Nabble - Aldor

Re: License for FriCAS-Aldor interface files

2009-12-01T06:44:48Z

Ralf Hemmecke wrote:

> Dear Mike, dear Stephen,
>
> may I ask you again to consider the attached request.
>
> Thank you
> Ralf
>
>
> On 09/24/2009 11:38 PM, Ralf HEMMECKE wrote:
>> Dear Stephen, dear Mike
>
>> as you might know, I have built some scripts in FriCAS (a fork of
>> Axiom) (http://fricas.sourceforge.net/) in order to build libaxiom.al
>> from scratch. Unfortunately, I can neither distribute libaxiom.al nor
>> some necessary .as files under the same license as FriCAS (mBSD),
>> since this code is only available under the Aldor Public License 2.0.
>>
>> I hereby kindly ask you to release the following files under a BSD
>> license (same as for the Axiom code).
>>
>> https://svn.origo.ethz.ch/algebraist/trunk/aldor/lib/libax0/axiom.as
>>
>> https://svn.origo.ethz.ch/algebraist/trunk/aldor/lib/libax0/axextend.as
>> https://svn.origo.ethz.ch/algebraist/trunk/aldor/lib/libax0/axlit.as
>> https://svn.origo.ethz.ch/algebraist/trunk/aldor/lib/libax0/stub.as
>>
>> https://svn.origo.ethz.ch/algebraist/trunk/aldor/lib/libax0/minimach.as
>>
>> https://svn.origo.ethz.ch/algebraist/trunk/aldor/lib/axllib/src/lang.as
>>
>> Furthermore, in order to distribute a precompiled libaxiom.al
>> together with FriCAS, it would be helpful to also release
>>
>> $(ALDORROOT)/lib/libfoam.al(runtime.ao)
>>
>> under a BSD license. For 'runtime.ao', also releasing the sources
>> under a BSD license would be good, but I explicitly ask for the
>> release of the .ao format.
>>
>> Please help the FriCAS project and don't let Aldor die.
>>
>> Has meanwhile anything been done to release all of the Aldor
>> compiler+library sources under a GPL-compatible license?
>>
>> Thank you for your time.
>>
>> Yours sincerely
>> Ralf Hemmecke
>
>
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>

Mike, Stephen,

I have recently decided after two years that Aldor was
never going to become free enough to be integrated back
into Axiom. The FriCAS project has been trying to keep
the connection alive.

It would seem that changing the license on the FriCAS
related files would at least help them in their efforts
to keep the connection alive. Thus, I'm adding my voice
to the request to make this change.

I realize that such changes involve your legal department
and come at a non-trivial cost. I also realize that you
may have prior agreements that prevent it. In any case,
I think that the sense of frustration in FriCAS appears
to be reaching a critical tipping point and this is likely
to end with Aldor being deleted.

Tim Daly

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Re: License for FriCAS-Aldor interface files

2009-11-30T23:07:57Z

Dear Mike, dear Stephen,

may I ask you again to consider the attached request.

Thank you
Ralf

On 09/24/2009 11:38 PM, Ralf HEMMECKE wrote:
> Dear Stephen, dear Mike

> as you might know, I have built some scripts in FriCAS (a fork of
> Axiom) (http://fricas.sourceforge.net/) in order to build libaxiom.al
> from scratch. Unfortunately, I can neither distribute libaxiom.al nor
> some necessary .as files under the same license as FriCAS (mBSD),
> since this code is only available under the Aldor Public License 2.0.
>
> I hereby kindly ask you to release the following files under a BSD
> license (same as for the Axiom code).
>
> https://svn.origo.ethz.ch/algebraist/trunk/aldor/lib/libax0/axiom.as
> https://svn.origo.ethz.ch/algebraist/trunk/aldor/lib/libax0/axextend.as
> https://svn.origo.ethz.ch/algebraist/trunk/aldor/lib/libax0/axlit.as
> https://svn.origo.ethz.ch/algebraist/trunk/aldor/lib/libax0/stub.as
> https://svn.origo.ethz.ch/algebraist/trunk/aldor/lib/libax0/minimach.as
> https://svn.origo.ethz.ch/algebraist/trunk/aldor/lib/axllib/src/lang.as
>
> Furthermore, in order to distribute a precompiled libaxiom.al together
> with FriCAS, it would be helpful to also release
>
> $(ALDORROOT)/lib/libfoam.al(runtime.ao)
>
> under a BSD license. For 'runtime.ao', also releasing the sources
> under a BSD license would be good, but I explicitly ask for the
> release of the .ao format.
>
> Please help the FriCAS project and don't let Aldor die.
>
> Has meanwhile anything been done to release all of the Aldor
> compiler+library sources under a GPL-compatible license?
>
> Thank you for your time.
>
> Yours sincerely
> Ralf Hemmecke

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Re: aldor build, cont

2009-09-30T03:17:37Z

Bertfried,

This also goes to aldor-l@... because the issue seems to be
connected to an aldor compiler problem. The orginal thread is
http://groups.google.com/group/fricas-devel/browse_thread/thread/967c7862de93b8b9

No problem with your asking for help... If you have trouble that might
also be a deficiency of the system. So any feedback is welcome.

You should, however, give more information of your system.

> patch didn't worked for me (error in line 55) so I substitured by hand
> the lined you
> provided for domains.mk

Why? You should send the error messages you see on your screen. Only
then I get a clue what the problem might have been. Just "didn't work"
tells me nothing.

> The compilation worked so fare fine, and even parts of the aldor support were
> compiled, then a certain switch seems to irritate the compiler, any hint?

Arrrrrhhhhhh. That is an ugly one.

../../../src/aldor/cliques.ascc1: error: unrecognized command line
option "-fwritable-strings"
#1 (Fatal Error) C compile failed. Command was: unicl
-I/usr/local/aldor/linux/1.0.3/include -c cliques.c
#1 (Warning) Removing file `cliques.c'.

Have you ever been able to compile a simple aldor file to an executable?

---- sometest.as
#include "aldor"
#include "aldorio"
stdout << "This is a simple test." << newline;
---- end sometest.as

aldor -fx -laldor -c args='-lm' sometest.as
./sometest

Should output the text above.

This -fwritable-strings could be connected to $ALDORROOT/include/aldor.conf.

Could you send that file to me together with the result of the commands
'uname -a' and 'gcc -v'.

Mine you find here: http://sage.math.washington.edu/home/hemmecke/pub/

Also look into the aldor-l archive there once was a discussion about
writable-strings.

http://www.aldor.org/pipermail/aldor-l/2007-June/000638.html
http://www.aldor.org/pipermail/aldor-l/2007-November/000788.html

It's so unfortunate that Aldor is no longer developed and it hasn't yet
been released under a truely open source licence. As you can see on the
mailing list there wasn't any support from Aldor.org since July 2008. :-(

Ralf

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Booleans

2009-09-11T08:38:16Z

Hi,

there is a potential bug in the constant folding optimiser that causes
the following boolean expression:

true /\ false,

which would obviously be false, to be transformed into true. The reason
is that the binary Bool$Machine operations use only first argument for
both operands. I fixed this, but I was wondering why it never manifested
itself. Apparently, "true /\ false" is actually a SInt expression, not a
Bool one. Why is this? From axllib, it looks like Boolean's
representation is actually a Bool. Maybe this is the result of another
optimiser? Maybe retyping? Can anyone explain?

--
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Re: Aldor type system

2009-09-10T11:47:25Z

Pippijn,

I think answers to all your questions are here:

http://www.aldor.org/docs/HTML/index.html

In particular for "Type conversion" see

http://www.aldor.org/docs/HTML/chap7.html#6

Quote:

Courtesy conversions

While most type conversions must be made explicitly, a very
conservative set of courtesy conversions are performed as needed.
Courtesy conversions change between items represented as

* multiple values,
* a single Cross product value (see section 13.4) and
* a single Tuple value (see section 13.3).

Certain Aldor programs would be extremely pedantic if courtesy
conversions were not applied.

The following courtesy conversions are applied automatically as required:

* Cross(T, ..., T) -> Tuple T
* Cross(T1, ..., TN) -> (T1, ..., TN)
* Cross(T) -> T
* (T, ..., T) -> Tuple T
* (T1, ..., TN) -> Cross(T1, ..., TN)
* T -> Tuple T
* T -> Cross T

These conversions allow functions which take or return multiple values
to be used to pass arguments to other functions which can accept them,
without requiring notation for an explicit conversion.

These conversions are applied only when the type of an expression
exactly matches one of the conversions. For example, a value of type
List Cross(T, T, T) would not automatically be converted to a value of
type List Tuple T. Such a conversion could incur a significant hidden
cost, even in more ordinary circumstances.

end quote

For the second question see: "Subtypes"

http://www.aldor.org/docs/HTML/chap7.html#5

If you have already read this and still have questions, I would be
glad to give my interpretation.

Regards,
Bill Page.

2009/9/10 Pippijn van Steenhoven wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I have a few questions about the aldor type system but I can only
> remember two of them at the moment:
>
> 1. Are there any implicit conversions and if so, how do they affect type
> inferencing? Implicit conversions make type inferencing undecidable
> and overloading ambiguous, so I hope not.
> 2. How does subtyping or type classification work? In ML, you can have a
> type called Bool and have two constructors TRUE and FALSE. You can
> then later use pattern matching to find out which of those two
> constructors was used to construct that Bool. In C++, one would do
> that with inheritance and dynamic_cast (or visitor). Same goes for
> Java. In C, it's all ugly with unions and markers and completely
> throwing away type safety. The best in my opinion is the ML way, but I
> understand that aldor doesn't have that, so what does it have?
>
> --
> Pippijn van Steenhoven
>

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Fluids

2009-09-10T08:55:57Z

Hi,

fluid variables are used in various places in the compiler. I don't know
whether I understand them correctly, but as far as I can tell, it is a
bit like perl's "local". A global variable is modified and restored after
the scope ends. Ending a scope is either done with Unscope, which just
unwinds the fluid stack up to the last Scope entry or with Return, which
does the same but also returns a value (or not, when passed Nothing).
There is also a thing called LongJmp which is used in the foam
interpreter and interactive loop. In the REPL, it is used to jump from a
signal handler back into the loop (after a fault or break). In the
interpreter, I have no idea. The JmpBuf used in fint's LongJmps is never
initialised. Reaching one of those LongJmps would result in a
segmentation fault (with all registers set to 0). Apparently, control
never does reach that code, normally, because I have never seen faults
like that.

Also, the REPL jumping part is highly inadvisible. For instance, it will
not work on intel itanium with optimisation turned on. Itanium has user
space CPU scheduling which interferes with the strange jumping behaviour.
Jumping out of a signal handler may also introduce strange bugs, because
every single instruction can throw control back from a place where global
state may have been modified in unexpected ways. Besides that, it is
simply undefined behaviour and nobody knows what really happens.

Can anyone explain the fint jumps? They seem to be stale. I'll
investigate some more, whether the code is ever reached.

--
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Aldor type system

2009-09-10T07:17:17Z

Hi,

I have a few questions about the aldor type system but I can only
remember two of them at the moment:

1. Are there any implicit conversions and if so, how do they affect type
inferencing? Implicit conversions make type inferencing undecidable
and overloading ambiguous, so I hope not.
2. How does subtyping or type classification work? In ML, you can have a
type called Bool and have two constructors TRUE and FALSE. You can
then later use pattern matching to find out which of those two
constructors was used to construct that Bool. In C++, one would do
that with inheritance and dynamic_cast (or visitor). Same goes for
Java. In C, it's all ugly with unions and markers and completely
throwing away type safety. The best in my opinion is the ML way, but I
understand that aldor doesn't have that, so what does it have?

--
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NEW_FORMATS

2009-09-10T06:37:18Z

Hi,

what is NEW_FORMATS? Trying to build it ends up missing faParamsv in
of_argsub.c. What is it supposed to do anyway?

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foamStr(tag) vs. foamInfo(tag).str

2009-09-10T04:34:56Z

Hi,

there are two different ways in which foam_info.str is accessed and both
are used. Which one is used appears to be completely arbitrary, so my
question is: which one should be used?

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Ref(T)

2009-09-01T06:27:08Z

Does somebody know whether "Ref" as described in the AUG 14.17 is
actually implemented in the current aldor compiler?

Mine always complains about not knowing about "Ref".

Ralf

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Re: Semicolon after single statement in if?

2009-05-07T07:22:39Z

> Lexing a float, for instance:
>
> float: integer '.' [ integer ]
> | '.' integer
>
> now notice the operator '.' and the operator '..' in:

> 2..3
>
> this could be either of:
>
> 2. . 3
> 2. .3
> 2 . .3
> 2 .. 3
>
> so there is code that takes care of this.

See AUG Section 22.2. "Tokens"

The sequence of source characters is partitioned into tokens.
The longest possible match is always used.

So '2..3' must mean '2 .. 3'.

Anyway, from the regular expressions for float appearing on page 243

[0-9]*`.'[0-9]+{[eE]{[+-]}[0-9]+}
[0-9]+`.'[0-9]*{[eE]{[+-]}[0-9]+}
[0-9]+[eE]{[+-]}[0-9]+
[0-9]+`r'[0-9A-Z]*`.'[0-9A-Z]+{e{[+-]}[0-9]+}
[0-9]+`r'[0-9A-Z]+`.'[0-9A-Z]*{e{[+-]}[0-9]+}
[0-9]+`r'[0-9A-Z]+`e'{[+-]}[0-9]+

I would happily remove the first line. Why would someone want .1 to be a
floating point number. It's much more readable if one writes 0.1, no?

BTW, the AUG also says

A floating point literal may not
- begin with ".", unless the preceding token is a keyword other
than ")", "|)", "]" or "}",
- contain ".", if the preceding token is ".",
- end with ".", if the following character is ".".

So your case is explicitly ruled out.

Ralf

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Re: Semicolon after single statement in if?

2009-05-07T04:54:58Z

On Thu, May 07, 2009 at 01:22:59AM +0200, Ralf Hemmecke wrote:
> Expression: enlist1a(Labeled, ";")
>
> So if ever you find a place in you program where "Expression" is
> appropriate, then also ;; should be appropriate.

Forgot to say this: "Expression" is not valid at global scope. It is only
valid if parenthesised or bracketed, so:

(a := 3;;;;;;)

works fine. Horrible, isn't it?

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Re: Semicolon after single statement in if?

2009-05-07T04:53:26Z

On Thu, May 07, 2009 at 01:22:59AM +0200, Ralf Hemmecke wrote:

>> Removing the ; from either of the two last lines will be fine. The only
>> thing it does not accept is ;; anywhere.
>
> That ;; is not accepted is somewhat strange. If I look at the grammar,
> it says:
>
> Expression: enlist1a(Labeled, ";")
>
> So if ever you find a place in you program where "Expression" is
> appropriate, then also ;; should be appropriate.

I was wrong. The compiler actually does accept ;;, but not ;;;.
Try:

a := 3; -- works
a := 3;; -- works
a := 3;;;
.......^
(Error) Cannot recover from earlier syntax errors.

My (educated, since this happens all the time in the compiler) guess is
that the lexer has hacks to recover from ;; but it kills only one ;, so
the third ; is still read. All these hacks are getting me quite pissed..
Lexing a float, for instance:

float: integer '.' [ integer ]
| '.' integer

now notice the operator '.' and the operator '..' in:

2..3

this could be either of:

2. . 3
2. .3
2 . .3
2 .. 3

so there is code that takes care of this. I currently use a lookahead
character to decide this, so if I read a float "2.", I look whether the
next character is '.' and if so, push back the '.' into the stream and
return an integer. NAG-Aldor has some more code for this to decide
whether floats can exist in certain lexical contexts. Does the AUG have
anything on this?

--
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Re: Semicolon after single statement in if?

2009-05-06T16:37:49Z

On Wed, May 06, 2009 at 03:24:28PM -0700, David Casperson wrote:

> hi folks,
>
> I don't have definite proof that it is legal, but I seem to remember that
>
> x:=3 ; ++ post
> ++ document
>
> is a legal expression, and consequently could be substituted for Y in
>
> if Z then Y else other ;
>
> If that is the case
>
> x:=3 ;
>
> may reduce to an expression (that is followed by a list of zero
> post-documents).
>
> Does this help?
>
> David
> --
> David Casperson,
> UNBC

Hi,

x := 3; ++ post document

as far as I can tell from the grammar, this would be a

CurlyContentA (Labelled): CurlyContentB (Labelled) ";" PostDocument

and not an expression. I don't see how a CurlyContents (which is what it
becomes in the end) can become an expression. However, what makes me
think is that the Aldor compiler actually uses this grammar and it
accepts the code, but why? How can it do that? Also, I can see reductions
from "x := 3;" to an AnyStatement but not to BalStatement, which is
required by "if". I am tired, so I will look again, tomorrow, maybe I can
find it.

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Re: Semicolon after single statement in if?

2009-05-06T16:22:59Z

On 05/06/2009 10:47 PM, Pippijn van Steenhoven wrote:

> On Wed, May 06, 2009 at 04:11:59PM -0400, Bill Page wrote:
>> Pippijn,
>>
>> I think what you wrote should not be allowed. Since ; is used to
>> separate statements, the second line should be a syntactical error.
>> Did you get a different result when you tried this?
>
> #include "aldor.as"
> #include "aldorio.as"
> import from MachineInteger;
> if (1 < 2) then stdout << "ok" << newline;
> else stdout << "not ok" << newline;
>
> The current aldor compiler will compile this fine and print "ok".

It looks strange. But I somehow think if the semi-colon is allowed that
should be fine.

> Removing the ; from either of the two last lines will be fine. The only
> thing it does not accept is ;; anywhere.

That ;; is not accepted is somewhat strange. If I look at the grammar,
it says:

Expression: enlist1a(Labeled, ";")

So if ever you find a place in you program where "Expression" is
appropriate, then also ;; should be appropriate.

Ralf

PS: BTW, you don't need (..) around 1 < 2.

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Re: Semicolon after single statement in if?

2009-05-06T15:24:28Z

hi folks,

I don't have definite proof that it is legal, but I seem to remember that

x:=3 ; ++ post
++ document

is a legal expression, and consequently could be substituted for Y in

if Z then Y else other ;

If that is the case

x:=3 ;

may reduce to an expression (that is followed by a list of zero
post-documents).

Does this help?

David
--
David Casperson,
UNBC

On Wed, May 06, 2009 at 04:11:59PM -0400, Bill Page wrote:
> Pippijn,
>
> I think what you wrote should not be allowed. Since ; is used to
> separate statements, the second line should be a syntactical error.
> Did you get a different result when you tried this?

#include "aldor.as"
#include "aldorio.as"
import from MachineInteger;
if (1 < 2) then stdout << "ok" << newline;
else stdout << "not ok" << newline;

The current aldor compiler will compile this fine and print "ok".
Removing the ; from either of the two last lines will be fine. The only
thing it does not accept is ;; anywhere. The point why I am asking this
is that in libaldor (I think, or maybe it was libalgebra), there are
several places where "if (a) then b; else c;" occurs and I don't think
this is actually valid.

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Re: Semicolon after single statement in if?

2009-05-06T13:47:04Z

On Wed, May 06, 2009 at 04:11:59PM -0400, Bill Page wrote:
> Pippijn,
>
> I think what you wrote should not be allowed. Since ; is used to
> separate statements, the second line should be a syntactical error.
> Did you get a different result when you tried this?

#include "aldor.as"
#include "aldorio.as"
import from MachineInteger;
if (1 < 2) then stdout << "ok" << newline;
else stdout << "not ok" << newline;

The current aldor compiler will compile this fine and print "ok".
Removing the ; from either of the two last lines will be fine. The only
thing it does not accept is ;; anywhere. The point why I am asking this
is that in libaldor (I think, or maybe it was libalgebra), there are
several places where "if (a) then b; else c;" occurs and I don't think
this is actually valid.

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Re: Semicolon after single statement in if?

2009-05-06T13:11:59Z

Pippijn,

I think what you wrote should not be allowed. Since ; is used to
separate statements, the second line should be a syntactical error.
Did you get a different result when you tried this?

Regards,
Bill Page.

2009/5/6 Pippijn van Steenhoven <pip88nl@...>:

> Hi,
>
> can anyone tell me whether a semicolon is allowed in:
>
> if (foo) then bar; <- here
> else baz;
>
> As far as I can tell from the grammar, it is not allowed, but maybe I'm
> missing something, again. Can anyone help me out here?
>
> Regards,
>
> --
> Pippijn van Steenhoven
>
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> Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux)
>
> iEYEARECAAYFAkoBvDIACgkQJc+zqGNdDgqHLgCgtTI+poEpF3ZN8HnXBQxClb/B
> zcQAn1NDAxMpwitRaMjbk9SKCGKLBH4Y
> =HnLU
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Semicolon after single statement in if?

2009-05-06T09:34:58Z

Hi,

can anyone tell me whether a semicolon is allowed in:

if (foo) then bar; <- here
else baz;

As far as I can tell from the grammar, it is not allowed, but maybe I'm
missing something, again. Can anyone help me out here?

Regards,

--
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Re: Source documentation

2009-04-25T10:55:37Z

On 04/25/2009 01:41 AM, Pippijn van Steenhoven wrote:
>> as far as I can tell from the grammar in the Aldor User Guide, Doc(E)
>> is never used in Curly(E) which is ultimately the Goal. The only
>> place I see it used is in Piled(E). Is this an omission or am I
>> missing anything here?

> Actually, I missed it. CurlyContentB has it.

OK, but why is CurlyContentB introduced at all? It's the same as 'Doc'.

If I read tne grammar well then

+++ a
+++ b
+++ c
+++ d
foo(...): ... ==

makes 'a b c d' the PreDoc of 'foo'. Indentation does not matter,
neither in piled nor in non-piled mode.

> Also related but previously forgotten: where can doc comments be
> and what are the semantics of these comments? Are they attached to
> the expression, such that:
>
> Foo (I : Integer) : Integer == {
> +++ This doc comment is attached to the following expression
> I := I + 1;
> ++ This doc comment is attached to the above expression
> +++ This doc comment is attached to I * I
> I * I
> ++ I * I is multiplying a number by itself (interesting, isn't
> ++ it?)
> }
>
> What use is a doc comment? How can one use them? More importantly:
> what do we _want_ them to do?

Most importantly, pre and postdoc are used like

---BEGIN
+++ PreDoc for MyCat
MyCat: Category == with {
foo: % -> ()
++ PostDoc for foo
}
---END

And there they could be attached to MyCat and foo, respectively with the
obvious meaning of documenting these identifiers. The current compiler
stores these Docs in the .ao files, but there is no program that
actually uses them.

Yannis Chicha once started with an AldorDoc program which would extract
these docs and produce something like Axiom's HyperDoc. But that program
was never in a usable state.

I have, however, no idea, how one could reasonably use Pre and PostDocs
for the expressions you have documented above. That would be a question
to the designers of Aldor.

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Re: Source documentation

2009-04-25T02:28:35Z

On 04/25/2009 01:20 AM, David Casperson wrote:

> Hi Pippijn,
>
> this is just from memory, but you can change from curly to piled any
> time that you encounter a
>
> #pile
>
> and that the two goals can nest in relatively arbitrary ways.
>
> Speaking solely from the point of view of someone writing tools, the
> piled text is a pain to parse.

Well, the Python people should have some experience with program layout
using something equivalent to #pile. So there must be a way to be able
to work nicely with #pile mode. ;-)

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> A related question: is piling important? Should its support be high
> priority? (Especially to you, Ralf.)

For me, #pile is definitely not important.

I have a dislike for pile mode because of code like the following from
the Axiom library...

1:UnivariatePuiseuxSeriesWithExponentialSingularity(R,FE,var,cen):_
2: Exports == Implementation where
3: R : Join(OrderedSet,RetractableTo Integer,_
4: LinearlyExplicitRingOver Integer,GcdDomain)

The indentation of line 2 is completely irrelevant because of the _ in
line 1. The same applies for line 2. But as far as I remember, there was
a rule that Axiom would automatically continue a line when a closing
parenthesis is missing. So the _ on line 3 would be unnnecessary.
(See page 888 of (Tim's version) of the Axiom book or
http://www.axiom-developer.org/axiom-website/hyperdoc/axbook/section-10.2.xhtml)

Does someone (unfamiliar with SPAD) really understand the following?
-----
The definition of drawRibbons consists of a pile of expressions to be
executed one after another. Each expression of the pile is indented at
the same level. Lines 4-7 designate one single expression: since lines
5-7 are indented with respect to the others, these lines are treated as
a continuation of line 4. Also since lines 5 and 7 have the same
indentation level, these lines designate a pile within the outer pile.
-----

How much do you like the following from
http://www.axiom-developer.org/axiom-website/hyperdoc/axbook/section-5.2.xhtml

---BEGIN

Blocks can be used in the arguments to functions. (Here h is
assigned 2.1+3.5.)

h := 2.1 +
1.0
3.5

---END

And how much do you like the next thing?

---BEGIN
Here the second argument to eval is x=z, where the value of z is
computed in the first line of the block starting on the second
line.

eval(x**2 - x*y**2,
z := %pi/2.0 - exp(4.1)
x = z
)

The interesting part is also the closing parenthesis. Could I write it
in column 1? Or column 6, so that it alligns with "x=z"?

Ralf

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Re: Source documentation

2009-04-24T16:41:54Z

> as far as I can tell from the grammar in the Aldor User Guide, Doc(E) is
> never used in Curly(E) which is ultimately the Goal. The only place I see
> it used is in Piled(E). Is this an omission or am I missing anything
> here?

Actually, I missed it. CurlyContentB has it.

> A related question: is piling important? Should its support be high
> priority? (Especially to you, Ralf.)

This question remains. I am ignoring it for now.

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Re: Source documentation

2009-04-24T16:20:33Z

Also related but previously forgotten: where can doc comments be and what
are the semantics of these comments? Are they attached to the expression,
such that:

Foo (I : Integer) : Integer == {
+++ This doc comment is attached to the following expression
I := I + 1;
++ This doc comment is attached to the above expression
+++ This doc comment is attached to I * I
I * I
++ I * I is multiplying a number by itself (interesting, isn't it?)
}

What use is a doc comment? How can one use them? More importantly: what
do we _want_ them to do?

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Re: Source documentation

2009-04-24T16:20:24Z

Hi Pippijn,

this is just from memory, but you can change from curly to piled any time
that you encounter a

#pile

and that the two goals can nest in relatively arbitrary ways.

Speaking solely from the point of view of someone writing tools, the piled
text is a pain to parse.

David
--
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Department of Computer Science | (250) 960-6672 Fax 960-5544
College of Science and Management | 3333 University Way
University of Northern British Columbia | Prince George, BC V2N 4Z9

Hi,

as far as I can tell from the grammar in the Aldor User Guide, Doc(E) is
never used in Curly(E) which is ultimately the Goal. The only place I see
it used is in Piled(E). Is this an omission or am I missing anything
here?

A related question: is piling important? Should its support be high
priority? (Especially to you, Ralf.)

--
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Source documentation

2009-04-24T16:15:03Z

Hi,

as far as I can tell from the grammar in the Aldor User Guide, Doc(E) is
never used in Curly(E) which is ultimately the Goal. The only place I see
it used is in Piled(E). Is this an omission or am I missing anything
here?

A related question: is piling important? Should its support be high
priority? (Especially to you, Ralf.)

--
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Calculemus 2009 - Emerging Trends track CFP

2009-04-13T12:00:09Z

-----------------------------------------
CALCULEMUS 2009 - Final Call for Papers
-----------------------------------------
16th Symposium on the Integration of
Symbolic Computation and Mechanised Reasoning

6-7 July 2009, Joint with CICM'09, Ontario, Canada.

http://www.calculemus.net/meetings/ontario09/
http://www.orcca.on.ca/conferences/cicm09/calculemus09/

Calculemus is a series of conferences dedicated to the integration of
computer
algebra systems (CAS) and systems for mechanised reasoning, the interactive
theorem provers or proof assistants (PA) and the automated theorem provers
(ATP).

Currently, symbolic computation is divided into several (more or less)
independent branches: traditional ones (e.g., computer algebra and
mechanised
reasoning) as well as newly emerging ones (on user interfaces, knowledge
management, theory exploration, etc.) The main concern of the Calculemus
community is to bring these developments together in order to facilitate the
theory, design, and implementation of integrated systems for computer
mathematics that will routinely be used by mathematicians, computer
scientists
and engineers in their every day business.

We seek original research papers for the upcoming Calculemus meeting,
which will
be held jointly with MKM 2009 (confederated in the Conferences on
Intelligent
Computer Mathematics, CICM 2009) in Ontario, Canada.

INVITED TALKS
-------------

We are pleased to have invited talks from:

Prof. Jacques Calmet (http://iaks-www.ira.uka.de/iaks-calmet/en_index.html)

Rob Arthan (Director of Lemma 1, developer of ProofPower,
http://www.lemma-one.demon.co.uk/Arthan/homepage.html)

TOPICS OF INTEREST
------------------

The scope of Calculemus covers all aspects of the interplay of mechanised
reasoning and computer algebra, including cross-fertilisation between
those two
research areas, as well as the development of integrated systems that
transcend
both computer algebra and theorem proving. Potential topics of interest
include:

* Theorem proving in computer algebra (CAS)
* Computer algebra in theorem proving (PA and ATP)
* Case studies and applications that both involve computer algebra and
mechanised reasoning
* Representation of mathematics in computer algebra
* Adding computational capabilities to PA and ATP
* Formal methods requiring mixed computing and proving
* Combining methods of symbolic computation and formal deduction
* Mathematical computation in PA and ATP
* Theory, design and implementation of interdisciplinary systems for
computer mathematics
* Infrastructure for mathematical services
* Theory exploration techniques

Papers on other topics closely related to the above research
areas will also be welcomed for consideration.

IMPORTANT DATES
---------------

For (reviewed) full-paper submissions, the deadlines are:

Abstract submission: 13 February 2009
Submission deadline: 20 February 2009
Notification of acceptance: 10 April 2009
Camera ready copies due: 24 April 2009

For extended abstracts on emerging trends, the deadlines are:

Submission deadline: 7 May 2009
Notification of acceptance: 30 May 2009
Camera ready copies due: 12 June 2009

The dates of the Calculemus conference are: 6,7 July 2009

SUBMISSION
----------

Theoretical and applied research papers on all topics within the scope
of the
symposium are invited. Submitted papers must be in English and must not
exceed
15 pages for full-papers, and should be between 200 words and 20 pages for
emeging trends extended abstracts - we suggest 10 pages. The title page
should
contain the title, author(s) with affiliation(s), e-mail address(es),
listing of
keywords and abstract. The program committee (PC) will subject all
full-papers
submitted to a peer review. Emerging trends papers will be lightly reviewed.
Results must be unpublished.

The web page for electronic submission of full-papers is:
http://www.easychair.org/conferences/?conf=calculemus2009

The web page for electronic submission of emerging trends papers is:
http://www.easychair.org/conferences/?conf=calculemustrends2009

The proceedings of full-papers in the conference will be published as a
volume
in the series Lecture Notes in Artificial Intelligence (LNAI) by
Springer-Verlag. Accepted papers will have to be prepared in LaTeX and
formatted
according to the requirements of the Springer's LNAI series (the
corresponding
style files can be downloaded from
http://www.springer.de/comp/lncs/authors.html
and are the same for LNCS and LNAI).

Emerging trends papers will be made available online, but will not be
published.
These papers are expected to be describing work in progress.

PROGRAMME COMMITTEE
-------------------
Markus Aderhold (TU Darmstadt, Germany)
Serge Autexier (DFKI, Germany)
John Campbell (University College London, UK)
Jacques Carette (PC Chair) (McMaster University, Canada)
James H. Davenport (University of Bath, UK)
Louise Dennis (University of Liverpool, UK)
Lucas Dixon (PC Chair) (University of Edinburgh, UK)
William Farmer (McMaster University, Canada)
Jacques Fleuriot (University of Edinburgh, UK)
Herman Geuvers (Radboud University Nijmegen, Netherlands)
Michael Kohlhase (DFKI, Germany)
Steve Linton (University of St. Andrews, UK)
Tomas Recio (Universidad de Cantabria, Spain)
Tom Ridge (University of Cambridge, UK)
Julio Rubio (Universidad de La Rioja, Spain)
Volker Sorge (University of Birmingham, UK)

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algebraist web site

2009-04-13T08:20:41Z

Origo, the open source software development and collaboration platform

http://www.origo.ethz.ch

that hosts, the Algebraist parallel development site for Aldor

http://algebraist.origo.ethz.ch

recently added a project statistics section.

http://algebraist.origo.ethz.ch/statistics

I was surprised (and pleased) to see that last months statistics for
"Download Hits (43)", "Source Hits (1043)" and "Web Hits (7414)" were
not insubstantial. Perhaps this is a sign that the Aldor project is
not quite dead (yet).

Does anyone have any ideas on how to move forward with the Aldor
licensing issue?

Regards,
Bill Page.

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Re: +-> lambda expressions without specifying types

2009-03-22T11:17:49Z

Good point, but that only allows specification of the parameter type.
I would have to give the target type anyway.

However, also

---rhxBEGIN
#include "aldor"
default x: Integer;
default y: Integer;
foo: (Integer, Integer)->Boolean == (x, y):Boolean +-> true;
---rhxEND

is not a program that the current compiler accepts.

>aldor -fx -laldor aaa.as
"aaa.as", line 4: foo: (Integer, Integer)->Boolean == (x, y):Boolean +->
true;
.....................................^..^
[L4 C38] #1 (Error) Expecting a comma separated list of parameters.

Regards,
Ralf

On 03/22/2009 10:22 AM, Stephen Watt wrote:

> Yes, it allows that syntax, but it will not infer the types of the
> arguments. The syntax makes sense, though, because the parameter
> names may have been given a default type.
>
> -- Stephen
>
> On Fri, Mar 20, 2009 at 8:14 PM, Ralf Hemmecke <ralf@...> wrote:
>> If I did not make a mistake, the grammar in the Aldor User Guide seems to
>> allow something like x+->x+1.
>>
>> But in the program below the Aldor compiler (1.1.0) cannot/does not infer
>> the type of the lambda expression in baz.
>>
>> Stephen, is that intended or is that just a short-coming of the compiler?
>>
>> Ralf
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------
>>> aldor -fx -laldor aaa.as
>> "aaa.as", line 9: baz(i: Integer): Integer == foo((x +-> x-1), i);
>> ...................................^
>> [L9 C36] #1 (Error) Expecting a comma separated list of parameters.
>>
>> ---rhxBEGIN aaa.as
>> #include "aldor"
>> Aaa: with {
>> foo: (Integer -> Integer, Integer) -> Integer;
>> bar: Integer -> Integer;
>> bar: Integer -> Integer;
>> } == add {
>> foo(f: Integer->Integer, i: Integer): Integer == f i;
>> bar(i: Integer): Integer == foo((x: Integer): Integer +-> x+1, i);
>> baz(i: Integer): Integer == foo((x +-> x-1), i);
>> }
>> main(): () == {
>> import from String, Character, TextWriter, Integer, Aaa;
>> stdout << foo(bar, 1) << newline;
>> stdout << bar 1 << newline;
>> stdout << bar 1 << newline;
>> }
>> main();
>> ---rhxEND aaa.as
>>

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+-> lambda expressions without specifying types

2009-03-20T17:14:54Z

If I did not make a mistake, the grammar in the Aldor User Guide seems
to allow something like x+->x+1.

But in the program below the Aldor compiler (1.1.0) cannot/does not
infer the type of the lambda expression in baz.

Stephen, is that intended or is that just a short-coming of the compiler?

Ralf

---------------------------------------------------------
>aldor -fx -laldor aaa.as
"aaa.as", line 9: baz(i: Integer): Integer == foo((x +-> x-1), i);
...................................^
[L9 C36] #1 (Error) Expecting a comma separated list of parameters.

---rhxBEGIN aaa.as
#include "aldor"
Aaa: with {
foo: (Integer -> Integer, Integer) -> Integer;
bar: Integer -> Integer;
bar: Integer -> Integer;
} == add {
foo(f: Integer->Integer, i: Integer): Integer == f i;
bar(i: Integer): Integer == foo((x: Integer): Integer +-> x+1, i);
baz(i: Integer): Integer == foo((x +-> x-1), i);
}
main(): () == {
import from String, Character, TextWriter, Integer, Aaa;
stdout << foo(bar, 1) << newline;
stdout << bar 1 << newline;
stdout << bar 1 << newline;
}
main();
---rhxEND aaa.as

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Re: GMP on OpenSolaris

2009-03-19T11:57:55Z

> http://www.mpir.org

> It specifically has a GNU LGPL v2+ license. I am quite sure it has
> support on OpenSolaris.
>
> MPIR is used in Sage.

Interesting, the COPYING file in the 1.0 tar file says GPL v2+ (not LGPL
as on the above website). Maybe they want to confuse people.

Ralf

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Re: GMP on OpenSolaris

2009-03-19T11:30:23Z

Pippijn,

Maybe you would like to consider using the new MPIR fork of GMP with Aldor?

http://www.mpir.org

It specifically has a GNU LGPL v2+ license. I am quite sure it has
support on OpenSolaris.

MPIR is used in Sage.

Regards,
Bill Page.

2009/3/19 Pippijn van Steenhoven <pip88nl@...>:

> Hello,
>
> yesterday, I installed OpenSolaris in VMWare. Aldor runs fine after a few
> tweaks. The only thing missing is libgmp, so I can't build native shared
> libraries. Apparently, GMP is not allowed due to its licence (GPLv3):
> http://opensolaris.org/os/project/arc-process/PTLtestbed/PTL/. However,
> according to the GMP website itself, it is LGPL, so I don't quite get it.
> Anyhow, I wanted to make more use of GMP in Aldor by replacing the bigint
> implementation with it. OpenSolaris not having GMP makes that a bit
> harder. Also, is it just me or does GMP have near to no documentation?
> How do people know what functions do what? I myself use the C++ interface
> to infer the function names ("what's the function for mpz + mpz? Let's
> see what mpz_class::operator+(mpz_class) does").
>
> Regards,
>
> --
> Pippijn van Steenhoven
>
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux)
>
> iEYEARECAAYFAknCDDIACgkQJc+zqGNdDgp0zACgqUbQemCVP219rAdqxnvylHLl
> CooAn1rirYhQ59Gd+tJCSUEM2Nv/z083
> =FXKw
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>
> _______________________________________________
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> Aldor-l@...
> http://aldor.org/mailman/listinfo/aldor-l_aldor.org
>
>

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GMP on OpenSolaris

2009-03-19T02:11:14Z

Hello,

yesterday, I installed OpenSolaris in VMWare. Aldor runs fine after a few
tweaks. The only thing missing is libgmp, so I can't build native shared
libraries. Apparently, GMP is not allowed due to its licence (GPLv3):
http://opensolaris.org/os/project/arc-process/PTLtestbed/PTL/. However,
according to the GMP website itself, it is LGPL, so I don't quite get it.
Anyhow, I wanted to make more use of GMP in Aldor by replacing the bigint
implementation with it. OpenSolaris not having GMP makes that a bit
harder. Also, is it just me or does GMP have near to no documentation?
How do people know what functions do what? I myself use the C++ interface
to infer the function names ("what's the function for mpz + mpz? Let's
see what mpz_class::operator+(mpz_class) does").

Regards,

--
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Re: Aldor on MSDOS

2009-03-18T09:33:48Z

On Wed, Mar 18, 2009 at 11:43:57AM -0400, Bill Page wrote:

> It's just a guess, but I am quite sure the answer is "no".
>
> Seriously, is there any reason to be interested in 16 bit DOS other
> than history? I can not imagine any real application of Aldor on such
> a machine. But of course that these (and worse!) were the kind of
> tools that the original developers had to work with at the time, does
> underscore the admiration that most people feel for the true pioneers
> in any endeavor.
>
> At this time in 2009, I think bug fixing and some high-level aspects
> of the Aldor language should be the main focus. I do not see any
> reason to continue to support any build platforms other than recent
> versions of Linux/OSX/BSD, MS Windows and Solaris. Doing this would
> likely mean that the build system and some parts of the "portability
> layer" could be considerably simplified and standardized.
>
> Regards,
> Bill Page.

Basically, Aldor supports the following platforms: CMS, MSDOS, MacOS X,
Macintosh, OS/2, various UNIX-like systems, VMS, Win32. I am somewhat in
favour of removing CMS, DOS, OS/2 and VMS, unless anyone wants to use it
on those systems. The Macintosh part is tiny, so we can keep that. I am
also in favour of (at least temporarily) removing the garbage collector.
Doing so will make the OS layer much simpler, because most of that layer
is memory management. The garbage collector does not work on VMS,
Macintosh and OS/2, so it wouldn't be a loss on those systems (provided
we want to keep them).

Currently (or soon), I can test the following environments:

- GCC 4.2.1 on Win32 (mingw)
- VS9 on Win32 (microsoft)
- Watcom 1.8 on WinNT, Win95, Win31 (386 enhanced mode)
- Watcom 1.8 on Linux/i386 (maybe)
- GCC 4.1.2, 4.1.3 and 4.3.2 on Linux/i386
- GCC 4.3.2 on Linux/x86_64 (currently not, maybe later)
- GCC 3.4.2 and 4.2.1 on FreeBSD/i386
- TinyC on Linux/i386
- TenDRA on Linux/i386
- GCC (unknown, I haven't managed to set it up, yet) on RISC
System/6000 running AIX

I am going to try and get access to some Solaris machines. I revamped the
build system completely, allowing for easy cross compilations. That is
nice.. what is not nice is that the system has become rather convoluted
because of it. I need to give it another look, document it, make it more
aesthetically pleasing, etc.

Bill, do you still have access to the OpenSolaris machines? If so, then
could you test Aldor on that?

Regards,

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Re: Aldor on MSDOS

2009-03-18T09:03:38Z

> At this time in 2009, I think bug fixing and some high-level aspects
> of the Aldor language should be the main focus. I do not see any
> reason to continue to support any build platforms other than recent
> versions of Linux/OSX/BSD, MS Windows and Solaris. Doing this would
> likely mean that the build system and some parts of the "portability
> layer" could be considerably simplified and standardized.

I completely agree with Bill. I would even further cut down the number
of supported platforms.

Anyway, much better would be to start writing Aldor or actually a better
language with a free compiler from scratch. It doesn't look as if Aldor
is becoming free in a couple of months.

Ralf

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Re: Aldor on MSDOS

2009-03-18T08:43:57Z

2009/3/18 Pippijn van Steenhoven:
>
> after two days of trying to get Aldor to work under 16 bit DOS, I had
> to give up, failing over segment sizes. I tried bruce's compiler, borland
> turbo C and watcom 1.8.0. Maybe I am doing something wrong, but
> has anybody built Aldor under DOS lately?
>

It's just a guess, but I am quite sure the answer is "no".

Seriously, is there any reason to be interested in 16 bit DOS other
than history? I can not imagine any real application of Aldor on such
a machine. But of course that these (and worse!) were the kind of
tools that the original developers had to work with at the time, does
underscore the admiration that most people feel for the true pioneers
in any endeavor.

At this time in 2009, I think bug fixing and some high-level aspects
of the Aldor language should be the main focus. I do not see any
reason to continue to support any build platforms other than recent
versions of Linux/OSX/BSD, MS Windows and Solaris. Doing this would
likely mean that the build system and some parts of the "portability
layer" could be considerably simplified and standardized.

Regards,
Bill Page.

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