the card formatter above doesn't work
> I think I'll go with Plan B and return it in exchange for a 4GB
> SDHC, which I have no problems with
>
>  

I've heard of fake SD cards where the actual capacity is much less than
the stated capacity. These fake ones do return the correct properties
but fail when you try to actually access the data in the non existent area.
David...

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Our Web Site: www.audiovisualdevices.com.au
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[Tamas Rudnai]

On Mon, Oct 12, 2009 at 1:24 PM, David Duffy (AVD) <
david@...> wrote:

> I've heard of fake SD cards where the actual capacity is much less than
> the stated capacity. These fake ones do return the correct properties
> but fail when you try to actually access the data in the non existent area.
> David...
>

Perhaps that's the reason they are selling those unformatted? ;-)

Tamas

>
> --
> ___________________________________________
> David Duffy        Audio Visual Devices P/L
> Unit 8, 10 Hook St, Capalaba 4157 Australia
> Ph: [phone]      Fax: [phone]
> Our Web Site: www.audiovisualdevices.com.au
> ___________________________________________
>
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[cdenk]

I have had with my Intel motherboard, and an internal connected header,
the card reader was not recognized, where it previously worked, plugging
the reader into another USB header, and it worked. Maybe some sort of
hardware problem, what happens with other cards?

Jinx wrote:
> the card is said
> not to be present.
>  
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[Olin Lathrop]

Jinx wrote:
> That's what I thought. If my Applied Maths (aaah Ms Pfannkuck,
> where are you now ?) memory serves me
>
> v^2 = u^2 + 2as
>
> v^2 = 0 + (2 x 9.81 x 3)
>
> v = 8m/s (29kph, 18mph)

It's not clear what exactly you're doing here since you didn't define your
terms, so let's start from the beginning.

  V = AT

Where V is the change in velocity as accelleration A is applied for time T.
The distance traveled during that time is the average velocity times the
time.  In our case the initial velocity is 0, and it's obvious from the
equation above that V changes linearly.  The average velocity of the
interval is therefore half the final velocity, which allows us to find the
distance D:

      1
  D = - VT
      2

We know the distance and accelleration and want to know the velocity, but
don't know nor care about time.  Solving for T:

      2 D
  T = ---
       V

Which can now be substituted in the first equation to find V:

      2AD
  V = ---      V**2 = 2AD     V = sqrt(2AD)
       V

  V = sqrt(2 * 9.8m/s**2 * 3.05m) = 7.7m/s

And this is assuming no air resistance.  1000G is 9800m/s**2.  The time it
takes to decellerate at 1000G is:

            7.7m/s
  Tstop = ---------- = 786uS
          9800m/s**2

So their claim implicitly says the card comes to a stop worst case in 3/4 of
a millisecond.  I guess that sounds plausible for a hard floor and
considering the hard plastic case.


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[Olin Lathrop]

Nicola Perotto wrote:
> Witch kind of FAT you need? FAT12, FAT16 or FAT32?

I think FAT13 or FAT17 is preferred for that kind of application, although a
pensieve may be more appropriate.


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[William "Chops" Westfield]

On Oct 12, 2009, at 5:47 AM, Jinx wrote:

> Perhaps this card is faulty or SD is somehow flakey in my
> situation, because these seem unreasonable lengths to go to
> to simply format it.

I've never had problems with the 2G SD cards I have (I think I have  
four of them, mostly micro-SD.)  2G is apparently the limit for "SD"  
low-level protocols; a 4G card requires SDHC electronics and  
firmware.  I had to replace card readers to read the 4G card(s) I  
bought, and it required careful attention to specs.  A lot of "many-
in-1 SD card readers" don't do SDHC (at least, as of six months ago...)

BillW

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[Mark Rages]

On Mon, Oct 12, 2009 at 11:54 AM, William "Chops" Westfield
<westfw@...> wrote:

>
> On Oct 12, 2009, at 5:47 AM, Jinx wrote:
>
>> Perhaps this card is faulty or SD is somehow flakey in my
>> situation, because these seem unreasonable lengths to go to
>> to simply format it.
>
> I've never had problems with the 2G SD cards I have (I think I have
> four of them, mostly micro-SD.)  2G is apparently the limit for "SD"
> low-level protocols; a 4G card requires SDHC electronics and
> firmware.  I had to replace card readers to read the 4G card(s) I
> bought, and it required careful attention to specs.  A lot of "many-
> in-1 SD card readers" don't do SDHC (at least, as of six months ago...)
>
> BillW

The firmware change is actually quite small (basically, divide the
address by 512), but I guess that's no help when the firmware is baked
into a card reader ASIC.

Regards,
Mark
markrages@gmail
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Midwest Telecine LLC
markrages@...

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