Any interest in using git for scm?

[Darren Weber-4]

After listening to Linus Torvalds talk about git and looking at a video tutorial from Scott Chacon, it would seem beneficial to use git for MacPorts development.  It appears that git can be used with an existing svn repository (man git-svn), or the svn repository could be imported into a new master git repository (perhaps host it with github).  Is anyone currently using git for MacPorts development?

After a few tips from MacPorts gurus and some experiments, I was able to draft the instructions at

Create an experimental users directory in the MacPorts Subversion repository

http://trac.macports.org/wiki/CommittersTipsAndTricks

The merge process with svn takes a while to grok, but it works OK.  Is anyone having an easier time with git?

The resources here are helpful in learning git:
http://www.linuxfoundation.org/search/node/git

Take care,
Darren


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[Blair Zajac]

On Nov 5, 2009, at 5:46 PM, Darren Weber wrote:

>
> After listening to Linus Torvalds talk about git and looking at a  
> video tutorial from Scott Chacon, it would seem beneficial to use  
> git for MacPorts development.  It appears that git can be used with  
> an existing svn repository (man git-svn), or the svn repository  
> could be imported into a new master git repository (perhaps host it  
> with github).  Is anyone currently using git for MacPorts development?
>
> After a few tips from MacPorts gurus and some experiments, I was  
> able to draft the instructions at
> Create an experimental users directory in the MacPorts Subversion  
> repository
>
> http://trac.macports.org/wiki/CommittersTipsAndTricks
>
> The merge process with svn takes a while to grok, but it works OK.  
> Is anyone having an easier time with git?
>
> The resources here are helpful in learning git:
> http://www.linuxfoundation.org/search/node/git

While I use git svn on a daily on my own source code projects, I don't  
see the value in migrating from svn over to git for MacPorts for the  
repository.  Nothing stopping people from using git to checkout from  
svn.

Also, I don't keep a local svn checkout of the dports portion of the  
repository and the one thing I do when I want to update a port is just  
checkout the directory of the port I'm updating, which is a feature  
Subversion supports that git doesn't.

Regards,
Blair

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[dreamcat four]

Hi,
Checkouts are always many times faster under git. Even small projects.

I'm not a macports committer, but if you want to continue with svn,
and add git then i'd recommend to look at the PHP project. Some guys
there have come up with some great scripts to help the two work better
together.

http://github.com/php/php-svn-helpers
http://github.com/php/php-mirror-scripts

Guess you just cron the mirror-script every hour or something.
Good luck!

On Fri, Nov 6, 2009 at 1:46 AM, Darren Weber <dweber@...> wrote:

>
> After listening to Linus Torvalds talk about git and looking at a video
> tutorial from Scott Chacon, it would seem beneficial to use git for MacPorts
> development.  It appears that git can be used with an existing svn
> repository (man git-svn), or the svn repository could be imported into a new
> master git repository (perhaps host it with github).  Is anyone currently
> using git for MacPorts development?
>
> After a few tips from MacPorts gurus and some experiments, I was able to
> draft the instructions at
>
> Create an experimental users directory in the MacPorts Subversion repository
>
> http://trac.macports.org/wiki/CommittersTipsAndTricks
>
> The merge process with svn takes a while to grok, but it works OK.  Is
> anyone having an easier time with git?
>
> The resources here are helpful in learning git:
> http://www.linuxfoundation.org/search/node/git
>
> Take care,
> Darren
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> macports-dev mailing list
> macports-dev@...
> http://lists.macosforge.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/macports-dev
>
>

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[William Siegrist]

On Nov 5, 2009, at 5:46 PM, Darren Weber wrote:

>
> After listening to Linus Torvalds talk about git and looking at a video tutorial from Scott Chacon, it would seem beneficial to use git for MacPorts development.  It appears that git can be used with an existing svn repository (man git-svn), or the svn repository could be imported into a new master git repository (perhaps host it with github).  Is anyone currently using git for MacPorts development?
>

Mac OS Forge (the hosting provider MacPorts lives on) does not currently provide read-write git repos. But we do provide a git mirror of the svn repo.  That at least saves you some time when creating your local git repo.

https://www.macosforge.org/post/git-mirrors/

-Bill



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[Darren Weber-4]

On Fri, Nov 6, 2009 at 10:49 AM, William Siegrist <wsiegrist@...> wrote:

On Nov 5, 2009, at 5:46 PM, Darren Weber wrote:

>

> After listening to Linus Torvalds talk about git and looking at a video tutorial from Scott Chacon, it would seem beneficial to use git for MacPorts development.  It appears that git can be used with an existing svn repository (man git-svn), or the svn repository could be imported into a new master git repository (perhaps host it with github).  Is anyone currently using git for MacPorts development?
>

Mac OS Forge (the hosting provider MacPorts lives on) does not currently provide read-write git repos. But we do provide a git mirror of the svn repo.  That at least saves you some time when creating your local git repo.

https://www.macosforge.org/post/git-mirrors/

-Bill

Hey Bill,

So this means the MacPorts svn tree is already in a git repo that is in sync with the svn repo - nice!  Thank you for the reference!

This is helpful, for sure:
http://trac.webkit.org/wiki/UsingGitWithWebKit

I found these MacPort installs to be useful:
sudo port install git-core +bash_completion +doc +svn +gitweb
sudo port install gc-utils
sudo port install qgit GitX

One thing in using git with MacPorts is that a remote clone requires the -u option to specify a non-default path for the location of the git binary on the remote server (when the remote server has git installed from MacPorts).  That is, on the "client" that connects to a "macports-server", run:

git clone -u /opt/local/bin/git-upload-pack <SRC_REPO_URL> <DIR>

The MacPorts svn checkout is about 230Mb, including:

$ ls macports/
Makefile  base/  doc/  doc-new/  dports/  www/

It's about 11,000 files (without .svn files):
$ /opt/local/bin/gfind ./macports -type f | awk '!/.svn/' | wc -l
   10826

That should be manageable with git.  There is the limitation that git cannot checkout a subset of the tree (like macports/dports/devel/gc-utils).

In general, it is very interesting to see how git has evolved to solve the challenges of distributed source code development for the linux kernel.  It's able to handle thousands of files and hundreds or thousands of contributors, with high performance and integrity criteria.  While it's healthy to maintain some scepticism about drinking any particular flavor of cool-aid, the git cool-aid looks impressive ;-)  After listening to the Google tech talk from Linus, one of the most striking things about git is the sha1 hash to maintain integrity in the repo objects (other significant features include the distributed repos for local work, true 'content' management [full patches, not just file management], staging commits like a transaction, easier and faster merging, etc.).  The sha1 is used to guarantee that what goes in is exactly what comes out.  As he put it, this evolved from an attempt to hack the linux source code when it was managed under BitKeeper (which did provide a detection for the hacks).  It's not exactly a security feature, it provides an integrity check and a byproduct of that is the ability to detect corruption.  The distributed nature of the git repos is also a default backup system of a sort.

Given the sha1 integrity checks in git (not available in any other scm yet?), an import of source code from cvs, svn etc. into git is a persuasive argument.  Are there any faults or gaps in that argument?

Best,
Darren

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[Blair Zajac]

On Nov 6, 2009, at 10:46 AM, dreamcat four wrote:

> Hi,
> Checkouts are always many times faster under git. Even small projects.

That's being worked on for the 1.7 release.  We're moving to the model  
with a single top level .svn directory instead of a .svn directory per  
directory in the checkout so there's a lot less IO that has to be done.

Blair

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[Akira Kitada-2]

Hello Darren,

I posted a similar question on the list before and failed :-)

http://marc.info/?t=124395706900073&r=1&w=2

On Fri, Nov 6, 2009 at 10:46 AM, Darren Weber <dweber@...> wrote:

>
> After listening to Linus Torvalds talk about git and looking at a video
> tutorial from Scott Chacon, it would seem beneficial to use git for MacPorts
> development.  It appears that git can be used with an existing svn
> repository (man git-svn), or the svn repository could be imported into a new
> master git repository (perhaps host it with github).  Is anyone currently
> using git for MacPorts development?
>
> After a few tips from MacPorts gurus and some experiments, I was able to
> draft the instructions at
>
> Create an experimental users directory in the MacPorts Subversion repository
>
> http://trac.macports.org/wiki/CommittersTipsAndTricks
>
> The merge process with svn takes a while to grok, but it works OK.  Is
> anyone having an easier time with git?
>
> The resources here are helpful in learning git:
> http://www.linuxfoundation.org/search/node/git
>
> Take care,
> Darren
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> macports-dev mailing list
> macports-dev@...
> http://lists.macosforge.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/macports-dev
>
>

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[Darren Weber-4]

Interesting thread.  Has there been any change in git-svn to support keywords like Id?

On Fri, Nov 6, 2009 at 8:03 PM, Akira Kitada <akitada@...> wrote:

Hello Darren,

I posted a similar question on the list before and failed :-)

http://marc.info/?t=124395706900073&r=1&w=2

On Fri, Nov 6, 2009 at 10:46 AM, Darren Weber <dweber@...> wrote:
>
> After listening to Linus Torvalds talk about git and looking at a video
> tutorial from Scott Chacon, it would seem beneficial to use git for MacPorts
> development.  It appears that git can be used with an existing svn
> repository (man git-svn), or the svn repository could be imported into a new
> master git repository (perhaps host it with github).  Is anyone currently
> using git for MacPorts development?
>
> After a few tips from MacPorts gurus and some experiments, I was able to
> draft the instructions at
>
> Create an experimental users directory in the MacPorts Subversion repository
>
> http://trac.macports.org/wiki/CommittersTipsAndTricks
>
> The merge process with svn takes a while to grok, but it works OK.  Is
> anyone having an easier time with git?
>
> The resources here are helpful in learning git:
> http://www.linuxfoundation.org/search/node/git
>
> Take care,
> Darren
>
>

> _______________________________________________
> macports-dev mailing list
> macports-dev@...
> http://lists.macosforge.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/macports-dev
>
>

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[Darren Weber-4]

In any case, regardless of keyword problems (if they persist in git-svn), I'm glad to know that the svn repo is also in a git repo that is tracking the svn.  The git repo should provide more integrity than the svn repo and a reliable backup for the centralized svn repo.  (I have no idea, but I assume the Mac OS Forge guys have a backup system all wrapped up anyway, so not to worry about that.)  The point is that the algorithms in git for sha1 checks are not available in any other scm, AFAIK.

One advantage of the sha1 hash is that it provides a truly unique ID for any commit, which probably surpasses the purpose of any $Id$ and other keywords for tracking commits.  Using global config settings, like user.name and user.email, the commits are automatically identified by the developer/commiter and they are useful in 'git blame'.  Looking at the git log --graph or using gitk and other git GUI tools gives a nice graph of the branch and commit history.  It seems easy to identify where any changes came from.  No need for an Id guidelines and associated developer conformity ;-)  (That may be one reason that git doesn't support keywords ;-)).

Take care,
Darren

PPS, For keyword issues, see:
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/39742/does-git-have-anything-like-svn-propset-svnkeywords-or-pre-post-commit-hooks
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/62264/dealing-with-svn-keyword-expansion-with-git-svn#72874

On Fri, Nov 6, 2009 at 8:03 PM, Akira Kitada <akitada@...> wrote:

Hello Darren,

I posted a similar question on the list before and failed :-)

http://marc.info/?t=124395706900073&r=1&w=2

On Fri, Nov 6, 2009 at 10:46 AM, Darren Weber <dweber@...> wrote:
>
> After listening to Linus Torvalds talk about git and looking at a video
> tutorial from Scott Chacon, it would seem beneficial to use git for MacPorts
> development.  It appears that git can be used with an existing svn
> repository (man git-svn), or the svn repository could be imported into a new
> master git repository (perhaps host it with github).  Is anyone currently
> using git for MacPorts development?
>
> After a few tips from MacPorts gurus and some experiments, I was able to
> draft the instructions at
>
> Create an experimental users directory in the MacPorts Subversion repository
>
> http://trac.macports.org/wiki/CommittersTipsAndTricks
>
> The merge process with svn takes a while to grok, but it works OK.  Is
> anyone having an easier time with git?
>
> The resources here are helpful in learning git:
> http://www.linuxfoundation.org/search/node/git
>
> Take care,
> Darren
>
>

> _______________________________________________
> macports-dev mailing list
> macports-dev@...
> http://lists.macosforge.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/macports-dev
>
>

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[Darren Weber-4]

On Fri, Nov 6, 2009 at 9:05 PM, Darren Weber <dweber@...> wrote:

In any case, regardless of keyword problems (if they persist in git-svn), I'm glad to know that the svn repo is also in a git repo that is tracking the svn.  The git repo should provide more integrity than the svn repo and a reliable backup for the centralized svn repo.  (I have no idea, but I assume the Mac OS Forge guys have a backup system all wrapped up anyway, so not to worry about that.)  The point is that the algorithms in git for sha1 checks are not available in any other scm, AFAIK.

One advantage of the sha1 hash is that it provides a truly unique ID for any commit, which probably surpasses the purpose of any $Id$ and other keywords for tracking commits.  Using global config settings, like user.name and user.email, the commits are automatically identified by the developer/commiter and they are useful in 'git blame'.  Looking at the git log --graph or using gitk and other git GUI tools gives a nice graph of the branch and commit history.  It seems easy to identify where any changes came from.  No need for an Id guidelines and associated developer conformity ;-)  (That may be one reason that git doesn't support keywords ;-)).

Take care,
Darren

PPS, For keyword issues, see:
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/39742/does-git-have-anything-like-svn-propset-svnkeywords-or-pre-post-commit-hooks
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/62264/dealing-with-svn-keyword-expansion-with-git-svn#72874

PS, Useful similarities between git and svn commands:
http://git.or.cz/course/svn.html



 

On Fri, Nov 6, 2009 at 8:03 PM, Akira Kitada <akitada@...> wrote:

Hello Darren,

I posted a similar question on the list before and failed :-)

http://marc.info/?t=124395706900073&r=1&w=2

On Fri, Nov 6, 2009 at 10:46 AM, Darren Weber <dweber@...> wrote:
>
> After listening to Linus Torvalds talk about git and looking at a video
> tutorial from Scott Chacon, it would seem beneficial to use git for MacPorts
> development.  It appears that git can be used with an existing svn
> repository (man git-svn), or the svn repository could be imported into a new
> master git repository (perhaps host it with github).  Is anyone currently
> using git for MacPorts development?
>
> After a few tips from MacPorts gurus and some experiments, I was able to
> draft the instructions at
>
> Create an experimental users directory in the MacPorts Subversion repository
>
> http://trac.macports.org/wiki/CommittersTipsAndTricks
>
> The merge process with svn takes a while to grok, but it works OK.  Is
> anyone having an easier time with git?
>
> The resources here are helpful in learning git:
> http://www.linuxfoundation.org/search/node/git
>
> Take care,
> Darren
>
>

> _______________________________________________
> macports-dev mailing list
> macports-dev@...
> http://lists.macosforge.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/macports-dev
>
>

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[Akira Kitada-2]

Not sure about git but Mercurial does have an extension for it
http://mercurial.selenic.com/wiki/KeywordExtension

On Sat, Nov 7, 2009 at 1:47 PM, Darren Weber <dweber@...> wrote:

>
> Interesting thread.  Has there been any change in git-svn to support
> keywords like Id?
>
>
> On Fri, Nov 6, 2009 at 8:03 PM, Akira Kitada <akitada@...> wrote:
>>
>> Hello Darren,
>>
>> I posted a similar question on the list before and failed :-)
>>
>> http://marc.info/?t=124395706900073&r=1&w=2
>>
>> On Fri, Nov 6, 2009 at 10:46 AM, Darren Weber <dweber@...> wrote:
>> >
>> > After listening to Linus Torvalds talk about git and looking at a video
>> > tutorial from Scott Chacon, it would seem beneficial to use git for
>> > MacPorts
>> > development.  It appears that git can be used with an existing svn
>> > repository (man git-svn), or the svn repository could be imported into a
>> > new
>> > master git repository (perhaps host it with github).  Is anyone
>> > currently
>> > using git for MacPorts development?
>> >
>> > After a few tips from MacPorts gurus and some experiments, I was able to
>> > draft the instructions at
>> >
>> > Create an experimental users directory in the MacPorts Subversion
>> > repository
>> >
>> > http://trac.macports.org/wiki/CommittersTipsAndTricks
>> >
>> > The merge process with svn takes a while to grok, but it works OK.  Is
>> > anyone having an easier time with git?
>> >
>> > The resources here are helpful in learning git:
>> > http://www.linuxfoundation.org/search/node/git
>> >
>> > Take care,
>> > Darren
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > macports-dev mailing list
>> > macports-dev@...
>> > http://lists.macosforge.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/macports-dev
>> >
>> >
>
>

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[Blair Zajac]

On Nov 6, 2009, at 12:12 PM, Darren Weber wrote:

>
>
> On Fri, Nov 6, 2009 at 10:49 AM, William Siegrist  
> <wsiegrist@...> wrote:
> On Nov 5, 2009, at 5:46 PM, Darren Weber wrote:
>
> >
> > After listening to Linus Torvalds talk about git and looking at a  
> video tutorial from Scott Chacon, it would seem beneficial to use  
> git for MacPorts development.  It appears that git can be used with  
> an existing svn repository (man git-svn), or the svn repository  
> could be imported into a new master git repository (perhaps host it  
> with github).  Is anyone currently using git for MacPorts development?
> >
>
> Mac OS Forge (the hosting provider MacPorts lives on) does not  
> currently provide read-write git repos. But we do provide a git  
> mirror of the svn repo.  That at least saves you some time when  
> creating your local git repo.
>
> https://www.macosforge.org/post/git-mirrors/
>
> -Bill
>
> In general, it is very interesting to see how git has evolved to  
> solve the challenges of distributed source code development for the  
> linux kernel.  It's able to handle thousands of files and hundreds  
> or thousands of contributors, with high performance and integrity  
> criteria.  While it's healthy to maintain some scepticism about  
> drinking any particular flavor of cool-aid, the git cool-aid looks  
> impressive ;-)  After listening to the Google tech talk from Linus,  
> one of the most striking things about git is the sha1 hash to  
> maintain integrity in the repo objects (other significant features  
> include the distributed repos for local work, true 'content'  
> management [full patches, not just file management], staging commits  
> like a transaction, easier and faster merging, etc.).  The sha1 is  
> used to guarantee that what goes in is exactly what comes out.  As  
> he put it, this evolved from an attempt to hack the linux source  
> code when it was managed under BitKeeper (which did provide a  
> detection for the hacks).  It's not exactly a security feature, it  
> provides an integrity check and a byproduct of that is the ability  
> to detect corruption.  The distributed nature of the git repos is  
> also a default backup system of a sort.
>
> Given the sha1 integrity checks in git (not available in any other  
> scm yet?), an import of source code from cvs, svn etc. into git is a  
> persuasive argument.  Are there any faults or gaps in that argument?

Don't drink too much of the cool aid :)

Subversion maintains a md5 hash of all committed items and does  
consistency checks upon them when there are any operations.  There are  
hashes in the repository and in the client side checkouts to ensure  
that all operations are done correctly.

Subversion 1.7 is going to be using sha1 hashes in some places where  
md5 hashes are currently used.

Blair

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[Blair Zajac]

Darren Weber wrote:
>
> In any case, regardless of keyword problems (if they persist in
> git-svn), I'm glad to know that the svn repo is also in a git repo that
> is tracking the svn.  The git repo should provide more integrity than
> the svn repo and a reliable backup for the centralized svn repo.  (I
> have no idea, but I assume the Mac OS Forge guys have a backup system
> all wrapped up anyway, so not to worry about that.)  The point is that
> the algorithms in git for sha1 checks are not available in any other
> scm, AFAIK.

How does a git repo provide more integrity than svn?  There's nothing else in
svn than we do to ensure that the repository and working copies are correctly
protected.

Before making comparisions between git and svn, please do ask about the svn
implementation.  I get the sense you've already decided and are interested about
making a fair comparison.

> One advantage of the sha1 hash is that it provides a truly unique ID for
> any commit, which probably surpasses the purpose of any $Id$ and other
> keywords for tracking commits.  Using global config settings, like
> user.name <http://user.name> and user.email, the commits are
> automatically identified by the developer/commiter and they are useful
> in 'git blame'.  Looking at the git log --graph or using gitk and other
> git GUI tools gives a nice graph of the branch and commit history.  It
> seems easy to identify where any changes came from.  No need for an Id
> guidelines and associated developer conformity ;-)  (That may be one
> reason that git doesn't support keywords ;-)).

The svn revision number is just as unique as the sha1 hash, in fact, guaranteed
to be unique, unlike the extremely remote possibility that you get sha1 hash
collision.

The $Id$ doesn't provide anything to track, it's just there so you can see
without a svn log who last made the commit.

Blair

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[Thomas de Grivel-5]

2009/11/6 Blair Zajac <blair@...>:

>
> On Nov 5, 2009, at 5:46 PM, Darren Weber wrote:
>
>>
>> After listening to Linus Torvalds talk about git and looking at a video
>> tutorial from Scott Chacon, it would seem beneficial to use git for MacPorts
>> development.  It appears that git can be used with an existing svn
>> repository (man git-svn), or the svn repository could be imported into a new
>> master git repository (perhaps host it with github).  Is anyone currently
>> using git for MacPorts development?
>>
>> After a few tips from MacPorts gurus and some experiments, I was able to
>> draft the instructions at
>> Create an experimental users directory in the MacPorts Subversion
>> repository
>>
>> http://trac.macports.org/wiki/CommittersTipsAndTricks
>>
>> The merge process with svn takes a while to grok, but it works OK.  Is
>> anyone having an easier time with git?
>>
>> The resources here are helpful in learning git:
>> http://www.linuxfoundation.org/search/node/git
>
> While I use git svn on a daily on my own source code projects, I don't see
> the value in migrating from svn over to git for MacPorts for the repository.
>  Nothing stopping people from using git to checkout from svn.
>
> Also, I don't keep a local svn checkout of the dports portion of the
> repository and the one thing I do when I want to update a port is just
> checkout the directory of the port I'm updating, which is a feature
> Subversion supports that git doesn't.

The main interest would be for very easy create / merge of overlays as
branches, it could be much stimulating from an open-source with many
contributors point of view. Non-macports devs could be provided same
SCM tools as MacPorts commiters, while still needing them for
integration into MacPorts when stable.

This could provide easy sub-communities of testers while providing
everyone with the official, stable, ports tree.

I also would say that I also switched recently to git for a few of my
own projects and am very pleased. It is much faster and helps commits
to be really atomic, both because it's not reliant on network. Also
backing up / providing a git tree is really easy, as simple as copying
a directory. Even server-side I am glad to progressively saying
goodbye to subversion's fsfs and webdav (..yuck).

--
 Thomas de Grivel
 http://www.lowh.net/
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