Android
|
View:
New views
12 Messages
—
Rating Filter:
Alert me
|
 |
Android
by trampster
::
Rate this Message:
What are mono projects plans regarding Android.
I see that a basic port has been done but that its not good for much more then a hello world app. I assumed that strategically Android would be more important to mono then the iphone. Given that android has a Linux kernel and is open source, it seems to be a much better fit for mono then what the iphone is. And as such would have a larger mind share amongst mono developers. Instead a lot of effort has gone in to supporting the most closed and tightly controlled mobile platform in existence. Predictions are that android will overtake the iphone in market share by 2012. Not only is Android free and open source google is actually paying venders to use android (http://tinyurl.com/yzqjmkq). Companies like motorola are betting their future on android. Being able to use mono to do cross platform mobile development would be awesome. But the catch is in order to capture a decent share of android development you will have to be in early. The appeal of mono is that it enables cross platform .net development, if so why concentrate so much on a single platform to the exclusion of the others. (surely its not because you can charge for mono touch, if so the mono project has strayed very far from its roots) It seems to me that mono is excursively betting everything on the wrong horse. _______________________________________________ Mono-list maillist - Mono-list@... http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-list |
|
|
Re: Android
by Casper Bang-3
::
Rate this Message:
I have to at least partly agree with you here daniel, while I would love to develop
smartphone applications using C#/Mono, getting an iPhone to do so is not a compromise I'm willing to make. Too expensive for the masses (outside of the US anyway) and way too much dictatorship. Frankly, I think Apple and the iPhone is at its peak at the moment as they transition from small and lightweight to large and heavy. Miguel did blog about it a couple of years ago [http://tirania.org/blog/archive/2007/Nov-13-1.html] and as you mention, Koushik did get a prototype up and running earlier this year [http://www.koushikdutta.com/2009/01/mono-for-android-now-available-on.html] but since then not much has happened. Of course, we are free to join in and work on this ourselves (the typical response) but I just wanted to add that I have also talked to several other Android developers who would not mind a more expressive language as well as better runtime, as also investigated by Koushik [http://www.koushikdutta.com/2009/01/dalvik-vs-mono.html]. /Casper On Tue, Nov 3, 2009 at 11:23 AM, daniel <trampster@...> wrote: What are mono projects plans regarding Android. _______________________________________________ Mono-list maillist - Mono-list@... http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-list |
|
|
Re: Android
by Thomas Jam Pedersen
::
Rate this Message:
Dear All. _______________________________________________ Mono-list maillist - Mono-list@... http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-list |
|
|
Re: Android
by Adam Tauno Williams
::
Rate this Message:
On Tue, 2009-11-03 at 13:04 +0100, Thomas Jam Pedersen wrote:
> We are currently porting Mono to Android. (and soon also to ChromeOS) Exciting. (a) I love .NET and (b) I just pre-ordered my Motorola Droid. I really, really, don't want to develop in Java. > We expect to release the first version in the beginning of next year. > (2010) > We hope to make it so that winform programs developed in VisualStudio > will run on all platforms without recompile (in most cases). Wow! A Winforms app on a mobile device? I don't even want to do that - but if you make it work someone should buy you a beer. _______________________________________________ Mono-list maillist - Mono-list@... http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-list |
|
|
Re: Android
by trampster
::
Rate this Message:
I personally would rather bindings to the android graphics libraries
(whatever they are called) then a winforms port which will just look and feel wrong. At work I am a windows mobile developer and develop using the compact framework and I can tell you that winforms on mobile devices sucks big time. Its impossible to create anything that look half way decent. And if you want to do anything remotely modern looking you have to drop into native libraries using pinvoke. So no thank you to the win forms but yes please to mono on android. Something on par with the iphone support would be great. Adam Tauno Williams wrote: > On Tue, 2009-11-03 at 13:04 +0100, Thomas Jam Pedersen wrote: > >> We are currently porting Mono to Android. (and soon also to ChromeOS) >> > > Exciting. (a) I love .NET and (b) I just pre-ordered my Motorola Droid. > > I really, really, don't want to develop in Java. > > >> We expect to release the first version in the beginning of next year. >> (2010) >> We hope to make it so that winform programs developed in VisualStudio >> will run on all platforms without recompile (in most cases). >> > > Wow! A Winforms app on a mobile device? I don't even want to do that - > but if you make it work someone should buy you a beer. > > _______________________________________________ > Mono-list maillist - Mono-list@... > http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-list > > _______________________________________________ Mono-list maillist - Mono-list@... http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-list |
|
|
Re: Android
by Thomas Jam Pedersen
::
Rate this Message:
Thanks for your feedback Daniel. _______________________________________________ Mono-list maillist - Mono-list@... http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-list |
|
|
Re: Android
by Stifu
::
Rate this Message:
The Mono guys put a theme interface in place for WinForms, which could be used to make WinForms apps look "right" on Android.
Just my 2 cents. Good luck!
|
|
|
Re: Android
by Mike Christensen
::
Rate this Message:
Well the Windows Mobile 7 platform will be centered around the
Silverlight runtime. I would suggest positioning Mono/Android in a similar strategy. On Tue, Nov 3, 2009 at 11:27 PM, Stifu <stifu@...> wrote: > > The Mono guys put a theme interface in place for WinForms, which could be > used to make WinForms apps look "right" on Android. > > Just my 2 cents. Good luck! > > > Thomas Jam Pedersen wrote: >> >> Thanks for your feedback Daniel. >> >> OK, so you don't like winform. (But this is where the majority of >> developers are worldwide) >> Would WPF be better for you? >> >> Let me tell you what we want. We are not particular focusing on winform. >> What we want to do, is to make it possible to build an application in >> Visual Studio. >> Then be able to run that application on 6 different platforms without >> having to rebuild it for each platform. And it should look and feel almost >> the same on all 6 platforms. And it shall be able to run both as a >> preinstalled application and as a small application which you run ondemand >> from URL link. (essentially embedded in a webpage) >> >> For Android we would like to make a bridge that enable you to access >> Dalvik (Android Java) functionality. But we don't want to force developers >> to do anything in Java or learn a new IDE. >> >> Given these two constraints (no java, no new IDE) it would be nice if some >> of you could give us feedback on what you would like to have on Android. >> (and other mobile platforms) >> >> Best regards, >> >> Thomas >> >> >> -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- >> Fra: mono-list-bounces@... på vegne af daniel >> Sendt: on 04-11-2009 06:49 >> Til: Mono-list@... >> Emne: Re: [Mono-list] Android >> >> I personally would rather bindings to the android graphics libraries >> (whatever they are called) then a winforms port which will just look and >> feel wrong. >> >> At work I am a windows mobile developer and develop using the compact >> framework and I can tell you that winforms on mobile devices sucks big >> time. Its impossible to create anything that look half way decent. And >> if you want to do anything remotely modern looking you have to drop into >> native libraries using pinvoke. >> >> So no thank you to the win forms but yes please to mono on android. >> Something on par with the iphone support would be great. >> >> Adam Tauno Williams wrote: >>> On Tue, 2009-11-03 at 13:04 +0100, Thomas Jam Pedersen wrote: >>> >>>> We are currently porting Mono to Android. (and soon also to ChromeOS) >>>> >>> >>> Exciting. (a) I love .NET and (b) I just pre-ordered my Motorola Droid. >>> >>> I really, really, don't want to develop in Java. >>> >>> >>>> We expect to release the first version in the beginning of next year. >>>> (2010) >>>> We hope to make it so that winform programs developed in VisualStudio >>>> will run on all platforms without recompile (in most cases). >>>> >>> >>> Wow! A Winforms app on a mobile device? I don't even want to do that - >>> but if you make it work someone should buy you a beer. >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Mono-list maillist - Mono-list@... >>> http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-list >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Mono-list maillist - Mono-list@... >> http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-list >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Mono-list maillist - Mono-list@... >> http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-list >> >> > > -- > View this message in context: http://old.nabble.com/Android-tp26177657p26192032.html > Sent from the Mono - General mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > > _______________________________________________ > Mono-list maillist - Mono-list@... > http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-list > Mono-list maillist - Mono-list@... http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-list |
|
|
Re: Android
by trampster
::
Rate this Message:
Silverlight does provide a modern looking user interface.
However the current sand boxed, browser based silverlight is not useful. Mobile apps need access to the hardware, they need access to accelerometers, to GPS, to multi touch, to cameras, to flash and whatever other hardware interfaces are available. And they need the UI to look and feel native, to comply to the UI guide lines of the target platform. When mono wanted a GUI on Gnome they wrapped GTK to produce GTK#, how many popular linux mono apps use winforms? Banshee...no , mono develop.......no, fspot.......no, gnome do.........no, tomboy........no. Sure winforms exists for mono on linux but its uptake has not been anything like what you would think. Where are all the winforms apps which have been ported to linux because of mono? sure some have, but none of those are popular or widely used on linux. When mono wanted a GUI on iphone did they port winforms???? no they provided bindings to the native iphone APIs. If you really have a requirement for write once run anywhere (I don't) then you have to make serious compromises especially in the mobile space. Your best bet would be some kind of non sand boxed and not browser based version of moonlight. Plus a bunch of cross platform libraries for binding to hardware (accelerometers, cameras, GPS etc). Mike Christensen wrote: > Well the Windows Mobile 7 platform will be centered around the > Silverlight runtime. I would suggest positioning Mono/Android in a > similar strategy. > > On Tue, Nov 3, 2009 at 11:27 PM, Stifu <stifu@...> wrote: > >> The Mono guys put a theme interface in place for WinForms, which could be >> used to make WinForms apps look "right" on Android. >> >> Just my 2 cents. Good luck! >> >> >> Thomas Jam Pedersen wrote: >> >>> Thanks for your feedback Daniel. >>> >>> OK, so you don't like winform. (But this is where the majority of >>> developers are worldwide) >>> Would WPF be better for you? >>> >>> Let me tell you what we want. We are not particular focusing on winform. >>> What we want to do, is to make it possible to build an application in >>> Visual Studio. >>> Then be able to run that application on 6 different platforms without >>> having to rebuild it for each platform. And it should look and feel almost >>> the same on all 6 platforms. And it shall be able to run both as a >>> preinstalled application and as a small application which you run ondemand >>> from URL link. (essentially embedded in a webpage) >>> >>> For Android we would like to make a bridge that enable you to access >>> Dalvik (Android Java) functionality. But we don't want to force developers >>> to do anything in Java or learn a new IDE. >>> >>> Given these two constraints (no java, no new IDE) it would be nice if some >>> of you could give us feedback on what you would like to have on Android. >>> (and other mobile platforms) >>> >>> Best regards, >>> >>> Thomas >>> >>> >>> -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- >>> Fra: mono-list-bounces@... på vegne af daniel >>> Sendt: on 04-11-2009 06:49 >>> Til: Mono-list@... >>> Emne: Re: [Mono-list] Android >>> >>> I personally would rather bindings to the android graphics libraries >>> (whatever they are called) then a winforms port which will just look and >>> feel wrong. >>> >>> At work I am a windows mobile developer and develop using the compact >>> framework and I can tell you that winforms on mobile devices sucks big >>> time. Its impossible to create anything that look half way decent. And >>> if you want to do anything remotely modern looking you have to drop into >>> native libraries using pinvoke. >>> >>> So no thank you to the win forms but yes please to mono on android. >>> Something on par with the iphone support would be great. >>> >>> Adam Tauno Williams wrote: >>> >>>> On Tue, 2009-11-03 at 13:04 +0100, Thomas Jam Pedersen wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>> We are currently porting Mono to Android. (and soon also to ChromeOS) >>>>> >>>>> >>>> Exciting. (a) I love .NET and (b) I just pre-ordered my Motorola Droid. >>>> >>>> I really, really, don't want to develop in Java. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> We expect to release the first version in the beginning of next year. >>>>> (2010) >>>>> We hope to make it so that winform programs developed in VisualStudio >>>>> will run on all platforms without recompile (in most cases). >>>>> >>>>> >>>> Wow! A Winforms app on a mobile device? I don't even want to do that - >>>> but if you make it work someone should buy you a beer. >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Mono-list maillist - Mono-list@... >>>> http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-list >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Mono-list maillist - Mono-list@... >>> http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-list >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Mono-list maillist - Mono-list@... >>> http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-list >>> >>> >>> >> -- >> View this message in context: http://old.nabble.com/Android-tp26177657p26192032.html >> Sent from the Mono - General mailing list archive at Nabble.com. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Mono-list maillist - Mono-list@... >> http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-list >> >> > _______________________________________________ > Mono-list maillist - Mono-list@... > http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-list > > _______________________________________________ Mono-list maillist - Mono-list@... http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-list |
|
|
Re: Android
by Robert Jordan
::
Rate this Message:
daniel wrote:
> Silverlight does provide a modern looking user interface. > > However the current sand boxed, browser based silverlight is not useful. WinMob 7 won't be based on the Silverlight *browser* plugin, which is just a host of the Silverlight framework. WinMob will host Silverlight 3.0 mobile apps directly, of course *with* GPS and other hardware support. If I would care about those devices, I'd go the Moonlight way, although I don't believe that a catch-all UI framework would ever be as useful as a lovely implemented native UI that respects the HIG of a certain device. See MonoTouch. Robert _______________________________________________ Mono-list maillist - Mono-list@... http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-list |
|
|
Re: Android
by Jonathan Pryor
::
Rate this Message:
On Wed, 2009-11-04 at 07:40 +0100, Thomas Jam Pedersen wrote:
> Let me tell you what we want. ... > What we want to do, is to make it possible to build an application in > Visual Studio. That's very easy to do -- even MonoTouch apps can be built in Visual Studio. (Testing is another matter entirely, but *building* can be done in VS, and reportedly is done by some devs on the MonoTouch list.) > Then be able to run that application on 6 different platforms without > having to rebuild it for each platform. And it should look and feel > almost the same on all 6 platforms. I'd hate to be the bearer of bad news, but this is loony. Developers have been trying for *decades* to do this. ALL attempts have failed (or at least aren't very successful), without exception. There are multiple problems: - Such a library attempts to be a platform abstraction layer, but the underlying platforms keep changing over time. Result: inevitably the underlying platform gains a new UI control that is unusable from the library. - Application are more than just "looks." There are lots of subtleties at play with UI interaction, from expected drag-and-drop interactions to font kerning. (See also all the complaints against Safari on Windows due to font display differences.) - Different platforms have different conventions for e.g. button placement, which isn't always easy to abstract out either. To take some modern-day examples: Java: AWT is dead (and the prime example of "can't keep up with underlying platform improvements," much less platform differences -- it didn't provide a tree UI, iirc, among other things, as not all platforms provided a tree control). Swing is better, and actually attempts to deal sanely with button placement/etc., but it's still a "leaky abstraction," and users can often tell that it's not a native app just because of "look & feel" issues. Qt: Custom draws ~everything, and is actually capable of looking reasonably native on Windows & OS X, but I've heard from some users that they can readily tell when an app is written in Qt on OS X. GTK: Have you seen MonoDevelop on OS X? It works, which is wonderful, but "native looking" it is not. Even on Windows 7, the menus don't look correct (compared to Notepad), and the File->Open dialog is completely wrong. Furthermore, many built-in apps on Windows migrating to Ribbon-style interfaces (WordPad, Paint), so the very meaning of what a Windows app "looks like" is changing. (Though Windows has always been a clusterf*ck for UI consistency, especially among Microsoft apps.) The only apps that have a chance of being "cross-platform" are apps which *completely* control their own UI. Think "Flash". Granted, these apps don't look native *anywhere*, but at least they look the same everywhere! (This is still appropriate for many things, such as games -- where custom drawn everything is the norm -- but for "normal" programs users often prefer apps which -- shock! -- look like the other apps they use.) So in a sense, Silverlight will be a rational way forward with "cross-platform UI"s, with the *large* caveat that said "cross-platform UI" will effectively be restricted to a custom UI for that specific app, with a high likelihood that it won't look like the native UI for that platform. This may be acceptable -- again, think Flash -- but it won't always be acceptable. THIS is why MonoTouch bound the native iPhone UI. Anything else would involve more work and a lesser, less consistent, user experience. Anything else -- outside of games/etc. -- is a path to FAIL. For the same reasons, any Mono+Android effort will need to bind the Android UI libraries (not reimplement or write a theme mimicking, but actually *bind*). This way Mono+Android apps will look, feel, and be entirely indistinguishable from every other app on the platform, and will thus be able to conform to UI metaphors that lead to a consistent user experience. Anything else is insulting to the users. - Jon _______________________________________________ Mono-list maillist - Mono-list@... http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-list |
|
|
Re: Android
by Mike Christensen
::
Rate this Message:
Yes, there will be a core Silverlight framework (a Mini .NET if you
will) that will be the same on browser and mobile and then extensions specific to mobile that will provide access to phone level hardware like touch, GPS, camera, etc. One person mentioned that being able to write a program once and have it run anywhere is loony, which it is; but this strategy would make possible the ability to write a mobile program and run it on WinMo and Android with little or no recompilation. WinMo (6.x anyway) has something like 200,000 apps so even if half those port over to 7 (yes, all third party 7 apps will be written in managed code) then I could see a lot of the WinMo apps either supporting Mono/Android directly or coming out with Android versions well before iPhone versions. Mike On Wed, Nov 4, 2009 at 3:20 AM, Robert Jordan <robertj@...> wrote: > daniel wrote: >> Silverlight does provide a modern looking user interface. >> >> However the current sand boxed, browser based silverlight is not useful. > > WinMob 7 won't be based on the Silverlight *browser* plugin, > which is just a host of the Silverlight framework. > > WinMob will host Silverlight 3.0 mobile apps directly, of course > *with* GPS and other hardware support. > > If I would care about those devices, I'd go the Moonlight way, > although I don't believe that a catch-all UI framework would > ever be as useful as a lovely implemented native UI that > respects the HIG of a certain device. See MonoTouch. > > Robert > > _______________________________________________ > Mono-list maillist - Mono-list@... > http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-list > Mono-list maillist - Mono-list@... http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-list |
| Free embeddable forum powered by Nabble | Forum Help |
