Bass instruments
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Bass instruments
by David K. Gasaway
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Could I we please consider some clarification for the instrument named
"Bass"? In the instrument hierarchy, it appears as a child of "Viola da Gamba", and a parent of both "Double bass (Contrabass, Acoustic upright bass)" and "Acoustic upright bass". This suggests that it is at least an instrument of the viol family. What I'm not clear on is whether it's meant to represent a bass viol (a viol instrument smaller than a double bass, which I've seen on at least one release I own), or to represent a class of low-pitched viol instruments. If it's for the bass viol specifically, shouldn't "Double bass" be a child to "Viola da Gamba"? I've seen "Bass" used on classical and jazz releases where double bass is the more appropriate instrument. Worse, I've seen it used on jazz and popular releases where "Bass guitar" should have been used. Maybe I'm reading the instrument hierarchy too literally... I realize that it might be hard to change the meaning of "Bass" now without wreaking havoc on existing ARs, but could I at least get a clarification for my own use? Or perhaps "Bass" could be moved to a more general spot in the heirarchy, discouraged via additional descriptive text, and a new "Bass viol" inserted in the existing spot. If nothing else, some documentation for InstrumentRelationAttribute could be useful. I'd also like to know what distinction is intended by having both "Double bass (Contrabass, Acoustic upright bass)" and "Acoustic upright bass". I've consistently used the former in all cases, AFAIK. Thanks. _______________________________________________ Musicbrainz-style mailing list Musicbrainz-style@... http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-style |
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Re: Bass instruments
by Bugzilla from lalinsky@gmail.com
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On Tue, Sep 15, 2009 at 9:22 AM, David Gasaway <dave@...> wrote:
> I'd also like to know what distinction is intended by having both > "Double bass (Contrabass, Acoustic upright bass)" and "Acoustic upright > bass". I've consistently used the former in all cases, AFAIK. There is http://bugs.musicbrainz.org/ticket/3732 and it should be fixed now. Thanks for the ping. :) -- Lukas Lalinsky lalinsky@... _______________________________________________ Musicbrainz-style mailing list Musicbrainz-style@... http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-style |
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Re: Bass instruments
by leivhe
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David Gasaway wrote:
> Could I we please consider some clarification for the instrument named > "Bass"? In the instrument hierarchy, it appears as a child of "Viola > da Gamba", and a parent of both "Double bass (Contrabass, Acoustic > upright bass)" and "Acoustic upright bass". This suggests that it is > at least an instrument of the viol family. What I'm not clear on is > whether it's meant to represent a bass viol (a viol instrument smaller > than a double bass, which I've seen on at least one release I own), or > to represent a class of low-pitched viol instruments. If it's for the > bass viol specifically, shouldn't "Double bass" be a child to "Viola da > Gamba"? I've come across this too, see somewhere down in this thread: http://www.nabble.com/Re-arranging-the-bass-subtree--td17205642s2885.html The current placement of Double Bass has some counter-intuitive consequences, if one assumes that "violins" and "viols" are meant to be usable instruments and not abstract meta-instruments only used for grouping. 1) ARs with "viols performed by" are not likely to have double bass 2) ARs with "violins performed by" may have double bass. I think it would be better to have double bass under violins, and I agree that bass viol could be added in stead of bass. As I don't have the full overview of use and intended use of the instrument hierarchy, I am uncertain of other consequences and whether such a change requires much work. Leiv _______________________________________________ Musicbrainz-style mailing list Musicbrainz-style@... http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-style |
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Re: Bass instruments
by David K. Gasaway
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Leiv Hellebo wrote:
> The current placement of Double Bass has some counter-intuitive > consequences, if one assumes that "violins" and "viols" are meant to be > usable instruments and not abstract meta-instruments only used for grouping. I see what you mean. A move to violins would be prudent, IMO. Of course, "Electric upright bass" should move with it. Plus, "Viola da Gamba" could be renamed to "Viola da Gambas". > I think it would be better to have double bass under violins, and I > agree that bass viol could be added in stead of bass. Ok, so a new instrument named "Bass viol" under "Viola da Gamba". "Bass" could be moved to "String instruments", but I wouldn't know what to name it. _______________________________________________ Musicbrainz-style mailing list Musicbrainz-style@... http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-style |
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Re: Bass instruments
by Brant Gibbard
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I would suggest not re-naming "Bass" at all, as it seems to sometimes be
used in credits as a catch-all term for a number of quite different unidentified instruments that play the bass line. The problem I found when I was entering some of my few popular music CDs was that the credits frequently just say "Bass" and nothing more. When I asked on the forums what the likely meaning of "Bass" would be on a popular CD someone replied that it could mean either a bass guitar or a double bass (electric or acoustic), or possibly a combination of any of these on the same CD. He indicated that at concerts it is not uncommon to see the same player switching back and forth between those instruments from one song to the next. I would definitely support adding "Bass Viol" as a separate specific instrument in addition to the non-specific "Bass", but if David is suggesting, as he seems to be, removing "Bass" as a credited item then I would be strongly against it. I would still want to have the non-specific category present as otherwise I could not add the credits at all. I simply don't KNOW if they are playing bass guitar or double bass, or some other instruments, or as I suspect playing several different instruments on different songs. All we are told is that they are credited as "Bass" and I do not want to make false assumptions as to which instruments are being played. Moving "Bass" to a level right under "String Instruments" would make a lot of sense though. Brant Gibbard Toronto, ON http://bgibbard.ca > -----Original Message----- > From: musicbrainz-style-bounces@... > [mailto:musicbrainz-style-bounces@...] On > Behalf Of David Gasaway > Sent: September-16-09 12:44 AM > To: MusicBrainz style discussion > Subject: Re: [mb-style] Bass instruments > > Leiv Hellebo wrote: > > The current placement of Double Bass has some counter-intuitive > > consequences, if one assumes that "violins" and "viols" are > meant to > > be usable instruments and not abstract meta-instruments > only used for grouping. > > I see what you mean. A move to violins would be prudent, > IMO. Of course, "Electric upright bass" should move with it. > Plus, "Viola da Gamba" could be renamed to "Viola da Gambas". > > > I think it would be better to have double bass under violins, and I > > agree that bass viol could be added in stead of bass. > > Ok, so a new instrument named "Bass viol" under "Viola da Gamba". > "Bass" could be moved to "String instruments", but I wouldn't > know what to name it. > > > > _______________________________________________ > Musicbrainz-style mailing list > Musicbrainz-style@... > http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-style _______________________________________________ Musicbrainz-style mailing list Musicbrainz-style@... http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-style |
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Re: Bass instruments
by leivhe
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Brant Gibbard wrote:
> I would suggest not re-naming "Bass" at all, as it seems to sometimes be > used in credits as a catch-all term for a number of quite different > unidentified instruments that play the bass line. > > The problem I found when I was entering some of my few popular music CDs was > that the credits frequently just say "Bass" and nothing more. When I asked > on the forums what the likely meaning of "Bass" would be on a popular CD > someone replied that it could mean either a bass guitar or a double bass > (electric or acoustic), or possibly a combination of any of these on the > same CD. He indicated that at concerts it is not uncommon to see the same > player switching back and forth between those instruments from one song to > the next. > > I would definitely support adding "Bass Viol" as a separate specific > instrument in addition to the non-specific "Bass", but if David is > suggesting, as he seems to be, removing "Bass" as a credited item then I > would be strongly against it. I would still want to have the non-specific > category present as otherwise I could not add the credits at all. I simply > don't KNOW if they are playing bass guitar or double bass, or some other > instruments, or as I suspect playing several different instruments on > different songs. All we are told is that they are credited as "Bass" and I > do not want to make false assumptions as to which instruments are being > played. > > Moving "Bass" to a level right under "String Instruments" would make a lot > of sense though. Hm. Everything you say here makes sense. Some entity "Bass" right under "String instruments" that is subsuming both bass guitar and upright bass is certainly useful. And I don't positively recall ever seeing a cover where someone/some group is credited for playing "Violins". Perhaps it would be better to add "string orchestra" and "wind orchestra" to the list of types of orchestra? That way one can specify that a symphony orchestra is playing as a string orchestra when it does Stravinsky's Apollo, and as a wind orchestra when it does Miaskovsky's 19th symphony? What do you say, David? Leiv _______________________________________________ Musicbrainz-style mailing list Musicbrainz-style@... http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-style |
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Re: Bass instruments
by David K. Gasaway
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Brant Gibbard wrote:
> I would suggest not re-naming "Bass" at all, as it seems to sometimes be > used in credits as a catch-all term for a number of quite different > unidentified instruments that play the bass line. Exactly, and I'm not suggesting we change that. Unfortunately, "Bass" doesn't describe that purpose very well, and we'd still have people choosing "Bass" even when they know which specific instrument it is, just because they don't know any better. That's what I wanted to fix by renaming it. "Bass (unknown bass instrument, select Double Bass or Bass Guitar instead if known)" probably just isn't going to mustard. > I would definitely support adding "Bass Viol" as a separate specific > instrument in addition to the non-specific "Bass", but if David is > suggesting, as he seems to be, removing "Bass" as a credited item then I > would be strongly against it. I don't think I suggested that, since I would be against it myself. :) -- -:-:- David K. Gasaway -:-:- Email: dave@... -:-:- Web : dave.gasaway.org _______________________________________________ Musicbrainz-style mailing list Musicbrainz-style@... http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-style |
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Re: Bass instruments
by David K. Gasaway
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Leiv Hellebo wrote:
> And I don't positively recall ever seeing a cover where someone/some > group is credited for playing "Violins". Perhaps it would be better to > add "string orchestra" and "wind orchestra" to the list of types of > orchestra? That way one can specify that a symphony orchestra is playing > as a string orchestra when it does Stravinsky's Apollo, and as a wind > orchestra when it does Miaskovsky's 19th symphony? > > What do you say, David? I like it. +1! -- -:-:- David K. Gasaway -:-:- Email: dave@... -:-:- Web : dave.gasaway.org _______________________________________________ Musicbrainz-style mailing list Musicbrainz-style@... http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-style |
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