About Gtranslator 2.0

[Pablo Sanxiao]

Hi all,

These last weeks I have been off for several reasons (sorry for that),
but now I'm taking up again the project.

Last months a great work was made by many people, Nacho, Sean, Baris and
all the people that reported bugs, sent patches and tested the programm.
Thanks to everyone.

Now gtranslator 2.0 is almost ready to be released. Next days I'm trying
to fix a couple of bugs and then make the release. I will keep you
up-to-date. We have to upload the new web page, I know, sorry for the
delay.

Finally the new version will not change its name. Many people in the
past GUADEC said that gtranslator is a perfect name. Besides, I talked
to Fatih Demir and he said me that keep the name would be great. I would
like to say thank you to people that suggest names for the new version.
Those suggestions will be in the wiki, and maybe in the future could be
used. GNOME 3, who knows...

Thanks,
--
Pablo

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[Leonardo Ferreira Fontenelle]

Em Seg, 2008-12-22 às 17:59 +0100, Pablo Sanxiao escreveu:
> Hi all, [...]
>
> Now gtranslator 2.0 is almost ready to be released. Next days I'm trying
> to fix a couple of bugs and then make the release. I will keep you
> up-to-date. We have to upload the new web page, I know, sorry for the
> delay.
>
> [...]

I just tested and translated Gtranslator almost-2.0.

I'll fill some (minor) bug reports, but there are two suggestions that I
believe we'd better discuss at the mailing list.

The first suggestion is about the keyboard navigation:

1. I think Alt+Home and Alt+End could be used as shortcuts for the first
and the last translation. They are probably not going to be used often,
but AFAIK they don't interfere with anything, and they make a lot of
sense when we consider Alt+Left and Alt+Right navigate to the previous
and the next messages.

2. I'll probably translate one file at a time, but for people editing
multiple messages catalogs, I couldn't find the correct shortcuts to
navigate between tabs. I suggest Ctrl+PgDown and Ctrl+PgUp (with Shift
as well for bonus points), and Alt+1, Alt+2 etc. should have their usual
role in keyboard navigation between tabs. Yes, I know that colides with
other shortcuts; that leads us to my favorite enhancement suggestion for
this email:

3. I believe there's little benefit in sepparating untranslated and
fuzzy messages when navigating. So, instead of having shortcuts for
next/previous untranslated, next/previous fuzzy, and next/previous
untranslated+fuzzy, I believe we should be good with simply
next/previous untranslated+fuzzy; the shortcut could be Alt+PgDown and
Alt+PgUp. That should cut down the number of commands the user has to
learn, and we can optionally shrink the _Go menu as well.

So, keyboard navigation between messages would be done with Alt+(←|→|
Home|End|Page_Down|Page_Up), and navigation between message catalogs
would be done with Control+(Page_Down|Page_Up) (with Shift to move the
tabs in the notebook). What do you think?

--
Leonardo Fontenelle
http://leonardof.org

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[Leonardo Ferreira Fontenelle]

Em Seg, 2008-12-22 às 17:59 +0100, Pablo Sanxiao escreveu:
> Hi all, [...]
>
> Now gtranslator 2.0 is almost ready to be released. Next days I'm trying
> to fix a couple of bugs and then make the release. I will keep you
> up-to-date. We have to upload the new web page, I know, sorry for the
> delay.
>
> [...]

The other suggestion I'd like to discuss in the mailing list is
simplifying Gtranslator messages table to make the application need less
screen area.

AFAIK, the ID column is useful for two things: sorting by ID (which is
default, but you can sort by the other columns as well) and the "Go to"
feature. But does anyone need messages to be sorted by any order except
for by ID? Honestly, I find that sorting by status is the most
disturbing "feature" in poEdit, and I don't need messages to be sorted
by alphabetical order because I can use the search dialog to find
whatever I want. So, I believe we could simply hide the ID column and
make the messages list always sorted by ID.

Making that would impair us from using the "Go to" feature. But using
the ID to go to a message translation is a little strange, because this
ID number is not the line number in the message catalog or in the source
code, and can change if the message catalog is updated with a new POT
file. So, the "Go to" feature could be replaced by some bookmark system.

The status column could be less wide if it didn't have any column
heading. The "Status" word, in most languages, is wider than the status
icons. I not sure the meaning of the icons would be evident without the
"status" heading, though.

--
Leonardo Fontenelle
http://leonardof.org

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[Pablo Sanxiao]

2008/12/27 Leonardo F. Fontenelle <leonardof@...>:

> Em Seg, 2008-12-22 às 17:59 +0100, Pablo Sanxiao escreveu:
>> Hi all, [...]
>>
>> Now gtranslator 2.0 is almost ready to be released. Next days I'm trying
>> to fix a couple of bugs and then make the release. I will keep you
>> up-to-date. We have to upload the new web page, I know, sorry for the
>> delay.
>>
>> [...]
>
> I just tested and translated Gtranslator almost-2.0.
>
> I'll fill some (minor) bug reports, but there are two suggestions that I
> believe we'd better discuss at the mailing list.
>
> The first suggestion is about the keyboard navigation:
>
> 1. I think Alt+Home and Alt+End could be used as shortcuts for the first
> and the last translation. They are probably not going to be used often,
> but AFAIK they don't interfere with anything, and they make a lot of
> sense when we consider Alt+Left and Alt+Right navigate to the previous
> and the next messages.
>

Yeah, I think that could be useful.

> 2. I'll probably translate one file at a time, but for people editing
> multiple messages catalogs, I couldn't find the correct shortcuts to
> navigate between tabs. I suggest Ctrl+PgDown and Ctrl+PgUp (with Shift
> as well for bonus points), and Alt+1, Alt+2 etc. should have their usual
> role in keyboard navigation between tabs. Yes, I know that colides with
> other shortcuts; that leads us to my favorite enhancement suggestion for
> this email:
>
The shortcuts seems to be a controversial topic. Many programs in
GNOME have tabs and they use different shortcuts for navigation among
them. For example, gedit use Ctrl+Alt+PgDown/Up, nautilus use just
Ctrl+Down/Up. I think that would have a consensus about that. I agree
with using Ctrl+PgDown/Up

> 3. I believe there's little benefit in sepparating untranslated and
> fuzzy messages when navigating. So, instead of having shortcuts for
> next/previous untranslated, next/previous fuzzy, and next/previous
> untranslated+fuzzy, I believe we should be good with simply
> next/previous untranslated+fuzzy; the shortcut could be Alt+PgDown and
> Alt+PgUp. That should cut down the number of commands the user has to
> learn, and we can optionally shrink the _Go menu as well.
>
I think that we could join fuzzy and untranslated,  it makes sense.
Another idea would be having a list of modified messages and go to
nex/last modified message as Baris suggested in this bug report:
http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=552720
What do you think about?

> So, keyboard navigation between messages would be done with Alt+(←|→|
> Home|End|Page_Down|Page_Up), and navigation between message catalogs
> would be done with Control+(Page_Down|Page_Up) (with Shift to move the
> tabs in the notebook). What do you think?
>
> --
> Leonardo Fontenelle
> http://leonardof.org
>
>

Regards,
--
Pablo Sanxiao
http://psanxiao.blogspot.com
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[Pablo Sanxiao]

2008/12/27 Leonardo F. Fontenelle <leonardof@...>:

> Em Seg, 2008-12-22 às 17:59 +0100, Pablo Sanxiao escreveu:
>> Hi all, [...]
>>
>> Now gtranslator 2.0 is almost ready to be released. Next days I'm trying
>> to fix a couple of bugs and then make the release. I will keep you
>> up-to-date. We have to upload the new web page, I know, sorry for the
>> delay.
>>
>> [...]
>
> The other suggestion I'd like to discuss in the mailing list is
> simplifying Gtranslator messages table to make the application need less
> screen area.
>
> AFAIK, the ID column is useful for two things: sorting by ID (which is
> default, but you can sort by the other columns as well) and the "Go to"
> feature. But does anyone need messages to be sorted by any order except
> for by ID? Honestly, I find that sorting by status is the most
> disturbing "feature" in poEdit, and I don't need messages to be sorted
> by alphabetical order because I can use the search dialog to find
> whatever I want. So, I believe we could simply hide the ID column and
> make the messages list always sorted by ID.
>

IMHO order by status can be very useful. If you're going to translate
a PO file that is translated to 90%, for instance, I think would be
very useful to have all the unstranslated messages at the beginning.

> Making that would impair us from using the "Go to" feature. But using
> the ID to go to a message translation is a little strange, because this
> ID number is not the line number in the message catalog or in the source
> code, and can change if the message catalog is updated with a new POT
> file. So, the "Go to" feature could be replaced by some bookmark system.
>
Bookmarks would be a very appreciate feature. We have to think how to
implement it but not for the 2.0 version.
I think we have to focus in making stable and free of bugs (if this is
really possible) ;-) the current features. The "Go to" can be useful
for now, if you remember the ID of the message :-/

> The status column could be less wide if it didn't have any column
> heading. The "Status" word, in most languages, is wider than the status
> icons. I not sure the meaning of the icons would be evident without the
> "status" heading, though.
>
Maybe if we could get another icons more descriptive we could remove
the "Status" word of the header, but with the current ones I think
it's necessary to keep "Status"

Regards,
--
Pablo Sanxiao
http://psanxiao.blogspot.com
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[Leonardo Ferreira Fontenelle]

Em Ter, 2008-12-30 às 12:46 +0100, Pablo Sanxiao escreveu:
> The shortcuts seems to be a controversial topic. Many programs in
> GNOME have tabs and they use different shortcuts for navigation among
> them. For example, gedit use Ctrl+Alt+PgDown/Up, nautilus use just
> Ctrl+Down/Up. I think that would have a consensus about that. I agree
> with using Ctrl+PgDown/Up
>
I didn't even know about Control+Alt+PageDown|Up in Gedit; I thought Alt
+# was the only way. But I believe Gedit is the only exception; in
Epiphany, for instance, tabs behave as in Nautilus.

> > 3. I believe there's little benefit in sepparating untranslated and
> > fuzzy messages when navigating. So, instead of having shortcuts for
> > next/previous untranslated, next/previous fuzzy, and next/previous
> > untranslated+fuzzy, I believe we should be good with simply
> > next/previous untranslated+fuzzy; the shortcut could be Alt+PgDown and
> > Alt+PgUp. That should cut down the number of commands the user has to
> > learn, and we can optionally shrink the _Go menu as well.
> >
> I think that we could join fuzzy and untranslated,  it makes sense.
> Another idea would be having a list of modified messages and go to
> nex/last modified message as Baris suggested in this bug report:
> http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=552720
> What do you think about?
>

I'm not sure how much useful it would be to have a "history navigation".
I mean, that would be useful, but then you'll have the learning curve
(most people won't suspect the feature unless they explore the menus or
they are told about it), and the increasing number of keyboard
shortcuts.

Maybe a good search, infinite undo/redo, and bookmarking would reduce
the need for a history navigation.

--
Leonardo Fontenelle
http://leonardof.org

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[Leonardo Ferreira Fontenelle]

Em Ter, 2008-12-30 às 13:02 +0100, Pablo Sanxiao escreveu:
> IMHO order by status can be very useful. If you're going to translate
> a PO file that is translated to 90%, for instance, I think would be
> very useful to have all the untranslated messages at the beginning.
>

IIRC poEdit likes to sort messages by status. That makes it harder for
me to understand what do the messages mean, because we lose some
context. For instance, the label of a menu item or button usually comes
near its tooltip, and so do the short and the long descriptions of a
gconf pair. Besides, when you translate a message its status is changed,
and so does the place (in the list) where it belongs. That's why I'd
rather have messages sorted by ID, and then navigate through them with a
"next untranslated/fuzzy" shortcut.

> Bookmarks would be a very appreciate feature. We have to think how to
> implement it but not for the 2.0 version.
> I think we have to focus in making stable and free of bugs (if this is
> really possible) ;-) the current features. The "Go to" can be useful
> for now, if you remember the ID of the message :-/
>
Couldn't agree more.

> Maybe if we could get another icons more descriptive we could remove
> the "Status" word of the header, but with the current ones I think
> it's necessary to keep "Status"
>
Again, I agree.

--
Leonardo Fontenelle
http://leonardof.org

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[Pablo Sanxiao]

> I didn't even know about Control+Alt+PageDown|Up in Gedit; I thought Alt
> +# was the only way. But I believe Gedit is the only exception; in
> Epiphany, for instance, tabs behave as in Nautilus.
>
I have just upload to trunk in svn a patch with new actions in order
to navigate among tabs using control+Page_Down/Page_Up as shortcuts.
I've also added the shortcuts Alt+Home/End to Go First/Last message in
the Po file.

>> > 3. I believe there's little benefit in sepparating untranslated and
>> > fuzzy messages when navigating. So, instead of having shortcuts for
>> > next/previous untranslated, next/previous fuzzy, and next/previous
>> > untranslated+fuzzy, I believe we should be good with simply
>> > next/previous untranslated+fuzzy; the shortcut could be Alt+PgDown and
>> > Alt+PgUp. That should cut down the number of commands the user has to
>> > learn, and we can optionally shrink the _Go menu as well.
>> >
I agree with Leonardo about joining Go N/P Fuzzy and Go N/P
untranslated in one action but I would like to hear more opinions
before doing the change. Does anyone find very useful to keep
separated these actions?

My best wishes for 2009
--
Pablo Sanxiao
http://psanxiao.blogspot.com
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[Vladimer Sichinava-3]

Hello All,


Are there some news about upcoming GTranslator 2.0 ?
Are we in BETA state ?

Merry Orthodox Christmas Dear People! ;)
 

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[Vladimer Sichinava-3]

Hello again,


I'm trying to compile gtranslator from svn.
I've already installed:

gconf2-devel gtkspell-devel gtksourceview18-devel gtk2-devel
glib2-devel libsoup-devel gucharmap-devel libglade2-devel gdl-devel
db43-devel make gcc gnome-common autoconf automake libtool intltool
gtk-doc gnome-doc-utils-devel libgtksourceviewmm-2_0-devel db43-devel

my configure error is:

checking for Berkeley DB >= 4.3... not found
configure: error: Cannot find Berkeley DB >= 4.3

But Berkley DB is already installed on my system:

alinux@OpenSuSE:~/Documents/l10n.gnome.org/extra/gtranslator> zypper search db43

S | Nome                 | Sommario
            | Tipo
--+----------------------+---------------------------------------------------------+--------------
i | db43                 | Berkeley DB Database Library
            | pacchetto
i | db43-devel           | Include Files and Libraries for the
Berkeley DB library | pacchetto

So I can't understand where the problem is ? :(

I'm using opensuse 11.1.

Thanks!

Best Wishes,

Vladimer
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[Pablo Sanxiao]

I've tested gtranslator (svn version) in OpenSuSe 11 and I had
to install the package libdb-4_4-devel.

Regards,
--
Pablo

On Mér, 2009-01-07 at 01:36 +0100, Vladimer Sichinava wrote:

> Hello again,
>
>
> I'm trying to compile gtranslator from svn.
> I've already installed:
>
> gconf2-devel gtkspell-devel gtksourceview18-devel gtk2-devel
> glib2-devel libsoup-devel gucharmap-devel libglade2-devel gdl-devel
> db43-devel make gcc gnome-common autoconf automake libtool intltool
> gtk-doc gnome-doc-utils-devel libgtksourceviewmm-2_0-devel db43-devel
>
> my configure error is:
>
> checking for Berkeley DB >= 4.3... not found
> configure: error: Cannot find Berkeley DB >= 4.3
>
> But Berkley DB is already installed on my system:
>
> alinux@OpenSuSE:~/Documents/l10n.gnome.org/extra/gtranslator> zypper search db43
>
> S | Nome                 | Sommario
>             | Tipo
> --+----------------------+---------------------------------------------------------+--------------
> i | db43                 | Berkeley DB Database Library
>             | pacchetto
> i | db43-devel           | Include Files and Libraries for the
> Berkeley DB library | pacchetto
>
> So I can't understand where the problem is ? :(
>
> I'm using opensuse 11.1.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Best Wishes,
>
> Vladimer

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