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Appearance properties
Hi,
In GNOME 2.28 some default settings changed for the desktop:
1) In toolbar, text is next to icon instead of below.
2) Icons got removed from menus.
3) Icons got removed from action buttons in dialogs.
1 and 2 were still configurable from gnome-appearance-properties, 3 was
not possible to change (Bug #595341).
And now the whole interface tab was dropped. Making 1, 2 and 3 not
configurable anymore (Bug #592756).
Am I the only one to think something really insane is happening? It
seems all those decisions are taken by a few developers that like
that... This impact the whole desktop and is very visible to all users,
so I think the discussion should be wider. That's why I'm posting here.
So if you agree/disagree with those changes, please tell your opinion! I
would like to know if I'm the only one to be worried.
Regards,
Xavier Claessens.
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RE: Appearance properties
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I'm also concerned regarding that process. My proposal is that developers should enable in Appearance menu some configuration options regarding this issue.
It is not so hard to implement.
Uros ----------------------------------------------- "Every kind of peaceful cooperation among men is primarily based on mutual trust and only secondarily on institutions such as courts of justice and police." - Albert Einstein (1879 - 1955) > Subject: Appearance properties > From: xclaesse@...> To: desktop-devel-list@...> Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 10:18:36 +0100 > > Hi, > > In GNOME 2.28 some default settings changed for the desktop: > 1) In toolbar, text is next to icon instead of below. > 2) Icons got removed from menus. > 3) Icons got removed from action buttons in dialogs. > > 1 and 2 were still configurable from gnome-appearance-properties, 3 was > not possible to change (Bug #595341). > > And now the whole interface tab was dropped. Making 1, 2 and 3 not > configurable anymore (Bug #592756). > > Am I the only one to think something really insane is happening? It > seems all those decisions are taken by a few developers that like > that... This impact the whole desktop and is very visible to all users, > so I think the discussion should be wider. That's why I'm posting here. > > So if you agree/disagree with those changes, please tell your opinion! I > would like to know if I'm the only one to be worried. > > Regards, > Xavier Claessens. > > _______________________________________________ > desktop-devel-list mailing list > desktop-devel-list@...> http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
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RE: Appearance properties
+1
Le mardi 10 novembre 2009 à 10:28 +0100, Uros Nedic a écrit :
> I'm also concerned regarding that process. My proposal is that
> developers should enable in Appearance menu some configuration
> options regarding this issue.
>
>
> It is not so hard to implement.
>
>
> Uros
>
>
> -----------------------------------------------
> "Every kind of peaceful cooperation among men
> is primarily based on mutual trust and only
> secondarily on institutions such as courts of
> justice and police."
>
> - Albert Einstein (1879 - 1955)
>
>
>
> > Subject: Appearance properties
> > From: xclaesse@...
> > To: desktop-devel-list@...
> > Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 10:18:36 +0100
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > In GNOME 2.28 some default settings changed for the desktop:
> > 1) In toolbar, text is next to icon instead of below.
> > 2) Icons got removed from menus.
> > 3) Icons got removed from action buttons in dialogs.
> >
> > 1 and 2 were still configurable from gnome-appearance-properties, 3
> was
> > not possible to change (Bug #595341).
> >
> > And now the whole interface tab was dropped. Making 1, 2 and 3 not
> > configurable anymore (Bug #592756).
> >
> > Am I the only one to think something really insane is happening? It
> > seems all those decisions are taken by a few developers that like
> > that... This impact the whole desktop and is very visible to all
> users,
> > so I think the discussion should be wider. That's why I'm posting
> here.
> >
> > So if you agree/disagree with those changes, please tell your
> opinion! I
> > would like to know if I'm the only one to be worried.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Xavier Claessens.
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > desktop-devel-list mailing list
> > desktop-devel-list@...
> > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list>
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________________
> Windows Live Hotmail: Your friends can get your Facebook updates,
> right from Hotmail®.
> _______________________________________________
> desktop-devel-list mailing list
> desktop-devel-list@...
> http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list_______________________________________________
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Re: Appearance properties
On Tue, 2009-11-10 at 10:18 +0100, Xavier Claessens wrote:
> Hi,
>
> In GNOME 2.28 some default settings changed for the desktop:
> 1) In toolbar, text is next to icon instead of below.
> 2) Icons got removed from menus.
> 3) Icons got removed from action buttons in dialogs.
>
> 1 and 2 were still configurable from gnome-appearance-properties, 3 was
> not possible to change (Bug #595341).
>
> And now the whole interface tab was dropped. Making 1, 2 and 3 not
> configurable anymore (Bug #592756).
>
> Am I the only one to think something really insane is happening? It
> seems all those decisions are taken by a few developers that like
> that... This impact the whole desktop and is very visible to all users,
> so I think the discussion should be wider. That's why I'm posting here.
>
> So if you agree/disagree with those changes, please tell your opinion! I
> would like to know if I'm the only one to be worried.
While I generally trust designers in their judgement and I agree that
there was an icon overload, I now often feel a lack of icons. My menu
usage has slowed down because I now have to read everything instead of
being able to rely on icons.
Having a ton of icons is certainly not good, but is there anything that
shows that having none at all is better?
Ruben
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 Re: RE: Appearance properties
I agree with Xavier. In the bug report they say this should be moved to a tweak application but isn't this capplet already a tweak application?
I don't really see why we should disperse our efforts in two applications with the same purpose and it only make things more confusing for the users
On Nov 10, 2009 10:39 AM, "Jean Bréfort" <jean.brefort@...> wrote:
+1
Le mardi 10 novembre 2009 à 10:28 +0100, Uros Nedic a écrit :
> I'm also concerned regarding that process. My proposal is that
> developers should enable in Appea...
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Re: Appearance properties
On Tue, 2009-11-10 at 10:18 +0100, Xavier Claessens wrote:
> So if you agree/disagree with those changes, please tell your opinion!
> I would like to know if I'm the only one to be worried.
Well, I'll repeat what I said on the bug:
I agree with McCann, if someone wants to tweak their settings in such a
way, then it should be done through an appropriate "tweaks" application.
The interface tab does not contain options that are of interest to the
majority of users.
Please don't revert the status of bugs to "unconfirmed". The bug status
is "fixed" since the issue reported in the bug has been fixed.
Regards,
Thomas
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Re: RE: Appearance properties
On Tue, 2009-11-10 at 11:14 +0100, Olivier Le Thanh Duong wrote:
> I agree with Xavier. In the bug report they say this should be moved
> to a tweak application but isn't this capplet already a tweak
> application?
A tweak application is would be one that changes little-used and low
importance preferences.
The Appearance capplet includes three sections. "Background" is probably
most used, "Font" is of high importance (for accessibility) and "Theme"
is probably a medium priority preference.
Regards,
Thomas
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Re: Appearance properties
Le mardi 10 novembre 2009 à 10:19 +0000, Thomas Wood a écrit :
> On Tue, 2009-11-10 at 10:18 +0100, Xavier Claessens wrote:
> > So if you agree/disagree with those changes, please tell your opinion!
> > I would like to know if I'm the only one to be worried.
>
> Well, I'll repeat what I said on the bug:
>
> I agree with McCann, if someone wants to tweak their settings in such a
> way, then it should be done through an appropriate "tweaks" application.
> The interface tab does not contain options that are of interest to the
> majority of users.
Can you please tell me what's gnome-appearance-properties if it is not
to tweak the appearance of the GNOME desktop?
The fact that those options are useless for the majority of users is
highly debatable and should definitely not depend on you+McCann alone. I
would like wider acceptance before.
I definitely give a -1, but if I'm alone then ignore me ;)
Xavier Claessens.
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Re: RE: Appearance properties
Le mardi 10 novembre 2009 à 10:24 +0000, Thomas Wood a écrit :
> On Tue, 2009-11-10 at 11:14 +0100, Olivier Le Thanh Duong wrote:
> > I agree with Xavier. In the bug report they say this should be moved
> > to a tweak application but isn't this capplet already a tweak
> > application?
>
> A tweak application is would be one that changes little-used and low
> importance preferences.
>
> The Appearance capplet includes three sections. "Background" is probably
> most used, "Font" is of high importance (for accessibility) and "Theme"
> is probably a medium priority preference.
I think, but could be wrong, that tab was indeed useless... until the
sane default changed and became unusable/ugly... now it is really useful
to get back to previous configuration, so the interface tab is now
really important.
Xavier Claessens.
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Re: Appearance properties
On Tue, 2009-11-10 at 11:28 +0100, Xavier Claessens wrote:
> Le mardi 10 novembre 2009 à 10:19 +0000, Thomas Wood a écrit :
> > On Tue, 2009-11-10 at 10:18 +0100, Xavier Claessens wrote:
> > > So if you agree/disagree with those changes, please tell your opinion!
> > > I would like to know if I'm the only one to be worried.
> >
> > Well, I'll repeat what I said on the bug:
> >
> > I agree with McCann, if someone wants to tweak their settings in such a
> > way, then it should be done through an appropriate "tweaks" application.
> > The interface tab does not contain options that are of interest to the
> > majority of users.
>
> Can you please tell me what's gnome-appearance-properties if it is not
> to tweak the appearance of the GNOME desktop?
>
> The fact that those options are useless for the majority of users is
> highly debatable and should definitely not depend on you+McCann alone. I
> would like wider acceptance before.
>
> I definitely give a -1, but if I'm alone then ignore me ;)
You're confusing this place for a democracy :)
We might as well enable Bugzilla voting otherwise.
The reasons behind the move have been documented, and explanations given
on how to get the icons back.
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Re: Appearance properties
Le mardi 10 novembre 2009 à 10:56 +0000, Bastien Nocera a écrit :
> On Tue, 2009-11-10 at 11:28 +0100, Xavier Claessens wrote:
> > Le mardi 10 novembre 2009 à 10:19 +0000, Thomas Wood a écrit :
> > > On Tue, 2009-11-10 at 10:18 +0100, Xavier Claessens wrote:
> > > > So if you agree/disagree with those changes, please tell your opinion!
> > > > I would like to know if I'm the only one to be worried.
> > >
> > > Well, I'll repeat what I said on the bug:
> > >
> > > I agree with McCann, if someone wants to tweak their settings in such a
> > > way, then it should be done through an appropriate "tweaks" application.
> > > The interface tab does not contain options that are of interest to the
> > > majority of users.
> >
> > Can you please tell me what's gnome-appearance-properties if it is not
> > to tweak the appearance of the GNOME desktop?
> >
> > The fact that those options are useless for the majority of users is
> > highly debatable and should definitely not depend on you+McCann alone. I
> > would like wider acceptance before.
> >
> > I definitely give a -1, but if I'm alone then ignore me ;)
>
> You're confusing this place for a democracy :)
>
> We might as well enable Bugzilla voting otherwise.
>
> The reasons behind the move have been documented, and explanations given
> on how to get the icons back.
Actually I started this thread because starting from today, GNOME does
not have any way to get icons back anymore. gconf-editor is not
considered a "tweak application" ;-)
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Re: Appearance properties
On Tue, 2009-11-10 at 12:08 +0100, Xavier Claessens wrote:
> Le mardi 10 novembre 2009 à 10:56 +0000, Bastien Nocera a écrit :
> > On Tue, 2009-11-10 at 11:28 +0100, Xavier Claessens wrote:
> > > Le mardi 10 novembre 2009 à 10:19 +0000, Thomas Wood a écrit :
> > > > On Tue, 2009-11-10 at 10:18 +0100, Xavier Claessens wrote:
> > > > > So if you agree/disagree with those changes, please tell your opinion!
> > > > > I would like to know if I'm the only one to be worried.
> > > >
> > > > Well, I'll repeat what I said on the bug:
> > > >
> > > > I agree with McCann, if someone wants to tweak their settings in such a
> > > > way, then it should be done through an appropriate "tweaks" application.
> > > > The interface tab does not contain options that are of interest to the
> > > > majority of users.
> > >
> > > Can you please tell me what's gnome-appearance-properties if it is not
> > > to tweak the appearance of the GNOME desktop?
> > >
> > > The fact that those options are useless for the majority of users is
> > > highly debatable and should definitely not depend on you+McCann alone. I
> > > would like wider acceptance before.
> > >
> > > I definitely give a -1, but if I'm alone then ignore me ;)
> >
> > You're confusing this place for a democracy :)
> >
> > We might as well enable Bugzilla voting otherwise.
> >
> > The reasons behind the move have been documented, and explanations given
> > on how to get the icons back.
>
> Actually I started this thread because starting from today, GNOME does
> not have any way to get icons back anymore. gconf-editor is not
> considered a "tweak application" ;-)
That's because when we mentioned the "tweak application" in the past, we
postponed decisions until somebody wrote that elusive application.
Nobody did. So we remove the functionality, and if you care enough,
you'll write that tweak application.
See this on how you could implement it:
http://fagonfoss.com/blog/?p=414Cheers
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Re: RE: Appearance properties
On Tue, 2009-11-10 at 11:50 +0100, Xavier Claessens wrote:
> > A tweak application is would be one that changes little-used and low
> > importance preferences.
> >
> > The Appearance capplet includes three sections. "Background" is probably
> > most used, "Font" is of high importance (for accessibility) and "Theme"
> > is probably a medium priority preference.
>
> I think, but could be wrong, that tab was indeed useless... until the
> sane default changed and became unusable/ugly...
*for you*.
personally, I like the current default very much.
> now it is really useful
> to get back to previous configuration, so the interface tab is now
> really important.
if it really is that important, fix gTweakUI and use that to restore
your preferred setting.
gnome-appearance-capplet should not be the kitchen sink.
ciao,
Emmanuele.
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RE: Appearance properties
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I do not see why we are debating about one simple thing. We basically need one quite simple option where we would like to say 'we want icons' or 'we don't want them'. Latter could be default if you like. If this community is not able to implement this simple thing that means that something is going very bad here.
Beside the fact that GNOME started to be less and less effective than KDE and as time pass we have to import many of technologies from them.
Let's we turn the page!
Uros ----------------------------------------------- "Every kind of peaceful cooperation among men is primarily based on mutual trust and only secondarily on institutions such as courts of justice and police." - Albert Einstein (1879 - 1955) > Subject: Re: RE: Appearance properties > From: ebassi@...> To: desktop-devel-list@...> Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 11:35:53 +0000 > > On Tue, 2009-11-10 at 11:50 +0100, Xavier Claessens wrote: > > > > A tweak application is would be one that changes little-used and low > > > importance preferences. > > > > > > The Appearance capplet includes three sections. "Background" is probably > > > most used, "Font" is of high importance (for accessibility) and "Theme" > > > is probably a medium priority preference. > > > > I think, but could be wrong, that tab was indeed useless... until the > > sane default changed and became unusable/ugly... > > *for you*. > > personally, I like the current default very much. > > > now it is really useful > > to get back to previous configuration, so the interface tab is now > > really important. > > if it really is that important, fix gTweakUI and use that to restore > your preferred setting. > > gnome-appearance-capplet should not be the kitchen sink. > > ciao, > Emmanuele. > > _______________________________________________ > desktop-devel-list mailing list > desktop-devel-list@...> http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
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RE: Appearance properties
On Tue, 2009-11-10 at 13:37 +0100, Uros Nedic wrote:
> I do not see why we are debating about one simple thing. We basically
> need one quite simple option where we would like to say 'we want
> icons'
> or 'we don't want them'. Latter could be default if you like. If this
> community is not able to implement this simple thing that means that
> something is going very bad here.
What's wrong is a community that's devoid of the powers and will to make
changes that in the long run will be beneficial.
> Beside the fact that GNOME started to be less and less effective
> than KDE and as time pass we have to import many of technologies
> from them.
That's a plain wrong statement, and one that doesn't have anything to do
with the discussion at hand.
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RE: Appearance properties
On Tue, 2009-11-10 at 13:37 +0100, Uros Nedic wrote:
> I do not see why we are debating about one simple thing. We basically
> need one quite simple option where we would like to say 'we want
> icons'
> or 'we don't want them'. Latter could be default if you like. If this
> community is not able to implement this simple thing that means that
> something is going very bad here.
you're missing the point: the option already exists in GConf. all that
is needed is a UI tweak utility that can be optionally installed.
you are part of "this community" too: write a patch for gTweakUI if you
want to. the project is available here:
http://gtweakui.sourceforge.net/you can even start something new or fork the project if you feel
adventurous.
what you shouldn't do is come here and tell people what to do.
> Beside the fact that GNOME started to be less and less effective
> than KDE and as time pass we have to import many of technologies
> from them.
this has nothing to do with the topic on hand.
ciao,
Emmanuele.
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Re: Appearance properties
> you're missing the point: the option already exists in GConf. all that
> is needed is a UI tweak utility that can be optionally installed.
Not sure I understand the discussion here. GNOME -had- UI to tweak
this option, and suddenly decided not to support configuring it in the
main desktop.
I actually enjoy most of the new changes (I like the simpler menus),
but I miss being able to change the toolbar style. The 2.28
text-beside is nice, but I prefer the old text-under. Is that really
such a forbidden use case?
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Re: Appearance properties
On Tue, 2009-11-10 at 08:01 -0500, Jud Craft wrote:
> I actually enjoy most of the new changes (I like the simpler menus),
> but I miss being able to change the toolbar style. The 2.28
> text-beside is nice, but I prefer the old text-under. Is that really
> such a forbidden use case?
It's not forbidden and in fact, in 2.28, you can still change this
option through the appearance capplet.
In 2.30, if you still want to change this option, you can open
gconf-editor, navigate to the /desktop/gnome/interface/toolbar_style key
and set it to the value you want ("both").
Regards,
Thomas
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Re: Appearance properties
> It's not forbidden and in fact, in 2.28, you can still change this
> option through the appearance capplet.
I think you may be mistaken. I'm running GNOME 2.28 on Fedora 12 and
the Appearance Properties no longer allow you to do this, since the
Interface options mentioned above have been removed.
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Re: Appearance properties
On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 8:24 AM, Jud Craft < craftjml@...> wrote:
>> It's not forbidden and in fact, in 2.28, you can still change this
>> option through the appearance capplet.
>
> I think you may be mistaken. I'm running GNOME 2.28 on Fedora 12 and
> the Appearance Properties no longer allow you to do this, since the
> Interface options mentioned above have been removed.
That is because we have removed it in Fedora before it was removed upstream.
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