Another high profile Grails site goes live

[Marc Palmer Local]

Later than we hoped but let's say there were issues upstream of us :)

http://www.tropicana.co.uk/

The UK arm of the famous orange and related juices uses:

* Grails 0.4
* StaticResourcesPlugin 0.2
* ModelTagLib
* I18NTagLib

Again its a very simple site in "Web developer" terms but there's a  
bit of data collection smarts in there, plus some more things to  
come. A fun bit was setting up wallpapers to download with their  
content-disposition set so they download instead of display. I still  
don't think I have this 100% right for all browsers, but it was done  
just using Apache mod_headers which was a nice solution because  
getting Tomcat to serve these large files would have been madness.

There's quite a bit of flash on the site, but none of it is served by  
Tomcat and is hence not in the .WAR thanks to  
StaticResourcesPlugin... which was totally broken until this morning  
in production, sorry guys - unit tested well but then you find that  
on a live box grails.env is not set at all...

Soon we will move all images to static serving and the site should be  
even snappier.

There are some known issues (ugly chars in the country list!) and  
some significant updates to come to both Copella and Tropicana sites  
in the near term... and there are more sites to come in before the  
summer! :)

Thanks again to all the grails devs for making this possible.  
Tropicana was much less painful than, nay very enjoyable, compared to  
Copella as 0.4 is such a landmark release for putting Grails sites  
into live production.

Marc
~ ~ ~
Marc Palmer (marc@...)
Consultant/Analyst
http://www.anyware.co.uk/

AnyWare Ltd.


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[Dierk König]

very nice! congratulations!

Dierk

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Marc Palmer [mailto:marc@...]
> Sent: Mittwoch, 7. Februar 2007 17:32
> To: user@...
> Subject: [grails-user] Another high profile Grails site goes live
>
>
>
> Later than we hoped but let's say there were issues upstream of us :)
>
> http://www.tropicana.co.uk/
>
> The UK arm of the famous orange and related juices uses:
>
> * Grails 0.4
> * StaticResourcesPlugin 0.2
> * ModelTagLib
> * I18NTagLib
>
> Again its a very simple site in "Web developer" terms but there's a  
> bit of data collection smarts in there, plus some more things to  
> come. A fun bit was setting up wallpapers to download with their  
> content-disposition set so they download instead of display. I still  
> don't think I have this 100% right for all browsers, but it was done  
> just using Apache mod_headers which was a nice solution because  
> getting Tomcat to serve these large files would have been madness.
>
> There's quite a bit of flash on the site, but none of it is served by  
> Tomcat and is hence not in the .WAR thanks to  
> StaticResourcesPlugin... which was totally broken until this morning  
> in production, sorry guys - unit tested well but then you find that  
> on a live box grails.env is not set at all...
>
> Soon we will move all images to static serving and the site should be  
> even snappier.
>
> There are some known issues (ugly chars in the country list!) and  
> some significant updates to come to both Copella and Tropicana sites  
> in the near term... and there are more sites to come in before the  
> summer! :)
>
> Thanks again to all the grails devs for making this possible.  
> Tropicana was much less painful than, nay very enjoyable, compared to  
> Copella as 0.4 is such a landmark release for putting Grails sites  
> into live production.
>
> Marc
> ~ ~ ~
> Marc Palmer (marc@...)
> Consultant/Analyst
> http://www.anyware.co.uk/
>
> AnyWare Ltd.
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from this list please visit:
>
>     http://xircles.codehaus.org/manage_email

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[Olivier Armand]

Marc,

I would be interested to know how long it took your team to implement
Tropicana and Coppela's web sites. I know an estimate doesn't worth
much without its context, but a rough idea would still be interesting.

-- Olivier Armand

On 2/7/07, Marc Palmer <marc@...> wrote:

>
> Later than we hoped but let's say there were issues upstream of us :)
>
> http://www.tropicana.co.uk/
>
> The UK arm of the famous orange and related juices uses:
>
> * Grails 0.4
> * StaticResourcesPlugin 0.2
> * ModelTagLib
> * I18NTagLib
>
> Again its a very simple site in "Web developer" terms but there's a
> bit of data collection smarts in there, plus some more things to
> come. A fun bit was setting up wallpapers to download with their
> content-disposition set so they download instead of display. I still
> don't think I have this 100% right for all browsers, but it was done
> just using Apache mod_headers which was a nice solution because
> getting Tomcat to serve these large files would have been madness.
>
> There's quite a bit of flash on the site, but none of it is served by
> Tomcat and is hence not in the .WAR thanks to
> StaticResourcesPlugin... which was totally broken until this morning
> in production, sorry guys - unit tested well but then you find that
> on a live box grails.env is not set at all...
>
> Soon we will move all images to static serving and the site should be
> even snappier.
>
> There are some known issues (ugly chars in the country list!) and
> some significant updates to come to both Copella and Tropicana sites
> in the near term... and there are more sites to come in before the
> summer! :)
>
> Thanks again to all the grails devs for making this possible.
> Tropicana was much less painful than, nay very enjoyable, compared to
> Copella as 0.4 is such a landmark release for putting Grails sites
> into live production.
>
> Marc
> ~ ~ ~
> Marc Palmer (marc@...)
> Consultant/Analyst
> http://www.anyware.co.uk/
>
> AnyWare Ltd.
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from this list please visit:
>
>     http://xircles.codehaus.org/manage_email
>
>

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[Jesse O'Neill-Oine-2]

Some parts of this message have been removed. Learn more about Nabble's security policy.

+1

I know you already did a bit of a debrief on how using Grails went for you, but if you had any additional insights into the planning game, I'm sure it would help all of us. :)

-Jesse

On 2/12/07, Olivier Armand <always.further@...> wrote:

Marc,

I would be interested to know how long it took your team to implement
Tropicana and Coppela's web sites. I know an estimate doesn't worth
much without its context, but a rough idea would still be interesting.

-- Olivier Armand

On 2/7/07, Marc Palmer <marc@...> wrote:
>
> Later than we hoped but let's say there were issues upstream of us :)
>
> http://www.tropicana.co.uk/
>
> The UK arm of the famous orange and related juices uses:
>
> * Grails 0.4
> * StaticResourcesPlugin 0.2
> * ModelTagLib

> * I18NTagLib
>
> Again its a very simple site in "Web developer" terms but there's a
> bit of data collection smarts in there, plus some more things to
> come. A fun bit was setting up wallpapers to download with their
> content-disposition set so they download instead of display. I still
> don't think I have this 100% right for all browsers, but it was done
> just using Apache mod_headers which was a nice solution because
> getting Tomcat to serve these large files would have been madness.
>
> There's quite a bit of flash on the site, but none of it is served by
> Tomcat and is hence not in the .WAR thanks to

> StaticResourcesPlugin... which was totally broken until this morning

> in production, sorry guys - unit tested well but then you find that
> on a live box grails.env is not set at all...
>
> Soon we will move all images to static serving and the site should be
> even snappier.
>
> There are some known issues (ugly chars in the country list!) and
> some significant updates to come to both Copella and Tropicana sites
> in the near term... and there are more sites to come in before the
> summer! :)
>
> Thanks again to all the grails devs for making this possible.
> Tropicana was much less painful than, nay very enjoyable, compared to
> Copella as 0.4 is such a landmark release for putting Grails sites
> into live production.
>
> Marc
> ~ ~ ~
> Marc Palmer (marc@...)

> Consultant/Analyst

> http://www.anyware.co.uk/
>
> AnyWare Ltd.
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from this list please visit:
>
>     http://xircles.codehaus.org/manage_email
>
>

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--
----------------------------------------------------------
Jesse O'Neill-Oine // jesse@...
Refactr LLC // http://refactr.com
mobile // 612-670-5037
----------------------------------------------------------

[Marc Palmer Local]

On 12 Feb 2007, at 20:15, Olivier Armand wrote:

> Marc,
>
> I would be interested to know how long it took your team to implement
> Tropicana and Coppela's web sites. I know an estimate doesn't worth
> much without its context, but a rough idea would still be interesting.

I can't go into too much detail but the two sites together were about  
15 days of my time so far. There is some functional overlap. There  
was a fair amount of Grails bug finding / feature contrib / bleeding  
edge pain which made this much longer than it would be now.

I'm only talking about my part here - the Grails back end. We have  
other developers working on the designs, CSS, XHTML etc. and I spent  
extra time configuring the servers, admin etc.

To do a simple site like this again, for the grails part - once you  
know your stuff - would be a lot less than 5 days I think. We have  
some interesting visitor tracking / profile update stuff going on  
which complicated it slightly.

This all of course depends on how much of an investment you want to /  
can make in unit and functional testing up front. Because of tight  
deadlines we couldn't do this. These are being added now.

Marc




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[Alex Fuller]

Hi Marc,

Without going into any compromising detail, I'd be interested to know a bit about the functional scope of the back-end for the Tropicana site? I'm just curious to know what level of functionality you're achieving in these timescales!

Regards,

Alex

Marc Palmer-2 wrote:

On 12 Feb 2007, at 20:15, Olivier Armand wrote:

> Marc,
>
> I would be interested to know how long it took your team to implement
> Tropicana and Coppela's web sites. I know an estimate doesn't worth
> much without its context, but a rough idea would still be interesting.

I can't go into too much detail but the two sites together were about  
15 days of my time so far. There is some functional overlap. There  
was a fair amount of Grails bug finding / feature contrib / bleeding  
edge pain which made this much longer than it would be now.

I'm only talking about my part here - the Grails back end. We have  
other developers working on the designs, CSS, XHTML etc. and I spent  
extra time configuring the servers, admin etc.

[Steven Devijver]

Hey, that's my favorite fruit juice!

On 2/7/07, Marc Palmer <marc@...> wrote:

>
> Later than we hoped but let's say there were issues upstream of us :)
>
> http://www.tropicana.co.uk/
>
> The UK arm of the famous orange and related juices uses:
>
> * Grails 0.4
> * StaticResourcesPlugin 0.2
> * ModelTagLib
> * I18NTagLib
>
> Again its a very simple site in "Web developer" terms but there's a
> bit of data collection smarts in there, plus some more things to
> come. A fun bit was setting up wallpapers to download with their
> content-disposition set so they download instead of display. I still
> don't think I have this 100% right for all browsers, but it was done
> just using Apache mod_headers which was a nice solution because
> getting Tomcat to serve these large files would have been madness.
>
> There's quite a bit of flash on the site, but none of it is served by
> Tomcat and is hence not in the .WAR thanks to
> StaticResourcesPlugin... which was totally broken until this morning
> in production, sorry guys - unit tested well but then you find that
> on a live box grails.env is not set at all...
>
> Soon we will move all images to static serving and the site should be
> even snappier.
>
> There are some known issues (ugly chars in the country list!) and
> some significant updates to come to both Copella and Tropicana sites
> in the near term... and there are more sites to come in before the
> summer! :)
>
> Thanks again to all the grails devs for making this possible.
> Tropicana was much less painful than, nay very enjoyable, compared to
> Copella as 0.4 is such a landmark release for putting Grails sites
> into live production.
>
> Marc
> ~ ~ ~
> Marc Palmer (marc@...)
> Consultant/Analyst
> http://www.anyware.co.uk/
>
> AnyWare Ltd.
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from this list please visit:
>
>     http://xircles.codehaus.org/manage_email
>
>

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[Marc Palmer Local]

On 13 Feb 2007, at 12:04, Steven Devijver wrote:

> Hey, that's my favorite fruit juice!

Hey, round here it's -everyone's- favourite fruit juice ;-)

It should say "Grails powered" on the cartons.

Marc


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[Marc Palmer Local]

On 13 Feb 2007, at 12:01, Alex Fuller wrote:

>
> Hi Marc,
>
> Without going into any compromising detail, I'd be interested to  
> know a bit
> about the functional scope of the back-end for the Tropicana site?  
> I'm just
> curious to know what level of functionality you're achieving in these
> timescales!

There's not much currently. Forms captured to ORM objects, visitor  
details maintained serparately in GORM, updated for each form  
submission (cookie binds a UID to each client). Form submissions also  
mailed to an account, but all this is configured in GORM using  
scaffolded UI.

Visitor data recall for every request (so we can do fancy things in  
future, for example on PJ we welcome people back to the site).

Copella has GORM based retrieval of content for Recipes + News, using  
scaffolding for a very raw back end.

Trivial authentication for the admin interface is used currently.

Marc


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[Russel Winder]

On Tue, 2007-02-13 at 13:04 +0100, Steven Devijver wrote:
> Hey, that's my favorite fruit juice!

> > http://www.tropicana.co.uk/

The orange juice tastes foul, we bought one once, tried it, and immediately poured it down the sink.

But this is off topic :-)

--
Russel.
====================================================
Dr Russel Winder                [phone]
41 Buckmaster Road              [phone]
London SW11 1EN, UK             russel@...

[graemer]

On 2/13/07, Russel Winder <russel@...> wrote:
> On Tue, 2007-02-13 at 13:04 +0100, Steven Devijver wrote:
> > Hey, that's my favorite fruit juice!
>
> > > http://www.tropicana.co.uk/
>
> The orange juice tastes foul, we bought one once, tried it, and immediately poured it down the sink.
>
> But this is off topic :-)

Don't know about the orange juice. The apple juice is good though ;-)

http://www.copellafruitjuices.co.uk/

As are the PJ smoothies

Cheers

>
> --
> Russel.
> ====================================================
> Dr Russel Winder                [phone]
> 41 Buckmaster Road              [phone]
> London SW11 1EN, UK             russel@...
>
>


--
Graeme Rocher
Grails Project Lead
http://grails.org

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[Scott Davis]

>
> To do a simple site like this again, for the grails part - once you  
> know your stuff - would be a lot less than 5 days I think.

5 days, interestingly, is what it took me to get aboutGroovy.com up  
and running -- start to finish. I had a couple of weeks (part-time)  
invested in a Blojsom prototype, but ended up throwing it away at the  
11th hour. I was pleasantly shocked at how quickly it all came  
together in Grails.

I had some initial reticence about using 0.x software in production,  
but then gave it some deeper thought. None of the underlying tech was  
anywhere close to 0.x -- Spring, Hibernate, SiteMesh, Tomcat, MySQL,  
etc. Even though Groovy was pre-1.0, I had over a year of experience  
with it in production software being sold to Fortune 500 companies.  
What finally convinced me to use Grails was the fact that I was going  
to assemble a nearly identical stack of software by hand if I chose  
not to go with Grails. That doesn't make much sense now, does it?

aboutGroovy is still running 0.3.1. It has been up and running since  
Dec '06. I'm porting right now to 0.4.1 to take advantage of the new  
plug-in support. Atom and RSS feeds are what I hope to contribute back.

Cheers,
Scott Davis
scott@...

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[Marc Palmer Local]

On 13 Feb 2007, at 16:58, Scott Davis wrote:

>>
>> To do a simple site like this again, for the grails part - once  
>> you know your stuff - would be a lot less than 5 days I think.
>
> 5 days, interestingly, is what it took me to get aboutGroovy.com up  
> and running -- start to finish. I had a couple of weeks (part-time)  
> invested in a Blojsom prototype, but ended up throwing it away at  
> the 11th hour. I was pleasantly shocked at how quickly it all came  
> together in Grails.
>
> I had some initial reticence about using 0.x software in  
> production, but then gave it some deeper thought. None of the  
> underlying tech was anywhere close to 0.x -- Spring, Hibernate,  
> SiteMesh, Tomcat, MySQL, etc. Even though Groovy was pre-1.0, I had  
> over a year of experience with it in production software being sold  
> to Fortune 500 companies. What finally convinced me to use Grails  
> was the fact that I was going to assemble a nearly identical stack  
> of software by hand if I chose not to go with Grails. That doesn't  
> make much sense now, does it?
>

I hear you!

> aboutGroovy is still running 0.3.1. It has been up and running  
> since Dec '06. I'm porting right now to 0.4.1 to take advantage of  
> the new plug-in support. Atom and RSS feeds are what I hope to  
> contribute back.

I was thinking we should get an RSSPlugin going using ROME? What do  
you guys think? I want to get cached RSS downloading in a plugin, as  
well as RSS production using a sane builder syntax that can output to  
any of ROME's supported formats. Not used ROME but it sounds like a  
good thing.

Marc


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[Scott Davis]

>
>> aboutGroovy is still running 0.3.1. It has been up and running  
>> since Dec '06. I'm porting right now to 0.4.1 to take advantage of  
>> the new plug-in support. Atom and RSS feeds are what I hope to  
>> contribute back.
>
> I was thinking we should get an RSSPlugin going using ROME? What do  
> you guys think? I want to get cached RSS downloading in a plugin,  
> as well as RSS production using a sane builder syntax that can  
> output to any of ROME's supported formats. Not used ROME but it  
> sounds like a good thing.
>

My take on ROME is that it is strong when trying to read various RSS  
dialects (0.9, 0.9.1, 1.0. 2.0, etc.), but kinda heavy-weight for  
writing. The Atom dialect is well defined and took me less than 50  
lines of code to implement by hand. For the work I'm doing for  
aboutGroovy (all outgoing feeds), I'm going to try to avoid  
dependencies on Rome if possible.

-s

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[Marc Palmer Local]

On 13 Feb 2007, at 17:41, Scott Davis wrote:

>>
>>> aboutGroovy is still running 0.3.1. It has been up and running  
>>> since Dec '06. I'm porting right now to 0.4.1 to take advantage  
>>> of the new plug-in support. Atom and RSS feeds are what I hope to  
>>> contribute back.
>>
>> I was thinking we should get an RSSPlugin going using ROME? What  
>> do you guys think? I want to get cached RSS downloading in a  
>> plugin, as well as RSS production using a sane builder syntax that  
>> can output to any of ROME's supported formats. Not used ROME but  
>> it sounds like a good thing.
>>
>
> My take on ROME is that it is strong when trying to read various  
> RSS dialects (0.9, 0.9.1, 1.0. 2.0, etc.), but kinda heavy-weight  
> for writing. The Atom dialect is well defined and took me less than  
> 50 lines of code to implement by hand. For the work I'm doing for  
> aboutGroovy (all outgoing feeds), I'm going to try to avoid  
> dependencies on Rome if possible.

OK. For a Grails plugin though I think we need to support all  
dialects, and production of feeds should be from a feed-format-
agnostic builder - so Rome sounded like a good fit. If it is  
heavyweight underneath that's not important, we can hide it with:

def feedOutput = new RSSBuilder()
feedOutput.feed {
    title('My feed')
    author(xxxx)
    items {
        item(desc:'Hello world', url:'http://www.grails.org')
    }
}

etc. and then some kind of feedOutput.write('RSS0.91', buffer)

Marc


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[Scott Davis]

>
>>>
>>>> aboutGroovy is still running 0.3.1. It has been up and running  
>>>> since Dec '06. I'm porting right now to 0.4.1 to take advantage  
>>>> of the new plug-in support. Atom and RSS feeds are what I hope  
>>>> to contribute back.
>>>
>>> I was thinking we should get an RSSPlugin going using ROME? What  
>>> do you guys think? I want to get cached RSS downloading in a  
>>> plugin, as well as RSS production using a sane builder syntax  
>>> that can output to any of ROME's supported formats. Not used ROME  
>>> but it sounds like a good thing.
>>>
>>
>> My take on ROME is that it is strong when trying to read various  
>> RSS dialects (0.9, 0.9.1, 1.0. 2.0, etc.), but kinda heavy-weight  
>> for writing. The Atom dialect is well defined and took me less  
>> than 50 lines of code to implement by hand. For the work I'm doing  
>> for aboutGroovy (all outgoing feeds), I'm going to try to avoid  
>> dependencies on Rome if possible.
>
> OK. For a Grails plugin though I think we need to support all  
> dialects, and production of feeds should be from a feed-format-
> agnostic builder - so Rome sounded like a good fit. If it is  
> heavyweight underneath that's not important, we can hide it with:
>
> def feedOutput = new RSSBuilder()
> feedOutput.feed {
>    title('My feed')
>    author(xxxx)
>    items {
>        item(desc:'Hello world', url:'http://www.grails.org')
>    }
> }
>
> etc. and then some kind of feedOutput.write('RSS0.91', buffer)
>

I'm not arguing with you -- just a word of advice. IMHO, supporting  
all 9 (!) dialects of RSS __for output__ seems to be of dubious  
value. Really, no modern website should be generating RSS 0.9 feeds.  
I would select RSS 2.0 and Atom 1.0 as the canonical output formats.  
The RSS wars of the late 1990s wasn't one of the proudest moments of  
our industry, and propagating the "dialect wars" in Grails seems  
counterproductive. The only reason I'm looking at RSS at all is that  
AFAICT iTunes doesn't support Atom for podcasting.

Once you have selected the output formats, I really think that you'll  
find it is easier/Groovier to use an XMLBuilder rather than ROME. For  
generating feeds, ROME can't even abstract away the difference  
between RSS and Atom, so you already lose much of the promise of the  
"unified" API. YMMV, of course. http://feedvalidator.org/ supports  
both RSS and Atom.

If your plug-in is trying to __read__ RSS/Atom feeds from the wild,  
then the Hibernate-like aspects of ROME are far more appealing. Since  
I don't need this functionality, I'm going to avoid the ROME  
dependency altogether for my plug-ins -- pure Groovy for me, thank  
you very much.

The good news is, we don't really need to agree on this at all. I  
have no beef with ROME or you using it. I'm just trying to offer up  
my experiences with it.

Cheers,
s






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[Marc Palmer Local]

On 13 Feb 2007, at 18:15, Scott Davis wrote:

>
> I'm not arguing with you -- just a word of advice. IMHO, supporting  
> all 9 (!) dialects of RSS __for output__ seems to be of dubious  
> value. Really, no modern website should be generating RSS 0.9  
> feeds. I would select RSS 2.0 and Atom 1.0 as the canonical output  
> formats. The RSS wars of the late 1990s wasn't one of the proudest  
> moments of our industry, and propagating the "dialect wars" in  
> Grails seems counterproductive. The only reason I'm looking at RSS  
> at all is that AFAICT iTunes doesn't support Atom for podcasting.
>
> Once you have selected the output formats, I really think that  
> you'll find it is easier/Groovier to use an XMLBuilder rather than  
> ROME. For generating feeds, ROME can't even abstract away the  
> difference between RSS and Atom, so you already lose much of the  
> promise of the "unified" API. YMMV, of course. http://
> feedvalidator.org/ supports both RSS and Atom.
>
> If your plug-in is trying to __read__ RSS/Atom feeds from the wild,  
> then the Hibernate-like aspects of ROME are far more appealing.  
> Since I don't need this functionality, I'm going to avoid the ROME  
> dependency altogether for my plug-ins -- pure Groovy for me, thank  
> you very much.
>
> The good news is, we don't really need to agree on this at all. I  
> have no beef with ROME or you using it. I'm just trying to offer up  
> my experiences with it.
>

Hey no beef, I prefer tofu!

Seriously, your experience is valued. You're right about output  
formats... although it is not really for us grails devs to dictate /  
second guess what people want to do. Some people might have a  
concrete requirement for RSS 0.9, but if so they could contrib  
support for it :)

Marc


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