Becta's Open Source Schools "Innovation Seminar"

[Tim Dobson-5]

Hi there,

I'm going to this tomorrow.

Does anyone have any questions they think I should ask anyone there?

http://opensourceschools.org.uk/innovationseminar

Ie. Becta's home access project is happening here in the northwest - I
*think* www.greeh.co.uk is involved in it, but don't quote me there.

Is the proposed "National Digital Resource Bank" - being built by a
north west based company going to be a sham or really useful? According
to a leaflet I managed to dig out it said it was going to be Creative
Commons licenced but fail to say which licence, which makes that
assertion almost useless.

Any thoughts, queries or questions would be welcome!

Cheers,

Tim


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[robert burrell donkin-2]

On Wed, Oct 14, 2009 at 9:29 PM, Tim Dobson <lists@...> wrote:
> Hi there,
>
> I'm going to this tomorrow.

cool

> Does anyone have any questions they think I should ask anyone there?
>
> http://opensourceschools.org.uk/innovationseminar
>
> Ie. Becta's home access project is happening here in the northwest - I
> *think* www.greeh.co.uk is involved in it, but don't quote me there.
>
> Is the proposed "National Digital Resource Bank" - being built by a north
> west based company going to be a sham or really useful? According to a
> leaflet I managed to dig out it said it was going to be Creative Commons
> licenced but fail to say which licence, which makes that assertion almost
> useless.

+1

license clarity is really crucial

it's probably worthwhile asking about license compatibility

"The National Digital Resource Bank is set to become the largest
project in UK Education. Using a licence free product developed in
Spain. ndrb will provide Local Authorities with the largest collection
of open content available that is compatible with all commonly used
Learning Platforms."

huh?

"licence free product" ...?

is this free software? public domain? freeware? royalty free?

(i could go on)

- robert


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[Tim Dobson-5]

Robert Burrell Donkin wrote:

> On Wed, Oct 14, 2009 at 9:29 PM, Tim Dobson <lists@...> wrote:
>> Does anyone have any questions they think I should ask anyone there?
>>
>> http://opensourceschools.org.uk/innovationseminar
>>
>> Ie. Becta's home access project is happening here in the northwest - I
>> *think* www.greeh.co.uk is involved in it, but don't quote me there.
>>
>> Is the proposed "National Digital Resource Bank" - being built by a north
>> west based company going to be a sham or really useful? According to a
>> leaflet I managed to dig out it said it was going to be Creative Commons
>> licenced but fail to say which licence, which makes that assertion almost
>> useless.
>
> +1
>
> license clarity is really crucial
>
> it's probably worthwhile asking about license compatibility
>
> "The National Digital Resource Bank is set to become the largest
> project in UK Education. Using a licence free product developed in
> Spain. ndrb will provide Local Authorities with the largest collection
> of open content available that is compatible with all commonly used
> Learning Platforms."
>
> huh?
>
> "licence free product" ...?
>
> is this free software? public domain? freeware? royalty free?

haha. My thoughts exactly!
I'll chase this up and see what what's going on! :)

Here's another
"is it a quango/is it a useful program" game:
http://www.teachernet.gov.uk/management/resourcesfinanceandbuilding/bsf/aboutbsf/

Currently attempting to grasp what precisely it has to do with free
software to justify two talks at this event:
http://opensourceschools.org.uk/innovationseminar but no doubt I'll find
out!

Any points I should be making to Dr Stephen Lucey at Becta?
I mean, things that are likely to actually make a difference... :)

Tim


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[Leslie I'Anson]

Looks interesting Tim.

Will you be reporting your experience of the event back to the group?
If so how? A talk perhaps?

Cheers,
Leslie

On 14/10/2009, Tim Dobson <lists@...> wrote:

> Hi there,
>
> I'm going to this tomorrow.
>
> Does anyone have any questions they think I should ask anyone there?
>
> http://opensourceschools.org.uk/innovationseminar
>
> Ie. Becta's home access project is happening here in the northwest - I
> *think* www.greeh.co.uk is involved in it, but don't quote me there.
>
> Is the proposed "National Digital Resource Bank" - being built by a
> north west based company going to be a sham or really useful? According
> to a leaflet I managed to dig out it said it was going to be Creative
> Commons licenced but fail to say which licence, which makes that
> assertion almost useless.
>
> Any thoughts, queries or questions would be welcome!
>
> Cheers,
>
> Tim
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Fsuk-manchester mailing list
> Fsuk-manchester@...
> http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/fsuk-manchester
>

--
http://www.fsf.org/ Support The Freedom!


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[Tim Dobson-5]

Tim Dobson wrote:
> Does anyone have any questions they think I should ask anyone there?
>
> http://opensourceschools.org.uk/innovationseminar

This has just started live streaming on the internet.
http://twitcam.com/3xoh

It hates freedom. It uses flash - that's why I'm here in real life.

Tag: #osschools on the microblogging nentworks will be awash with updates.

If you have any thoughts during the day, it'll be fastest to @message me
at http://identi.ca/tdobson.

Cheers,

Tim


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[Tim Dobson-5]

Leslie I'Anson wrote:
> Looks interesting Tim.

Insightful hearing teachers and Local authority perspectives... It's so
easy to preach to the already converted choir.

> Will you be reporting your experience of the event back to the group?
> If so how? A talk perhaps?

Hmm. I'm not incredibly keen on doing a talk all I'm doing is listening
and asking the questions that need to be asked! I don't claim to know
anything special here!

I'll probably end up blogging it whilst live-microblogging it at the
same time.

Cheers,

Tim


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[Matthew Edmondson-2]

Becta

Hmmm.

Why not sooner?  Plenty of offers and encouragement to use FS over the
last seven years.

Is it possible for a gov quango to be anything other than a M$ shop?

Is this just PR exercise?

What is so innovative?

What will they do to re-engage with those who have been disenfranchised
by Becta/gov attitude towards Free Software which has limited Free
Software deployment in schools rather than encouraged it?

Have they solved the problem of how to pay for it? i.e. how to channel
the money to those (local)suppliers who have the skills rather than
those big corporations who have 'certification/quality assurance'.

What will be done to limit the amount of tax payers money that they
waste on proprietary licenses each year?

What will be done to limit the effect of the Microsoft PR/hospitality
machine on the decisions made by Becta?

Can they please fund us to deliver a report/research/catalogue of the
ways in which FS has already been deployed in schools, despite the
obstacles as a resource for schools that are risk averse?

What has been demonstrated is that it is the administrators who need the
support.  Would they like someone like me to deploy migration training
(which might be similar to that which I successfully delivered to NGO
support staff a few years ago)

all the best

Matthew

(If you get me the work, I will give you a finders fee)


Tim Dobson wrote:

> Leslie I'Anson wrote:
>> Looks interesting Tim.
>
> Insightful hearing teachers and Local authority perspectives... It's
> so easy to preach to the already converted choir.
>
>> Will you be reporting your experience of the event back to the group?
>> If so how? A talk perhaps?
>
> Hmm. I'm not incredibly keen on doing a talk all I'm doing is
> listening and asking the questions that need to be asked! I don't
> claim to know anything special here!
>
> I'll probably end up blogging it whilst live-microblogging it at the
> same time.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Tim
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Fsuk-manchester mailing list
> Fsuk-manchester@...
> http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/fsuk-manchester

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[Tim Dobson-5]

Matthew Edmondson wrote:
> Becta
>
> Hmmm.
>
> Why not sooner?  Plenty of offers and encouragement to use FS over the
> last seven years.

Thanks for the ideas. I'll give those lines of discussion a go. :)


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[Tim Dobson-5]

I have some answers. These are the plain answers without my opinion. I'm
a bit busy right now listening. :)

Robert Burrell Donkin wrote:

> On Wed, Oct 14, 2009 at 9:29 PM, Tim Dobson <lists@...> wrote:
>> Is the proposed "National Digital Resource Bank" - being built by a north
>> west based company going to be a sham or really useful? According to a
>> leaflet I managed to dig out it said it was going to be Creative Commons
>> licenced but fail to say which licence, which makes that assertion almost
>> useless.
>
> +1
>
> license clarity is really crucial
>
> it's probably worthwhile asking about license compatibility

Content added by Local Education Authorities, Schools etc will be
licenced by default as CC-BY-NC-SA

Content added by other people may be differently but it will be clearly
listed on the download page.

They are very clear that they want "open content licences" - don't ask
me what that *actually* means but they say "sharing" is key.

All content is taken in and is Quality Assessed, tagged and mapped etc
by the administrators.

> "The National Digital Resource Bank is set to become the largest
> project in UK Education. Using a licence free product developed in
> Spain. ndrb will provide Local Authorities with the largest collection
> of open content available that is compatible with all commonly used
> Learning Platforms."
>
> huh?
>
> "licence free product" ...?
>
> is this free software? public domain? freeware? royalty free?

They mean, they are using: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agrega 
(http://www.proyectoagrega.es/default/Inicio ) - GPL as far as i can see.

They are new to free software but the person talking seems to know what
she is talking about.

Sirius - run by Mark Taylor of ex-OSC fame - is developing the system
with them.

I think they'd be open to discussion.

Tim


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[robert burrell donkin-2]

On Thu, Oct 15, 2009 at 12:29 PM, Tim Dobson <lists@...> wrote:

> I have some answers. These are the plain answers without my opinion. I'm a
> bit busy right now listening. :)
>
> Robert Burrell Donkin wrote:
>>
>> On Wed, Oct 14, 2009 at 9:29 PM, Tim Dobson <lists@...> wrote:
>>>
>>> Is the proposed "National Digital Resource Bank" - being built by a north
>>> west based company going to be a sham or really useful? According to a
>>> leaflet I managed to dig out it said it was going to be Creative Commons
>>> licenced but fail to say which licence, which makes that assertion almost
>>> useless.
>>
>> +1
>>
>> license clarity is really crucial
>>
>> it's probably worthwhile asking about license compatibility
>
> Content added by Local Education Authorities, Schools etc will be licenced
> by default as CC-BY-NC-SA

bah humbug

good intentions ruined by bad ignorance: not really open content

do they realise that CC-BY-NC-SA is such a poor license that CC
were/are considering pulling it?

the problem is that no-commercial is not defined: are you allowed to
change for the cost of providing a copy? Is the ISP allow to charge
for the bandwidth use to down? Does this mean that non-profits can
sell copies? Can a self employed individual copy it?

the FSF did a good job with the GPL in many ways, and their selling
clause was way ahead of the curve. that's why the rest of FOSS adopted
reciprocity to replace the old fashioned "no-commercial" terms.

you need to ask them if they are going to adopt additional licensing
terms to ensure that people can be sure what 'no commercial' means in
this context. AIUI the modern way is a no-enforcement covenant
(/ducks).

> Content added by other people may be differently but it will be clearly
> listed on the download page.
>
> They are very clear that they want "open content licences" - don't ask me
> what that *actually* means but they say "sharing" is key.

but adopting CC-BY-NC-SA prevents this in the long run

what agreement do they have with the contributors?

are they using copyright assignment (as the FSF does) or non-exclusive
sublicense (as Apache does)? and do they understand the consequences
of this choice?

> All content is taken in and is Quality Assessed, tagged and mapped etc by
> the administrators.
>
>> "The National Digital Resource Bank is set to become the largest
>> project in UK Education. Using a licence free product developed in
>> Spain. ndrb will provide Local Authorities with the largest collection
>> of open content available that is compatible with all commonly used
>> Learning Platforms."
>>
>> huh?
>>
>> "licence free product" ...?
>>
>> is this free software? public domain? freeware? royalty free?
>
> They mean, they are using: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agrega
> (http://www.proyectoagrega.es/default/Inicio ) - GPL as far as i can see.
>
> They are new to free software but the person talking seems to know what she
> is talking about.

cool

> Sirius - run by Mark Taylor of ex-OSC fame - is developing the system with
> them.
>
> I think they'd be open to discussion.

cool

it's really easy to ruin a great idea with poor licensing

sounds like they really need some good pro bono from a clueful lawyer.
http://www.rosenlaw.com/oslbook.htm is a good book and a place to
start.

good licensing is really tough but it's the basis of long term
success. the FSF spent years on each on their licenses and i know
AL2.0 took a similar amount of time.

- robert


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