Administrator account 6 vs 7

[adept digital evolution]

On 08-26-2009 8:43 PM, Shai Gluskin wrote, in a message entitled "Re:
[documentation] info needed for installation guide":

>
> Whoa... I hadn't noticed the new *role* that comes *pre-configured*,
> the "Administrator." (Not sure if this is in the "minimal" install or
> not).
>
> Here is the thread in the queue that created it:
> http://drupal.org/node/480660
>
> This administrator role is different from "user/1 that you create when
> you install the site and who is still the "super-user." Not sure if
> the initial help-text still refers to user/1 as an "administrative
> account" which would be a bad idea with the new pre-installed
> "administrator" *role*. User/1 should be referred to as "Super-user"
> which doesn't have that "admin" sound in it all.

Thanks again for pointing out that change, Shai (and others who posted
to that other thread).


I think it is !!!extremely unfortunate!!! that the label selected for
the super-user name & pw during installation was "Administrator" which
is the same word used for a different preconfigured role. Imagine the
confusion a user experiences when they up an Administrator account
during the installation, only to discover that this account is NOT
assigned to the Administrator ROLE on the "People" page.

Imagine how difficult to explain the distinction in docs when two
different types of accounts have been given the same name.

**Is it too late to change the labeling of the input fields on the
"Configure site" installation page to say "Super-User"?**

I hope not.

Meanwhile, I would very much appreciate some feedback on this paragraph
that I typed up on http://drupal.org/node/540246 (under "6. Configure
site"). I'm not sure it this list is configured to accept rich text so I
am putting slashes around any /italics/ (which might convert the
rendering to italics depending on your email client) where I used
italics the bullet-point paragraph in question:

<<
Under /Administrator account/ (Drupal 7), enter a user name, email
address and password for logging into your site as the overall Drupal
administrator. Note that there is a distinction, as of Drupal 7, between
the /Drupal administrator/ that you set up on this page, and the
"Administrator" /site administrator/ role that you will see when you
visit the "Roles" and "Permissions" pages in the administration
interface. The account you set up in the "Administrator" fields during
installation is a super-user (who will be "/user/1", for those of you
familiar with that account from earlier versions of Drupal) who has
overall control over every aspect of the management and configuration of
the site.
 >>


Is that accurate and clear? Thanks.

kazar

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[David Rothstein-2]

On Sat, Sep 5, 2009 at 4:22 AM, adept digital evolution <techlists@...> wrote:

I think it is !!!extremely unfortunate!!! that the label selected for the super-user name & pw during installation was "Administrator" which is the same word used for a different preconfigured role. Imagine the confusion a user experiences when they up an Administrator account during the installation, only to discover that this account is NOT assigned to the Administrator ROLE on the "People" page.

Imagine how difficult to explain the distinction in docs when two different types of accounts have been given the same name.

**Is it too late to change the labeling of the input fields on the "Configure site" installation page to say "Super-User"?**

I agree that this is very confusing.  I brought up this usability problem at the time at http://drupal.org/node/480660 (also see http://drupal.org/node/497500), but it never came to a full resolution.

It definitely isn't too late to get a fix like the one you're suggesting into Drupal 7.  The upcoming code freeze is only for changes that would add major new features and functionality; small usability improvements and changes to the user interface text can go on for quite a bit longer (see http://buytaert.net/drupal-7-code-freeze-almost-upon-us).  I suggest that you create a new bug report for this issue, tag it "Usability", and cross-link it from the original issue so people can find it.

David Rothstein

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[adept digital evolution]

On 09-06-2009 11:36 AM, David Rothstein wrote:
>
>   I suggest that you create a new bug report for this issue, tag it
> "Usability", and cross-link it from the original issue so people can
> find it.
>

i will do just that later, thank you for the response, the history, and
the links, David.

kazar
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[Emma Jane Hogbin-3]

On Sat, Sep 5, 2009 at 9:22 AM, adept digital evolution<techlists@...> wrote:
> **Is it too late to change the labeling of the input fields on the
> "Configure site" installation page to say "Super-User"?**

I don't like the term "Super-User" but agree that using two distinct
names will help. I'd recommend something less jargon-y for user/1. For
example: Site Owner, or Upgrade Account.

emma
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[adept digital evolution]

On 09-07-2009 5:47 AM, Emma Jane Hogbin wrote:

> On Sat, Sep 5, 2009 at 9:22 AM, adept digital evolution<techlists@...> wrote:
>  
>> **Is it too late to change the labeling of the input fields on the
>> "Configure site" installation page to say "Super-User"?**
>>    
>
> I don't like the term "Super-User" but agree that using two distinct
> names will help. I'd recommend something less jargon-y for user/1. For
> example: Site Owner, or Upgrade Account.
>  

I don't like Super-User either ... but I was "pulling a blank" when
trying to think of another name. I like Site Owner and will propose that
on the Issue. thanks!
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[adept digital evolution]

I have opened a new issue for this, 'change label for site-owner account
from "administrator" to "Site Owner"' at http://drupal.org/node/570572

feel free to chime in!

kazar
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[Bart Feenstra]

The problem with "Site owner", is that it is although clear and in a  
lot of cases correct it may not always apply, because the real site  
owner does not necessarily has to use that account.

On Sep 7, 2009, at 11:47, Emma Jane Hogbin wrote:

> On Sat, Sep 5, 2009 at 9:22 AM, adept digital evolution<techlists@...
> > wrote:
>> **Is it too late to change the labeling of the input fields on the
>> "Configure site" installation page to say "Super-User"?**
>
> I don't like the term "Super-User" but agree that using two distinct
> names will help. I'd recommend something less jargon-y for user/1. For
> example: Site Owner, or Upgrade Account.
>
> emma
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[adept digital evolution]

On 09-07-2009 11:49 AM, Bart Feenstra wrote:
> The problem with "Site owner", is that it is although clear and in a
> lot of cases correct it may not always apply, because the real site
> owner does not necessarily has to use that account.
>

What alternative do you suggest, Bart? post it to the issue
http://drupal.org/node/570572 , I'm not in any way married to Site
Owner, but it sure beats "superuser".

Perhaps if we could explicitly define what it is that the /user/1
account is able to do that other accounts cannot, it would help us find
the right name.

So, what *is* it that /user/1 can do that nobody else can?

kazar
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[Bart Feenstra]

Is there something like a synonym to "god"? Something that describes a  
person that can do *everything*, without possibly insulting religious  
people.


On Sep 7, 2009, at 19:15, adept digital evolution wrote:

> On 09-07-2009 11:49 AM, Bart Feenstra wrote:
>> The problem with "Site owner", is that it is although clear and in  
>> a lot of cases correct it may not always apply, because the real  
>> site owner does not necessarily has to use that account.
>>
>
> What alternative do you suggest, Bart? post it to the issue http://drupal.org/node/570572 
>  , I'm not in any way married to Site Owner, but it sure beats  
> "superuser".
>
> Perhaps if we could explicitly define what it is that the /user/1  
> account is able to do that other accounts cannot, it would help us  
> find the right name.
>
> So, what *is* it that /user/1 can do that nobody else can?
>
> kazar
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[Peter Dowling]

I kind of liked Emma's "Upgrade User", but perhaps that doesn't give one
a feeling for the scope.

What about just referring to it as "User 1"?  I realize it is a
drupalism, but it is one we all know and isn't too hard to explain to
someone outside the drupal realm.

On Mon, 2009-09-07 at 19:41 +0200, Bart Feenstra wrote:
> Is there something like a synonym to "god"? Something that describes
> a  
> person that can do *everything*, without possibly insulting
> religious  
> people.

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[Shai Gluskin-2]

Folks,

It is important to note that what we are discussing here is help-text. That reference to "admin user" comes up hardly ever in the UI. One place is on update.php if you are not user/1. There it says,

Access denied. You are not authorized to access this page. Please log in as the admin user (the first user you created).

The universal name for that user on every Drupal install is: user/1. End users can call it anything they want. That may be a problem in itself. Maybe the user name of user/1 should be pre-defined. But I think that solution is not possible due to code freeze.

I think by focusing on "what is the best name for that user" we are hyper-ocusing on something the end user needs to create anyway and which we can't control. It's also hard to refer to elsewhere in docs because end users will have used different user names for it.. In sum though, I think the help text in the wizard is the most important thing. Following is some suggested help text that I also posted to the queue.

Please set up your first account now by creating a user name and password and assigning an email address to it. This account has special privileges, unlike any other account that will be set up for the site. All other users are permitted to view pages or perform editorial or administrative activities on the site based on a role or roles that they are assigned to. However, the first user you are creating now can do everything. By definition, there are no limitations that can be placed on this first user (sometimes described as a "super-user" or as "user/1").

In addition, it is only the first user who can perform updates to Drupal or its contributed modules.

If the person creating the first account is also going to be adding content to the site, it is a best practice to create a separate account for creating the content. For example, for the first account, use "firstaccount" for the user name and for the account under which you'll post content use "Jane Smith," substituting your real name for "Jane Smith."

Everyone... please go to the queue and post, that is where things get processed toward a solution: 
http://drupal.org/node/570572

Shai

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[adept digital evolution]

On 09-07-2009 1:41 PM, Bart Feenstra wrote:
> Is there something like a synonym to "god"? Something that describes a
> person that can do *everything*, without possibly insulting religious
> people.
>
>

funny you should ask, i was mulling over the same thing. I toyed with
the phrase Site Czar
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[Peter Dowling]

Regarding "not possible due to code freeze".  As per Dries user
experience issues are one of the 10 exceptions to code freeze.  If this
is confusing to typical or new users then I don't think it would be an
issue as long as there was agreement.

Anyway, I'll look at the issue.

- Peter

On Mon, 2009-09-07 at 14:18 -0400, Shai Gluskin wrote:

> Folks,
>
> It is important to note that what we are discussing here is help-text.
> That reference to "admin user" comes up hardly ever in the UI. One
> place is on update.php if you are not user/1. There it says,
>
>         Access denied. You are not authorized to access this page.
>         Please log in as the admin user (the first user you created).
>
> The universal name for that user on every Drupal install is: user/1.
> End users can call it anything they want. That may be a problem in
> itself. Maybe the user name of user/1 should be pre-defined. But I
> think that solution is not possible due to code freeze.
>
> I think by focusing on "what is the best name for that user" we are
> hyper-ocusing on something the end user needs to create anyway and
> which we can't control. It's also hard to refer to elsewhere in docs
> because end users will have used different user names for it.. In sum
> though, I think the help text in the wizard is the most important
> thing. Following is some suggested help text that I also posted to the
> queue.
>
>         Please set up your first account now by creating a user name
>         and password and assigning an email address to it. This
>         account has special privileges, unlike any other account that
>         will be set up for the site. All other users are permitted to
>         view pages or perform editorial or administrative activities
>         on the site based on a role or roles that they are assigned
>         to. However, the first user you are creating now can do
>         everything. By definition, there are no limitations that can
>         be placed on this first user (sometimes described as a
>         "super-user" or as "user/1").
>        
>         In addition, it is only the first user who can perform updates
>         to Drupal or its contributed modules.
>        
>         If the person creating the first account is also going to be
>         adding content to the site, it is a best practice to create a
>         separate account for creating the content. For example, for
>         the first account, use "firstaccount" for the user name and
>         for the account under which you'll post content use "Jane
>         Smith," substituting your real name for "Jane Smith."
>        
>        
>
> Everyone... please go to the queue and post, that is where things get
> processed toward a solution:  
> http://drupal.org/node/570572
>
> Shai
>
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[digital-5]

I posted on the issue queue, but thought I would weigh in here as  
well. I think we are bending over backwards to invent a new term for a  
name that already exists, "super user."

It's a common convention in *nix systems. If not super-user, then  
root? This Drupal user is almost exactly like the  super user/root  
account on a *nix system.

bryan kennedy
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[Peter Dowling]

Probably best to keep this discussion on the issue as it isn't just a
docs issue.

If anyone would like to review, the issue is here...

http://drupal.org/node/570572

- Peter (winston)

On Tue, 2009-09-08 at 08:22 -0500, bryan on the web wrote:

> I posted on the issue queue, but thought I would weigh in here as  
> well. I think we are bending over backwards to invent a new term for a  
> name that already exists, "super user."
>
> It's a common convention in *nix systems. If not super-user, then  
> root? This Drupal user is almost exactly like the  super user/root  
> account on a *nix system.
>
> bryan kennedy
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