Advice Needed From Litigious Rhodies

[David Culp-3]

Stan:

I think you would be better off to use a boat that is out of production and
the company no longer in business.  That way, only the owner of the design
who probably has the molds (if there are any) might be interested in suing
you.  In fact, if the molds are nonexistent, I think that would be even
better.   In any case, they will be poorly organized, not very interested
and the success of litigation against you would probably be very low.   You
would be merely adding to an existing boat that is not being built any
longer.

On the other hand and playing the devil's advocate, if I am Catalina:  You
are taking my design on a boat still in production and tearing it down,
rebuilding and then marketing it to the public as a "Catalina".  You are
trading on my reputation, infringing my trademark and adding confusion in
the eyes of the consumer.  You may also infringe on my patents inadvertently
in the process of making the improvements you propose.  Even if I can't win
on those arguments-the Rhodes 22 is a better 22' boat then we build, but we
have deeper pockets; and wouldn't we like to put GBI out of business on
legal issues instead of having to compete?  Others have talked about success
stories with Shelby, Ram converted Cessnas, etc. and close to home-Dee
Howard modifications to Learjets were world renown.  I think the difference
is that these folks sold an after-market conversion to private owners but
were not a direct competitor in the business.  In other words, they didn't
have a factory capable of producing new cars or new airplanes and if memory
serves, even though they added value and charged for it, they didn't market
the finished products.  I think if Ford said we will take a Chevy make it
better and then re-market it, there would be some problems.  I think a big
company would rather try and squash the little guy then overlook or condone
them building a better mouse trap with their product and then marketing
it-especially in this environment.  In their mind, every recycled Catalina
you sold, is a customer who didn't buy a boat from them though I think that
is an apples and oranges comparison.... Still, it looks good in a pleading.

I am on marriage #3 which proves that I'm not a very good businessman but
very well acquainted with lawyers, so I just don't see the return on
investment/risk on a project like this.  Wouldn't you be better off in
trying to become the best sailboat repair and modification shop on the east
coast using the assets that you already have?   Customer supplied boats that
you merely repair or modify and are not resold; like Dee Howard did for
aircraft all those years in San Antonio.  Obviously the margins are not near
as good, but less risk and steady work might keep things going until the
tide rolls back in.

I am not a lawyer and don't play one on TV.

Regards,
David




Date: Wed, 4 Nov 2009 13:16:59 -0500
From: "stan" <stan@...>
Subject: [Rhodes22-list] advice needed from litigious Rhodies
To: "The Rhodes 22 mail list" <rhodes22-list@...>
Message-ID: <3E593F37DE3A427AB2EC4E7907A5120A@rhodes>
Content-Type: text/plain;       charset="iso-8859-1"

last time things got bad, to broaden our price marking base  we went into
recycling Rhodes

this time, to broaden our base and not keep losing those prospects who want
a little bit bigger boat (since no Rhodes took us up on the Rhodes 27
projected) we bought a Catalina 25 and have torn it apart.   we are going to
try and make it into a Catalina-Rhodes hybrid:   IMF, combo keel/cb,
electric tilting motor lift, etc.

it is being sold as a used Catalina 25 that we have recycled and upgraded.
 Can Frank butler (he owns Catalina) legally complain?

ss
__________________________________________________
To subscribe/unsubscribe go to http://www.rhodes22.org/mailman/listinfo/rhodes22-list

For the list Charter and help with using the mailing list and archives go to http://www.rhodes22.org/list
__________________________________________________

[R22RumRunner]

The O'Day molds went to China or Korea or one of those country's.  Really.
 
Rummy
 
 
In a message dated 11/6/2009 2:13:26 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
dculp@... writes:

Stan:

I think you would be better off to use a boat that is  out of production and
the company no longer in business.  That way,  only the owner of the design
who probably has the molds (if there are any)  might be interested in suing
you.  In fact, if the molds are  nonexistent, I think that would be even
better.   In any case,  they will be poorly organized, not very interested
and the success of  litigation against you would probably be very low.   You
would be  merely adding to an existing boat that is not being built  any
longer.

On the other hand and playing the devil's advocate, if I  am Catalina:  You
are taking my design on a boat still in production  and tearing it down,
rebuilding and then marketing it to the public as a  "Catalina".  You are
trading on my reputation, infringing my trademark  and adding confusion in
the eyes of the consumer.  You may also  infringe on my patents
inadvertently
in the process of making the  improvements you propose.  Even if I can't win
on those arguments-the  Rhodes 22 is a better 22' boat then we build, but we
have deeper pockets;  and wouldn't we like to put GBI out of business on
legal issues instead of  having to compete?  Others have talked about
success
stories with  Shelby, Ram converted Cessnas, etc. and close to home-Dee
Howard  modifications to Learjets were world renown.  I think the  
difference
is that these folks sold an after-market conversion to private  owners but
were not a direct competitor in the business.  In other  words, they didn't
have a factory capable of producing new cars or new  airplanes and if memory
serves, even though they added value and charged  for it, they didn't market
the finished products.  I think if Ford  said we will take a Chevy make it
better and then re-market it, there would  be some problems.  I think a big
company would rather try and squash  the little guy then overlook or condone
them building a better mouse trap  with their product and then marketing
it-especially in this  environment.  In their mind, every recycled Catalina
you sold, is a  customer who didn't buy a boat from them though I think that
is an apples  and oranges comparison.... Still, it looks good in a pleading.

I am on  marriage #3 which proves that I'm not a very good businessman but
very well  acquainted with lawyers, so I just don't see the return on
investment/risk  on a project like this.  Wouldn't you be better off in
trying to  become the best sailboat repair and modification shop on the east
coast  using the assets that you already have?   Customer supplied boats  
that
you merely repair or modify and are not resold; like Dee Howard did  for
aircraft all those years in San Antonio.  Obviously the margins  are not
near
as good, but less risk and steady work might keep things going  until the
tide rolls back in.

I am not a lawyer and don't play one  on TV.

Regards,
David




Date: Wed, 4 Nov 2009  13:16:59 -0500
From: "stan" <stan@...>
Subject:  [Rhodes22-list] advice needed from litigious Rhodies
To: "The Rhodes 22  mail list" <rhodes22-list@...>
Message-ID:  <3E593F37DE3A427AB2EC4E7907A5120A@rhodes>
Content-Type:  text/plain;       charset="iso-8859-1"

last time  things got bad, to broaden our price marking base  we went  into
recycling Rhodes

this time, to broaden our base and not keep  losing those prospects who want
a little bit bigger boat (since no Rhodes  took us up on the Rhodes 27
projected) we bought a Catalina 25 and have  torn it apart.   we are going
to
try and make it into a  Catalina-Rhodes hybrid:   IMF, combo keel/cb,
electric tilting  motor lift, etc.

it is being sold as a used Catalina 25 that we have  recycled and upgraded.
Can Frank butler (he owns Catalina) legally  complain?

ss
__________________________________________________
To  subscribe/unsubscribe go to  
http://www.rhodes22.org/mailman/listinfo/rhodes22-list

For the list  Charter and help with using the mailing list and archives go
to  http://www.rhodes22.org/list
__________________________________________________


__________________________________________________
To subscribe/unsubscribe go to http://www.rhodes22.org/mailman/listinfo/rhodes22-list

For the list Charter and help with using the mailing list and archives go to http://www.rhodes22.org/list
__________________________________________________

[Jack Schiller]

Stan, are you still affiliated with the Seward 26?

JS




________________________________
From: "R22RumRunner@..." <R22RumRunner@...>
To: rhodes22-list@...
Sent: Fri, November 6, 2009 5:48:22 PM
Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Advice Needed From Litigious Rhodies

The O'Day molds went to China or Korea or one of those country's.  Really.

Rummy


In a message dated 11/6/2009 2:13:26 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
dculp@... writes:

Stan:

I think you would be better off to use a boat that is  out of production and
the company no longer in business.  That way,  only the owner of the design
who probably has the molds (if there are any)  might be interested in suing
you.  In fact, if the molds are  nonexistent, I think that would be even
better.   In any case,  they will be poorly organized, not very interested
and the success of  litigation against you would probably be very low.   You
would be  merely adding to an existing boat that is not being built  any
longer.

On the other hand and playing the devil's advocate, if I  am Catalina:  You
are taking my design on a boat still in production  and tearing it down,
rebuilding and then marketing it to the public as a  "Catalina".  You are
trading on my reputation, infringing my trademark  and adding confusion in
the eyes of the consumer.  You may also  infringe on my patents
inadvertently
in the process of making the  improvements you propose.  Even if I can't win
on those arguments-the  Rhodes 22 is a better 22' boat then we build, but we
have deeper pockets;  and wouldn't we like to put GBI out of business on
legal issues instead of  having to compete?  Others have talked about
success
stories with  Shelby, Ram converted Cessnas, etc. and close to home-Dee
Howard  modifications to Learjets were world renown.  I think the  
difference
is that these folks sold an after-market conversion to private  owners but
were not a direct competitor in the business.  In other  words, they didn't
have a factory capable of producing new cars or new  airplanes and if memory
serves, even though they added value and charged  for it, they didn't market
the finished products.  I think if Ford  said we will take a Chevy make it
better and then re-market it, there would  be some problems.  I think a big
company would rather try and squash  the little guy then overlook or condone
them building a better mouse trap  with their product and then marketing
it-especially in this  environment.  In their mind, every recycled Catalina
you sold, is a  customer who didn't buy a boat from them though I think that
is an apples  and oranges comparison.... Still, it looks good in a pleading.

I am on  marriage #3 which proves that I'm not a very good businessman but
very well  acquainted with lawyers, so I just don't see the return on
investment/risk  on a project like this.  Wouldn't you be better off in
trying to  become the best sailboat repair and modification shop on the east
coast  using the assets that you already have?   Customer supplied boats  
that
you merely repair or modify and are not resold; like Dee Howard did  for
aircraft all those years in San Antonio.  Obviously the margins  are not
near
as good, but less risk and steady work might keep things going  until the
tide rolls back in.

I am not a lawyer and don't play one  on TV.

Regards,
David




Date: Wed, 4 Nov 2009  13:16:59 -0500
From: "stan" <stan@...>
Subject:  [Rhodes22-list] advice needed from litigious Rhodies
To: "The Rhodes 22  mail list" <rhodes22-list@...>
Message-ID:  <3E593F37DE3A427AB2EC4E7907A5120A@rhodes>
Content-Type:  text/plain;       charset="iso-8859-1"

last time  things got bad, to broaden our price marking base  we went  into
recycling Rhodes

this time, to broaden our base and not keep  losing those prospects who want
a little bit bigger boat (since no Rhodes  took us up on the Rhodes 27
projected) we bought a Catalina 25 and have  torn it apart.   we are going
to
try and make it into a  Catalina-Rhodes hybrid:   IMF, combo keel/cb,
electric tilting  motor lift, etc.

it is being sold as a used Catalina 25 that we have  recycled and upgraded.
Can Frank butler (he owns Catalina) legally  complain?

ss
__________________________________________________
To  subscribe/unsubscribe go to  
http://www.rhodes22.org/mailman/listinfo/rhodes22-list

For the list  Charter and help with using the mailing list and archives go
to  http://www.rhodes22.org/list
__________________________________________________


__________________________________________________
To subscribe/unsubscribe go to http://www.rhodes22.org/mailman/listinfo/rhodes22-list

For the list Charter and help with using the mailing list and archives go to http://www.rhodes22.org/list
__________________________________________________



     
__________________________________________________
To subscribe/unsubscribe go to http://www.rhodes22.org/mailman/listinfo/rhodes22-list

For the list Charter and help with using the mailing list and archives go to http://www.rhodes22.org/list
__________________________________________________

[stanleyl]

we do not stock them anymore since they now sell direct - our only value to
a buyer as a sales source is if the buyer wanted any upgrades incorporated.

ss

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jack Schiller" <jjschiller@...>
To: "The Rhodes 22 Email List" <rhodes22-list@...>
Sent: Friday, November 06, 2009 10:45 PM
Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Advice Needed From Litigious Rhodies

> Stan, are you still affiliated with the Seward 26?
>
> JS
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: "R22RumRunner@..." <R22RumRunner@...>
> To: rhodes22-list@...
> Sent: Fri, November 6, 2009 5:48:22 PM
> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Advice Needed From Litigious Rhodies
>
> The O'Day molds went to China or Korea or one of those country's.  Really.
>
> Rummy
>
>
> In a message dated 11/6/2009 2:13:26 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
> dculp@... writes:
>
> Stan:
>
> I think you would be better off to use a boat that is  out of production
> and
> the company no longer in business.  That way,  only the owner of the
> design
> who probably has the molds (if there are any)  might be interested in
> suing
> you.  In fact, if the molds are  nonexistent, I think that would be even
> better.   In any case,  they will be poorly organized, not very interested
> and the success of  litigation against you would probably be very low.
> You
> would be  merely adding to an existing boat that is not being built  any
> longer.
>
> On the other hand and playing the devil's advocate, if I  am Catalina:
> You
> are taking my design on a boat still in production  and tearing it down,
> rebuilding and then marketing it to the public as a  "Catalina".  You are
> trading on my reputation, infringing my trademark  and adding confusion in
> the eyes of the consumer.  You may also  infringe on my patents
> inadvertently
> in the process of making the  improvements you propose.  Even if I can't
> win
> on those arguments-the  Rhodes 22 is a better 22' boat then we build, but
> we
> have deeper pockets;  and wouldn't we like to put GBI out of business on
> legal issues instead of  having to compete?  Others have talked about
> success
> stories with  Shelby, Ram converted Cessnas, etc. and close to home-Dee
> Howard  modifications to Learjets were world renown.  I think the
> difference
> is that these folks sold an after-market conversion to private  owners but
> were not a direct competitor in the business.  In other  words, they
> didn't
> have a factory capable of producing new cars or new  airplanes and if
> memory
> serves, even though they added value and charged  for it, they didn't
> market
> the finished products.  I think if Ford  said we will take a Chevy make it
> better and then re-market it, there would  be some problems.  I think a
> big
> company would rather try and squash  the little guy then overlook or
> condone
> them building a better mouse trap  with their product and then marketing
> it-especially in this  environment.  In their mind, every recycled
> Catalina
> you sold, is a  customer who didn't buy a boat from them though I think
> that
> is an apples  and oranges comparison.... Still, it looks good in a
> pleading.
>
> I am on  marriage #3 which proves that I'm not a very good businessman but
> very well  acquainted with lawyers, so I just don't see the return on
> investment/risk  on a project like this.  Wouldn't you be better off in
> trying to  become the best sailboat repair and modification shop on the
> east
> coast  using the assets that you already have?   Customer supplied boats
> that
> you merely repair or modify and are not resold; like Dee Howard did  for
> aircraft all those years in San Antonio.  Obviously the margins  are not
> near
> as good, but less risk and steady work might keep things going  until the
> tide rolls back in.
>
> I am not a lawyer and don't play one  on TV.
>
> Regards,
> David
>
>
>
>
> Date: Wed, 4 Nov 2009  13:16:59 -0500
> From: "stan" <stan@...>
> Subject:  [Rhodes22-list] advice needed from litigious Rhodies
> To: "The Rhodes 22  mail list" <rhodes22-list@...>
> Message-ID:  <3E593F37DE3A427AB2EC4E7907A5120A@rhodes>
> Content-Type:  text/plain;       charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> last time  things got bad, to broaden our price marking base  we went
> into
> recycling Rhodes
>
> this time, to broaden our base and not keep  losing those prospects who
> want
> a little bit bigger boat (since no Rhodes  took us up on the Rhodes 27
> projected) we bought a Catalina 25 and have  torn it apart.   we are going
> to
> try and make it into a  Catalina-Rhodes hybrid:   IMF, combo keel/cb,
> electric tilting  motor lift, etc.
>
> it is being sold as a used Catalina 25 that we have  recycled and
> upgraded.
> Can Frank butler (he owns Catalina) legally  complain?
>
> ss
> __________________________________________________
> To  subscribe/unsubscribe go to
> http://www.rhodes22.org/mailman/listinfo/rhodes22-list
>
> For the list  Charter and help with using the mailing list and archives go
> to  http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> __________________________________________________
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> To subscribe/unsubscribe go to
> http://www.rhodes22.org/mailman/listinfo/rhodes22-list
>
> For the list Charter and help with using the mailing list and archives go
> to http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> __________________________________________________
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> To subscribe/unsubscribe go to
> http://www.rhodes22.org/mailman/listinfo/rhodes22-list
>
> For the list Charter and help with using the mailing list and archives go
> to http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> __________________________________________________

__________________________________________________
To subscribe/unsubscribe go to http://www.rhodes22.org/mailman/listinfo/rhodes22-list

For the list Charter and help with using the mailing list and archives go to http://www.rhodes22.org/list
__________________________________________________