4.6: new windows now start on bottom

[Grant Edwards-6]

On 2009-06-17, Yves-Alexis Perez <corsac@...> wrote:
> On mer, 2009-06-17 at 20:34 +0000, Grant Edwards wrote:
>> > Come on, it's only broken for you. It works for everybody else,
>>
>> Oh.  Well I guess that explains the other poster who reported
>> setting up devilspie to work around the problem and also the
>> postings in the forum complaining about it.
>
> I don't follow the forums, sorry. But nobody else complained on the
> mailing list.

http://news.gmane.org/find-root.php?message_id=%3c4A37E889.8020009%40yahoo.de%3e

> xfwm 4.6 has seen releases since one year, so I ~guess~ it
> could have been known before���

Here's a thread in which you participated where the problem is
mentioned:

http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=524711

     Ordinary WM settings:
   
        1) Focus follows mouse: yes
        2) Automatically give focus to newly started applications: yes
        3) Automatically raise windows when they receive focus: no
        4) Raise on click: yes
   
     WM tweaks focus settings:
   
        5) Activate focus stealing prevention: yes
        6) Honour standard ICCCM focus hint: yes
   
     When I turn off 2), all new windows appear underneath, which is
     not what I want.

     
>> > and you didn't provide any indication on how to reproduce it.
>>
>> I wasn't aware anybody wanted to try.  So far, I haven't been
>> able to find out whether this is the intended behavior or not.
>>
>> What do you want to know?
>
> Which apps do that.

Pretty much all of them -- including settings dialogs and
programs started by panel plugins.  The only one I've found
that starts on top is Wireshark.  _Occasionally_ some will
start in front, but I haven't figured out how to duplicate it
other than it seems tha applications started from the command
line in a terminal window sometimes seem to start in front of
some windows.

Are there multiple discrete layers within which multiple
application windows can be ordered?

> I already told not to care about Terminal and Thunar,

AFAICT, it happens with pretty much everything regardless of
how it's started.  Most of my apps are started directly like
this:

[Desktop Entry]
Version=1.0
Type=Application
Encoding=UTF-8
Exec=aterm -T visi -n visi -e ssh shell.visi.com
StartupNotify=false
Terminal=false
Categories=X-Hosts;
OnlyShowIn=XFCE
Name=visi
Comment=ssh shell.visi.com

They start out on the bottom as do things started using
"exo-open".

> and some apps might have the same behaviour. But definitely
> the default behavior, with default config *is* correct. How do
> you start the apps and if you use startup notification.

No, I don't use startup notification -- at least not as far as
I know.

> Ho, and ranting on a mailing list (or worse, on a forum) won't
> lead you anywhere. If you have the strong feeling there's a
> bug somewhere, the correct place is bugzilla.xfce.org.

My apologies. I thought it had already been reported, but now I
realize that was a Debian bug I found, not an XFCE bug.

--
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow! !  Now I understand
                                  at               advanced MICROBIOLOGY and
                               visi.com            th' new TAX REFORM laws!!


_______________________________________________
Xfce mailing list
Xfce@...
http://foo-projects.org/mailman/listinfo/xfce
http://www.xfce.org

[Grant Edwards-6]

On 2009-06-17, g <gmeyer1de@...> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> sorry, i forgot i made a change to devilspie.
>
> diff src/actions.c ../devilspie-0.22_selbs/src/actions.c
> 556,557c556,557
><                         TRUE,
><                         my_wnck_atom_get ("_NET_WM_STATE_BELOW"),
> ---
> >                         FALSE,
> >                         my_wnck_atom_get ("_NET_WM_STATE_ABOVE"),
>
> It replaces the below-action with an unabove-action.
> This solves the panel problem. The other one i don't know about, because
> i don't use sensitive edges.

I think that's actually a symptom of the panels being beneath
the application windows.

> my .devilspie/all.ds is:
> (if
>    (and
>    (not is (window_name) "rootterm")
>    (not is (window_class) "Xfdesktop")
>    )
>         (begin
>              (above)
>              (below)
>         )
> )

Cool.  I'll try that.

--
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow! I'm rated PG-34!!
                                  at              
                               visi.com            

_______________________________________________
Xfce mailing list
Xfce@...
http://foo-projects.org/mailman/listinfo/xfce
http://www.xfce.org

[Grant Edwards-6]

On 2009-06-17, Yves-Alexis Perez <corsac@...> wrote:

> I don't follow the forums, sorry. But nobody else complained on the
> mailing list. xfwm 4.6 has seen releases since one year, so I ~guess~ it
> could have been known before���

Here's another user having the same problem:

http://beesbuzz.biz/blog/e/2009/05/01-ubuntu_904_jaunty_xfce_gripes.php

   So, on both my netbook and my work system I've updated to
   Ubuntu 9.04 as of a few days ago, and I have a few gripes
   about some of the changed packages. Actually, I think all of
   my gripes are about the current version of xfce:

   [...]
   
    * Why do new windows always pop up underneath existing
      windows? I always end up having to look at my taskbar to
      see if something actually happened as a result of my
      action (like opening the settings manager) and then click
      on it there to make it visible. Apparently the devs have
      a hard time understanding the issue, too.

   [...]

That last sentence has a link to the debian bug I linked to
earlier.
   
--
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow! I'm DESPONDENT ... I
                                  at               hope there's something
                               visi.com            DEEP-FRIED under this
                                                   miniature DOMED STADIUM ...


_______________________________________________
Xfce mailing list
Xfce@...
http://foo-projects.org/mailman/listinfo/xfce
http://www.xfce.org

[Grant Edwards-6]

On 2009-06-17, g <gmeyer1de@...> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> sorry, i forgot i made a change to devilspie.
>
> diff src/actions.c ../devilspie-0.22_selbs/src/actions.c
> 556,557c556,557
><                         TRUE,
><                         my_wnck_atom_get ("_NET_WM_STATE_BELOW"),
> ---
> >                         FALSE,
> >                         my_wnck_atom_get ("_NET_WM_STATE_ABOVE"),
>
> It replaces the below-action with an unabove-action.

Hooray! With that change, everything now works the way it used
to before the upgrade to 4.6.

I take it there are three discrete "layers" within which a
window can reside: "normal" "above" and "below"?  The panel
windows normally reside in the "above" layer, and
user-applications should be in the "normal" layer?

What we wanted was for new "application" windows to go
uppermost in the "normal" layer, but what my setup with the
un-patched devilspie was doing was putting them uppermost in
the "above" layer (which places them above the panel).  Right?

With your change, new windows are first raised to the top of
the "above" layer, and then dropped down to the "normal" layer
where they end up on top of all the other "normal" layer
windows?

Might it make a bit more sense to add a new "raise" action-atom
that does what we want rather than changing the meaning of the
"below" action?

--
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow! Are we wet yet?
                                  at              
                               visi.com            

_______________________________________________
Xfce mailing list
Xfce@...
http://foo-projects.org/mailman/listinfo/xfce
http://www.xfce.org

[Yves-Alexis Perez-2]

On mer, 2009-06-17 at 21:23 +0000, Grant Edwards wrote:
>      When I turn off 2), all new windows appear underneath, which is
>      not what I want.

Here, when turning that off, all new windows appear underneath *the
current focused and raised* window. Not underneath other windows. Which
is different (but might be tricky when one window is maximized). Again,
the correct place is bugzilla.xfce.org where you'll have a place to
explain exactly what you want to xfwm developer (which is way more
knowledgeable about window management than me)

Cheers,
--
Yves-Alexis


_______________________________________________
Xfce mailing list
Xfce@...
http://foo-projects.org/mailman/listinfo/xfce
http://www.xfce.org

[g-29]

On Thursday 18 June 2009 07:59:30 xfce-request@... wrote:
 > Might it make a bit more sense to add a new "raise" action-atom
 > that does what we want rather than changing the meaning of the
 > "below" action?

Well,

i tried to, but ....
I filed a feature request for that at the devilspie site. Perhaps it
will get implemented.

Guido
_______________________________________________
Xfce mailing list
Xfce@...
http://foo-projects.org/mailman/listinfo/xfce
http://www.xfce.org

[Grant Edwards-6]

On 2009-06-18, Yves-Alexis Perez <corsac@...> wrote:

> On mer, 2009-06-17 at 21:23 +0000, Grant Edwards wrote:
>>      When I turn off 2), all new windows appear underneath, which is
>>      not what I want.
>
> Here, when turning that off, all new windows appear underneath *the
> current focused and raised* window. Not underneath other windows. Which
> is different (but might be tricky when one window is maximized). Again,
> the correct place is bugzilla.xfce.org where you'll have a place to
> explain exactly what you want to xfwm developer (which is way more
> knowledgeable about window management than me)

So I filed a bug.  A number of other people have also
complained about the same problem.  We've all been told that we
are "wrong", the old behavior was "wrong", all other window
managers are "wrong" (and have been for 20 years) -- that
staring new windows on top doesn't "make sense".

We're told that the new behavior (starting all new windows on
the bottom of the stack instead of the top) is "right", and we
better just shut up and be happy while the change is shoved
down our throats.

--
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow! Hey, wait
                                  at               a minute!!  I want a
                               visi.com            divorce!! ... you're not
                                                   Clint Eastwood!!

_______________________________________________
Xfce mailing list
Xfce@...
http://foo-projects.org/mailman/listinfo/xfce
http://www.xfce.org

[Brian J. Tarricone-3]

On 2009/07/08 14:16, Grant Edwards wrote:
>
> We're told that the new behavior (starting all new windows on
> the bottom of the stack instead of the top) is "right", and we
> better just shut up and be happy while the change is shoved
> down our throats.

Calm yourself.  I don't experience the problem you see.  Aside from a
couple broken apps that don't handle focus stealing prevention properly,
all my apps start focused, on the top of the stack.  If I disable focus
stealing prevention, even those broken apps appear on the top of the
stack, focused.

Regardless, you've based your little rant on your own misconceptions and
on information from people who do NOT work on the window manager.  If
there's actually a problem, Olivier will fix it, or will at least
explain why he's not going to fix it, and will likely try to help you
make your setup work to your liking.  (I believe he's in the process of
moving to a different country, which is probably why he's been silent
lately.  Although, to be honest, with how whiny this thread has been,
I'd understand if he'd just ignore it.)

I'm not sure what you're so worked up about.  If you're unhappy with
xfwm4, use a different window manager, or revert to an older version
that worked the way you want it to.  No need to get all up in arms about
it.  It's just a piece of software.

        -brian
_______________________________________________
Xfce mailing list
Xfce@...
http://foo-projects.org/mailman/listinfo/xfce
http://www.xfce.org

[g-29]

Hi,

> I don't experience the problem you see.  Aside from a
> couple broken apps that don't handle focus stealing prevention
> properly, all my apps start focused, on the top of the stack.

i think you missed the point. The point is starting windows *unfocused*
on *top*. This is useful for windows you just look at, like a latex
compilation window or an image viewer which shows you a svg generated by
gnuplot.

Guido
_______________________________________________
Xfce mailing list
Xfce@...
http://foo-projects.org/mailman/listinfo/xfce
http://www.xfce.org

On Wed, 08 Jul 2009 15:29:09 -0700
"Brian J. Tarricone" <brian@...> wrote:

> Calm yourself.  I don't experience the problem you see.  Aside from a
> couple broken apps that don't handle focus stealing prevention
> properly, all my apps start focused, on the top of the stack.  If I
> disable focus stealing prevention, even those broken apps appear on the
> top of the stack, focused.

Just my $.02. Seeing all the fuss about the 4.6 strain of xfce, I had
decided to wait. A couple of days ago, I decided to (finally) change my
system to 64 bits and installed Slackware64 12.2. I didn't realize it had
xfce 4.6.1 in the package, so it got installed 'by accident'.

Large was my surprise that, apart from the missing menu editor, which I
do consider an important negative, everything else works just as before!
No problems at all with focusing, window order, or anything else. I
compiled some of the goodies I had before and that also went without a
hitch. I'm sure I'm not an exception...

John
_______________________________________________
Xfce mailing list
Xfce@...
http://foo-projects.org/mailman/listinfo/xfce
http://www.xfce.org

[Olivier Fourdan-3]

On Wed, Jul 8, 2009 at 10:16 PM, Grant Edwards<grant.b.edwards@...> wrote:
[...]

> So I filed a bug.  A number of other people have also
> complained about the same problem.  We've all been told that we
> are "wrong", the old behavior was "wrong", all other window
> managers are "wrong" (and have been for 20 years) -- that
> staring new windows on top doesn't "make sense".
>
> We're told that the new behavior (starting all new windows on
> the bottom of the stack instead of the top) is "right", and we
> better just shut up and be happy while the change is shoved
> down our throats.

Why don't you point the bug, And let people judge by themselves?

    http://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5479


And I can repeast it, covering the focused window with an unfocused
one does not make sense from a usability stand.

No matter that you'been using window managers for 20 years, tell me a
single reason why covering the focused window with an unfocused one is
a desirable behaviour.

Stop ranting and be _factual_

Cheers,
Olivier.
_______________________________________________
Xfce mailing list
Xfce@...
http://foo-projects.org/mailman/listinfo/xfce
http://www.xfce.org

[Mike McNally-3]

> No matter that you'been using window managers for 20 years, tell me a
> single reason why covering the focused window with an unfocused one is
> a desirable behaviour.

Well this isn't really my argument, but (heightened emotions aside)
I'm somewhat sensitive to this as well.  I always use "focus follows
pointer" behavior, and I do a lot of typing in xterms.

Here's a concrete example: I want to open up my X server so that I can
run from a remote machine (via SSH and port forwarding) some X
application. To see if things are working, from a local terminal
window I ssh to the remote machine, set DISPLAY, and run "xlogo."
Now, as soon as I see that xlogo window, I know it works, and I want
to hit ^C in my terminal window.

If I give new windows focus, well now I see my "xlogo" but I have to
re-focus in my xterm window in order to get rid of it. (Well I guess I
could mouse to it and click it's titlebar "X" but that'd be even
harder).  If I don't give new windows focus, then I don't see my xlogo
at all unless I go hunting for it.

For those who use focus follows pointer, semantics of window focus and
occlusion really are different I think than for people who like
click-to-focus (and, shudder, auto-raise :-)

Hopefully that did not sound like a rant, because I'm very calm and
happy at the moment.



--
Turtle, turtle, on the ground,
Pink and shiny, turn around.
_______________________________________________
Xfce mailing list
Xfce@...
http://foo-projects.org/mailman/listinfo/xfce
http://www.xfce.org

[Net Llama!]

I just got afflicted by this after upgrading from Fedora10 to 11.  I
can't quite figure out from the thread below who is advocating what,
however I find it very annoying that new windows now appear
*under*/behind pre-existing windows.

On Thu, Jul 9, 2009 at 10:57 AM, Olivier Fourdan<fourdan@...> wrote:

> On Wed, Jul 8, 2009 at 10:16 PM, Grant Edwards<grant.b.edwards@...> wrote:
> [...]
>
>> So I filed a bug.  A number of other people have also
>> complained about the same problem.  We've all been told that we
>> are "wrong", the old behavior was "wrong", all other window
>> managers are "wrong" (and have been for 20 years) -- that
>> staring new windows on top doesn't "make sense".
>>
>> We're told that the new behavior (starting all new windows on
>> the bottom of the stack instead of the top) is "right", and we
>> better just shut up and be happy while the change is shoved
>> down our throats.
>
> Why don't you point the bug, And let people judge by themselves?
>
>    http://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5479
>
>
> And I can repeast it, covering the focused window with an unfocused
> one does not make sense from a usability stand.
>
> No matter that you'been using window managers for 20 years, tell me a
> single reason why covering the focused window with an unfocused one is
> a desirable behaviour.
>
> Stop ranting and be _factual_

--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
L. Friedman                                    netllama@...
LlamaLand                       https://netllama.linux-sxs.org
_______________________________________________
Xfce mailing list
Xfce@...
http://foo-projects.org/mailman/listinfo/xfce
http://www.xfce.org

[Brian J. Tarricone-3]

On 2009/07/09 11:12, Mike McNally wrote:

>
> Here's a concrete example: I want to open up my X server so that I can
> run from a remote machine (via SSH and port forwarding) some X
> application. To see if things are working, from a local terminal
> window I ssh to the remote machine, set DISPLAY, and run "xlogo."
> Now, as soon as I see that xlogo window, I know it works, and I want
> to hit ^C in my terminal window.
>
> If I give new windows focus, well now I see my "xlogo" but I have to
> re-focus in my xterm window in order to get rid of it. (Well I guess I
> could mouse to it and click it's titlebar "X" but that'd be even
> harder).  If I don't give new windows focus, then I don't see my xlogo
> at all unless I go hunting for it.

Wouldn't this set of conditions work?

1.  New windows in focus-follows-mouse aren't raised all the way, but
are placed in the stacking order directly underneath the focused window.

2.  With smart placement enabled, the new window will most likely be
placed in a way such that it is not obscured (or at least not completely
obscured) by the focused window that's on top.

I don't use focus-follows-mouse, but I'd be surprised if it doesn't
already work like that...

Of course that isn't perfect... if the focused window is maximized to
the screen size, you won't see the new window.

        -brian
_______________________________________________
Xfce mailing list
Xfce@...
http://foo-projects.org/mailman/listinfo/xfce
http://www.xfce.org

[Mike McNally-3]

> Wouldn't this set of conditions work?
>
> 1.  New windows in focus-follows-mouse aren't raised all the way, but are
> placed in the stacking order directly underneath the focused window.

Well, for my purposes, no that wouldn't work.  When I run a command
from a terminal, and I know that command launches a new window, I
definitely want to see the window. I do a lot of work on a netbook
(small screen), and even on bigger screens I tend to have crowded
workspaces (example: terminal window with tail -f on a log file from a
web application; browser window testing site; terminal for commands
and builds etc).

This is my preference out of many years of habit. I don't insist
anybody cater to my personal needs, of course, but I don't think it's
really that weird.

I've written lots of throwaway GUI applications that show something in
a window but take all their input from a console.  For such a case,
again, I definitely want my console (xterm) command to launch that
window such that I can see it, but I also want to keep typing in my
xterm.  Another thing: I  don't necessarily raise my xterms when I
type in them - I may want to type a command in a window but keep
another window in front, because what I'm typing may affect it.

Smart placement isn't really a solution, again, because my workspaces
are crowded.



--
Turtle, turtle, on the ground,
Pink and shiny, turn around.
_______________________________________________
Xfce mailing list
Xfce@...
http://foo-projects.org/mailman/listinfo/xfce
http://www.xfce.org

[Chris G-6]

On Thu, Jul 09, 2009 at 02:10:07PM -0500, Mike McNally wrote:

> > Wouldn't this set of conditions work?
> >
> > 1.  New windows in focus-follows-mouse aren't raised all the way, but are
> > placed in the stacking order directly underneath the focused window.
>
> Well, for my purposes, no that wouldn't work.  When I run a command
> from a terminal, and I know that command launches a new window, I
> definitely want to see the window. I do a lot of work on a netbook
> (small screen), and even on bigger screens I tend to have crowded
> workspaces (example: terminal window with tail -f on a log file from a
> web application; browser window testing site; terminal for commands
> and builds etc).
>
> This is my preference out of many years of habit. I don't insist
> anybody cater to my personal needs, of course, but I don't think it's
> really that weird.
>
> I've written lots of throwaway GUI applications that show something in
> a window but take all their input from a console.  For such a case,
> again, I definitely want my console (xterm) command to launch that
> window such that I can see it, but I also want to keep typing in my
> xterm.  Another thing: I  don't necessarily raise my xterms when I
> type in them - I may want to type a command in a window but keep
> another window in front, because what I'm typing may affect it.
>

That sounds very much what I want from a Window Manager/GUI.  I very
often type into a terminal window which is underneath another window
where I am seeing what results from the typing.  If the cursor is on
the terminal window I want it to keep focus but I also want another
window to be able to overlay parts of that terminal window.

--
Chris Green

_______________________________________________
Xfce mailing list
Xfce@...
http://foo-projects.org/mailman/listinfo/xfce
http://www.xfce.org

[Olivier Fourdan-3]

On Thu, Jul 9, 2009 at 8:10 PM, Mike McNally<emmecinque@...> wrote:
[...]
> I've written lots of throwaway GUI applications that show something in
> a window but take all their input from a console.  For such a case,
> again, I definitely want my console (xterm) command to launch that
> window such that I can see it, but I also want to keep typing in my
> xterm.  Another thing: I  don't necessarily raise my xterms when I
> type in them - I may want to type a command in a window but keep
> another window in front, because what I'm typing may affect it.

But that's still a corner case. Turn it this way, if you have to
choose between the two possibilities:

a. Obscure the focused terminal where you are entering data with the
output window (unfocused)

b. Keep the focused window above the unfocused window, so you can see
the data you enter

What is the most sensitive choice? What do you think the vast majority
of users would expect?

Cheers,
Olivier.
_______________________________________________
Xfce mailing list
Xfce@...
http://foo-projects.org/mailman/listinfo/xfce
http://www.xfce.org

[Chris G-6]

On Thu, Jul 09, 2009 at 08:48:47PM +0100, Olivier Fourdan wrote:

> On Thu, Jul 9, 2009 at 8:10 PM, Mike McNally<emmecinque@...> wrote:
> [...]
> > I've written lots of throwaway GUI applications that show something in
> > a window but take all their input from a console.  For such a case,
> > again, I definitely want my console (xterm) command to launch that
> > window such that I can see it, but I also want to keep typing in my
> > xterm.  Another thing: I  don't necessarily raise my xterms when I
> > type in them - I may want to type a command in a window but keep
> > another window in front, because what I'm typing may affect it.
>
> But that's still a corner case. Turn it this way, if you have to
> choose between the two possibilities:
>
> a. Obscure the focused terminal where you are entering data with the
> output window (unfocused)
>
> b. Keep the focused window above the unfocused window, so you can see
> the data you enter
>
> What is the most sensitive choice? What do you think the vast majority
> of users would expect?
>

Neither!  :-)

Open the other window overlapping but *not* totally obscuring the
terminal window where you are typing.  The terminal window retains
focus because the cursor is positioned over the still visible part of
the terminal window,

--
Chris Green

_______________________________________________
Xfce mailing list
Xfce@...
http://foo-projects.org/mailman/listinfo/xfce
http://www.xfce.org

[Brian J. Tarricone-3]

On 2009/07/09 12:10, Mike McNally wrote:

> I've written lots of throwaway GUI applications that show something in
> a window but take all their input from a console.  For such a case,
> again, I definitely want my console (xterm) command to launch that
> window such that I can see it, but I also want to keep typing in my
> xterm.

Then you're doing it wrong.  If you want it to work this way, you make
the terminal window the transient parent of the GUI window.  Most WMs
will always keep windows above their transient parents.  (That may be a
slight abuse of the transient property, but it's more reasonable and
reliable than just expecting/hoping it to work.)

Of course, you can rely on the behavior of one WM (which may change) to
achieve this effect, but that's pretty fragile.  Maybe you don't care
for a throwaway app, but it's still best not to rely on behavior like
that not changing.

        -brian
_______________________________________________
Xfce mailing list
Xfce@...
http://foo-projects.org/mailman/listinfo/xfce
http://www.xfce.org

[Brian J. Tarricone-3]

On 2009/07/09 13:00, Chris G wrote:

> On Thu, Jul 09, 2009 at 08:48:47PM +0100, Olivier Fourdan wrote:
>> On Thu, Jul 9, 2009 at 8:10 PM, Mike McNally<emmecinque@...>  wrote:
>> [...]
>>> I've written lots of throwaway GUI applications that show something in
>>> a window but take all their input from a console.  For such a case,
>>> again, I definitely want my console (xterm) command to launch that
>>> window such that I can see it, but I also want to keep typing in my
>>> xterm.  Another thing: I  don't necessarily raise my xterms when I
>>> type in them - I may want to type a command in a window but keep
>>> another window in front, because what I'm typing may affect it.
>> But that's still a corner case. Turn it this way, if you have to
>> choose between the two possibilities:
>>
>> a. Obscure the focused terminal where you are entering data with the
>> output window (unfocused)
>>
>> b. Keep the focused window above the unfocused window, so you can see
>> the data you enter
>>
>> What is the most sensitive choice? What do you think the vast majority
>> of users would expect?
>>
> Neither!  :-)
>
> Open the other window overlapping but *not* totally obscuring the
> terminal window where you are typing.  The terminal window retains
> focus because the cursor is positioned over the still visible part of
> the terminal window,

That effectively reduces to (a).  You can't guarantee that there will be
room to open the other window overlapping but not totally obscuring
(what if the window opens maximized, or just takes up too much room).
So what do you do then?  Completely obscure the focused window?  Well,
then, now your new window is focused anyway because the mouse is
probably over it now.

And what happens when the new window is large enough that there's no way
to place it without putting a part of it under the mouse cursor?  So the
new window will get focus anyway and you're stuck moving your mouse back
to the other window.

On a side note (please bear with me; I don't use focus-follows-mouse, so
I'm not familiar with all the various behaviors), xfwm4 does have a
"raise new windows" option.  Doesn't turning that on/off do what you'd
expect, even if you're using focus-follows-mouse?  Or does turning that
on also focus it?

        -brian
_______________________________________________
Xfce mailing list
Xfce@...
http://foo-projects.org/mailman/listinfo/xfce
http://www.xfce.org