Nabble - Boston Linux/UNIX General Discussion List

Re: Out of disk space - Ubuntu

2009-11-25T09:56:51Z

On 11/25/2009 12:16 PM, aldo albanese wrote:
> Hi,
> I ran out of disk space on ext3. I was able to allocate 2 more gig of
> space in VMvare to use for Ubuntu. When I go to the disk partition menu
> under Gparted, I see "ext3" and "unallocated space". Can I integrate the
> unallocated space into the original ext3 to extend the original 3 giB to
> toal 5 gib?

If the partitions are contiguous that you want to merge (or you want to merge
the last partition with the free space, and all the free space is at the end
of the disk), then yes you can do it, but you need to be careful. You need to
resize the existing partition that houses your ext3 filesystem, then grow the
filesystem (resize2fs; see
http://www.howtoforge.com/linux_resizing_ext3_partitions)

If it's not contiguous space, or you don't know if it is, then you're out of
luck; you needed to have used LVM. LVM would allow you to merge arbitrary
partitions into a single filesystem. There's not a way migrate an ext3
partition to an LVM+ext3 without copying everything to secondary storage and back.

Matt
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Re: Out of disk space - Ubuntu

2009-11-25T09:52:01Z

On Nov 25, 2009, at 12:16 PM, aldo albanese wrote:
>
> I ran out of disk space on ext3. I was able to allocate 2 more gig of space in VMvare to use for Ubuntu. When I go to the disk partition menu under Gparted, I see "ext3" and "unallocated space". Can I integrate the unallocated space into the original ext3 to extend the original 3 giB to toal 5 gib?

You can. The easiest way is to use a gparted live CD, boot that, and resize your ext3 partition.

--Rich P.

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Out of disk space - Ubuntu

2009-11-25T09:16:25Z

Hi,
I ran out of disk space on ext3. I was able to allocate 2 more gig of space in VMvare to use for Ubuntu. When I go to the disk partition menu under Gparted, I see "ext3" and "unallocated space". Can I integrate the unallocated space into the original ext3 to extend the original 3 giB to toal 5 gib?

Thanks,
Aldo

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Today's Topics:

1. Re: Netbooks (Richard Pieri)
2. Re: Minor printer issue Fedora 12 possibly firewall or
SeLinux (Jerry Feldman)
3. Re: power efficiency (Richard Pieri)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2009 22:00:12 -0500
From: Richard Pieri <richard.pieri@...>
Subject: Re: Netbooks
To: "L-blu (blu)" <discuss@...>
Message-ID: <A1D8FD44-DEB9-49F9-829D-6FB922D304AE@...>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

On Nov 24, 2009, at 9:17 PM, Tom Metro wrote:
>
> I suspect is has far more to do with the fact that netbooks are low margin and price competitive. That's not Apple's fort?.

Well, Apple is price competitive if you compare apples to apples, so to speak. Apple's prices are very competitive with comparable offerings from Dell, HP, Lenovo. But it's true that Apple doesn't do low end. Netbooks can't deliver the user experience that Apple wants to deliver -- and the fact that hackintoshed netbooks are favorably compared to Apple's state of the art 4 generations back is proof of that. :)

--Rich P.

------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 2009 07:41:57 -0500
From: Jerry Feldman <gaf@...>
Subject: Re: Minor printer issue Fedora 12 possibly firewall or
    SeLinux
Cc: discuss@...
Message-ID: <4B0D2615.8090500@...>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

On 11/24/2009 07:42 PM, jbk wrote:

> Jerry Feldman wrote:
>
>> On 11/24/2009 09:22 AM, Matthew Gillen wrote:
>>
>> I've already got that update installed. It's not too much of an issue
>> since I've never used Linux to check toner levels before. In the past I
>> was able to connect to the printer from Firefox, but not an issue
>> either. The main thing this morning was printing, and I found the Cat5
>> cable was not clicked in.
>>
>>
>>
> I enabled the cups ipp port 631/udp. I am able to access the printer by
> typing its ip in Firefox.
>

I had already done this and no response. One way to test is to first
disable the firewall altogether and see if it was the culprit. If so,
then work back from there.

--
Jerry Feldman <gaf@...>
Boston Linux and Unix
PGP key id: 537C5846
PGP Key fingerprint: 3D1B 8377 A3C0 A5F2 ECBB CA3B 4607 4319 537C 5846

------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 2009 11:39:56 -0500
From: Richard Pieri <richard.pieri@...>
Subject: Re: power efficiency
To: "L-blu (blu)" <discuss@...>
Message-ID: <23163C4C-4A5D-4F00-BDBB-623B2AB09A7E@...>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

On Nov 24, 2009, at 6:31 PM, Richard Pieri wrote:
> That said, Apple does run the fans at lower speeds than one might expect, so the notebooks run a bit hot. Not unduly so; temperatures do remain within tolerances for the hardware. So they do run hot under load. The lower base fan speeds make a noticeable difference in battery life and noise level -- the two reasons Apple does it that way.

Just as a data point, I'm currently running a video encode on my MacBook Pro (Early 2008/Penryn). iStat Pro says that the CPU temp is 78C. The maximum operating temperature for the CPU is 95C so that's well within tolerances.

Apple uses a lot more metal than other manufacturers in the casings (even in the polycarbonate-hulled MacBooks) and all that metal draws a lot of heat away from the main board. This is good because radiant cooling of the electronics is cheaper than running fans, but it does mean that MacBooks are warmer to the touch than the competition.

--Rich P.

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Re: power efficiency

2009-11-25T08:39:56Z

On Nov 24, 2009, at 6:31 PM, Richard Pieri wrote:
> That said, Apple does run the fans at lower speeds than one might expect, so the notebooks run a bit hot. Not unduly so; temperatures do remain within tolerances for the hardware. So they do run hot under load. The lower base fan speeds make a noticeable difference in battery life and noise level -- the two reasons Apple does it that way.

Just as a data point, I'm currently running a video encode on my MacBook Pro (Early 2008/Penryn). iStat Pro says that the CPU temp is 78C. The maximum operating temperature for the CPU is 95C so that's well within tolerances.

Apple uses a lot more metal than other manufacturers in the casings (even in the polycarbonate-hulled MacBooks) and all that metal draws a lot of heat away from the main board. This is good because radiant cooling of the electronics is cheaper than running fans, but it does mean that MacBooks are warmer to the touch than the competition.

--Rich P.
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Re: Minor printer issue Fedora 12 possibly firewall or SeLinux

2009-11-25T04:41:57Z

On 11/24/2009 07:42 PM, jbk wrote:

I had already done this and no response. One way to test is to first

disable the firewall altogether and see if it was the culprit. If so,
then work back from there.

--
Jerry Feldman <gaf@...>
Boston Linux and Unix
PGP key id: 537C5846
PGP Key fingerprint: 3D1B 8377 A3C0 A5F2 ECBB CA3B 4607 4319 537C 5846

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Re: Netbooks

2009-11-24T19:00:12Z

On Nov 24, 2009, at 9:17 PM, Tom Metro wrote:
>
> I suspect is has far more to do with the fact that netbooks are low margin and price competitive. That's not Apple's forté.

Well, Apple is price competitive if you compare apples to apples, so to speak. Apple's prices are very competitive with comparable offerings from Dell, HP, Lenovo. But it's true that Apple doesn't do low end. Netbooks can't deliver the user experience that Apple wants to deliver -- and the fact that hackintoshed netbooks are favorably compared to Apple's state of the art 4 generations back is proof of that. :)

--Rich P.

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Re: power efficiency

2009-11-24T18:28:06Z

On Nov 24, 2009, at 5:52 PM, Chris O'Connell wrote:

> That's a good question. My Macbook gets SUPER hot, so hot it's almost unbelievable.

My MacBook Pro doesn't get very hot. Ever. But most of the time, the heavy computational stuff is being done on either my core 2 quad myth backend or my dual quad-core opteron web/mail/file/build server in the basement. And for video playback, h.264 1080p stuff played back in QuickTime uses marginally more than 0% cpu, as Apple has the equivalent of VDPAU for the nVidia graphics chipsets[*] in this thing.

> That being said, the battery life is really good. I think Apples in general have really good batteries. The newer generations especially. Some of the newest Macbook Pros can last 7-8 hours due to the new super high capacity battery. The new batteries have a 1000 charge cycle compared to the 300 charge cycle of the older machines.

That would be the one I have. All the hokum over "zomg, the battery isn't hot-swappable" is a joke too. Its 8 screws on the bottom of the case to pull it out and replace it if you need to. One of the first things I did was disassemble this thing, pull the 500G rotational storage in it, and put in an Intel X25-M solid state disk -- which also helps out with the battery life and keeps the heat down.

> I don't think there is anything inherent in the OS X operating system that contributes greatly to the battery life being extended.

You're incredibly wrong. Mostly "what Richard said".

> The power management options are similar to that of Windows or Linux. Perhaps there is something going on behind the scenes to in the OS to extend the battery life.

Linux power management is getting better all the time, but quite frankly, it still sucks pretty hard compared to both Windows and Mac OS X. Mac OS X especially. More of "what Richard said". Apple has a lot more control over what hardware their OS is running on (at least in a supported fashion) so they don't have any cheap crap hardware like what ends up in your budget Windows-targeted laptop or netbook, and the drivers for pretty much everything are frequently better tuned (by Apple themselves) for power savings than Linux drivers even for the same quality hardware, which often are simply functional under Linux, with things like auto-suspend and auto-resume of pci express root bridges being an afterthought (or too difficult to reverse-engineer). Similar with graphics chips and any number of other devices in the system. I can go on and on, but the basic thing is that Apple has superior driver support for the smaller set of devices they support, particularly when it comes to e!
eking out as much power savings as possible. And every little bit helps.

> On Tue, Nov 24, 2009 at 5:43 PM, Tom Metro <tmetro-blu@...> wrote:
> Jarod Wilson wrote:
> > The battery life on my 17" MacBook Pro under Mac OS X slaughters the
> > battery life on any Linux-running netbook too.
>
> Really? Is that attributable to the power management in OS X being that
> far ahead of Linux, or is it the MacBook Pro hardware?

Both.

And we haven't even touched on how well other features like auto-dimming the screen in low-light situation, lighting up the keyboard backlight, etc. all work. Not to mention how slick the 24" Apple LED display is with its built-in power adapter for the laptop and the way hot-plugging it actually WORKS the Right Way, 100% of the time upon simply connecting the monitor while Linux still requires manually re-probing for attached displays, and even then, still doesn't always work properly...

Believe it or not, yes, I do still work at Red Hat. :)

[*] Yes, chipsets, plural. I have it set to use the lower-power 9400M when on battery and the higher-power 9600M GT when hooked up to power.

--
Jarod Wilson
jarod@...

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Re: Netbooks

2009-11-24T18:17:13Z

Richard Pieri wrote:
> I already have a "netbook".
> It's my 12" PowerBook G4 from circa 2005.

Sounds fine if you have one already, otherwise a $200 netbook + UNR is a
more economical alternative.

> FWIW, that little factoid about performance and power is a lot of why
> Apple isn't getting into the netbook market. Netbooks are a 4 year
> leap backwards from Apple's perspective.

I suspect is has far more to do with the fact that netbooks are low
margin and price competitive. That's not Apple's forté.

-Tom

--
Tom Metro
Venture Logic, Newton, MA, USA
"Enterprise solutions through open source."
Professional Profile: http://tmetro.venturelogic.com/
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Re: Netbooks

2009-11-24T18:06:03Z

Hi everyone,

I wanted to throw in my two cents about netbooks.

I bought an MSI Wind U100 about a year ago. The machine is well designed,
but the components used are really cheap. The two most problematic
components were the realtek wi-fi card and the touch pad. The wi-fi card
wasn't a big deal, I replaced the card with an Intel card rather easily to
avoid any driver issues with Linux.

The touch pad was really a pain. The Centillics <sp> pad had that annoying
tap-to-click feature that could not be shut off through the GUI or the
xorg.conf file. Driver support was in beta and had to compiled into the
kernel. After adding the driver to the kernel I found that the touch pad
would go crazy after the system woke up from a suspend. I also had to do
some serious surgery to replace the touchpad with a Synaptics pad once I
finally gave up on the Centillics touchpad. Also, the Synaptics pad was
only available from an ASUS parts distributor in the EU somewhere. The
total cost of the pad was $50 after shipping and VAT (some sort of tax?!?).

I'm running my MSI Wind in a tri-boot configuration. I run Mint, Ubuntu and
XP. The battery life is good in XP, running about 2 hours on a 3 cell
battery. The Linux distros do not hold up as well.

I can say the MSI is VERY durable. I dropped mine on a hardwood floor from
about 4 feet of the ground on accident. NO damage. Perhaps just lucky, but
who knows?

The bottom line is that you get what you pay for I guess. If you get the
cheapest possible netbook, ensure that the manufacturer uses a decent mouse
pad and be prepared to deal with wi-fi card issues if a decent card is not
installed.

Chris

On Tue, Nov 24, 2009 at 8:00 PM, john saylor <js0000@...> wrote:

> hi
>
> On Tue, Nov 24, 2009 at 3:36 PM, Tom Metro <tmetro-blu@...> wrote:
> > Which model do you own and like, or
> > have on your wishlist, and why?
>
> well, i have an asus 900 from over a year ago. so it's old in the
> world of netbooks.
>
> it's not the best computer that i've owned, and the keyboard took some
> getting used to, and my battery is shit; but i run ububtu netbook
> remix on it and am mostly happy with it.
>
> it's a bit like a toy, but i have always liked playing with toys. i
> started using it after my ibook got ripped off. it's very portable,
> and i like to think that the power consumption is minimal [although i
> don't know this for a fact] ...
>
> i use it for email and web and it's fine. i may try doing some music
> on it [chuck].
>
> i wouldn't think it's a high margin item, so the computer
> manufacturers are probably not that interested in promoting them ...
>
> it's a very utilitarian machine.
>
> --
> <sig name="\js" random_punctuation="(,::?" />
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Re: Netbooks

2009-11-24T17:00:08Z

hi

On Tue, Nov 24, 2009 at 3:36 PM, Tom Metro <tmetro-blu@...> wrote:
> Which model do you own and like, or
> have on your wishlist, and why?

well, i have an asus 900 from over a year ago. so it's old in the
world of netbooks.

it's not the best computer that i've owned, and the keyboard took some
getting used to, and my battery is shit; but i run ububtu netbook
remix on it and am mostly happy with it.

it's a bit like a toy, but i have always liked playing with toys. i
started using it after my ibook got ripped off. it's very portable,
and i like to think that the power consumption is minimal [although i
don't know this for a fact] ...

i use it for email and web and it's fine. i may try doing some music
on it [chuck].

i wouldn't think it's a high margin item, so the computer
manufacturers are probably not that interested in promoting them ...

it's a very utilitarian machine.

--
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Re: Minor printer issue Fedora 12 possibly firewall or SeLinux

2009-11-24T16:42:10Z

Jerry Feldman wrote:

> On 11/24/2009 09:22 AM, Matthew Gillen wrote:
>
> I've already got that update installed. It's not too much of an issue
> since I've never used Linux to check toner levels before. In the past I
> was able to connect to the printer from Firefox, but not an issue
> either. The main thing this morning was printing, and I found the Cat5
> cable was not clicked in.
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> Discuss mailing list
> Discuss@...
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>

I enabled the cups ipp port 631/udp. I am able to access the printer by
typing its ip in Firefox.

Jim K-R
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Re: power efficiency

2009-11-24T15:31:56Z

On Nov 24, 2009, at 5:52 PM, Chris O'Connell wrote:
>
> I don't think there is anything inherent in the OS X operating system that
> contributes greatly to the battery life being extended. The power
> management options are similar to that of Windows or Linux. Perhaps there
> is something going on behind the scenes to in the OS to extend the battery
> life.

The one thing that I really hate about Linux on notebooks -- and I have more than my fair share of experience with it :) -- is power management sucks. Some of it is the hardware manufacturers' fault, failing to correctly or completely implement the power management specifications. Some of it is Linux's fault, such as the incomplete ACPI implementation early on, and that's not really a fault so much as a lack of developers working on it.

Apple doesn't have either of these problems, especially with the x86 hardware. The hardware is reference-grade or better and Apple itself has a team of developers who know the hardware and write drivers to make it work correctly.

That said, Apple does run the fans at lower speeds than one might expect, so the notebooks run a bit hot. Not unduly so; temperatures do remain within tolerances for the hardware. So they do run hot under load. The lower base fan speeds make a noticeable difference in battery life and noise level -- the two reasons Apple does it that way.

--Rich P.

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Re: Netbooks

2009-11-24T15:18:57Z

On Nov 24, 2009, at 3:36 PM, Tom Metro wrote:
>
> What's new in the world of netbooks? If you've looked through the latest
> models, any stand-out offerings? Which model do you own and like, or
> have on your wishlist, and why?

I know it's just me (and others like me) but I find the whole netbook thing to be more than a little funny. I already have a "netbook". It's my 12" PowerBook G4 from circa 2005. Seriously. The 12" PBG4 has comparable or superior performance and competitive battery life (sometimes better, sometimes worse). Yeah, it's a little bigger and a little heavier, but the screen is much nicer than most netbooks offer, and IME OS X is the best desktop (and notebook/netbook) Unix around. Ubuntu is a good runner up, and I did in fact install UNR on that PowerBook a few months ago just to try out the remix.

YMMV of course.

FWIW, that little factoid about performance and power is a lot of why Apple isn't getting into the netbook market. Netbooks are a 4 year leap backwards from Apple's perspective.

--Rich P.

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Re: Netbooks

2009-11-24T15:11:44Z

On Tue, Nov 24, 2009 at 3:36 PM, Tom Metro <tmetro-blu@...> wrote:

> What's new in the world of netbooks? If you've looked through the latest
> models, any stand-out offerings? Which model do you own and like, or
> have on your wishlist, and why?
>
> Didn't Intel release a dual-core version of the Atom CPU? Shouldn't
> there be a new crop of netbooks using it by now?
>
> I see Nokia has a model with a built-in 3G modem, but it seems to be
> tied to AT&T service.
>
> I see Target has an Acer Aspire One on sale for $200 this week:
> http://www.target.com/gp/detail.html?asin=B0023B138W
>
> though the specs on that model look pretty much the same as netbooks of
> a year ago (which probably explains the price).
>
> -Tom

fwiw i just purchased an hp mini. i plan on doing some traveling and
really liked the size of it.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16834157030 it
doesn't have the fastest atom out but i love it. recommend it. large
keyboard, bright non-glossy screen and it's a pretty good brand (hp).

- eric c

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Re: power efficiency

2009-11-24T14:52:28Z

That's a good question. My Macbook gets SUPER hot, so hot it's almost
unbelievable. That being said, the battery life is really good. I think
Apples in general have really good batteries. The newer generations
especially. Some of the newest Macbook Pros can last 7-8 hours due to the
new super high capacity battery. The new batteries have a 1000 charge cycle
compared to the 300 charge cycle of the older machines.

I don't think there is anything inherent in the OS X operating system that
contributes greatly to the battery life being extended. The power
management options are similar to that of Windows or Linux. Perhaps there
is something going on behind the scenes to in the OS to extend the battery
life.

Chris

On Tue, Nov 24, 2009 at 5:43 PM, Tom Metro <tmetro-blu@...> wrote:

> Jarod Wilson wrote:
> > The battery life on my 17" MacBook Pro under Mac OS X slaughters the
> > battery life on any Linux-running netbook too.
>
> Really? Is that attributable to the power management in OS X being that
> far ahead of Linux, or is it the MacBook Pro hardware?
>
> -Tom
>
> --
> Tom Metro
> Venture Logic, Newton, MA, USA
> "Enterprise solutions through open source."
> Professional Profile: http://tmetro.venturelogic.com/
> _______________________________________________
> Discuss mailing list
> Discuss@...
> http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>

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Re: power efficiency

2009-11-24T14:43:22Z

Jarod Wilson wrote:
> The battery life on my 17" MacBook Pro under Mac OS X slaughters the
> battery life on any Linux-running netbook too.

Really? Is that attributable to the power management in OS X being that
far ahead of Linux, or is it the MacBook Pro hardware?

-Tom

--
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Venture Logic, Newton, MA, USA
"Enterprise solutions through open source."
Professional Profile: http://tmetro.venturelogic.com/
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Re: Netbooks

2009-11-24T13:37:29Z

On 11/24/2009 3:36 PM, Tom Metro wrote:
> What's new in the world of netbooks? If you've looked through the latest
> models, any stand-out offerings? Which model do you own and like, or
> have on your wishlist, and why?
>
> Didn't Intel release a dual-core version of the Atom CPU? Shouldn't
> there be a new crop of netbooks using it by now?

Yes, there are dual-core Atoms (which are really just two CPU die in one
package) but so far they have only shown up in nettops and miniITX
motherboards, not in netbooks.

> I see Nokia has a model with a built-in 3G modem, but it seems to be
> tied to AT&T service.

There are others with built-in 3G, such as the version of the Aspire One
that Radio Shack sells (also tied to AT&T) and the version of the HP
Mini available from Verizon Wireless. Nothing really new there.

The nVidia ION platform was aupposed to be the big new thing in netbooks
this season, but it has barely poked its head up so far. (The only one I
know of that you can actually buy so far is the HP Mini 311.) The other
big trend is bigger systems with 11-12" displays that straddle the line
between netbook and notebook, though Microsoft is doing its best to
squash that category by limiting the cheap Starter Edition of Windows 7
to systems with a 10" screen or smaller. (So you can have XP with a 12"
screen, but then you're limited to 1GB RAM and a 160GB hard disk, or you
can have Win7 with more RAM and disk space but only a 10" screen. Or you
can pay more for a fancier version of Windows, or run Linux instead.)

ASUS just announced a system that combines ION with a dual-core Atom and
a 12" screen: http://blog.laptopmag.com/asus-eee-pc-1201n I expect to
see other similar systems soon.
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Re: Netbooks

2009-11-24T13:15:16Z

On Nov 24, 2009, at 3:36 PM, Tom Metro wrote:

> What's new in the world of netbooks? If you've looked through the latest
> models, any stand-out offerings? Which model do you own and like, or
> have on your wishlist, and why?
>
> Didn't Intel release a dual-core version of the Atom CPU? Shouldn't
> there be a new crop of netbooks using it by now?

The 64-bit dual-core atom 330 and single-core 230 are designed for desktop-ish use, not netbook use. Its the 32-bit N2xx and z5xx line that are intended for netbook use.

> I see Nokia has a model with a built-in 3G modem, but it seems to be
> tied to AT&T service.
>
> I see Target has an Acer Aspire One on sale for $200 this week:
> http://www.target.com/gp/detail.html?asin=B0023B138W
>
> though the specs on that model look pretty much the same as netbooks of
> a year ago (which probably explains the price).

Been pretty underwhelmed by the lack of advances in netbook specs and whatnot myself. I ended up offloading my 8.9" aspire one, just didn't use it that much after the initial honeymoon, because its too damned cramped for any prolonged use, and well, my iphone is a better portable device than a netbook. I might be happier with a 12" netbook that has a higher resolution screen and a bigger keyboard vs. the 8.9", but meh. If I'm going to carry a laptop-ish thing, I might as well carry a real laptop. The battery life on my 17" MacBook Pro under Mac OS X slaughters the battery life on any Linux-running netbook too. And now my ThinkPad T61 is relegated to some of the tasks I previously used my netbook for around the house.

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Netbooks

2009-11-24T12:36:05Z

What's new in the world of netbooks? If you've looked through the latest
models, any stand-out offerings? Which model do you own and like, or
have on your wishlist, and why?

Didn't Intel release a dual-core version of the Atom CPU? Shouldn't
there be a new crop of netbooks using it by now?

I see Nokia has a model with a built-in 3G modem, but it seems to be
tied to AT&T service.

I see Target has an Acer Aspire One on sale for $200 this week:
http://www.target.com/gp/detail.html?asin=B0023B138W

though the specs on that model look pretty much the same as netbooks of
a year ago (which probably explains the price).

-Tom

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Re: disk usage

2009-11-24T12:25:21Z

Matthew Gillen wrote:
> The mythtv backend process had rotated that log file out and deleted
> it, but since the commercial-flagging process still had a handle it
> kept it around (and presumably it was filling it with nonsense).

You might want to adjust the log rotation settings, if you can get at
them. Generally the preferred approach is to move the file, but defer
compressing (or otherwise deleting) it until the next rotation. That way
if any unexpected stragglers keep logging to it, you still have a link
to it.

On my MythTV system it is using logrotate for rotation of backend logs,
and I see they have the copytruncate option specified, which implies
that they expect there will be stragglers. That should keep them logging
to the original file location. If your original file got deleted, then
you must be using different rotation rules.

-Tom

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Re: Minor printer issue Fedora 12 possibly firewall or SeLinux

2009-11-24T10:42:33Z

On 11/24/2009 09:22 AM, Matthew Gillen wrote:

> On 11/24/2009 09:03 AM, Jerry Feldman wrote:
>
>> I did a clean install on Fedora 12, and I set up my printer this morning
>> (HP 4500N - networked color laser). Other than having knocked the cable
>> loose the other day, the printer came up as expected, but I see that
>> there is an ink level display on system-config-printer, but when I run
>> it, I get a printer job that that stays in the queue (test print works
>> fine). Additionally, I am unable to connect to the printer from Firefox.
>> So, it looks like for some reason I have the firewall blocking some
>> ports. I know that http(80) is currently blocked.
>>
> Might not be relevant, but there's a gtk update this morning that said
> something about fixing a printer bug:
> https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-package-announce/2009-November/msg00551.html
>
> If system-config-printer can get to the printer for the 'test print' then it's
> unlikely to be a firewall issue (unless I misunderstood you). You can check
> selinux blocks by running 'sealert'.
>
> You try updating gtk and restarting firefox to see if the problem magically
> goes away.
>

I've already got that update installed. It's not too much of an issue

since I've never used Linux to check toner levels before. In the past I
was able to connect to the printer from Firefox, but not an issue
either. The main thing this morning was printing, and I found the Cat5
cable was not clicked in.

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Re: disk usage

2009-11-24T10:29:05Z

On 11/24/2009 11:10 AM, Dan Kressin wrote:
> --- On Tue, 11/24/09, Matthew Gillen <me@...> wrote:
>> Guess I'll have to reboot. That stinks.
>
> You could try this first:
> ls -l /proc/*/fd/ | grep deleted
>
> /proc generally show missing open files as "filename (deleted)".

Hot damn! That helped me nail it. I used a slight variation on that ( "lsof
| grep deleted" ) to get the processes that owned deleted files, but I didn't
know until you suggested that that it would report deleted files that way.

There were several entries there, some owned by mysql, some by mythtv. Turns
out there was a runaway commercial-flagging job by mythtv that wouldn't die (I
must have missed it in my eye-ball inspection of 'ps' output). The funny
thing is that it wasn't a working file for the video that was eating all the
space, it was the mythbackend-log file! The mythtv backend process had
rotated that log file out and deleted it, but since the commercial-flagging
process still had a handle it kept it around (and presumably it was filling it
with nonsense).

Thanks,
Matt
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Re: disk usage

2009-11-24T08:16:08Z

On 11/24/2009 09:56 AM, Matthew Gillen wrote:

> I'm stumped by my home fileserver's root filesystem usage. I can't understand
> why it's full. df -h reports this:
>
> $ df -h
> Filesystem Size Used Avail Use% Mounted on
> /dev/mapper/RootFsPrimary-RootPrimary
> 30G 28G 460M 99% /
>
> If I mount /dev/mapper/RootFsPrimary-RootPrimary somewhere else and cd to it,
> then run du -sh *, I get this (I deleted all the directories that were only 4K):
> 7.0M bin
> 12K dev
> 102M etc
> 98M lib
> 26M lib64
> 20K lost+found
> 12K mnt
> 24M root
> 17M sbin
> 68K tmp
> 4.9G usr
> 1.1G var
>
> That adds up to less than 7G. Why is my filesystem full then? Where did that
> other 21G go? Any ideas?
>
> Thanks,
> Matt

Could it be a file in the root directory of the file system? Your
command was "du -sh *", which will show you disk usage for every file
under root, but not for root itself. Try again with "du -sh .".

HTH,

DR
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Re: disk usage

2009-11-24T08:10:32Z

--- On Tue, 11/24/09, Matthew Gillen <me@...> wrote:
> Guess I'll have to reboot. That stinks.

You could try this first:
ls -l /proc/*/fd/ | grep deleted

/proc generally show missing open files as "filename (deleted)".

-Dan

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Re: disk usage

2009-11-24T07:41:08Z

On 11/24/2009 10:05 AM, Daniel Feenberg wrote:
> A running program that has open a deleted file will prevent the space
> occupied by the file from being returned to free space, but the file
> will not show up in "du". When the program terminates the space will be
> freed. If your reboot the space should reappear. Short of rebooting, or
> guessing, I am not sure how to determine what is using the space.

That's nasty. Time to start murdering processes...

It doesn't appear to be any of the usual suspects (mythtv-backend,
spamassassin, sendmail, apache, nfs, cups).

Guess I'll have to reboot. That stinks.

On 11/24/2009 10:20 AM, Jarod Wilson wrote:
> (I'm assuming you've already looked for massive /.foo files).

Yes, definitely checked for that. There's an .autofsck file, but nothing
else. Perhaps something went bonkers a couple weeks ago (the creation
timestamp on that autofsck file is Nov 7), and the system said "we'll have to
fix that the next time we reboot" (hence the creation of the autofsck file),
but didn't otherwise notify me?

Thanks for insight guys,
Matt
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Re: disk usage

2009-11-24T07:20:13Z

On Nov 24, 2009, at 9:56 AM, Matthew Gillen wrote:

Some large file that has been "deleted", but isn't really deleted yet, because the refcount on it hasn't dropped to zero yet, due to it being held open by some program? (I'm assuming you've already looked for massive /.foo files).

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Re: disk usage

2009-11-24T07:05:56Z

On Tue, 24 Nov 2009, Matthew Gillen wrote:

A running program that has open a deleted file will prevent the space
occupied by the file from being returned to free space, but the file will
not show up in "du". When the program terminates the space will be freed.
If your reboot the space should reappear. Short of rebooting, or guessing,
I am not sure how to determine what is using the space.

Daniel Feenberg

>
> Thanks,
> Matt
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disk usage

2009-11-24T06:56:12Z

I'm stumped by my home fileserver's root filesystem usage. I can't understand
why it's full. df -h reports this:

$ df -h
Filesystem Size Used Avail Use% Mounted on
/dev/mapper/RootFsPrimary-RootPrimary
30G 28G 460M 99% /

If I mount /dev/mapper/RootFsPrimary-RootPrimary somewhere else and cd to it,
then run du -sh *, I get this (I deleted all the directories that were only 4K):
7.0M bin
12K dev
102M etc
98M lib
26M lib64
20K lost+found
12K mnt
24M root
17M sbin
68K tmp
4.9G usr
1.1G var

That adds up to less than 7G. Why is my filesystem full then? Where did that
other 21G go? Any ideas?

Thanks,
Matt
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Re: Minor printer issue Fedora 12 possibly firewall or SeLinux

2009-11-24T06:28:55Z

On 11/24/2009 09:22 AM, Matthew Gillen wrote:
> You try updating gtk

Apparently when I haven't had enough coffee my grammer turns neanderthalean...

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Re: Minor printer issue Fedora 12 possibly firewall or SeLinux

2009-11-24T06:22:35Z

On 11/24/2009 09:03 AM, Jerry Feldman wrote:
> I did a clean install on Fedora 12, and I set up my printer this morning
> (HP 4500N - networked color laser). Other than having knocked the cable
> loose the other day, the printer came up as expected, but I see that
> there is an ink level display on system-config-printer, but when I run
> it, I get a printer job that that stays in the queue (test print works
> fine). Additionally, I am unable to connect to the printer from Firefox.
> So, it looks like for some reason I have the firewall blocking some
> ports. I know that http(80) is currently blocked.

Might not be relevant, but there's a gtk update this morning that said
something about fixing a printer bug:
https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-package-announce/2009-November/msg00551.html

If system-config-printer can get to the printer for the 'test print' then it's
unlikely to be a firewall issue (unless I misunderstood you). You can check
selinux blocks by running 'sealert'.

You try updating gtk and restarting firefox to see if the problem magically
goes away.

Matt
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Minor printer issue Fedora 12 possibly firewall or SeLinux

2009-11-24T06:03:14Z

I did a clean install on Fedora 12, and I set up my printer this morning
(HP 4500N - networked color laser). Other than having knocked the cable
loose the other day, the printer came up as expected, but I see that
there is an ink level display on system-config-printer, but when I run
it, I get a printer job that that stays in the queue (test print works
fine). Additionally, I am unable to connect to the printer from Firefox.
So, it looks like for some reason I have the firewall blocking some
ports. I know that http(80) is currently blocked.

--
Jerry Feldman <gaf@...>
Boston Linux and Unix
PGP key id: 537C5846
PGP Key fingerprint: 3D1B 8377 A3C0 A5F2 ECBB CA3B 4607 4319 537C 5846

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Re: Go (language)

2009-11-24T03:59:58Z

On 11/23/2009 09:59 PM, Matthew Gillen wrote:

> On 11/23/2009 07:45 PM, Jerry Feldman wrote:
>
>> Unfortunately a compiled language like C or C++ (or FORTRAN) is
>> dependent upon the platform. The people that write the language
>> standards don't generally go far enough to define environments.
>>
> My experience has been that often when you're doing non-trivial things,
> interpreted languages are dependent on the platform too (try using Java
> thread priorities on windows and linux). Interpreted languages generally do
> a better job of hiding the problem, but it's never mitigated completely
> (unless some language is really willing to standardize on the lowest common
> denominator for all platforms, which none ever will if they want to be taken
> seriously).
>
>
>> Unix/Linux, Windows, and Mac have very different graphical user
>> interfaces. QT does a good job of standardizing things, but in contrast
>> a JVM or PVM can be written once for each platform. Where in C/C++ David
>> might want to use QT, I might want to use GTK, JABR might want to use
>> OpenMotif.
>>
> QT and GTK were written once for each platform, and code that uses it only
> has to be written once as well (it has to be compiled multiple times, but
> that's a different job and different level of effort). Unless you're making
> the point that none of the above are a 'blessed standard' like Swing/AWT.
> To that I would say that QT and GTK are defacto standards (for C++ and C
> respectively, and you do treat C and C++ as different languages, don't you?
> :-) ). There was gtkmm (C++ wrapper for GTK), but it didn't get much use
> even before QT went LGPL (to match GTK). WxWindows is probably the
> strongest competitor to QT in the C++ world, but a quick dependency search
> of installed software on my machine tells me QT is used quite a bit more.
>
> Don't get me wrong, having a blessed standard is good for a lot of reasons.
> I just don't think the C and C++ worlds are quite so hopelessly fragmented
> as they're sometimes made out to be.
>
>

Actually, my company's product is replacing their OpenMotif GUI with a

QT based one. Currently the product runs on Linux, Solaris, and AIX, but
a Windows version is in the future.

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Re: Go (language)

2009-11-23T18:59:31Z

On 11/23/2009 07:45 PM, Jerry Feldman wrote:
> Unfortunately a compiled language like C or C++ (or FORTRAN) is
> dependent upon the platform. The people that write the language
> standards don't generally go far enough to define environments.

My experience has been that often when you're doing non-trivial things,
interpreted languages are dependent on the platform too (try using Java
thread priorities on windows and linux). Interpreted languages generally do
a better job of hiding the problem, but it's never mitigated completely
(unless some language is really willing to standardize on the lowest common
denominator for all platforms, which none ever will if they want to be taken
seriously).

> Unix/Linux, Windows, and Mac have very different graphical user
> interfaces. QT does a good job of standardizing things, but in contrast
> a JVM or PVM can be written once for each platform. Where in C/C++ David
> might want to use QT, I might want to use GTK, JABR might want to use
> OpenMotif.

QT and GTK were written once for each platform, and code that uses it only
has to be written once as well (it has to be compiled multiple times, but
that's a different job and different level of effort). Unless you're making
the point that none of the above are a 'blessed standard' like Swing/AWT.
To that I would say that QT and GTK are defacto standards (for C++ and C
respectively, and you do treat C and C++ as different languages, don't you?
:-) ). There was gtkmm (C++ wrapper for GTK), but it didn't get much use
even before QT went LGPL (to match GTK). WxWindows is probably the
strongest competitor to QT in the C++ world, but a quick dependency search
of installed software on my machine tells me QT is used quite a bit more.

Don't get me wrong, having a blessed standard is good for a lot of reasons.
I just don't think the C and C++ worlds are quite so hopelessly fragmented
as they're sometimes made out to be.

Matt
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Re: Go (language)

2009-11-23T17:03:27Z

On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 7:45 PM, Jerry Feldman <gaf@...> wrote:
> JABR might want to use OpenMotif.

I don't know that *anyone* /wants/ to use OpenMotif...sometimes people
just get forced into it. One advantage of having so many graphical
libraries out there is that there's at least a better chance of not
getting stuck with a crappy one. :--) (If I sound bitter, it's because
I once got stuck with TeleUSE. ::shudder::)

Gordon
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Re: Go (language)

2009-11-23T16:49:32Z

I think things need to be placed into perspective. C was written
specifically to write operating systems with, and it did a very good
job. With C and C++ you are closer to the hardware, but you correctly
point out that things like Python and Java tend to be easier to work
with in a graphics environment.

On 11/23/2009 10:28 AM, Jared Carlson wrote:

> Isn't this what people are up against to a degree though in terms of really creating applications though? I've been writing applications for a couple of years, and whether it's been a Python front end that talks to some low-level C code or, for example with the iPhone, Objective-C has a runtime and so you write your algorithms - the bottlenecks - in C and the UI functionality is in Objective-C. More and more frequently I'm using higher level scripting languages such as Python, Ruby, or Objective-C for the UI, but I never get away from old fashioned C code because I have that excellent combination of control and performance.
>
> I'm not trying to take sides, but I just see more and more often, especially on mobile devices, you need access to the device but you don't have to be tied to C for a laborious front-end. I actually enjoy being able to get control with my C code but then once I'm done with that portion of the code I can reuse a framework for the interface.
>
> Anyway, just my thoughts...
>
> - Jared
>
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: David Kramer <david@...>
> To: discuss@...
> Sent: Mon, November 23, 2009 7:47:00 AM
> Subject: Re: Go (language)
>
> Jerry Feldman wrote:
>
>> On 11/22/2009 09:27 PM, David Kramer wrote:
>>
>>> I like C++, but cross-platform is very important to me, and the C++
>>> standard doesn't cover enough of what's needed for a real app, which is
>>> why I spend most of my time in Java or Perl or PHP. Most of what's
>>> missing is platform/OS independent IO.
>>>
>>>
>> Please elaborate on this. I have done much cross platform work on C and
>> C++. Most of the platform dependencies are not so much language, but in
>> functions and procedures that are not part of the C or C++ standards.
>>
> Uhm, that's what I said. You can't write a portable C or C++ program
> with a GUI, or a database, or a web service, etc without involving
> (usually that means buying) third-party libraries. Java offers other
> things, like a way of determining the running environment's text file
> line endings systematically, locale information like time zone and DST
> rules, etc.
>
> That doesn't mean C and C++ aren't important or useful for a lot of
> things, but (for me) not as full applications.
>
>

--
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Boston Linux and Unix
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