Audio Hardware Recommendations

[Christopher Stamper]

Hello all,

I'm thinking about finally upgrading from my cheap soundblaster+mic to something of a little higher quality. I'm thinking along the lines of an external firewire/usb box and some kind of low-cost mic.

I'd use it primarely for vocals, but I'd like the recording interface to support 2-channel, for possible some piano recordings/etc. I also don't want to spend very much, and would plan to get it used, on ebay.

What do you guys use or recommend?

Thanks!

--
Christopher Stamper

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[Frank Barknecht]

Hallo,
Christopher Stamper hat gesagt: // Christopher Stamper wrote:

> I'm thinking about finally upgrading from my cheap soundblaster+mic to
> something of a little higher quality. I'm thinking along the lines of an
> external firewire/usb box and some kind of low-cost mic.
>
> I'd use it primarely for vocals, but I'd like the recording interface to
> support 2-channel, for possible some piano recordings/etc. I also don't want
> to spend very much, and would plan to get it used, on ebay.

For comparable quality, PCI cards generally are much cheaper than
USB or let alone Firewire cards (the latter are quite expensive). I'd go
with some Terratec or M-Audio card based on an ICE chipset. The
M-Audio Audiophile PCI is quite popular, I use one myself for a long
time now. It's only stereo, howver. The Delta cards provide more
channels. Check the ALSA soundcard matrix for other cards with the
ice1712 driver.

Ciao
--
Frank
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[Christopher Stamper]

On Sat, Dec 6, 2008 at 10:12 AM, Frank Barknecht <fbar@...> wrote:

Hallo,

Christopher Stamper hat gesagt: // Christopher Stamper wrote:

> I'm thinking about finally upgrading from my cheap soundblaster+mic to
> something of a little higher quality. I'm thinking along the lines of an
> external firewire/usb box and some kind of low-cost mic.
>
> I'd use it primarely for vocals, but I'd like the recording interface to
> support 2-channel, for possible some piano recordings/etc. I also don't want
> to spend very much, and would plan to get it used, on ebay.

For comparable quality, PCI cards generally are much cheaper than
USB or let alone Firewire cards (the latter are quite expensive). I'd go
with some Terratec or M-Audio card based on an ICE chipset. The
M-Audio Audiophile PCI is quite popular, I use one myself for a long
time now. It's only stereo, howver. The Delta cards provide more
channels. Check the ALSA soundcard matrix for other cards with the
ice1712 driver.

Thanks for the info, I'll check them out.

I kinda wanted to be able to use it in my laptop as well as my desktop. That kinda limits me to firewire/usb.

If I can get one of those pci cards cheaply enough, I may go for it. Thanks!

--
Christopher Stamper

Email: christopherstamper@...
Web: http://tinyurl.com/2ooncg
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Skype: cdstamper

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[Christopher Stamper]

On Sat, Dec 6, 2008 at 10:14 AM, Christopher Stamper <christopherstamper@...> wrote:

On Sat, Dec 6, 2008 at 10:12 AM, Frank Barknecht <fbar@...> wrote:

Hallo,

Christopher Stamper hat gesagt: // Christopher Stamper wrote:

> I'm thinking about finally upgrading from my cheap soundblaster+mic to
> something of a little higher quality. I'm thinking along the lines of an
> external firewire/usb box and some kind of low-cost mic.
>
> I'd use it primarely for vocals, but I'd like the recording interface to
> support 2-channel, for possible some piano recordings/etc. I also don't want
> to spend very much, and would plan to get it used, on ebay.

For comparable quality, PCI cards generally are much cheaper than
USB or let alone Firewire cards (the latter are quite expensive). I'd go
with some Terratec or M-Audio card based on an ICE chipset. The
M-Audio Audiophile PCI is quite popular, I use one myself for a long
time now. It's only stereo, howver. The Delta cards provide more
channels. Check the ALSA soundcard matrix for other cards with the
ice1712 driver.

Are there any problems I'd be encountering if I got a M-Audio Fast Track US44010 (or simillar)?

--
Christopher Stamper

Email: christopherstamper@...
Web: http://tinyurl.com/2ooncg
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Skype: cdstamper

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[Mark Knecht]

On Sat, Dec 6, 2008 at 7:31 AM, Christopher Stamper
<christopherstamper@...> wrote:
<SNIP>
>
>
> Are there any problems I'd be encountering if I got a M-Audio Fast Track
> US44010 (or simillar)?
>
<SNIP>

Someone recently was talking about one of these M-Audio USB devices -
either on this list or maybe Alsa-User. He wasn't seeing all the
channels. I guess it has 4 and he was only seeing 2 IIRC. Check the
archives on that one.

- Mark
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[Ivica Ico Bukvic-3]

> I kinda wanted to be able to use it in my laptop as well as my desktop.
> That kinda limits me to firewire/usb.

Depending upon what you consider to be "cheap," Edirol FA-101 is (firewire)
is ironically cheaper (approx. ~$300) than UA-101 (usb, ~$450), although
from what I read the UA has a much more elaborate routing capabilities. That
being said, we have over dozen FA-101s in DISIS and they work perfectly with
Linux (ffado), offer 10 i/o, 2 very good preamps, and MIDI. If you have a
MBP you can run them without external power (they run off of the FW cable).

Hope this helps!

Best wishes,

Ivica Ico Bukvic, D.M.A.
Composition, Music Technology
Director, DISIS Interactive Sound & Intermedia Studio
Assistant Co-Director, CCTAD
CHCI, CS, and Art (by courtesy)
Virginia Tech
Dept. of Music - 0240
Blacksburg, VA 24061
[phone]
ico@...
http://www.music.vt.edu/faculty/bukvic/


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[Ivica Ico Bukvic-3]

> Depending upon what you consider to be "cheap," Edirol FA-101 is
> (firewire)
> is ironically cheaper (approx. ~$300) than UA-101 (usb, ~$450), although
> from what I read the UA has a much more elaborate routing capabilities.
> That
> being said, we have over dozen FA-101s in DISIS and they work perfectly
> with
> Linux (ffado), offer 10 i/o, 2 very good preamps, and MIDI. If you have a
> MBP you can run them without external power (they run off of the FW
> cable).

Forgot to mention, if I really had to nitpick regarding these, it would be
that the line outs are +4dB.

Ico


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[Christopher Stamper]

On Sat, Dec 6, 2008 at 1:21 PM, Ivica Ico Bukvic <ico@...> wrote:

> Depending upon what you consider to be "cheap," Edirol FA-101 is
> (firewire)
> is ironically cheaper (approx. ~$300) than UA-101 (usb, ~$450), although
> from what I read the UA has a much more elaborate routing capabilities.
> That
> being said, we have over dozen FA-101s in DISIS and they work perfectly
> with
> Linux (ffado), offer 10 i/o, 2 very good preamps, and MIDI. If you have a
> MBP you can run them without external power (they run off of the FW
> cable).

Forgot to mention, if I really had to nitpick regarding these, it would be
that the line outs are +4dB.

Thanks, but that's a bit too expensive. I was thinking around $50-$100...

I think I'll get the M-Audio usb box. Pretty good prices on eBay...

Thanks!

--
Christopher Stamper

Email: christopherstamper@...
Web: http://tinyurl.com/2ooncg
gTalk: http://tinyurl.com/6e359r
Skype: cdstamper

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[John Tomlinson]

On Sat, 2008-12-06 at 16:17 -0500, Christopher Stamper wrote:
>
>
> I think I'll get the M-Audio usb box. Pretty good prices on eBay...
>
> Thanks!


I use an M-Audio Audiophile USB and it works fine providing you have
alsa version 1.0.16 or higher. I get the latency down to 2.7ms (64
Frames per period).

John T.

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[Frank Barknecht]

Hallo,
John Tomlinson hat gesagt: // John Tomlinson wrote:

> On Sat, 2008-12-06 at 16:17 -0500, Christopher Stamper wrote:
> >
> >
> > I think I'll get the M-Audio usb box. Pretty good prices on eBay...
> >
> > Thanks!
>
>
> I use an M-Audio Audiophile USB and it works fine providing you have
> alsa version 1.0.16 or higher. I get the latency down to 2.7ms (64
> Frames per period).

Btw.: all USB soundcards have the same latency.

I use a Terratec Phase 26, which is very inexpensive in Europe (i.e. 99
Eur new) as you can get it unbundled from the useless Windows software
at various dealers.

Ciao
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[Christopher Stamper]

On Sun, Dec 7, 2008 at 7:54 AM, Frank Barknecht <fbar@...> wrote:

Hallo,

John Tomlinson hat gesagt: // John Tomlinson wrote:

> On Sat, 2008-12-06 at 16:17 -0500, Christopher Stamper wrote:
> >
> >
> > I think I'll get the M-Audio usb box. Pretty good prices on eBay...
> >
> > Thanks!
>
>
> I use an M-Audio Audiophile USB and it works fine providing you have
> alsa version 1.0.16 or higher. I get the latency down to 2.7ms (64
> Frames per period).

Btw.: all USB soundcards have the same latency.

I guess that's because USB has a certain required latency? Interesting, either way...
 

I use a Terratec Phase 26, which is very inexpensive in Europe (i.e. 99
Eur new) as you can get it unbundled from the useless Windows software
at various dealers.

Sounds good too. I'll check it out.

Thanks for the suggestions!

--
Christopher Stamper

Email: christopherstamper@...
Web: http://tinyurl.com/2ooncg
gTalk: http://tinyurl.com/6e359r
Skype: cdstamper

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[Frank Barknecht]

Hallo,
Christopher Stamper hat gesagt: // Christopher Stamper wrote:

> On Sun, Dec 7, 2008 at 7:54 AM, Frank Barknecht <fbar@...> wrote:
> >
> > Btw.: all USB soundcards have the same latency.
>
> I guess that's because USB has a certain required latency? Interesting,
> either way...

The minimal latency you can get with USB is mainly limited by the USB
bus, not by what is at the other end of the cable.

I was able to play with 32 sample period in Jack and even one power
lower using a cheap Burr/Brown-chipset USB card (Terratec Aureon, though
any card will do) - but that's not very stable and only works for a
short time unless you have a really well tuned system (which I haven't).

Ciao
--
Frank
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[Arnold Krille-3]

On Tuesday 09 December 2008 18:04:20 Christopher Stamper wrote:
> On Sun, Dec 7, 2008 at 7:54 AM, Frank Barknecht <fbar@...> wrote:
> > Btw.: all USB soundcards have the same latency.
> I guess that's because USB has a certain required latency? Interesting,
> either way...

Actually with _every_ digital audio you get latency. "Zero Latency" is only
possible in analog audio processing and even there it might fail do to phase-
shifts of capacities and coils.
In the digital world there is always some delay in the analog-digital-
converter and in the digital-analog-converter. There is always some buffering
between the converters and the chip of the sound-device. And then there is the
transport to the pc's ram and cpu (with buffering). So even with PCI-cards you
always have latency. But with usb (and firewire) you have a transport
additional to the pci-bus, which adds extra latency.
And it doesn't matter which usb-device you use, if it uses usb as transport,
they all have the same latency in your machine.

Have fun,

Arnold


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[Tobiah-3]

I have one of these.  Nice and quiet mic preamps.

http://tinyurl.com/64bl7u

You might look at Marshall for a cheap but useable mic.

> I'm thinking about finally upgrading from my cheap soundblaster+mic to
> something of a little higher quality. I'm thinking along the lines of an
> external firewire/usb box and some kind of low-cost mic.
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[Roger E]

Tobiah wrote:

> I have one of these.  Nice and quiet mic preamps.
>
> http://tinyurl.com/64bl7u
>
> You might look at Marshall for a cheap but useable mic.
>
>  
>> I'm thinking about finally upgrading from my cheap soundblaster+mic to
>> something of a little higher quality. I'm thinking along the lines of an
>> external firewire/usb box and some kind of low-cost mic.
>>    

I just bought an Audio-Technica AT2020 and AT2010 in a packaged pair for
under $AU200. Excellent quality for the price. There is even a USB model
of the 2020 available!
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[webmaster-312]

I have two Ubuntu computers, one running 8.04 and the other running 9.04.
Since Ubuntu is said to offer a RT kernel and a version that has been
customized for audio work, I was surprised to find that it is not so easy to
configure audio in Ubuntu. Debian recognized my SoundBlaster audigy card
immediately and used it. For Ubuntu the small app that is supposed to select
the sound card doesn't seem to do anything.

So I started asking questions of Google and found that there are a number of
people who are having difficulty configuring Soundblaster on Ubuntu. It
looks to be a chronic problem.

Aside from that SlashDot.org had a link to this last week, although it seems
to be vintage 2007.


http://blogs.adobe.com/penguin.swf/2007/05/welcome_to_the_jungle.html

There is a map of Linux Audio Applications that looks to be useful
documentation. Any comments on the rather critical note ?


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[justin smith]

On Mon, Jun 22, 2009 at 8:09 PM, <webmaster@...> wrote:

> I have two Ubuntu computers, one running 8.04 and the other running 9.04.
> Since Ubuntu is said to offer a RT kernel and a version that has been
> customized for audio work, I was surprised to find that it is not so easy to
> configure audio in Ubuntu. Debian recognized my SoundBlaster audigy card
> immediately and used it. For Ubuntu the small app that is supposed to select
> the sound card doesn't seem to do anything.
>
> So I started asking questions of Google and found that there are a number of
> people who are having difficulty configuring Soundblaster on Ubuntu. It
> looks to be a chronic problem.
>
> Aside from that SlashDot.org had a link to this last week, although it seems
> to be vintage 2007.
>
>
> http://blogs.adobe.com/penguin.swf/2007/05/welcome_to_the_jungle.html
>
> There is a map of Linux Audio Applications that looks to be useful
> documentation. Any comments on the rather critical note ?
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Linux-audio-user mailing list
> Linux-audio-user@...
> http://lists.linuxaudio.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-audio-user
>

Welcome to the list. That map of applications is actually a map of
drivers, libraries, and daemons, and the ones that get talked about on
this list are alsa (driver), ffado (driver), jack (daemon), and
pulseaudio (daemon) mostly. Pulseaudio is controversial. The list
archives will provide you with many hundreds of pages of flamewars and
clarifications about these various interfaces for linux audio if you
find the topic interesting.
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[munkeyfreenix batcat]

Hi, welcome.

A few comments:

1. The RT kernel is the linux real time kernel, and you can get it with any distro. How your particular distro decides to provide it for you is one of the things that make distros different. Since Ubuntu is debian-based, it uses apt-get (or synaptics gui front end) as the package management system. I'm not sure if you can apt-get the real-time kernel from there. On gentoo, one runs 'emerge gentoo-sources', which grabs the kernel source tree and places it in /usr/src/linux. For gentoo, then you need to configure and compile your own kernel. Ubuntu was designed with the idea that users would never really compile their own kernel. I left ubuntu because I couldn't get alsa or jack to work properly, and felt as detached from the system as I did on windoze.

2. Is Alsa started? I imagine Ubuntu should start alsa on startup, but look into whether or not your alsa drivers have been configured properly. It will probably be different for you, but something like '/etc/init.d/alsasound status' will tell you if its started or stopped. if its stopped, rerun that command and replace status with start, or --verbose start if it fails to start.

3. You probably don't know if the alsa drivers are compiled into the kernel or as loadable modules, but should find out. I found that in-kernel alsa drivers just don't work, so I compile them all as modules and have them load at boot. 'lsmod |grep -i snd' should show if alsa drivers are  loaded, and which ones. if you don't get anything that way, try 'modprobe -l | grep -i snd'. This will list all available LKM (loadable kernel modules). Perhaps the soundblaster driver has not been loaded. If you find the right module, but its not showing in lsmod, do 'modprobe <module-name>'. That will load the driver.

4. Check the Alsa wiki and site. Check them again. Also look at kernel.org:
http://www.kernel.org/doc/Documentation/sound/alsa/ALSA-Configuration.txt

5. If you can't get things going under Ubuntu within a week, ditch ubuntu (personal opinion). Linux audio is NOT easy, nor for those not willing to work to make it work. Try other distros like openSUSE, arch linux, gentoo, centOS. Ubuntu is a great intro, but you may want something more flexible to handle problems like these. Also keep in mind that a tough install also usually has more rewards, since you must learn your machine up front.

best,
justin

On Mon, Jun 22, 2009 at 8:09 PM, <webmaster@...> wrote:

I have two Ubuntu computers, one running 8.04 and the other running 9.04.
Since Ubuntu is said to offer a RT kernel and a version that has been
customized for audio work, I was surprised to find that it is not so easy to
configure audio in Ubuntu. Debian recognized my SoundBlaster audigy card
immediately and used it. For Ubuntu the small app that is supposed to select
the sound card doesn't seem to do anything.

So I started asking questions of Google and found that there are a number of
people who are having difficulty configuring Soundblaster on Ubuntu. It
looks to be a chronic problem.

Aside from that SlashDot.org had a link to this last week, although it seems
to be vintage 2007.


http://blogs.adobe.com/penguin.swf/2007/05/welcome_to_the_jungle.html

There is a map of Linux Audio Applications that looks to be useful
documentation. Any comments on the rather critical note ?


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[Robert Vogel-4]

I thought Ubuntu had a solution for my audio problems when it was said to be
specially packaged for multi-media and the only distribution with an
off-the-shelf RT kernel. Every time I run Rosegarden there is a warning
message that the kernel timing is not good enough. So I determined to
install the UBuntu Studio with the RT kernel.

What happened ? It didn't recognize my Soundblaster Audigy. It is not clear
how to configure.

Debian had it much better.

Couldn't there be more agreement on audio configuration for Linux ? Is
anyone working on a standard ? Shouldn't they be ?

How about an agreed upon place to specify which sound card to use ...and
which driver.

Bob

Here's a note that appeared on a Debian list from Brian Mullan that
describes some of the issues:


- - - - - - - - - - - -

(Blockquote starts here:)

A recent Slashdot thread had resonance with my own work in promoting use of
Linux in a very large educational project and problems I'm facing.

http://linux.slashdot.org/story/09/06/19/1937210/State-of-Sound-Development-On-Linux-Not-So-Sorry-After-All

Quite a few contributors to that thread are voicing some fundamental
concerns that problems with seemingly mundane features may hold back Linux
from wider acceptance.

I know folks comment "well you can figure out a work around it
eventually"...
but the problem is winning over the existing Window's users that might be
thinking about moving to Linux and
unfortunately either just don't have the knowledge or perhaps don't want to
spend the time to figure out "work-arounds" to basic issues like:

  a.. why doesn't my Browser play flash video
  b.. or why doesn't my Web sound work (or work right)

Linux has come a very long way in creating a great computing environment and
Desktop experience.

One obvious example is how well wireless now seems to work now.
and that is fortunate since the networking market for personal use is almost
exclusively Wireless in the Home now.

I know the problems with things like Flash maybe isn't something Linux
community can fix directly but they can work more closely
with say Adobe in this instance to get the problem fixed.


----- Original Message -----
From: "Justin Smith" <noisesmith@...>
To: <linux-audio-user@...>
Sent: Wednesday, July 01, 2009 11:41 AM
Subject: Re: [LAU] (no subject)

> On Mon, Jun 22, 2009 at 8:09 PM, <webmaster@...> wrote:
>> I have two Ubuntu computers, one running 8.04 and the other running 9.04.
>> Since Ubuntu is said to offer a RT kernel and a version that has been
>> customized for audio work, I was surprised to find that it is not so easy
>> to
>> configure audio in Ubuntu. Debian recognized my SoundBlaster audigy card
>> immediately and used it. For Ubuntu the small app that is supposed to
>> select
>> the sound card doesn't seem to do anything.
>>
>> So I started asking questions of Google and found that there are a number
>> of
>> people who are having difficulty configuring Soundblaster on Ubuntu. It
>> looks to be a chronic problem.
>>
>> Aside from that SlashDot.org had a link to this last week, although it
>> seems
>> to be vintage 2007.
>>
>>
>> http://blogs.adobe.com/penguin.swf/2007/05/welcome_to_the_jungle.html
>>
>> There is a map of Linux Audio Applications that looks to be useful
>> documentation. Any comments on the rather critical note ?
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Linux-audio-user mailing list
>> Linux-audio-user@...
>> http://lists.linuxaudio.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-audio-user
>>
>
> Welcome to the list. That map of applications is actually a map of
> drivers, libraries, and daemons, and the ones that get talked about on
> this list are alsa (driver), ffado (driver), jack (daemon), and
> pulseaudio (daemon) mostly. Pulseaudio is controversial. The list
> archives will provide you with many hundreds of pages of flamewars and
> clarifications about these various interfaces for linux audio if you
> find the topic interesting.
> _______________________________________________
> Linux-audio-user mailing list
> Linux-audio-user@...
> http://lists.linuxaudio.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-audio-user 

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[Ronald Stewart]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=250465726618

On Wed, Jul 15, 2009 at 7:31 PM, <vogel@...> wrote:

I thought Ubuntu had a solution for my audio problems when it was said to be
specially packaged for multi-media and the only distribution with an
off-the-shelf RT kernel. Every time I run Rosegarden there is a warning
message that the kernel timing is not good enough. So I determined to
install the UBuntu Studio with the RT kernel.

What happened ? It didn't recognize my Soundblaster Audigy. It is not clear
how to configure.

Debian had it much better.

Couldn't there be more agreement on audio configuration for Linux ? Is
anyone working on a standard ? Shouldn't they be ?

How about an agreed upon place to specify which sound card to use ...and
which driver.

Bob

Here's a note that appeared on a Debian list from Brian Mullan that
describes some of the issues:


- - - - - - - - - - - -

(Blockquote starts here:)

A recent Slashdot thread had resonance with my own work in promoting use of
Linux in a very large educational project and problems I'm facing.

http://linux.slashdot.org/story/09/06/19/1937210/State-of-Sound-Development-On-Linux-Not-So-Sorry-After-All

Quite a few contributors to that thread are voicing some fundamental
concerns that problems with seemingly mundane features may hold back Linux
from wider acceptance.

I know folks comment "well you can figure out a work around it
eventually"...
but the problem is winning over the existing Window's users that might be
thinking about moving to Linux and
unfortunately either just don't have the knowledge or perhaps don't want to
spend the time to figure out "work-arounds" to basic issues like:

 a.. why doesn't my Browser play flash video
 b.. or why doesn't my Web sound work (or work right)

Linux has come a very long way in creating a great computing environment and
Desktop experience.

One obvious example is how well wireless now seems to work now.
and that is fortunate since the networking market for personal use is almost
exclusively Wireless in the Home now.

I know the problems with things like Flash maybe isn't something Linux
community can fix directly but they can work more closely
with say Adobe in this instance to get the problem fixed.


----- Original Message -----
From: "Justin Smith" <noisesmith@...>
To: <linux-audio-user@...>
Sent: Wednesday, July 01, 2009 11:41 AM
Subject: Re: [LAU] (no subject)


> On Mon, Jun 22, 2009 at 8:09 PM, <webmaster@...> wrote:
>> I have two Ubuntu computers, one running 8.04 and the other running 9.04.
>> Since Ubuntu is said to offer a RT kernel and a version that has been
>> customized for audio work, I was surprised to find that it is not so easy
>> to
>> configure audio in Ubuntu. Debian recognized my SoundBlaster audigy card
>> immediately and used it. For Ubuntu the small app that is supposed to
>> select
>> the sound card doesn't seem to do anything.
>>
>> So I started asking questions of Google and found that there are a number
>> of
>> people who are having difficulty configuring Soundblaster on Ubuntu. It
>> looks to be a chronic problem.
>>
>> Aside from that SlashDot.org had a link to this last week, although it
>> seems
>> to be vintage 2007.
>>
>>
>> http://blogs.adobe.com/penguin.swf/2007/05/welcome_to_the_jungle.html
>>
>> There is a map of Linux Audio Applications that looks to be useful
>> documentation. Any comments on the rather critical note ?
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Linux-audio-user mailing list
>> Linux-audio-user@...
>> http://lists.linuxaudio.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-audio-user
>>
>
> Welcome to the list. That map of applications is actually a map of
> drivers, libraries, and daemons, and the ones that get talked about on
> this list are alsa (driver), ffado (driver), jack (daemon), and
> pulseaudio (daemon) mostly. Pulseaudio is controversial. The list
> archives will provide you with many hundreds of pages of flamewars and
> clarifications about these various interfaces for linux audio if you
> find the topic interesting.
> _______________________________________________
> Linux-audio-user mailing list
> Linux-audio-user@...
> http://lists.linuxaudio.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-audio-user

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