Nabble - Brahmo Truth

The Brahmo Samaj movement - the five point programme to revitalise it

2009-11-17T10:08:07Z

Dear all,

I am happy to publish below the speech of Prof.(Dr.) Sumanata Niyogi who was the President of 119th All India Brahmo Conference held in Hazaribag, from 31st Oct-2Nov, 2009.

http://docs.google.com/View?id=dssvmvw_1357dhqcxgn

The speech, "The Brahmo Samaj movement - the five point programme to revitalise it" was printed and circulated during the conference. I converted this to e-text by scanning and applying OCR. May be in the process, there are some mistakes.

Regards,
- Debanjan Ray

The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! See your Yahoo! Homepage. http://in.yahoo.com/

RE: 119th All India Brahmoconference at Hazaribag

2009-11-15T19:52:00Z

Dear Mr. Biswajit Dutta,

Thanks a lot for giving us an excellent summary of the 119th Brahmoconference at Hazaribag. I regret that I missed to attend this great session. It seems that this time there was a huge participation.

Prof. Sumanta Niyogi called me and volunteered to send his Presidential speech to me. Once I receive, I would try to convert to etext and send in this group ( and archive in http://docs.google.com/Doc?id=dssvmvw_3dfxp7jd2 ). A formal report would be published by Mr. Subhash De after some time.

With best regards,
Debanjan Ray
________________________________
From: brahmoconferenceorg@... [mailto:brahmoconferenceorg@...] On Behalf Of biswajit dutta
Sent: Sunday, November 15, 2009 8:36 PM
To: brahmoconferenceorg@...
Subject: [brahmoconferenceorg] 119th All India Brahmoconference at Hazaribag

The 119th All India Brahmo Conference was held successfully at Hazaribag Brahmo Samaj from 31/10/09-02/11/09 . The conference theme - "Challenges In Contemporary India And Brahmo Samaj" . Hosted with clinical efficiency by Brahmos/Brahmo minded non-Brahmos of Hazaribag under the overall supervision & guidance of Sm. Shanti Chatterjee & Sri Nilanjan Chatterjee(the Chairperson & Secretary of the Organizing Committee) , it received overwhelming participation of over 150 delegates from across the country .

It was my maiden visit to this annual event & the delegate roster showing significant attendance from Indore , Hyderabad , Kakinada , Simla , Jaipur , Hazaribag & Patna besides Kolkata was a revelation . All is not lost after all . The flame of Brahmoism , even if no longer burning brightly , has certainly not extinguished . The religion holds much potential still & there are dedicated followers around to spread the message , if & only if such commitment is given proper shape & direction .

The Conference kicked off with the customary flag hoisting by Shri Sumanta Niyogi - the President of the Conference , Upasana & Brohmo Sangeet . Prof . Niyogi in his presidential address while recalling the illustrious past of the Samaj & the yeomen service rendered by Rammohun , Debendranath , Keshab Chandra , Sivanath & the like in being at the forefront of religious , social , educational , political & cultural renaissance rightly did a reality check on its present emaciated state . Making a clarion call to revitalize our religion & restore it to its pristine glory , Prof . Niyogi outlined his own panch sheel or five point agenda :-
i)Carte blanche for youth to be at the vanguard of all Brahmo activities .
ii)Motivating non-Brahmos to be involved in Samaj affairs .
iii)Contributing liberally towards Samaj funds .
iv)Acquainting Brahmo & non-Brahmo children & youth about basic principles of Brahmoism & its great leaders by developing simple Brahmo texts & books .
v)Exhorting all Brahmos to stay connected via brahmoconference@...<mailto:brahmoconference@...> .

The hoary tradition of Hazaribag Brahmo Samaj , their ability to sink differences & work for greater social good like establishment of charitable homeopathic dispensary(which incidentally entered its 75th year this year) inside the Samaj premises by Shri Manmathanath Dasgupta were repeatedly highlighted during the meet . The message was loud & clear - Brahmos in order to stay relevant in the modern era have to find ways & means to be useful to society at large .

The interactive sessions & seminars covered diverse areas like Challenges in Contemporary India & Brahmo Samaj , Contribution of Hazaribag Brahmo Samaj , Women Emancipation : the Brahmo Way , Youth As Architect of Modern India & Brahmo Samaj : An Introspection . Some of the keynote speakers were extremely lucid & articulate in their presentation . I specially remember one by Dr. Sajal Mukherjee of Hazaribag Brahmo Samaj . It was firebrand oratory . Alas , only if such speeches could be translated to organized & concrete action for betterment of our Samajes ! Brahmo Conferences should no longer remain mere talk shops . It should be more an annual stock taking exercise , a chintan baithak where action plans for the coming years are formulated , responsibilities assigned , results of the past year analyzed & corrective measures implemented . We cannot afford to remain rooted in history & have to move on . The present & future is what matters .

On the whole I enjoyed my stay in Hazaribag . A big thumbs up to the organizers ! Such retreats are great opportunities to network , tone up your Brahmoism & re-dedicate yourself to the Brahmo way . The Brohmo Sangeets by Sm. Shukla Dasgupta & troupe were great . The Indore Brahmo Samaj group kept up our spirits with delightful bhajans . The only father daughter duo in the world of Rabindrasangeet - Debashish Raychaudhuri & his daughter Rohini were pleasing to the senses . Listening to upasanas in Hindi & English were also a novelty .

I would like to make special mention here of the affable , amiable & avuncular , Prof. Sumanta Niyogi . You made tireless efforts to make this conference a success . The way you personally kept track of delegates & their well being were commendable . It was a pleasure knowing you Sir .

I missed the two live wires of Brahmoconference Yahoo Groups . The Ray duo - Debanjan & Sarbajit . I would have loved to meet them .

Thats it from me . See you next December in Kakinada .

Biswajit Dutta
(Management & Financial Consultant)
Phone : (033)25214443/27062201
Fax : (033)25214443
Mobile : 09830224246
E-Mail :bis.dutta@...<mailto:bis.dutta@...>

________________________________
________________________________
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119th All India Brahmoconference at Hazaribag

2009-11-15T07:05:45Z

The 119th All
India Brahmo Conference was held successfully at Hazaribag Brahmo
Samaj from 31/10/09-02/11/09 . The conference theme – “Challenges In
Contemporary India And Brahmo Samaj” . Hosted with clinical efficiency by
Brahmos/Brahmo minded non-Brahmos of Hazaribag under the overall supervision
& guidance of Sm. Shanti Chatterjee & Sri Nilanjan Chatterjee(the
Chairperson & Secretary of the Organizing Committee) , it received
overwhelming participation of over 150 delegates from across the country .

It was my maiden visit to this annual event & the
delegate roster showing significant attendance from Indore
, Hyderabad , Kakinada
, Simla , Jaipur , Hazaribag & Patna besides Kolkata was a revelation .
All is not lost after all . The flame of Brahmoism , even if no longer burning brightly , has
certainly not extinguished . The religion holds much potential still &
there are dedicated followers around to spread the message , if & only if
such commitment is given proper shape & direction .

The Conference kicked off with the customary flag hoisting
by Shri Sumanta Niyogi - the President of the Conference , Upasana & Brohmo
Sangeet . Prof . Niyogi in his presidential address while recalling the
illustrious past of the Samaj & the yeomen service rendered by Rammohun ,
Debendranath , Keshab Chandra , Sivanath & the like in being at the
forefront of religious , social , educational , political & cultural
renaissance rightly did a reality check on its present emaciated state . Making
a clarion call to revitalize our religion & restore it to its pristine
glory , Prof . Niyogi outlined his own panch sheel or five point agenda :-

i)Carte blanche for youth to be at the vanguard of all Brahmo
activities .

ii)Motivating non-Brahmos to be involved in Samaj
affairs .

iii)Contributing liberally towards Samaj funds .

iv)Acquainting Brahmo & non-Brahmo children & youth
about basic principles of Brahmoism & its great leaders by developing
simple Brahmo texts & books .

v)Exhorting all Brahmos to stay connected via brahmoconference@... .

The hoary tradition of Hazaribag Brahmo Samaj , their
ability to sink differences &
work for greater social good like establishment of
charitable homeopathic dispensary(which incidentally entered its 75th
year this year) inside the Samaj premises by Shri Manmathanath Dasgupta were
repeatedly highlighted during the meet . The message was loud & clear –
Brahmos in order to stay relevant in the modern era have to find ways &
means to be useful to society at large .

The interactive sessions & seminars covered diverse
areas like Challenges in Contemporary India & Brahmo Samaj , Contribution
of Hazaribag Brahmo Samaj , Women Emancipation : the Brahmo Way , Youth As
Architect of Modern India & Brahmo Samaj : An Introspection . Some of the
keynote speakers were extremely lucid & articulate in their presentation .
I specially remember one by Dr. Sajal Mukherjee of Hazaribag Brahmo Samaj . It
was firebrand oratory . Alas , only if such speeches could be translated to
organized & concrete action for betterment of our Samajes ! Brahmo
Conferences should no longer remain mere talk shops . It should be more an
annual stock taking exercise , a chintan baithak where action plans for the
coming years are formulated , responsibilities assigned , results of the past
year analyzed & corrective measures implemented . We cannot afford to
remain rooted in history & have to move on . The present & future is
what matters .

On the whole I enjoyed my stay in Hazaribag . A big thumbs
up to the organizers ! Such retreats are great opportunities to network , tone
up your Brahmoism & re-dedicate yourself to the Brahmo way . The Brohmo
Sangeets by Sm. Shukla Dasgupta & troupe were great . The Indore Brahmo Samaj
group kept up our spirits with delightful bhajans . The only father daughter
duo in the world of Rabindrasangeet – Debashish Raychaudhuri & his daughter
Rohini were pleasing to the senses . Listening to upasanas in Hindi &
English were also a novelty .

I would like to make special mention here of the affable ,
amiable & avuncular , Prof. Sumanta Niyogi . You made tireless efforts to
make this conference a success . The way you personally kept track of delegates
& their well being were commendable . It was a pleasure knowing you Sir .

I missed the two live wires of Brahmoconference Yahoo Groups
. The Ray duo – Debanjan & Sarbajit . I would have loved to meet them .

Thats it from me . See you next December in Kakinada
.

Biswajit Dutta
(Management & Financial Consultant)

Phone : (033)25214443/27062201
Fax : (033)25214443
Mobile : 09830224246
E-Mail :bis.dutta@...

Connect more, do more and share more with Yahoo! India Mail. Learn more. http://in.overview.mail.yahoo.com/

Thanks

2009-10-08T03:20:33Z

Dear Friends,
Thank U very much for your Best Wishes for the Sunday gathering.
I would Request U to Kindly send me Your Postal address so that I can Send U our Annual School Magazine VIDYA which was released on the occassion of Magh Utsav but I hear many of you haven't recvd it yet.
2ndly if you dont mind ,with all due respect to u all could u Please mention your samaj's name for our records also. I haven't met many of you but Only connect you with your names n the emails that I receive.
Thanks a lot
With Kind Regards,
Rekha

UN says caste system is a human rights abuse

2009-10-03T03:48:27Z

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/india/6239842/UN-says-caste-system-is-a-human-rights-abuse.html
UN says caste system is a human rights abuse United Nations is to declare
discrimination based on the Indian caste system is a human rights abuse.
"The UN's Human Rights Council, meeting in Geneva, is expected to ratify
draft principles which recognises the scale of persecution suffered by 65
million 'untouchables' or 'Dalits' who carry out the most menial and
degrading work

Many of them work as lavatory and sewer cleaners and in remote villages as
"night-soil carriers".

They are considered unclean by many higher-caste 'Brahmins' who regard their
presence, and sometimes even their shadow as 'polluting'.

Many Dalits have been badly beaten or killed for 'polluting' Brahmin wells
by drinking from them.

The UN draft, which has been opposed by India, pledges to work for the
"effective elimination of discrimination based on work and descent".

The Indian government had lobbied heavily for the Human Rights Council to
remove the word 'caste' from a draft earlier this year.

India's opposition was undermined however by Nepal, the former Hindu
Kingdom, which has supported the move. Its foreign minister Jeet Bahadur
Darjee Gautam said Nepal welcomes UN and international support for its
attempts to tackle caste discrimination.

The UN has now called on India to follow Nepal's example, but New Delhi
remains opposed to international interference on the issue.

Navanethem Pillay, the UN's High Commissioner for Human Rights, who is a
South African Tamil, said Nepal's response marked a "significant step by a
country grappling with this problem itself" and urged other states to follow
its lead.

The issue is sensitive in India where untouchables and other low-caste
groups wield increasing political influence, particularly in Uttar Pradesh,
its most populous state, where the pro-Dalit Bahujan Samaj Party rules and
its chief minister Mayawati has erected statues commemorating Dalit heroes.

Rahul Gandhi, the architect of the Congress Party's recent general election
victory, has raised the profile of the case issue recently by staying with
Dalit families during visits to Uttar Pradesh.

The caste divisions have become institutionalised by quotas for Dalits in
government jobs and university places, which has in turn angered higher
caste groups.

Dr Udit Raj, of the Dalit-based Indian Justice Party, last night welcomed
the move, which he said would focus international attention on the issue and
lead to an increase in aid and government spending to improve Dalit
opportunities in India.

"It's very good. We almost lost the battle last April, but now it seems we
will have our victory. This will get attention at a global level and that
will focus resources from bodies like the European Union. Aid will flow to
India.

"But the Indian government should have the courage to accept there's
discrimination," he said."
--
Shymal Dutta Basu
(Dept of Sociology)
University of California at Merced

Fw: INVITATION:Mahbub Ul Haq Debate

2009-09-21T10:13:48Z

Subject: INVITATION:Mahbub Ul Haq Debate
>On Tue, 15 Sep 2009 19:59:14 +0530
Dear Friends,
>
>It gives me great pleasure to invite you to the 12th Inter School Mahbub- ul- Haq Debate Competition, organized by Kamla High School & Junior College in association with The Rajiv Gandhi Foundation (RGF), The Rajiv Gandhi Institute for Contemporary Studies and the United Nations Development Programme.
>
>The preliminary round will be held in our institute on:
>Wednesday 23rd September 2009 at 9:00 am

>This year the theme of the Asia Pacific HDR is gender and the topic for the preliminary round is:
> Act now to reduce global warming poor women have a bigger stake?
>
>The medium of discussion will be English. Each participating school willnominate two students for the prelimin ary round, one for the motion & one against the motion. Each speaker will be allowed 3 min + 1 min for concluding. There will be no interjections. Each speaker will be judged individually & marks will be awarded on the basis of content, presentation & time limit compliance. .
>This year the preliminary round of the debate will be held at 15 locations, namely Ahmedabad, Bengalooru, Bhopal, Bhubneshwar, Chandigarh, Chennai, Dehradun, Delhi, Hyderabad, Jaipur, Kolkata, Lucknow, Mumbai, Simla and Srinagar.
>
>The winning team will be participating in the finals to be held during the third week of October 2009. Their transport and stay of the participants & accompanying teachers (2+1) will be borne by the RGF. The winner of the national round will represent India to participate in the SAARC submit in the end of DEC in colombo.
HOpe to see you.
Kind Regards,
>
>In the Cause of Better Education,
>I remain,
>Yours sincerely,
>Rekha Jagasia
>Principal
>Kamla High School
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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RE: Re: Tuhfat-Ul-Muwahiddin by Raja Rammohun Roy - Summary

2009-09-03T02:13:48Z

Dear Saurav,

Thanks a lot.

Could you pl. upload in http://picasaweb.google.com<http://picasaweb.google.com/> ? You have to create an a/c; then upload photos and publish the link

The advantages of this site compared to yahoo photo album:
1) Members of our brahmoconf. group having non-yahoo mail id can access the link publish by you.

2) Viewers can download all the pages in one shot from the site, and can read offline. They can view online too.

In http://picasaweb.google.com<http://picasaweb.google.com/>, there is a tool available ( you have to install), through which you can upload photos /scanned images from a local folder ( and sub-folders) automatically.

With best regards,
Debanjan Ray
________________________________
From: brahmoconferenceorg@... [mailto:brahmoconferenceorg@...] On Behalf Of saurav de
Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 8:28 AM
To: brahmoconferenceorg@...
Subject: Re: [brahmoconferenceorg] Re: Tuhfat-Ul-Muwahiddin by Raja Rammohun Roy - Summary

Dear friends,

A good news for you. Very recently I got the book (translated in english). I am tring to upload in the photo album.

Thank you.

With Regards
Saurav De

--- On Mon, 10/8/09, sroy1947 <sroy1947@...> wrote:

From: sroy1947 <sroy1947@...>
Subject: [brahmoconferenceorg] Re: Tuhfat-Ul-Muwahiddin by Raja Rammohun Roy - Summary
To: brahmoconferenceorg@...
Date: Monday, 10 August, 2009, 1:37 PM

Dear Group Moderator

* The attachment is not forwarded to group members.

* A scholarly analysis of Rammohun's Tuhfat can be read here,

http://epress. anu.edu.au/ cw/mobile_ devices/ch14s03. html<http://epress.anu.edu.au/cw/mobile_devices/ch14s03.html> (introduction)
http://epress. anu.edu.au/ cw/mobile_ devices/ch14s04. html<http://epress.anu.edu.au/cw/mobile_devices/ch14s04.html> (page-1)
http://epress. anu.edu.au/ cw/mobile_ devices/ch14s05. html<http://epress.anu.edu.au/cw/mobile_devices/ch14s05.html> (page-2)
http://epress. anu.edu.au/ cw/mobile_ devices/ch14s06. html<http://epress.anu.edu.au/cw/mobile_devices/ch14s06.html> (page-3)
http://epress. anu.edu.au/ cw/mobile_ devices/ch14s07. html<http://epress.anu.edu.au/cw/mobile_devices/ch14s07.html> (page-4)

--- In brahmoconferenceorg @yahoogroups. com</mc/compose?to=brahmoconferenceorg%40yahoogroups.com>, "Ray, Debanjan IN BLR SISL" <debanjan.ray@ ...> wrote:

>
> Dear all,
>
> You may find the attached short article interesting. You might be aware that Tuhfat-Ul-Muwahiddi n is one of the earliest but finest creations of Raja Rammohun Roy and was written in Arabic language.
>
> Unfortunately, the attached summary is in Bengali language. May be one can take initiative to translate it in English.
>
> I have a full Bengali translation of the article. But I found the one page summary quite interesting. This was published in Dharmatattwa magazine published by Bharatbarshiya Brahma Samaj in the edition 16Sep08-14thJan09.
>
> Does anyone has English translation of Tuhfat-Ul-Muwahiddi n?
>
> With best regards,
> Debanjan Ray
>

________________________________
________________________________
Yahoo! recommends that you upgrade to the new and safer Internet Explorer 8<http://in.rd.yahoo.com/tagline_ie8_1/*http:/downloads.yahoo.com/in/internetexplorer/>.

Re: Re: Tuhfat-Ul-Muwahiddin by Raja Rammohun Roy - Summary

2009-08-11T19:57:54Z

Dear friends,
A good news for you. Very recently I got the book (translated in english). I am tring to upload in the photo album.
Thank you.
With RegardsSaurav De

--- On Mon, 10/8/09, sroy1947 <sroy1947@...> wrote:

From: sroy1947 <sroy1947@...>
Subject: [brahmoconferenceorg] Re: Tuhfat-Ul-Muwahiddin by Raja Rammohun Roy - Summary
To: brahmoconferenceorg@...
Date: Monday, 10 August, 2009, 1:37 PM

Dear Group Moderator

* The attachment is not forwarded to group members.

* A scholarly analysis of Rammohun's Tuhfat can be read here,

http://epress. anu.edu.au/ cw/mobile_ devices/ch14s03. html (introduction)

http://epress. anu.edu.au/ cw/mobile_ devices/ch14s04. html (page-1)

http://epress. anu.edu.au/ cw/mobile_ devices/ch14s05. html (page-2)

http://epress. anu.edu.au/ cw/mobile_ devices/ch14s06. html (page-3)

http://epress. anu.edu.au/ cw/mobile_ devices/ch14s07. html (page-4)

--- In brahmoconferenceorg @yahoogroups. com, "Ray, Debanjan IN BLR SISL" <debanjan.ray@ ...> wrote:

>

> Dear all,

>

> You may find the attached short article interesting. You might be aware that Tuhfat-Ul-Muwahiddi n is one of the earliest but finest creations of Raja Rammohun Roy and was written in Arabic language.

>

> Unfortunately, the attached summary is in Bengali language. May be one can take initiative to translate it in English.

>

> I have a full Bengali translation of the article. But I found the one page summary quite interesting. This was published in Dharmatattwa magazine published by Bharatbarshiya Brahma Samaj in the edition 16Sep08-14thJan09.

>

> Does anyone has English translation of Tuhfat-Ul-Muwahiddi n?

>

> With best regards,

> Debanjan Ray

>

Yahoo! recommends that you upgrade to the new and safer Internet Explorer 8. http://downloads.yahoo.com/in/internetexplorer/

Re: Tuhfat-Ul-Muwahiddin by Raja Rammohun Roy - Summary

2009-08-10T01:07:57Z

Dear Group Moderator

* The attachment is not forwarded to group members.

* A scholarly analysis of Rammohun's Tuhfat can be read here,

http://epress.anu.edu.au/cw/mobile_devices/ch14s03.html (introduction)
http://epress.anu.edu.au/cw/mobile_devices/ch14s04.html (page-1)
http://epress.anu.edu.au/cw/mobile_devices/ch14s05.html (page-2)
http://epress.anu.edu.au/cw/mobile_devices/ch14s06.html (page-3)
http://epress.anu.edu.au/cw/mobile_devices/ch14s07.html (page-4)

--- In brahmoconferenceorg@..., "Ray, Debanjan IN BLR SISL" <debanjan.ray@...> wrote:

>
> Dear all,
>
> You may find the attached short article interesting. You might be aware that Tuhfat-Ul-Muwahiddin is one of the earliest but finest creations of Raja Rammohun Roy and was written in Arabic language.
>
> Unfortunately, the attached summary is in Bengali language. May be one can take initiative to translate it in English.
>
> I have a full Bengali translation of the article. But I found the one page summary quite interesting. This was published in Dharmatattwa magazine published by Bharatbarshiya Brahma Samaj in the edition 16Sep08-14thJan09.
>
> Does anyone has English translation of Tuhfat-Ul-Muwahiddin?
>
> With best regards,
> Debanjan Ray
>

Tuhfat-Ul-Muwahiddin by Raja Rammohun Roy - Summary [1 Attachment]

2009-08-09T22:09:36Z

Dear all,

You may find the attached short article interesting. You might be aware that Tuhfat-Ul-Muwahiddin is one of the earliest but finest creations of Raja Rammohun Roy and was written in Arabic language.

Unfortunately, the attached summary is in Bengali language. May be one can take initiative to translate it in English.

I have a full Bengali translation of the article. But I found the one page summary quite interesting. This was published in Dharmatattwa magazine published by Bharatbarshiya Brahma Samaj in the edition 16Sep08-14thJan09.

Does anyone has English translation of Tuhfat-Ul-Muwahiddin?

With best regards,
Debanjan Ray

Social change just drops in ocean of casteism

2009-08-05T23:42:36Z

Dear all,

You may find this article interesting.
Source: Times of India, Bangalore, 5th Aug 2009, page-11

Quotes: "More than 60 years after Independence , untouchability is alive and thriving in India's hinterlands......... And ironically, even in Radhanagar in Hooghly district, the birthplace of social reformer Raja Ram Mohan Roy, there are separate crematoria for Brahmins and non-Brahmins"

With best regards,
Debanjan Ray

========================
Social change just drops in ocean of casteism

A Survey By NLS, Bangalore, Says Untouchability Is Still Alive And Thriving In Indias Hinterlands

Shobha John | TNN

More than 60 years after Independence , untouchability is alive and thriving in India's hinterlands . Pockets of social change have been but mere drops in an ocean of casteism and prejudice. This was borne out in a survey by National Law School, Bangalore , which was reported recently.
Following this, TOI correspondents did a reality check in eight states across India. Dalits are still segregated with little access to temples, water sources and upper-caste areas. And ironically, even in Radhanagar in Hooghly district, the birthplace of social reformer Raja Ram Mohan Roy, there are separate crematoria for Brahmins and non-Brahmins . And in a bizarre case in Waganagere village in Gulbarga district of Karnataka, 120 Dalit households were forced to draw water from their well even after a dog fell in and died.
They had no option tubewells of upper castes were barred to them. During festivities, not only are they served food separately, but they have to bring their own plates and tumblers. Gulbarga, incidentally , has 126 cases registered under the SC/ST Prevention of Atrocities Act 1989 and the Protection of Civil Rights Act 1955, the highest in Karnataka.
In UP, almost every village has a chamar toli, a place segregated for them. Dalit children are made to sit separately in schools. In Malasa village in Kanpur Dehat, though the post of gram pradhan was reserved for scheduled castes, it has been lying vacant as no Dalit has the courage to contest th e election, fearing backlash from the dominant Thakurs. And when they do, as two Dalits did last year, their candidature was rejected because no one, not even Dalits , seconded them during the filing of nomination papers. Uniquely in UP, untouchability is practised by Dalits too.
In Rajasthans Dholeria Shashan village near Pali, newcomers are interrogated and if they are scheduled castes, entry is tough. They also cannot pass upper caste houses wearing footwear or headgear, says poet and writer Vinod Vithall. Segregation is also blighting the next generation. In Rajpur tehsil, 60 km from Kanpur, Thakurs withdrew their children from a primary school after a Dalit cook was employed to prepare midday meals. In 2008, Dalit students were attacked by upper castes for allegedly taking admission in a vedic learning course in Sampoornanand University in Varanasi. The discrimination is ludicrous at times. Four months back, in Machhroli village of Jhajjar district of Haryana, a Dalit groom who rode a horse was forced off it by upper castes. In Meham town of Rohtak district, Kanwariyas couldnt offer Ganga water in Shiv temples unless the upper castes did so first. Most often, says Dr Khajan Singh, head of the sociology department at Maharshi Dayanand University in Rohtak, Dalits prefer temples they themselves construct.
D Shyam Babu, senior fellow, Rajiv Gandhi Foundation, says authorities often turn a blind eye to caste atrocities. Acts which protect the lower castes arent implemented either. The National Commission for Scheduled Castes in Chandigarh admitted that it receives 3-4 complaints daily. Ajmer district police reportedly has recorded 360 cases pertaining to SCs/STs over the past 18 months. In UP, over two dozen such cases were filed in the last six months. But Dalits have now started asserting themselves . In Tamil Nadu, upper castes are now at the receiving end after two decades of virulent clashes. In Punjab, thanks to the Green Revolution and prosperity , most Dalits have a good lifestyle, says Balwinder Singh Sidhu, a government official, though there are pockets of discrimination.
Individuals have made a difference too. Tamil Nadu inspector general Pratheep V Philip has started a social justice tea party where the police provide tea to villagers and counsel them against discriminating Dalits. Philip says, Now, Dalits are able to sit with caste Hindus in several villages. And dining, says Dr Bindeshwar Pathak, founder, Sulabh International, is the true measure of acceptance. Two months back in Alwar, a Brahmin invited Dalits to his daughters wedding, fed them and accepted their gifts, he says.
In rural Bengal, says social scientist Amal Mukhopadhyay, inter-caste marriages too are taking place. Bihar saw the appointment of 12 Dalits as head priests recently, thanks to Kishore Kunal , administrator of Bihar State Board of Religious Trusts. So will B R Ambedkars dream of an India where untouchables are not a sub-division of Hindus , but a separate and distinct element in the national life fructify

(With inputs by Ashish Tripathi and Faiz Rehman Siddiqui, Lucknow; Ramaninder K Bhatia, Chandigarh; Deepender Deswal, Rohtak; Ajay Parmar and Kshitiz Gaur, Jaipur; Sanjeev Kumar Verma , Patna; Falguni Banerjee and Ashish Poddar in Kolkata; Prashanth G N, Bangalore ; and Radha Venkatesan, Chennai)

.

CASTE OUT

Number of Scheduled Castes (2001 Census): 16.7 crore

Percentage of total population: 16.2% the additional surgery

Total number of scavengers (untouchables): 7,70,338

Number of scavengers rehabilitated: 6,42,466

(

Source: Ministry of Social Justice and Empowerment

)

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Awakening of Debendranath to Brahmoism

2009-08-03T00:36:17Z

http://books.google.com/books?id=-5EeZaxc_T0C&pg=PA38

"Bourgeois Hinduism, or the faith of the modern Vedantists, by Brian Allison Hatcher"

One chapter of this book is available online - courtesy googlebooks.

Parents impose their belief system on children

2009-07-29T20:57:53Z

Dear all,

I just read one interesting article in Times of India, Bangalore, published yesterday (page-24).
Visit: http://epaper.timesofindia.com/

With best regards,
Debanjan Ray

=============
'Parents impose their belief system on children'

As president of the Indian chapter of the Centre for Inquiry, Innaiah Narisetti has come up with the controversial thesis that children's rights should include complete freedom from religious belief or conditioning. He spoke to Manoj Mitta:

Your latest book, Forced into Faith, has a rather provocative subtitle: 'How religion abuses children's rights.' How do you justify that?
Child marriages are prohibited. Voting rights are denied to kids. The same restraint is, however, not observed when it comes to stamping children into religion. Parents treat their children as propertyand imposetheir belief system. It's time parents refrained from indoctrinating their children into their religious beliefs so that they have the freedom to adopt or reject religion when they become adults. The conditioning they suffer in their childhood renders them incapable of exercising choice in the matter.

Why do you argue for a U N convention on what you describe as the religious abuse of children?
The UN convention on children's rights adopted in 1989 is observed more in the breach. Though the UN has come out against child abuses like genital mutilation of girls and deploying children in wars, it is shy of holding religion guilty of polluting the minds of children with retrograde beliefs. Children accept without question whatever the parents dictate. They carry that habit into their adulthood. Leaders practising superstitions set a bad example.
It was sad that somebody like Abdul Kalam, when he was president, thought it fit to touch the feet of Sathya Sai Baba. That to my mind was more outrageous than his being frisked at an airport for security reasons despite his former office.

Is a rationalist necessarily an atheist?
One need not declare that he or she is an atheist while thinking rationally. Scientific temper demands proof and evidence. The god proposition came from religious persons. The burden of proof lies with the proposer. If they fail to prove, the rationalists question the authenticity of the original proposal. All beliefs and superstitions about god are nice stories but there is no proof. All scientific rationality leads to atheism even if many do not actually opt for that word.

"Pseudo sciences" like vaastu, feng shui, astrology and tarot card reading seem to be growing in popularity. What explains the weakness for irrationality despite the growth in scientific knowledge?
The reinforcement of belief systems from early childhood is the root cause for the presentday behaviour. When we fail to reason, when we face emotional problems, our weaknesses lead us to depend on unknown, superstitious powers. Lack of selfreliance, and not tempering emotion with reason leads us to blind beliefs. That is why we get pulled into alternative unscientific systems and religious rituals.

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Sunanda K Datta-Ray: Marital law conundrums

2009-07-20T23:02:15Z

Sunanda K Datta-Ray / New Delhi September 02, 2006
http://www.business-standard.com/india/storypage.php?autono=254535

No matter what religious rites solemnise a marriage, it must be recorded by the state.

There's no reason why registration of matches, as of hatches and despatches, should not embrace the entire population without offending religious susceptibilities. As I write this, it occurs to me that I wouldn't be here if our lawmakers had not adjusted ancient usage to modern thought and jurisprudence. But for that feat my parents wouldn't have been able to marry at all. In the event, they had not one but three marriages.

Now, those lawmakers need to introduce a simple law saying that no matter what religious rites solemnise a marriage, it must be recorded by the government. That's not the same as a civil marriage, which orthodox Indians may dislike. It is simply that custom like guests who eat at a wedding feast being witnesses to the event should be buttressed by the state.

My parents first had a Brahmo religious ceremony because my mother's family belonged to the Brahmo Samaj. Then there was a Hindu religious ceremony because my father's family was Hindu. Neither being valid in those days for a union between Hindu and Brahmo, a civil marriage followed.

Controversy did not end there. My mother's parents had been married under Act III of 1873, which obliged both parties to deny they were Hindu, Muslim or Christian. My maternal grandparents had abjured Hinduism in the late 19th century and joined the reformist Brahmo Samaj. But Act III wouldn't do for my Hindu father. Luckily for him and me! there was another law at hand. A wise old legal owl by name of Sir Hari Singh Gour had amended the 1873 legislation in 1923 allowing two Hindus to register their union.

I think there was a little tussle even then about which law should be invoked. But since my father was adamant and my mother quite happy to describe herself as "Hindu (Brahmo Samaj)" the only term she could use, Brahmoism not being recognised as a separate religion the Gour Act prevailed.

Complexities still persisted. My grandmother's brother gave away my mother in the Brahmo ceremony. But he couldn't or wouldn't perform the same role in the Hindu marriage. So, a cousin of my mother's on her father's side whose branch hadn't converted to Brahmoism officiated as the Hindu kanya karta. Both men also witnessed the civil marriage.

Such conundrums persist. I remember two among close relatives in recent years.

Another Hindu-Brahmo wedding nearly came unstuck over the law under which it should be registered. The bride's father (Hindu) outwitted the boy's father (Brahmo) by filing for registration under the 1955 Hindu Marriage Act (Hindus only) and pleading it was too late to invoke the all-faiths Special Marriage Act of 1954. All that the fretting and fuming Brahmo parent could do was have a Brahmo blessing in his own home.

In the second instance, one spouse was Christian, the other Hindu. Failing to prevent the marriage, the Hindu spouse's father hit on a devious ploy. The wedding was preceded by a brief ceremony for the Christian spouse to be adopted by a Hindu, thereby acquiring the adoptive father's name, religion and gotra. An ordinary Hindu ceremony sufficed after that.

The precedent came from adoption as a way out of consanguinity. Sometimes the two sides are unaware till the wedding preliminaries that they share a gotra, meaning they had a common ancestor in some misty past. The solution is for one spouse to acquire a new gotra through adoption by, say, a maternal relative.

There's never a law in India that doesn't offer its own loopholes.

The most celebrated matrimonial controversy was over Aroon Sinha's claim to succeed Satyaprasanna Sinha as the second Baron Sinha of Raipur. The first Lord and Lady Sinha were Hindus to start with but converted to Brahmoism long after their marriage and the birth of their children. The House of Lords asked several questions since there were no marriage or birth certificates and, especially, since Satyaprasanna Sinha could legally have had many wives while a Hindu.

After prolonged hearings in London and Calcutta, the Lords decided on the basis of expert advice that Hindu converts to Brahmoism did not have to register marriages that had already been sanctified and consummated. Aroon Sinha's recognition as the rightful second baron saved from extinction the only hereditary peerage bestowed on a non-white.

There won't be another peerage to be determined but documentary evidence of marriage, birth and death saves problems all round. The example of Sri Lanka and Indian states that have introduced registration also demonstrate benefits for female empowerment. Registration checks bigamy, forced marriages and child marriage. It saves women from sexual exploitation, unfair divorce and property deprivation.

It is unfair to deny Muslim women these advantages. It's also ridiculous to argue that registration is incompatible with Islamic polygamy. There is no bearing either on the case for a common civil code. If the law allows a man four or more wives, let them all be officially recognised. Four registrations are better than none, unless the man regards some spouses as wives and others as concubines.

One Nation Under God or is it ??

2009-06-27T13:16:25Z

It seems like this great nation of ours is being torn limb to limb
and that it's getting worse with every passing day. How could
this be? Might this man claiming to be God's prophet for 20
years now, perhaps been telling us the truth all along?

A prophet must operate as God wills and it is a prophet's
responsibility to be an obedient servant and to show themselves
approved to God and man. I sure think this guy is God's true
prophet and one of the two witnesses. As someone who has
always sought for truth, this is as close as it gets for this here
believer.

He has nothing to gain except God's approval and perhaps yours

http://www.theamericannightmare.org/THE_SEVENTH_TRUMPET_GGG.html

Laura

Re: Work, Death, and Sickness , by, Leo Tolstoy

2009-06-05T22:03:37Z

Dear Debanjan,

The entire story centres around a Judeo-Christian concept of the anthromorphic "God" who created man (in his own image), and then abandoned him for sinning. It drags in the discredited concept of "Fatherhood of God" which runs counter to Brahmoism.

If anything this story proves the vassalisation of South Amercan Indians and obliteration of their own rich past which is richly detailed in this book.
http://transbooks.com/cata/lus02.html

I hope that today's Brahmos are as alert to the destruction of our own national religion and past (by these alien forces) as our Brahmic forefathers were.

Sarbajit

--- In brahmoconferenceorg@..., "Ray, Debanjan IN BLR SISL" <debanjan.ray@...> wrote:

>
> Dear all,
>
> You may enjoy an old story below.
>
> With best regards,
> Debanjan Ray
>
> Work, Death, and Sickness
>
> - by Leo Tolstoy, translated by Louise and Aylmer Maude
>
>
> THIS is a legend current among the South American Indians.
>
> God, say they, at first made men so that they had no need to work: they needed neither houses, nor clothes, nor food, and they all lived till they were a hundred, and did not know what illness was.
>
> When, after some time, God looked to see how people were living, he saw that instead of being happy in their life, they had quarrelled with one another, and, each caring for himself, had brought matters to such a pass that far from enjoying life, they cursed it.
>
> Then God said to himself: 'This comes of their living separately, each for himself.' And to change this state of things, God so arranged matters that it became impossible for people to live without working. To avoid suffering from cold and hunger, they were now obliged to build dwellings, and to dig the ground, and to grow and gather fruits and grain.
>
> 'Work will bring them together,' thought God.
>
> 'They cannot make their tools, prepare and transport their timber, build their houses, sow and gather their harvests, spin and weave, and make their clothes, each one alone by himself.'
>
> 'It will make them understand that the more heartily they work together, the more they will have and the better they will live; and this will unite them.'
>
> Time passed on, and again God came to see how men were living, and whether they were now happy.
>
> But he found them living worse than before. They worked together (that they could not help doing), but not all together, being broken up into little groups. And each group tried to snatch work from other groups, and they hindered one another, wasting time and strength in their struggles, so that things went ill with them all.
>
> Having seen that this, too, was not well, God decided so as to arrange things that man should not know the time of his death, but might die at any moment; and he announced this to them.
>
> 'Knowing that each of them may die at any moment,' thought God, 'they will not, by grasping at gains that may last so short a time, spoil the hours of life allotted to them.'
>
> But it turned out otherwise. When God returned to see how people were living, he saw that their life was as bad as ever.
>
> Those who were strongest, availing themselves of the fact that men might die at any time, subdued those who were weaker, killing some and threatening others with death. And it came about that the strongest and their descendants did no work, and suffered from the weariness of idleness, while those who were weaker had to work beyond their strength, and suffered from lack of rest. Each set of men feared and hated the other. And the life of man became yet more unhappy.
>
> Having seen all this, God, to mend matters, decided to make use of one last means; he sent all kinds of sickness among men. God thought that when all men were exposed to sickness they would understand that those who are well should have pity on those who are sick, and should help them, that when they themselves fall ill those who are well might in turn help them.
>
> And again God went away, but when He came back to see how men lived now that they were subject to sicknesses, he saw that their life was worse even than before. The very sickness that in God's purpose should have united men, had divided them more than ever. Those men who were strong enough to make others work, forced them also to wait on them in times of sickness; but they did not, in their turn, look after others who were ill. And those who were forced to work for others and to look after them when sick, were so worn with work that they had no time to look after their own sick, but left them without attendance. That the sight of sick folk might not disturb the pleasures of the wealthy, houses were arranged in which these poor people suffered and died, far from those whose sympathy might have cheered them, and in the arms of hired people who nursed them without compassion, or even with disgust.
>
> Moreover, people considered many of the illnesses infectious, and, fearing to catch them, not only avoided the sick, but even separated themselves from those who attended the sick.
>
> Then God said to Himself: 'If even this means will not bring men to understand wherein their happiness lies, let them be taught by suffering.' And God left men to themselves.
>
> And, left to themselves, men lived long before they understood that they all ought to, and might be, happy. Only in the very latest times have a few of them begun to understand that work ought not to be a bugbear to some and like galley-slavery for others, but should be a common and happy occupation, uniting all men. They have begun to understand that with death constantly threatening each of us, the only reasonable business of every man is to spend the years, months, hours, and minutes, allotted him -- in unity and love. They have begun to understand that sickness, far from dividing men, should, on the contrary, give opportunity for loving union with one another.
>
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> Important notice: This e-mail and any attachment there to contains corporate proprietary information. If you have received it by mistake, please notify us immediately by reply e-mail and delete this e-mail and its attachments from your system.
> Thank You.
>

Work, Death, and Sickness , by, Leo Tolstoy

2009-06-05T03:27:35Z

Dear all,

You may enjoy an old story below.

With best regards,
Debanjan Ray

Work, Death, and Sickness

- by Leo Tolstoy, translated by Louise and Aylmer Maude

THIS is a legend current among the South American Indians.

God, say they, at first made men so that they had no need to work: they needed neither houses, nor clothes, nor food, and they all lived till they were a hundred, and did not know what illness was.

When, after some time, God looked to see how people were living, he saw that instead of being happy in their life, they had quarrelled with one another, and, each caring for himself, had brought matters to such a pass that far from enjoying life, they cursed it.

Then God said to himself: 'This comes of their living separately, each for himself.' And to change this state of things, God so arranged matters that it became impossible for people to live without working. To avoid suffering from cold and hunger, they were now obliged to build dwellings, and to dig the ground, and to grow and gather fruits and grain.

'Work will bring them together,' thought God.

'They cannot make their tools, prepare and transport their timber, build their houses, sow and gather their harvests, spin and weave, and make their clothes, each one alone by himself.'

'It will make them understand that the more heartily they work together, the more they will have and the better they will live; and this will unite them.'

Time passed on, and again God came to see how men were living, and whether they were now happy.

But he found them living worse than before. They worked together (that they could not help doing), but not all together, being broken up into little groups. And each group tried to snatch work from other groups, and they hindered one another, wasting time and strength in their struggles, so that things went ill with them all.

Having seen that this, too, was not well, God decided so as to arrange things that man should not know the time of his death, but might die at any moment; and he announced this to them.

'Knowing that each of them may die at any moment,' thought God, 'they will not, by grasping at gains that may last so short a time, spoil the hours of life allotted to them.'

But it turned out otherwise. When God returned to see how people were living, he saw that their life was as bad as ever.

Those who were strongest, availing themselves of the fact that men might die at any time, subdued those who were weaker, killing some and threatening others with death. And it came about that the strongest and their descendants did no work, and suffered from the weariness of idleness, while those who were weaker had to work beyond their strength, and suffered from lack of rest. Each set of men feared and hated the other. And the life of man became yet more unhappy.

Having seen all this, God, to mend matters, decided to make use of one last means; he sent all kinds of sickness among men. God thought that when all men were exposed to sickness they would understand that those who are well should have pity on those who are sick, and should help them, that when they themselves fall ill those who are well might in turn help them.

And again God went away, but when He came back to see how men lived now that they were subject to sicknesses, he saw that their life was worse even than before. The very sickness that in God's purpose should have united men, had divided them more than ever. Those men who were strong enough to make others work, forced them also to wait on them in times of sickness; but they did not, in their turn, look after others who were ill. And those who were forced to work for others and to look after them when sick, were so worn with work that they had no time to look after their own sick, but left them without attendance. That the sight of sick folk might not disturb the pleasures of the wealthy, houses were arranged in which these poor people suffered and died, far from those whose sympathy might have cheered them, and in the arms of hired people who nursed them without compassion, or even with disgust.

Moreover, people considered many of the illnesses infectious, and, fearing to catch them, not only avoided the sick, but even separated themselves from those who attended the sick.

Then God said to Himself: 'If even this means will not bring men to understand wherein their happiness lies, let them be taught by suffering.' And God left men to themselves.

And, left to themselves, men lived long before they understood that they all ought to, and might be, happy. Only in the very latest times have a few of them begun to understand that work ought not to be a bugbear to some and like galley-slavery for others, but should be a common and happy occupation, uniting all men. They have begun to understand that with death constantly threatening each of us, the only reasonable business of every man is to spend the years, months, hours, and minutes, allotted him -- in unity and love. They have begun to understand that sickness, far from dividing men, should, on the contrary, give opportunity for loving union with one another.

________________________________
Important notice: This e-mail and any attachment there to contains corporate proprietary information. If you have received it by mistake, please notify us immediately by reply e-mail and delete this e-mail and its attachments from your system.
Thank You.

Scientific Temper of Brahmo leaders

2009-05-24T12:59:43Z

A scholarly paper on scientific research in the period from 180-1950,
sponsored by the Indian National Science Academy, was published in the
Indian Journal of History of Science, 24( 1 ) : 8—66 (1989. Not surprisingly
we find that it starts with Rammohun Roy to say he

"was the pioneer to introduce scientific approachfor a proper evaluation of
socio-religious conditions through observation ofnatural phenomena. A little
known Persian pamphlet—the Tuhafalul Mawahiddinor Gift to Deist—published in
1803-04 was the gateway of the age of reason inIndia in the 19th century.'
Rammohun believed that any individual could realisethe existence of the
Supreme Being "without instruction and guidance of any onesimply by keen
insight into, and deep observation of, the mysteries of nature suchas
different modes of life fixed for different kinds of animals and vegetables,
andthe propagation of their species, and the rules of the movement of
planets andstars..." Rammohun strongly asserted that nothing was miracle ;
there must be acause and effect relation behind any phenomena however
wonderful, and,moreover, anything proved by knowledge gathered by external
senses, whichunder certain conditions gave positive knowledge was more
acceptable. Thus long before August Comte, Rammohun conceived positive
knowledge, and,applied scientific logic to examine the prevalent religious
practices to conclude that *falsehood was common to all religions*"
Prassana Coomar Tagore is mentioned for his work on mensuration
Bhümipariman.

We then find references to the next great Brahmo leader Hemendranath Thakur
to find that in addition to his many books on science such as *Präkrtik
Vijñáner Sthülamarma, *1879, on Physics he had previously also published 4
articles in 1873 on Chemistry

Rasáyana Vijñáne Jader Laksana Vol.19, No.892, 1839 Saka, p. 198,
Rasäyana Vijñáne Paramänur Äkrti Vol. 19, No.893, 1839 Saka, p.240,
Rasäyana Äkarsana Vol.20, No.923, 1842 Saka, p.69, and
Rasäyana Äkarsana TäpOTadit Vol.20, 1842 Saka, p. 127.

It appears that Hemendranath summarised Dalton's concept of atom *(paramänu)
*
in describing the structure of matter. Atom was then the ultimate limit of
divisibility.
The properties of matter were rooted in the properties of atom. Another
property
of matter was its stretch or expansion by occupation of space to obtain a
shape.
The space was reflected in shape but the shape was also a reflection of
atom.
Ingredients might combine without any proportion to each other in course of
molecular attraction *(yogäkarsana), *but in case of chemical combination,
they must have a definite proportion when a new material was created.

The next references are to other well known Brahmos
Prabhat Kumar Roy Choudhury and his cousin
Kshirode Chandra Roy Choudhury.

"A. *Theory of Evolution : *
*(1) Vibartanaväd by Kshirode Chandra Roy Chowdhuri*
*Vol.2, No.l,Vaisakha 1291 BS, 1884 AD, p.1-10. *
*In this article the author discussed the formulations of scientists*
*like Charles Robert Darwin (1809-1882), Henry Charlton Bastian
(1837-1915), etc*
*about the theory of evolution of living beings and nonliving things using
some examples.*

*(2) Mänabajanma by the same author Vol.2, No.5, Bhidra 1291 BS, 1884 AD, p.
193-200.*
*The author compared human beings with other animals and tried to establish a
chronology"*

Kshirode Chandra Roy Chowdhuri was excommunicated from the Sabarna Roy
Chowdhury
family for joining the Brahmo Samaj, suffering great privation before
finally becoming Principal
of the Ravenshaw College of Cuttack (Orissa)

J.C.

Re: X'mas Greetings

2009-05-24T11:53:45Z

Mr Basu is confused bewteen the 2 Yahoo Brahmo groups and their
membership policies.

The "brahmoconferenceorg" ("anusthanic True Brahmo") Yahoo group
requires no information for joining and there is no 'policing' here.

The "brahmoconference" Yahoo group has the family history form to fill
in (lots of inbreeding here) and is notorious for expelling the
incompatible types.

That probably also explains why there are 8 million+ True Brahmos but
only 1,249 False ones. True Brahmos are not a "small community" at
all.

In Truth
Saurav

Re: [brahmoconferenceorg] Re: X'mas Greetings

Mr. Basu:
The Brahmo community is a small one even if one includes, in addition
to practicing Brahmos, persons such as yourself who may have an
interest in Brahmoism because of family connections and not because I
am myself a practicing Brahmo. I was asked for similar information
when I requested admission to the group and I freely provided the
requested information. No one quizzed me or cross-questioned me about
the information I provided. Any online group has an interest in
'policing' its membership/audience and the group's efforts in this
connection were reasonable in my view. I have found the debates of the
group highly educational and enlightening and helped my to put a lot
of my family history in perspective even when I do not necessarily
agree with or care for the views expressed. I would urge you to
provide the information requested and to try out the group before
deciding to opt out. If you object to an information request, you
might want to indicate the nature of the objection and let the
moderators handle the matter. But I do think you will find the group
of interest if you join.
That said, I would suggest to the group that the information request
be reframed in a manner that elicits the information sought while
avoiding any possibility of personal offense to anyone. I would phrase
the information request alone the following lines: 'please include
detailed information about your interest in Brahmoism including
personal adherence, family connections, academic interest or any other
to facilite the moderator's determination of your request.' Where the
information provided is inadequate or appears to be other than
genuine, the moderators can then seek additional information.
Bikash Roy

Re: Re: X'mas Greetings

2009-05-24T10:51:53Z

Mr. Basu:
The Brahmo community is a small one even if one includes, in addition to
practicing Brahmos, persons such as yourself who may have an interest in
Brahmoism because of family connections and not because I am myself a
practicing Brahmo. I was asked for similar information when I requested
admission to the group and I freely provided the requested information. No
one quizzed me or cross-questioned me about the information I provided. Any
online group has an interest in 'policing' its membership/audience and the
group's efforts in this connection were reasonable in my view. I have found
the debates of the group highly educational and enlightening and helped my
to put a lot of my family history in perspective even when I do not
necessarily agree with or care for the views expressed. I would urge you to
provide the information requested and to try out the group before deciding
to opt out. If you object to an information request, you might want to
indicate the nature of the objection and let the moderators handle the
matter. But I do think you will find the group of interest if you join.
That said, I would suggest to the group that the information request be
reframed in a manner that elicits the information sought while avoiding any
possibility of personal offense to anyone. I would phrase the information
request alone the following lines: 'please include detailed information
about your interest in Brahmoism including personal adherence, family
connections, academic interest or any other to facilite the moderator's
determination of your request.' Where the information provided is inadequate
or appears to be other than genuine, the moderators can then seek additional
information.
Bikash Roy

On Sun, May 24, 2009 at 12:20 PM, Shymal Dutta <shymal.dutta@...>wrote:

>
>
> Dear Sir,
>
> My name is Shymal DUTTA Basu. I am not a practiceing Brahmo and had joined
> this group because my late grandmother was Brahmika before marriage and I
> want to learn about Brahmo Samaj..
>
> Please remove me from the group because I have now decided to go as far
> from Brahmo Samaj as I can. This is the only religion group
> where people are asked for complete family history and "identity proof" to
> join.
>
> *>>Dear Mr. Shyamal Dutta,*
> *>>Thanks a lot for showing interest to join this brahmoconference group.*
> *>>Since, this is a moderated group, we would like to have a small due
> diligence before we include you in this >>group. Could you pl. answer
> following questions?*
> *>>1) How did you come to know about the existence of this group?
> >>2) Do you know any existing member of this group? Or, any prominent
> Brahmo whom you know?
> >>3) Are you Brahmo by birth (does anyone of your parents is Brahmo?)?
> >>4) Could you give a little bit background about yourself?
> >>5) Could you pl. send me some proof of identity ?*
> *>>
> >>With best regards,
> >>Debanjan Ray*
>
> Shymal Dutta Basu
> (Dept of Sociology)
> University of California at Merced
>
> On Sun, May 24, 2009 at 5:57 PM, Rahul Dev Sharma <
> rahul.dvsharma@...> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Dear Sarbajit
>>
>> I was waiting for someone (other than I) to reply to your query.
>>
>> The Anusthanic Brahmo movement frowns upon seeking donations in the
>> name of our religion. We base this upon the 1830 Trust Deed text which
>> forbids "oblations" and offerings to be collected within.
>>
>> The Ananusthanics on the other hand are charlatans soliciting funds at
>> every stage. There can be no better example than this of "Pandit"
>> Sitanath Tattwabhushan who in 1880 was one of the 8 Brahmos of Sylhet
>> who issued the provlamation denouncing Keshab Sen and Navabidhan. (see
>> Sivnath Sastri's History of the Brahmo Samaj"). Tattwabhushan (whose
>> real name was Sitanath Dutta) then tried to insert a pseudo-Brahmanism
>> into the Sadharan Brahmo Samaj by publishing in 1921 his "Manual of
>> Brahmic prayer and devotions" which exhorts the Sadharan adherents at
>> every stage to "donate" to the Brahmo Samaj. Got married ? - donate,
>> Recovered from illness ? - donate, Setting up a new Samaj ? - donate.
>>
>> Although Tattwabhushan (Dutta) claimed to have compiled his devotional
>> manual from 4 sources - 2 Hindu podhattis, the Adi Samaj Anusthan
>> Paddati and the Navabidhan 'New Samhita', we find that such out and
>> out commercial practices are only in the Navabidhan Samhita followed
>> by one faction of Sadharan Samaj.
>>
>> Dutta's manual was roundly denounced in 1921 when it was first
>> published and no sensible person would rely on it today except as an
>> awkward anachronism.
>>
>> All right thinking Brahmos should be careful of these Dutta's in
>> Brahmoism, ie Sitanath (Tattwabhushan) Dutta, Narendra (Vivekanand)
>> Dutta etc and their descendants who have always been counted amongst
>> the enemies of True Brahmoism for trying to commercialise Brahmoism
>> into a Ramakrishna "Mission" model at every step.
>>
>> Rahul
>>
>> On 3/31/09, sroy1947 <sroy1947@... <sroy1947%40yahoo.com>> wrote:
>> > "Peddling" ??? This raises an interesting issue - "Does Brahmoism permit
>> > donations to be collected within Samaj premises?"
>> >
>> > "and that no sacrifice, offering or oblation of any kind or thing, shall
>> > ever be permitted therein;"
>> >
>> > Sarbajit
>> >
>> > --- In brahmoconferenceorg@...<brahmoconferenceorg%40yahoogroups.com>,
>> Rahul Dev Sharma
>> > <rahul.dvsharma@...> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Brahmoism is a religious system, Brahmo Samajes are societies which
>> >> peddle a diluted (universally palatable) version of True Brahmoism.
>> >> What is peddled at Brahmo Samajes is more often than not unacceptable
>> >> to Brahmos.
>> >>
>> >> I think you are confusing nationalism with patriotism.
>> >>
>> >> On Sat, Mar 14, 2009 at 5:23 PM, biswajit dutta
>> >> <bis_dutta2000@...> wrote:
>> >> > It appears that you make an artificial distinction between Brahmo
>> Samaj
>> >> > &
>> >> > Brahmoism . I am afraid your views may not resonate with the majority
>> >> > for
>> >> > whom :-
>> >> > a)Brahmo Samaj & Brahmoism are not at cross purposes .
>> >> > b)The terms "universalism" & "nationalism" may not be mutually
>> exclusive
>> >> > .
>> >> > That I have a tolerant/open/rational mind willing to imbibe global
>> best
>> >> > practices does not mean I am anti-national or less nationalistic . On
>> >> > the
>> >> > contrary , universalism can lead to improved nationalism .
>> >> > c)By distillation of essence(accepting only what is
>> suitable/relevant)
>> >> > from
>> >> > other religions Brahmoism has become a better religion . There is no
>> >> > harm in
>> >> > assimilating the good or the great from others .
>> >> > d)Sivanath Sastri's interpretation of Brahmo history finds wide
>> >> > acceptablity
>> >> > with most Brahmos .
>> >> > e)I don't know by what yardstick , Sadharan Samajis can be regarded
>> to
>> >> > be
>> >> > the basest of Brahmos ? This appears to be too sweeping a statement .
>> >> >
>> >> > Biswajit Dutta
>> >> >
>> >> > --- On Sat, 14/3/09, Rahul Dev Sharma <rahul.dvsharma@...> wrote:
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Shymal Dutta Basu
> (Dept of Sociology)
> University of California at Merced
>
>
>

--
Bikash Roy, JD (UC Davis), PhD (Rutgers GSNB)
Attorney licensed in North Carolina, New York, New Jersey
610 Walcott Way, Cary, NC 27519
Cell # 919 215 8626
Landline # 919 650 3651

Re: Re: X'mas Greetings

2009-05-24T09:20:43Z

Dear Sir,

My name is Shymal DUTTA Basu. I am not a practiceing Brahmo and had joined
this group because my late grandmother was Brahmika before marriage and I
want to learn about Brahmo Samaj..

Please remove me from the group because I have now decided to go as far from
Brahmo Samaj as I can. This is the only religion group
where people are asked for complete family history and "identity proof" to
join.

*>>Dear Mr. Shyamal Dutta,*
*>>Thanks a lot for showing interest to join this brahmoconference group.*
*>>Since, this is a moderated group, we would like to have a small due
diligence before we include you in this >>group. Could you pl. answer
following questions?*
*>>1) How did you come to know about the existence of this group?
>>2) Do you know any existing member of this group? Or, any prominent Brahmo
whom you know?
>>3) Are you Brahmo by birth (does anyone of your parents is Brahmo?)?
>>4) Could you give a little bit background about yourself?
>>5) Could you pl. send me some proof of identity ?*
*>>
>>With best regards,
>>Debanjan Ray*

Shymal Dutta Basu
(Dept of Sociology)
University of California at Merced

On Sun, May 24, 2009 at 5:57 PM, Rahul Dev Sharma
<rahul.dvsharma@...>wrote:

>
>
> Dear Sarbajit
>
> I was waiting for someone (other than I) to reply to your query.
>
> The Anusthanic Brahmo movement frowns upon seeking donations in the
> name of our religion. We base this upon the 1830 Trust Deed text which
> forbids "oblations" and offerings to be collected within.
>
> The Ananusthanics on the other hand are charlatans soliciting funds at
> every stage. There can be no better example than this of "Pandit"
> Sitanath Tattwabhushan who in 1880 was one of the 8 Brahmos of Sylhet
> who issued the provlamation denouncing Keshab Sen and Navabidhan. (see
> Sivnath Sastri's History of the Brahmo Samaj"). Tattwabhushan (whose
> real name was Sitanath Dutta) then tried to insert a pseudo-Brahmanism
> into the Sadharan Brahmo Samaj by publishing in 1921 his "Manual of
> Brahmic prayer and devotions" which exhorts the Sadharan adherents at
> every stage to "donate" to the Brahmo Samaj. Got married ? - donate,
> Recovered from illness ? - donate, Setting up a new Samaj ? - donate.
>
> Although Tattwabhushan (Dutta) claimed to have compiled his devotional
> manual from 4 sources - 2 Hindu podhattis, the Adi Samaj Anusthan
> Paddati and the Navabidhan 'New Samhita', we find that such out and
> out commercial practices are only in the Navabidhan Samhita followed
> by one faction of Sadharan Samaj.
>
> Dutta's manual was roundly denounced in 1921 when it was first
> published and no sensible person would rely on it today except as an
> awkward anachronism.
>
> All right thinking Brahmos should be careful of these Dutta's in
> Brahmoism, ie Sitanath (Tattwabhushan) Dutta, Narendra (Vivekanand)
> Dutta etc and their descendants who have always been counted amongst
> the enemies of True Brahmoism for trying to commercialise Brahmoism
> into a Ramakrishna "Mission" model at every step.
>
> Rahul
>
> On 3/31/09, sroy1947 <sroy1947@... <sroy1947%40yahoo.com>> wrote:
> > "Peddling" ??? This raises an interesting issue - "Does Brahmoism permit
> > donations to be collected within Samaj premises?"
> >
> > "and that no sacrifice, offering or oblation of any kind or thing, shall
> > ever be permitted therein;"
> >
> > Sarbajit
> >
> > --- In brahmoconferenceorg@...<brahmoconferenceorg%40yahoogroups.com>,
> Rahul Dev Sharma
> > <rahul.dvsharma@...> wrote:
> >>
> >> Brahmoism is a religious system, Brahmo Samajes are societies which
> >> peddle a diluted (universally palatable) version of True Brahmoism.
> >> What is peddled at Brahmo Samajes is more often than not unacceptable
> >> to Brahmos.
> >>
> >> I think you are confusing nationalism with patriotism.
> >>
> >> On Sat, Mar 14, 2009 at 5:23 PM, biswajit dutta
> >> <bis_dutta2000@...> wrote:
> >> > It appears that you make an artificial distinction between Brahmo
> Samaj
> >> > &
> >> > Brahmoism . I am afraid your views may not resonate with the majority
> >> > for
> >> > whom :-
> >> > a)Brahmo Samaj & Brahmoism are not at cross purposes .
> >> > b)The terms "universalism" & "nationalism" may not be mutually
> exclusive
> >> > .
> >> > That I have a tolerant/open/rational mind willing to imbibe global
> best
> >> > practices does not mean I am anti-national or less nationalistic . On
> >> > the
> >> > contrary , universalism can lead to improved nationalism .
> >> > c)By distillation of essence(accepting only what is suitable/relevant)
> >> > from
> >> > other religions Brahmoism has become a better religion . There is no
> >> > harm in
> >> > assimilating the good or the great from others .
> >> > d)Sivanath Sastri's interpretation of Brahmo history finds wide
> >> > acceptablity
> >> > with most Brahmos .
> >> > e)I don't know by what yardstick , Sadharan Samajis can be regarded to
> >> > be
> >> > the basest of Brahmos ? This appears to be too sweeping a statement .
> >> >
> >> > Biswajit Dutta
> >> >
> >> > --- On Sat, 14/3/09, Rahul Dev Sharma <rahul.dvsharma@...> wrote:
> >> >
> >>
> >
> >
> >
>
>

--
Shymal Dutta Basu
(Dept of Sociology)
University of California at Merced

Re: Re: X'mas Greetings

2009-05-24T05:27:24Z

Dear Sarbajit

I was waiting for someone (other than I) to reply to your query.

The Anusthanic Brahmo movement frowns upon seeking donations in the
name of our religion. We base this upon the 1830 Trust Deed text which
forbids "oblations" and offerings to be collected within.

The Ananusthanics on the other hand are charlatans soliciting funds at
every stage. There can be no better example than this of "Pandit"
Sitanath Tattwabhushan who in 1880 was one of the 8 Brahmos of Sylhet
who issued the provlamation denouncing Keshab Sen and Navabidhan. (see
Sivnath Sastri's History of the Brahmo Samaj"). Tattwabhushan (whose
real name was Sitanath Dutta) then tried to insert a pseudo-Brahmanism
into the Sadharan Brahmo Samaj by publishing in 1921 his "Manual of
Brahmic prayer and devotions" which exhorts the Sadharan adherents at
every stage to "donate" to the Brahmo Samaj. Got married ? - donate,
Recovered from illness ? - donate, Setting up a new Samaj ? - donate.

Although Tattwabhushan (Dutta) claimed to have compiled his devotional
manual from 4 sources - 2 Hindu podhattis, the Adi Samaj Anusthan
Paddati and the Navabidhan 'New Samhita', we find that such out and
out commercial practices are only in the Navabidhan Samhita followed
by one faction of Sadharan Samaj.

Dutta's manual was roundly denounced in 1921 when it was first
published and no sensible person would rely on it today except as an
awkward anachronism.

All right thinking Brahmos should be careful of these Dutta's in
Brahmoism, ie Sitanath (Tattwabhushan) Dutta, Narendra (Vivekanand)
Dutta etc and their descendants who have always been counted amongst
the enemies of True Brahmoism for trying to commercialise Brahmoism
into a Ramakrishna "Mission" model at every step.

Rahul

On 3/31/09, sroy1947 <sroy1947@...> wrote:

> "Peddling" ??? This raises an interesting issue - "Does Brahmoism permit
> donations to be collected within Samaj premises?"
>
> "and that no sacrifice, offering or oblation of any kind or thing, shall
> ever be permitted therein;"
>
> Sarbajit
>
> --- In brahmoconferenceorg@..., Rahul Dev Sharma
> <rahul.dvsharma@...> wrote:
>>
>> Brahmoism is a religious system, Brahmo Samajes are societies which
>> peddle a diluted (universally palatable) version of True Brahmoism.
>> What is peddled at Brahmo Samajes is more often than not unacceptable
>> to Brahmos.
>>
>> I think you are confusing nationalism with patriotism.
>>
>> On Sat, Mar 14, 2009 at 5:23 PM, biswajit dutta
>> <bis_dutta2000@...> wrote:
>> > It appears that you make an artificial distinction between Brahmo Samaj
>> > &
>> > Brahmoism . I am afraid your views may not resonate with the majority
>> > for
>> > whom :-
>> > a)Brahmo Samaj & Brahmoism are not at cross purposes .
>> > b)The terms "universalism" & "nationalism" may not be mutually exclusive
>> > .
>> > That I have a tolerant/open/rational mind willing to imbibe global best
>> > practices does not mean I am anti-national or less nationalistic . On
>> > the
>> > contrary , universalism can lead to improved nationalism .
>> > c)By distillation of essence(accepting only what is suitable/relevant)
>> > from
>> > other religions Brahmoism has become a better religion . There is no
>> > harm in
>> > assimilating the good or the great from others .
>> > d)Sivanath Sastri's interpretation of Brahmo history finds wide
>> > acceptablity
>> > with most Brahmos .
>> > e)I don't know by what yardstick , Sadharan Samajis can be regarded to
>> > be
>> > the basest of Brahmos ? This appears to be too sweeping a statement .
>> >
>> > Biswajit Dutta
>> >
>> > --- On Sat, 14/3/09, Rahul Dev Sharma <rahul.dvsharma@...> wrote:
>> >
>>
>
>
>

Re: "The Brahmo Samaj and the shaping of the modern Indian mind" by David Kopf

2009-05-18T03:35:06Z

Kind attn: Mr Sarbajit Ray,

Many thanks for posting this reference. I was badly wanting to read this
book since long and was fascinated by the formation of Brahmo Samaj.

Google has scanned most of the book online except for the chapters
on Keshab Sen which are deleted.

Shymal Dutta

--- In brahmoconferenceorg@..., "sroy1947" <sroy1947@...> wrote:
>
> The Brahmo Samaj and the shaping of the modern Indian mind By David Kopf
>
> For people seriously interested in a Westerner's perspective on
Brahmoism's development, this entertaining (if sometimes wildly inaccurate)
book is available online couresy google. (A limited preview).
>
> As the author acknowledges at the end, his book was mainly based on the
Sophia Dobsot Collet section of the Sadharan Brahmo Samaj library (and grew
out of his attendance of the Sammilan Samaj's Brahmo Conference at
Hazaribagh in 1971).
>
> Kopf also concludes (in 1979) that Brahmoism's biggest enemy would be
Marxism.

>
> http://books.google.co.in/books?id=IUcY_IRKDHQC
>
> The Brahmo Samaj and the shaping of the modern Indian mind
> By David Kopf
> Edition: illustrated
> Published by Atlantic Publishers & Distri, 1979
> ISBN 0691031258, 9780691031255
> 399 pages
>

Re: Re: Rituals and superstition rule

2009-05-18T02:22:12Z

Dear Mr Roy,

You have overlooked a key phraase in the SB Samaj diksha

">> Acharya: What is salvation?
>> Initiate: Salvation consists on the one hand in freedom from sin in
>> words, thoughts and deeds; and on the other hand in union with God in
>> wisdom, love and holiness. Man will ever approach, God in wisdom, love
>> and holiness. but will never merge his self in the Universal Soul."

Man (as per the Sadharanites) will "approach God" but never merge with him.
This corresponds to Judeo-Christian-Islamic beliefs that Man is a
fallen creature
forever cast out from God's kingdom due to original "sin".

In Truth
Saurav

On 5/17/09, sroy1947 <sroy1947@...> wrote:

> So as I understand it now, Brahmoism holds:-
>
> 1) Every Being is a "part" authored by "God"
>
> 2) The notion of "soul" is a Christian concept inserted to bring alien
> notions like "sin", "salvation", "Heaven", "Hell", "Fatherhood of God" etc
> into the Brahmo space and to confuse and ensnare our adherents to
> Christianity (or worse).
>
> 3) That once we remove the entire alien notions of "soul", a "limited" God
> etc. from the Sadharan catechism / dikha we end up with
>
> a) I believe in God as the One - Author and Preserver of Existence.
> b) I believe that God manifests himself directly to Being and
> that there are no mediators between God and Being in the shape of
> prophets or scriptures.
> c) I honour and accept all religious teachers and books so far as they are
> in harmony with direct revelation of God to Being.
> d) I resolve to worship God daily and to practise holiness at all times
> anywhere.
> e) I abjure caste and idolatry, and resolve to perform all domestic
> observances according to the principles of the Brahmo Samaj. May God
> help me in being faithful to the vow I take today.
>
> Which, or something on these lines, should be acceptable to most Brahmos,
> notwithstanding the fact that such blandness utterly fails to convey why
> Brahmoism is UNIQUE. On second thoughts though, I will stick to the original
> version (partially available on http://brahmosamaj.org ) and not go with
> these remixes.
>
> Sarbajit Roy
>
> --- In brahmoconferenceorg@..., Rahul Dev Sharma
> <rahul.dvsharma@...> wrote:
>>
>> Dear sarbajit
>>
>> I could not care to comment on the dogma of the Sadharan Brahma Samaj.
>> As we know, the primary division between Brahmas today is of
>> 'anusthanic' Brahmas
>> and 'ananusthanic" Brahmas.
>>
>> In the former category fall Adi Brahmos, AdiDharmaites and many
>> Sadharan Brahmos,
>> who collectively follow the Brahmic Trust Principles of 1830 and 1861
>> anusthan.
>> The notion of 'soul' is anathema to such Brahmos, being ruled out by
>> the 1861 anusthan
>> and is properly termed as "Being" (life). Every "unmortal" Being is a
>> part of God (Singularity, the Author
>> and Preserver of Existence) which is sent out for a mission on
>> completion of which it
>> reintegrates with "God".
>>
>> "Being is created from Singularity. Being is renewed to Singularity.
>> Being exists to be one again with Loving Singularity."
>>
>> Ananusthanic Brahmos on the other hand have a diferent notion of an
>> "immortal" soul being eternally progressive towards God for its
>> doings. This implies a karmic and fatalistic belief which is contrary
>> to rational Brahmoism. In the 'diksha' (initiation) given to such
>> followers they are quizzed on a catechism first compiled by Pandit
>> Sitanath Tattwabhushan around 1920 from Hemendranath's 1861 original
>> anusthan.
>>
>> Acharya: What is your idea of the human soul?
>> Initiate: The human soul is capable of infinite progression to God for
>> its doings.
>>
>> Acharya: What is your conception of Heaven and Hell?
>> Initiate: I do not believe that there are distinct regions as Heaven
>> and Hell. These correspond to spiritual conditions of individual
>> souls. When God reveals himself in our soul and divine bliss is
>> realised. I call this state Heaven; when the heart is vitiated with
>> evil thoughts I call this state Hell. God rewards virtue and punishes
>> sin. His punishments are remedial and not eternal.
>>
>> Acharya: What is salvation?
>> Initiate: Salvation consists on the one hand in freedom from sin in
>> words, thoughts and deeds; and on the other hand in union with God in
>> wisdom, love and holiness. Man will ever approach, God in wisdom, love
>> and holiness. but will never merge his self in the Universal Soul.
>>
>> Acharya: Then swear your faith in the principles of Brahmoism.
>> Initate:
>> I believe in God as the one only Creator and Sustainer of the world. I
>> believe him to be infinite in power, wisdom, love and holiness.
>> I believe the human soul to be immortal and eternally progressive.
>> I believe that God manifests himself directly to the soul of man and
>> that there are no mediators between God and the soul in the shape of
>> prephets or scriptures.
>> I honour and accept all religious teachers and books so far as they
>> are in harmony with direct revelation of God in the soul.
>> I resolve to worship God daily and to practise holiness with all my
>> heart and soul.
>> I abjure caste and idolatry, and resolve to perform all domestic
>> ceremonies according to the principles of the Brahmo Samaj. May God
>> help me in being faithful to the vow I take today.
>>
>> Anyone who compares the complete articles of faith from the 1861
>> anusthan (which you have published on the website) with this corrupted
>> and Christianised version of the ananusthanics, will see how far these
>> "Brahmos" have deviated from True Brahmoism in order to Christianise
>> our creed.
>>
>> Rahul
>>
>> On Sat, May 16, 2009 at 6:50 PM, sroy1947 <sroy1947@...> wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> > Dear Rahul,
>> >
>> > 1) The "articles of faith" on wikipedia were lifted from a website I
>> > currently own "http://brahmosamaj.org". The text is from well researched
>> > and
>> > authentic sources (which I am sure you would acknowledge - privately if
>> > not
>> > publicly).
>> >
>> > 2) Biswajit Dutta. as I understand, is nominally a Sadharanite. Another
>> > Brahmo website I currently own "http://sadharanbrahmosamaj.org" has this
>> > to
>> > put forward as Sadharan dogma on reason / rationality which is being
>> > debated.
>> >
>> > "We regard the culture of faith at the sacrifice of reason, or the
>> > culture
>> > of reason at the sacrifice of faith as equally defective, and as
>> > fruitful
>> > sources of evil in the religious world;"
>> >
>> > 3) Yet another Sadharan Brahmo Samaj "dogma" goes as follows
>> > "We regard the worship of one God as the highest of a Brahmo's duties
>> > and as
>> > the best of means to improve the soul and the neglect of it as a way to
>> > spiritual death."
>> >
>> > You Rahul, may care to defend your side's position on "soul" [or its
>> > purported lack] in Brahmoism.
>> >
>> > Sarbajit Roy
>> > New Delhi
>> >
>> > --- In brahmoconferenceorg@..., Rahul Dev Sharma
>> > <rahul.dvsharma@> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Dear Mr Biswajit
>> >>
>> >> 'Ad homimem' attacks are what trivialise the real issues. I am glad
>> >> that we at least agree that superstition, mumbo-jumbo, dogma and
>> >> non-reason etc are opposed to Brahmoism. But how many others here (so
>> >> called Brahmos), would agree with you or me ?
>> >>
>> >> The current articles of faith for "True Brahmos" being very well
>> >> defined, you may clarify if you reject / disagree with any of them, as
>> >> only then can our debate proceed:-
>> >> (source : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brahmo_religion )
>> >>
>> >> * Brahmos embrace righteousness as the only way of life.
>> >> * Brahmos embrace truth, knowledge, reason, free will and virtuous
>> >> intuition (observation) as guides.
>> >> * Brahmos embrace secular principles but oppose sectarianism and
>> >> imposition of religious belief into governance (especially propagation
>> >> of religious belief by government).
>> >> * Brahmos embrace the co-existence of Brahmo principles with
>> >> governance, but oppose all governance in conflict with Brahmo
>> >> principles.
>> >> * Brahmos reject narrow theism (especially polytheism), idolatry and
>> >> symbolism.
>> >> * Brahmos reject the need for formal rituals, priests or places
>> >> (church, temple, mosque) for worship.
>> >> * Brahmos reject dogma and superstition.
>> >> * Brahmos reject scripture as authority.
>> >> * Brahmos reject revelations, prophets, gurus, messiahs, or avatars as
>> >> authority.
>> >> * Brahmos reject bigotry and irrational distinctions like caste,
>> >> creed, colour, race, religion which divide beings.
>> >> * Brahmos reject all forms of totalitarianism.
>> >> * Brahmos examine the prevalent notion of "sin".
>> >> * Brahmos examine the prevalent notions of "heaven" or "hell".
>> >> * Brahmos examine the prevalent notion of "salvation".
>> >>
>> >> ( Adherence to these articles are required only of Adi Brahmos or such
>> >> Sadharan Brahmos who accept Adi-ism ie. Trust deed of Brahmo Sabha
>> >> 1830 as the source of their faith or Trust deed of Sadharan Brahmo
>> >> Samaj 1880)
>> >>
>> >> We may also consider that no matter how much we may disagree with
>> >> others and their irrational (to us) beliefs, Brahmoism does not permit
>> >> us to disparage them / their beliefs publicly.
>> >>
>> >> Finally, concerning the issues which nobody wishes to rake up, it is
>> >> precisely because nobody wishes to discuss them that they must be
>> >> exposed publicly in dedicated groups such as this, and knowledgeable
>> >> people like you must participate.
>> >>
>> >> Rahul
>> >>
>> >> On Sat, May 16, 2009 at 3:47 PM, biswajit dutta
>> >> <bis_dutta2000@> wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > Dear Mr. Rahul Dev Sharma ,
>> >> > The messages you trying to trivialize are very germane to Brahmoism
>> >> > :-
>> >> > a)Brahmoism is all about logic, rationality & scientific mindedness .
>> >> > It
>> >> > denounces all social evils including Sati which is still very
>> >> > occasionally
>> >> > practiced & glorified by some Indians living in darkness .
>> >> > b)Brahmoism is dead set against all forms of superstitions/mumbo
>> >> > jumbo/black
>> >> > magic etc. which are as yet popular among a large segment of our
>> >> > population
>> >> > .
>> >> > c)Brahmoism is all about tolerance & open mindedness . Learning needs
>> >> > to
>> >> > be
>> >> > source agnostic . Dogmas & set beliefs have no place in our religion
>> >> > .
>> >> > Mere
>> >> > mention of Hitler generated needless fury on the other site no too
>> >> > far
>> >> > back
>> >> > .
>> >> > d)All the above messages reinforce key Brahmo ideals & hence very
>> >> > relevant .
>> >> > e)I can confidently say that a majority of us are not at all keen to
>> >> > debate
>> >> > schisms , splits & controversies of the Brahmo Samaj you are so
>> >> > enthusiastic
>> >> > about . Why rake up the past ?
>> >> > What's the big deal washing dirty linen in public ?
>> >> > f)Last but not the least , most of the messages you have referred to
>> >> > pertain
>> >> > to the other site . Why is it being discussed here ?
>> >> > Regards,
>> >> > Biswajit Dutta
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>>
>
>
>

"The Brahmo Samaj and the shaping of the modern Indian mind" by David Kopf

2009-05-17T03:54:26Z

The Brahmo Samaj and the shaping of the modern Indian mind By David Kopf

For people seriously interested in a Westerner's perspective on Brahmoism's development, this entertaining (if sometimes wildly inaccurate) book is available online couresy google. (A limited preview).

As the author acknowledges at the end, his book was mainly based on the Sophia Dobsot Collet section of the Sadharan Brahmo Samaj library (and grew out of his attendance of the Sammilan Samaj's Brahmo Conference at Hazaribagh in 1971).

Kopf also concludes (in 1979) that Brahmoism's biggest enemy would be Marxism.

http://books.google.co.in/books?id=IUcY_IRKDHQC

The Brahmo Samaj and the shaping of the modern Indian mind
By David Kopf
Edition: illustrated
Published by Atlantic Publishers & Distri, 1979
ISBN 0691031258, 9780691031255
399 pages

Re: Rituals and superstition rule

2009-05-16T23:32:24Z

So as I understand it now, Brahmoism holds:-

1) Every Being is a "part" authored by "God"

2) The notion of "soul" is a Christian concept inserted to bring alien notions like "sin", "salvation", "Heaven", "Hell", "Fatherhood of God" etc into the Brahmo space and to confuse and ensnare our adherents to Christianity (or worse).

3) That once we remove the entire alien notions of "soul", a "limited" God etc. from the Sadharan catechism / dikha we end up with

a) I believe in God as the One - Author and Preserver of Existence.
b) I believe that God manifests himself directly to Being and
that there are no mediators between God and Being in the shape of
prophets or scriptures.
c) I honour and accept all religious teachers and books so far as they are in harmony with direct revelation of God to Being.
d) I resolve to worship God daily and to practise holiness at all times anywhere.
e) I abjure caste and idolatry, and resolve to perform all domestic
observances according to the principles of the Brahmo Samaj. May God
help me in being faithful to the vow I take today.

Which, or something on these lines, should be acceptable to most Brahmos, notwithstanding the fact that such blandness utterly fails to convey why Brahmoism is UNIQUE. On second thoughts though, I will stick to the original version (partially available on http://brahmosamaj.org ) and not go with these remixes.

Sarbajit Roy

--- In brahmoconferenceorg@..., Rahul Dev Sharma <rahul.dvsharma@...> wrote:

>
> Dear sarbajit
>
> I could not care to comment on the dogma of the Sadharan Brahma Samaj.
> As we know, the primary division between Brahmas today is of
> 'anusthanic' Brahmas
> and 'ananusthanic" Brahmas.
>
> In the former category fall Adi Brahmos, AdiDharmaites and many
> Sadharan Brahmos,
> who collectively follow the Brahmic Trust Principles of 1830 and 1861 anusthan.
> The notion of 'soul' is anathema to such Brahmos, being ruled out by
> the 1861 anusthan
> and is properly termed as "Being" (life). Every "unmortal" Being is a
> part of God (Singularity, the Author
> and Preserver of Existence) which is sent out for a mission on
> completion of which it
> reintegrates with "God".
>
> "Being is created from Singularity. Being is renewed to Singularity.
> Being exists to be one again with Loving Singularity."
>
> Ananusthanic Brahmos on the other hand have a diferent notion of an
> "immortal" soul being eternally progressive towards God for its
> doings. This implies a karmic and fatalistic belief which is contrary
> to rational Brahmoism. In the 'diksha' (initiation) given to such
> followers they are quizzed on a catechism first compiled by Pandit
> Sitanath Tattwabhushan around 1920 from Hemendranath's 1861 original
> anusthan.
>
> Acharya: What is your idea of the human soul?
> Initiate: The human soul is capable of infinite progression to God for
> its doings.
>
> Acharya: What is your conception of Heaven and Hell?
> Initiate: I do not believe that there are distinct regions as Heaven
> and Hell. These correspond to spiritual conditions of individual
> souls. When God reveals himself in our soul and divine bliss is
> realised. I call this state Heaven; when the heart is vitiated with
> evil thoughts I call this state Hell. God rewards virtue and punishes
> sin. His punishments are remedial and not eternal.
>
> Acharya: What is salvation?
> Initiate: Salvation consists on the one hand in freedom from sin in
> words, thoughts and deeds; and on the other hand in union with God in
> wisdom, love and holiness. Man will ever approach, God in wisdom, love
> and holiness. but will never merge his self in the Universal Soul.
>
> Acharya: Then swear your faith in the principles of Brahmoism.
> Initate:
> I believe in God as the one only Creator and Sustainer of the world. I
> believe him to be infinite in power, wisdom, love and holiness.
> I believe the human soul to be immortal and eternally progressive.
> I believe that God manifests himself directly to the soul of man and
> that there are no mediators between God and the soul in the shape of
> prephets or scriptures.
> I honour and accept all religious teachers and books so far as they
> are in harmony with direct revelation of God in the soul.
> I resolve to worship God daily and to practise holiness with all my
> heart and soul.
> I abjure caste and idolatry, and resolve to perform all domestic
> ceremonies according to the principles of the Brahmo Samaj. May God
> help me in being faithful to the vow I take today.
>
> Anyone who compares the complete articles of faith from the 1861
> anusthan (which you have published on the website) with this corrupted
> and Christianised version of the ananusthanics, will see how far these
> "Brahmos" have deviated from True Brahmoism in order to Christianise
> our creed.
>
> Rahul
>
> On Sat, May 16, 2009 at 6:50 PM, sroy1947 <sroy1947@...> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Dear Rahul,
> >
> > 1) The "articles of faith" on wikipedia were lifted from a website I
> > currently own "http://brahmosamaj.org". The text is from well researched and
> > authentic sources (which I am sure you would acknowledge - privately if not
> > publicly).
> >
> > 2) Biswajit Dutta. as I understand, is nominally a Sadharanite. Another
> > Brahmo website I currently own "http://sadharanbrahmosamaj.org" has this to
> > put forward as Sadharan dogma on reason / rationality which is being
> > debated.
> >
> > "We regard the culture of faith at the sacrifice of reason, or the culture
> > of reason at the sacrifice of faith as equally defective, and as fruitful
> > sources of evil in the religious world;"
> >
> > 3) Yet another Sadharan Brahmo Samaj "dogma" goes as follows
> > "We regard the worship of one God as the highest of a Brahmo's duties and as
> > the best of means to improve the soul and the neglect of it as a way to
> > spiritual death."
> >
> > You Rahul, may care to defend your side's position on "soul" [or its
> > purported lack] in Brahmoism.
> >
> > Sarbajit Roy
> > New Delhi
> >
> > --- In brahmoconferenceorg@..., Rahul Dev Sharma
> > <rahul.dvsharma@> wrote:
> >>
> >> Dear Mr Biswajit
> >>
> >> 'Ad homimem' attacks are what trivialise the real issues. I am glad
> >> that we at least agree that superstition, mumbo-jumbo, dogma and
> >> non-reason etc are opposed to Brahmoism. But how many others here (so
> >> called Brahmos), would agree with you or me ?
> >>
> >> The current articles of faith for "True Brahmos" being very well
> >> defined, you may clarify if you reject / disagree with any of them, as
> >> only then can our debate proceed:-
> >> (source : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brahmo_religion )
> >>
> >> * Brahmos embrace righteousness as the only way of life.
> >> * Brahmos embrace truth, knowledge, reason, free will and virtuous
> >> intuition (observation) as guides.
> >> * Brahmos embrace secular principles but oppose sectarianism and
> >> imposition of religious belief into governance (especially propagation
> >> of religious belief by government).
> >> * Brahmos embrace the co-existence of Brahmo principles with
> >> governance, but oppose all governance in conflict with Brahmo
> >> principles.
> >> * Brahmos reject narrow theism (especially polytheism), idolatry and
> >> symbolism.
> >> * Brahmos reject the need for formal rituals, priests or places
> >> (church, temple, mosque) for worship.
> >> * Brahmos reject dogma and superstition.
> >> * Brahmos reject scripture as authority.
> >> * Brahmos reject revelations, prophets, gurus, messiahs, or avatars as
> >> authority.
> >> * Brahmos reject bigotry and irrational distinctions like caste,
> >> creed, colour, race, religion which divide beings.
> >> * Brahmos reject all forms of totalitarianism.
> >> * Brahmos examine the prevalent notion of "sin".
> >> * Brahmos examine the prevalent notions of "heaven" or "hell".
> >> * Brahmos examine the prevalent notion of "salvation".
> >>
> >> ( Adherence to these articles are required only of Adi Brahmos or such
> >> Sadharan Brahmos who accept Adi-ism ie. Trust deed of Brahmo Sabha
> >> 1830 as the source of their faith or Trust deed of Sadharan Brahmo
> >> Samaj 1880)
> >>
> >> We may also consider that no matter how much we may disagree with
> >> others and their irrational (to us) beliefs, Brahmoism does not permit
> >> us to disparage them / their beliefs publicly.
> >>
> >> Finally, concerning the issues which nobody wishes to rake up, it is
> >> precisely because nobody wishes to discuss them that they must be
> >> exposed publicly in dedicated groups such as this, and knowledgeable
> >> people like you must participate.
> >>
> >> Rahul
> >>
> >> On Sat, May 16, 2009 at 3:47 PM, biswajit dutta
> >> <bis_dutta2000@> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Dear Mr. Rahul Dev Sharma ,
> >> > The messages you trying to trivialize are very germane to Brahmoism :-
> >> > a)Brahmoism is all about logic, rationality & scientific mindedness . It
> >> > denounces all social evils including Sati which is still very
> >> > occasionally
> >> > practiced & glorified by some Indians living in darkness .
> >> > b)Brahmoism is dead set against all forms of superstitions/mumbo
> >> > jumbo/black
> >> > magic etc. which are as yet popular among a large segment of our
> >> > population
> >> > .
> >> > c)Brahmoism is all about tolerance & open mindedness . Learning needs to
> >> > be
> >> > source agnostic . Dogmas & set beliefs have no place in our religion .
> >> > Mere
> >> > mention of Hitler generated needless fury on the other site no too far
> >> > back
> >> > .
> >> > d)All the above messages reinforce key Brahmo ideals & hence very
> >> > relevant .
> >> > e)I can confidently say that a majority of us are not at all keen to
> >> > debate
> >> > schisms , splits & controversies of the Brahmo Samaj you are so
> >> > enthusiastic
> >> > about . Why rake up the past ?
> >> > What's the big deal washing dirty linen in public ?
> >> > f)Last but not the least , most of the messages you have referred to
> >> > pertain
> >> > to the other site . Why is it being discussed here ?
> >> > Regards,
> >> > Biswajit Dutta
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >
> >
>

Re: Re: Rituals and superstition rule

2009-05-16T22:58:10Z

Dear sarbajit

I could not care to comment on the dogma of the Sadharan Brahma Samaj.
As we know, the primary division between Brahmas today is of
'anusthanic' Brahmas
and 'ananusthanic" Brahmas.

In the former category fall Adi Brahmos, AdiDharmaites and many
Sadharan Brahmos,
who collectively follow the Brahmic Trust Principles of 1830 and 1861 anusthan.
The notion of 'soul' is anathema to such Brahmos, being ruled out by
the 1861 anusthan
and is properly termed as "Being" (life). Every "unmortal" Being is a
part of God (Singularity, the Author
and Preserver of Existence) which is sent out for a mission on
completion of which it
reintegrates with "God".

"Being is created from Singularity. Being is renewed to Singularity.
Being exists to be one again with Loving Singularity."

Ananusthanic Brahmos on the other hand have a diferent notion of an
"immortal" soul being eternally progressive towards God for its
doings. This implies a karmic and fatalistic belief which is contrary
to rational Brahmoism. In the 'diksha' (initiation) given to such
followers they are quizzed on a catechism first compiled by Pandit
Sitanath Tattwabhushan around 1920 from Hemendranath's 1861 original
anusthan.

Acharya: What is your idea of the human soul?
Initiate: The human soul is capable of infinite progression to God for
its doings.

Acharya: What is your conception of Heaven and Hell?
Initiate: I do not believe that there are distinct regions as Heaven
and Hell. These correspond to spiritual conditions of individual
souls. When God reveals himself in our soul and divine bliss is
realised. I call this state Heaven; when the heart is vitiated with
evil thoughts I call this state Hell. God rewards virtue and punishes
sin. His punishments are remedial and not eternal.

Acharya: What is salvation?
Initiate: Salvation consists on the one hand in freedom from sin in
words, thoughts and deeds; and on the other hand in union with God in
wisdom, love and holiness. Man will ever approach, God in wisdom, love
and holiness. but will never merge his self in the Universal Soul.

Acharya: Then swear your faith in the principles of Brahmoism.
Initate:
I believe in God as the one only Creator and Sustainer of the world. I
believe him to be infinite in power, wisdom, love and holiness.
I believe the human soul to be immortal and eternally progressive.
I believe that God manifests himself directly to the soul of man and
that there are no mediators between God and the soul in the shape of
prephets or scriptures.
I honour and accept all religious teachers and books so far as they
are in harmony with direct revelation of God in the soul.
I resolve to worship God daily and to practise holiness with all my
heart and soul.
I abjure caste and idolatry, and resolve to perform all domestic
ceremonies according to the principles of the Brahmo Samaj. May God
help me in being faithful to the vow I take today.

Anyone who compares the complete articles of faith from the 1861
anusthan (which you have published on the website) with this corrupted
and Christianised version of the ananusthanics, will see how far these
"Brahmos" have deviated from True Brahmoism in order to Christianise
our creed.

Rahul

On Sat, May 16, 2009 at 6:50 PM, sroy1947 <sroy1947@...> wrote:

>
>
> Dear Rahul,
>
> 1) The "articles of faith" on wikipedia were lifted from a website I
> currently own "http://brahmosamaj.org". The text is from well researched and
> authentic sources (which I am sure you would acknowledge - privately if not
> publicly).
>
> 2) Biswajit Dutta. as I understand, is nominally a Sadharanite. Another
> Brahmo website I currently own "http://sadharanbrahmosamaj.org" has this to
> put forward as Sadharan dogma on reason / rationality which is being
> debated.
>
> "We regard the culture of faith at the sacrifice of reason, or the culture
> of reason at the sacrifice of faith as equally defective, and as fruitful
> sources of evil in the religious world;"
>
> 3) Yet another Sadharan Brahmo Samaj "dogma" goes as follows
> "We regard the worship of one God as the highest of a Brahmo's duties and as
> the best of means to improve the soul and the neglect of it as a way to
> spiritual death."
>
> You Rahul, may care to defend your side's position on "soul" [or its
> purported lack] in Brahmoism.
>
> Sarbajit Roy
> New Delhi
>
> --- In brahmoconferenceorg@..., Rahul Dev Sharma
> <rahul.dvsharma@...> wrote:
>>
>> Dear Mr Biswajit
>>
>> 'Ad homimem' attacks are what trivialise the real issues. I am glad
>> that we at least agree that superstition, mumbo-jumbo, dogma and
>> non-reason etc are opposed to Brahmoism. But how many others here (so
>> called Brahmos), would agree with you or me ?
>>
>> The current articles of faith for "True Brahmos" being very well
>> defined, you may clarify if you reject / disagree with any of them, as
>> only then can our debate proceed:-
>> (source : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brahmo_religion )
>>
>> * Brahmos embrace righteousness as the only way of life.
>> * Brahmos embrace truth, knowledge, reason, free will and virtuous
>> intuition (observation) as guides.
>> * Brahmos embrace secular principles but oppose sectarianism and
>> imposition of religious belief into governance (especially propagation
>> of religious belief by government).
>> * Brahmos embrace the co-existence of Brahmo principles with
>> governance, but oppose all governance in conflict with Brahmo
>> principles.
>> * Brahmos reject narrow theism (especially polytheism), idolatry and
>> symbolism.
>> * Brahmos reject the need for formal rituals, priests or places
>> (church, temple, mosque) for worship.
>> * Brahmos reject dogma and superstition.
>> * Brahmos reject scripture as authority.
>> * Brahmos reject revelations, prophets, gurus, messiahs, or avatars as
>> authority.
>> * Brahmos reject bigotry and irrational distinctions like caste,
>> creed, colour, race, religion which divide beings.
>> * Brahmos reject all forms of totalitarianism.
>> * Brahmos examine the prevalent notion of "sin".
>> * Brahmos examine the prevalent notions of "heaven" or "hell".
>> * Brahmos examine the prevalent notion of "salvation".
>>
>> ( Adherence to these articles are required only of Adi Brahmos or such
>> Sadharan Brahmos who accept Adi-ism ie. Trust deed of Brahmo Sabha
>> 1830 as the source of their faith or Trust deed of Sadharan Brahmo
>> Samaj 1880)
>>
>> We may also consider that no matter how much we may disagree with
>> others and their irrational (to us) beliefs, Brahmoism does not permit
>> us to disparage them / their beliefs publicly.
>>
>> Finally, concerning the issues which nobody wishes to rake up, it is
>> precisely because nobody wishes to discuss them that they must be
>> exposed publicly in dedicated groups such as this, and knowledgeable
>> people like you must participate.
>>
>> Rahul
>>
>> On Sat, May 16, 2009 at 3:47 PM, biswajit dutta
>> <bis_dutta2000@...> wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> > Dear Mr. Rahul Dev Sharma ,
>> > The messages you trying to trivialize are very germane to Brahmoism :-
>> > a)Brahmoism is all about logic, rationality & scientific mindedness . It
>> > denounces all social evils including Sati which is still very
>> > occasionally
>> > practiced & glorified by some Indians living in darkness .
>> > b)Brahmoism is dead set against all forms of superstitions/mumbo
>> > jumbo/black
>> > magic etc. which are as yet popular among a large segment of our
>> > population
>> > .
>> > c)Brahmoism is all about tolerance & open mindedness . Learning needs to
>> > be
>> > source agnostic . Dogmas & set beliefs have no place in our religion .
>> > Mere
>> > mention of Hitler generated needless fury on the other site no too far
>> > back
>> > .
>> > d)All the above messages reinforce key Brahmo ideals & hence very
>> > relevant .
>> > e)I can confidently say that a majority of us are not at all keen to
>> > debate
>> > schisms , splits & controversies of the Brahmo Samaj you are so
>> > enthusiastic
>> > about . Why rake up the past ?
>> > What's the big deal washing dirty linen in public ?
>> > f)Last but not the least , most of the messages you have referred to
>> > pertain
>> > to the other site . Why is it being discussed here ?
>> > Regards,
>> > Biswajit Dutta
>> >
>> >
>>
>
>

Re: Rituals and superstition rule

2009-05-16T06:20:51Z

Dear Rahul,

1) The "articles of faith" on wikipedia were lifted from a website I currently own "http://brahmosamaj.org". The text is from well researched and authentic sources (which I am sure you would acknowledge - privately if not publicly).

2) Biswajit Dutta. as I understand, is nominally a Sadharanite. Another Brahmo website I currently own "http://sadharanbrahmosamaj.org" has this to put forward as Sadharan dogma on reason / rationality which is being debated.

"We regard the culture of faith at the sacrifice of reason, or the culture of reason at the sacrifice of faith as equally defective, and as fruitful sources of evil in the religious world;"

3) Yet another Sadharan Brahmo Samaj "dogma" goes as follows
"We regard the worship of one God as the highest of a Brahmo's duties and as the best of means to improve the soul and the neglect of it as a way to spiritual death."

You Rahul, may care to defend your side's position on "soul" [or its purported lack] in Brahmoism.

Sarbajit Roy
New Delhi

--- In brahmoconferenceorg@..., Rahul Dev Sharma <rahul.dvsharma@...> wrote:

>
> Dear Mr Biswajit
>
> 'Ad homimem' attacks are what trivialise the real issues. I am glad
> that we at least agree that superstition, mumbo-jumbo, dogma and
> non-reason etc are opposed to Brahmoism. But how many others here (so
> called Brahmos), would agree with you or me ?
>
> The current articles of faith for "True Brahmos" being very well
> defined, you may clarify if you reject / disagree with any of them, as
> only then can our debate proceed:-
> (source : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brahmo_religion )
>
> * Brahmos embrace righteousness as the only way of life.
> * Brahmos embrace truth, knowledge, reason, free will and virtuous
> intuition (observation) as guides.
> * Brahmos embrace secular principles but oppose sectarianism and
> imposition of religious belief into governance (especially propagation
> of religious belief by government).
> * Brahmos embrace the co-existence of Brahmo principles with
> governance, but oppose all governance in conflict with Brahmo
> principles.
> * Brahmos reject narrow theism (especially polytheism), idolatry and symbolism.
> * Brahmos reject the need for formal rituals, priests or places
> (church, temple, mosque) for worship.
> * Brahmos reject dogma and superstition.
> * Brahmos reject scripture as authority.
> * Brahmos reject revelations, prophets, gurus, messiahs, or avatars as
> authority.
> * Brahmos reject bigotry and irrational distinctions like caste,
> creed, colour, race, religion which divide beings.
> * Brahmos reject all forms of totalitarianism.
> * Brahmos examine the prevalent notion of "sin".
> * Brahmos examine the prevalent notions of "heaven" or "hell".
> * Brahmos examine the prevalent notion of "salvation".
>
> ( Adherence to these articles are required only of Adi Brahmos or such
> Sadharan Brahmos who accept Adi-ism ie. Trust deed of Brahmo Sabha
> 1830 as the source of their faith or Trust deed of Sadharan Brahmo
> Samaj 1880)
>
> We may also consider that no matter how much we may disagree with
> others and their irrational (to us) beliefs, Brahmoism does not permit
> us to disparage them / their beliefs publicly.
>
> Finally, concerning the issues which nobody wishes to rake up, it is
> precisely because nobody wishes to discuss them that they must be
> exposed publicly in dedicated groups such as this, and knowledgeable
> people like you must participate.
>
> Rahul
>
> On Sat, May 16, 2009 at 3:47 PM, biswajit dutta
> <bis_dutta2000@...> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Dear Mr. Rahul Dev Sharma ,
> > The messages you trying to trivialize are very germane to Brahmoism :-
> > a)Brahmoism is all about logic, rationality & scientific mindedness . It
> > denounces all social evils including Sati which is still very occasionally
> > practiced & glorified by some Indians living in darkness .
> > b)Brahmoism is dead set against all forms of superstitions/mumbo jumbo/black
> > magic etc. which are as yet popular among a large segment of our population
> > .
> > c)Brahmoism is all about tolerance & open mindedness . Learning needs to be
> > source agnostic . Dogmas & set beliefs have no place in our religion . Mere
> > mention of Hitler generated needless fury on the other site no too far back
> > .
> > d)All the above messages reinforce key Brahmo ideals & hence very relevant .
> > e)I can confidently say that a majority of us are not at all keen to debate
> > schisms , splits & controversies of the Brahmo Samaj you are so enthusiastic
> > about . Why rake up the past ?
> > What's the big deal washing dirty linen in public ?
> > f)Last but not the least , most of the messages you have referred to pertain
> > to the other site . Why is it being discussed here ?
> > Regards,
> > Biswajit Dutta
> >
> >
>

Re: Rituals and superstition rule

2009-05-16T05:39:38Z

Dear Mr Biswajit

'Ad homimem' attacks are what trivialise the real issues. I am glad
that we at least agree that superstition, mumbo-jumbo, dogma and
non-reason etc are opposed to Brahmoism. But how many others here (so
called Brahmos), would agree with you or me ?

The current articles of faith for "True Brahmos" being very well
defined, you may clarify if you reject / disagree with any of them, as
only then can our debate proceed:-
(source : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brahmo_religion )

* Brahmos embrace righteousness as the only way of life.
* Brahmos embrace truth, knowledge, reason, free will and virtuous
intuition (observation) as guides.
* Brahmos embrace secular principles but oppose sectarianism and
imposition of religious belief into governance (especially propagation
of religious belief by government).
* Brahmos embrace the co-existence of Brahmo principles with
governance, but oppose all governance in conflict with Brahmo
principles.
* Brahmos reject narrow theism (especially polytheism), idolatry and symbolism.
* Brahmos reject the need for formal rituals, priests or places
(church, temple, mosque) for worship.
* Brahmos reject dogma and superstition.
* Brahmos reject scripture as authority.
* Brahmos reject revelations, prophets, gurus, messiahs, or avatars as
authority.
* Brahmos reject bigotry and irrational distinctions like caste,
creed, colour, race, religion which divide beings.
* Brahmos reject all forms of totalitarianism.
* Brahmos examine the prevalent notion of "sin".
* Brahmos examine the prevalent notions of "heaven" or "hell".
* Brahmos examine the prevalent notion of "salvation".

( Adherence to these articles are required only of Adi Brahmos or such
Sadharan Brahmos who accept Adi-ism ie. Trust deed of Brahmo Sabha
1830 as the source of their faith or Trust deed of Sadharan Brahmo
Samaj 1880)

We may also consider that no matter how much we may disagree with
others and their irrational (to us) beliefs, Brahmoism does not permit
us to disparage them / their beliefs publicly.

Finally, concerning the issues which nobody wishes to rake up, it is
precisely because nobody wishes to discuss them that they must be
exposed publicly in dedicated groups such as this, and knowledgeable
people like you must participate.

Rahul

On Sat, May 16, 2009 at 3:47 PM, biswajit dutta
<bis_dutta2000@...> wrote:

>
>
> Dear Mr. Rahul Dev Sharma ,
> The messages you trying to trivialize are very germane to Brahmoism :-
> a)Brahmoism is all about logic, rationality & scientific mindedness . It
> denounces all social evils including Sati which is still very occasionally
> practiced & glorified by some Indians living in darkness .
> b)Brahmoism is dead set against all forms of superstitions/mumbo jumbo/black
> magic etc. which are as yet popular among a large segment of our population
> .
> c)Brahmoism is all about tolerance & open mindedness . Learning needs to be
> source agnostic . Dogmas & set beliefs have no place in our religion . Mere
> mention of Hitler generated needless fury on the other site no too far back
> .
> d)All the above messages reinforce key Brahmo ideals & hence very relevant .
> e)I can confidently say that a majority of us are not at all keen to debate
> schisms , splits & controversies of the Brahmo Samaj you are so enthusiastic
> about . Why rake up the past ?
> What's the big deal washing dirty linen in public ?
> f)Last but not the least , most of the messages you have referred to pertain
> to the other site . Why is it being discussed here ?
> Regards,
> Biswajit Dutta
>
>

Re: Rituals and superstition rule

2009-05-16T03:17:56Z

Dear Mr. Rahul Dev Sharma ,
The messages you trying to trivialize are very germane to Brahmoism :-
a)Brahmoism is all about logic, rationality & scientific mindedness . It denounces all social evils including Sati which is still very occasionally practiced & glorified by some Indians living in darkness .
b)Brahmoism is dead set against all forms of superstitions/mumbo jumbo/black magic etc. which are as yet popular among a large segment of our population .
c)Brahmoism is all about tolerance & open mindedness . Learning needs to be source agnostic . Dogmas & set beliefs have no place in our religion . Mere mention of Hitler generated needless fury on the other site no too far back .
d)All the above messages reinforce key Brahmo ideals & hence very relevant .
e)I can confidently say that a majority of us are not at all keen to debate schisms , splits & controversies of the Brahmo Samaj you are so enthusiastic about . Why rake up the past ?
What's the big deal washing dirty linen in public ?
f)Last but not the least , most of the messages you have referred to pertain to the other site . Why is it being discussed here ?
Regards,
Biswajit Dutta

--- On Sat, 16/5/09, Rahul Dev Sharma <rahul.dvsharma@...> wrote:

From: Rahul Dev Sharma <rahul.dvsharma@...>
Subject: Re: [brahmoconferenceorg] Rituals and superstition rule
To: brahmoconferenceorg@...
Date: Saturday, 16 May, 2009, 12:29 PM

Dear Debanjan,

We should ask ourselves

Is Brahmoism about rationalism ?
Is the Brahmo Samaj a NGO ?
What is the purpose of such messages being collectively mailed to
"Brahmos" by these groups ?
Are messages on Hitler's supposed management genius relevant to "Brahmos" ?
Is the suppression of sati and similar practices important in modern
Brahmoism ?

Regretably no Brahmo is prepared to publicly debate such matters (or
the earlier 8 I had listed).

Rahul

On Wed, May 13, 2009 at 1:56 PM, Ray, Debanjan IN BLR SISL
<debanjan.ray@...> wrote:

>
>
> Dear all,
>
>
>
> I read some interesting article in yesterday’s Times of India, Bangalore
> edition, page-6
>
> Visit: http://epaper.timesofindia.com
> =============================
>
> Rituals and superstition rule
>
> Despite Campaigns By Rationalists And NGOs, Many Of Them Continue To Be
> Practised
>
> Rishikesh Bahadur Desai | TNN
>
> Hubli: North Karnataka abounds with stories of rituals based on blind belief
> and superstition. The occurrence and intensity of the rituals have reduced
> over the years, but continue to hold sway.
>    While some rituals like asking a person from the Kuruba community to make
> the first purchase in a new shop are habitually observed, there are others
> that are inhuman, and dangerous. There are others that can be funny too.
>
> DANGEROUS RITUALS
>
> WALKING ON FIRE
>
> The most common ritual practised here is walking on fire. It is observed by
> members of several communities across the state. It is held in temples and
> mosques. The faithful say the ritual washes away their sins. Efforts to stop
> the ritual have been of little help, probably because it is not as dangerous
> as it seems.
>
> HANGING BY HOOKS
>
> The Sidi ritual, made famous by Kamal Hassan in the film Dashavataram is in
> vogue in temple fairs in Bijapur, Gulbarga and other districts. One hangs by
> steel hooks from a rope attached to a high mastpole. This ritual gets
> bizarre at times. Last year, a woman tied a calf to her belly while she hung
> from the hooks in the Maruteshwar temple fair in Bijapur. The NHRC has asked
> the Gulbarga DC to stop the practice in the Bhagyavanti temple in Ghattarga,
> after the Rationalist Association demonstrated that there was no miracle in
> it.
>
> THROWING BABIES
>
> It is believed that throwing babies down from atop a temple in Nidoni,
> Bijapur district, makes the toddlers strong. The father or uncle takes the
> baby to the temple roof and drops it down. However, the baby is not hurt as
> it falls on the chaddar or sacred cloth devotees hold like a net.
>    A more recent ritual is Ayyappa devotees dunking babies in boiling oil.
> Rationalists say devotees passed off cold oil with froth as boiling oil.
> While the police said they would act only against complaints, the department
> of social welfare had said it would take action. But one year and two more
> such incidents later, district officials are yet to take action.
>
> BHANAMATI
>
> The most dangerous belief is that of Bhanamati. It exists in many forms.
> Psychosomatic disorders are confused for enchantment. Bodies being taken
> over by ghosts, sorcery and physical violence are common. Magic tricks like
> wooden objects catching fire seemingly by themselves are all attributed to
> Bhanamati. The incidence is high in Gulbarga and Bidar. A macabre incident
> of a girl hung upside down and left to die in a jungle in Gulbarga brought
> the practice nationwide attention a few years ago. NGOs have been fighting
> it.
>
> KARANIKA PENANCE
>
> At fairs in Devaragudda and Mailar in Haveri district, devotees believe the
> reigning deity Mailara Linga is pleased by physical penance. Goravas, or
> worshippers who take up penance, whip themselves, bind themselves in chains,
> bark like dogs, eat directly from plates or dance like horses.
>    The most excruciating is the Karanika penance where he fasts for a day
> and climbs a 12-metre bow. He jumps onto a cloth held below, uttering a
> complex phrase which the priests decipher as the Gods’ prediction for the
> coming year. Some pierce their bodies with thorns and nails.
>
> DEHUMANIZING
>
>
>
> DEVADASI SYSTEM
>
> The oldest tradition that grew out of superstition is the Devadasi system.
> This evil system that has pushed several thousands of women into
> prostitution is based on the belief that a woman who is married to the Lord
> becomes a ‘Nitya Sumangali, an eternally auspicious woman.
>    Gejje Pooje or the worship of the ankle bells; Kalyana or the symbolic
> marriage to the trident, spear or linga (the phallic image of God);
> dedication and branding with a heated trident on her right upper arm to test
> her purity are all part of the ritual. Once she is deemed suitable for the
> ritual, traditionally her first client is the king, priest or the landlord.
> They are made to believe their emancipation lies in Vikraya (selling
> themselves). Several NGOs and women’s organizations in Saudatti and Gokak
> are working towards eradicating this.
>
> NUDE PARADE
>
> The nude parade at Chandragutti is among the most sensational rituals since
> centuries. Hundreds of men and women gather at this village in Shimoga
> district during the Renuka temple fair in March. They take a dip in the
> Varada river and walk to the hill top bare-bodied to offer prayers to the
> local deity Matangi.
>    All hell broke loose in March 1986, when police and NGOs tried to stop
> the ritual and media persons tried to cover it. Angry worshippers chased and
> stripped some policemen and activists. The government banned the practice in
> 1986. Officials believe the ritual no longer exists. But in 1993, there were
> reports that the practice had resumed.
>
> CELEBRITY STATUS
>
>
>
> BALU MAMA’S SHEEP
>
> Some practices have, of late, caught the fancy of celebrities. Grazing Balu
> Mama’s sheep has gained popularity among netas, who believe it brings poll
> victory. Leaders like Basavaraj Bommai, K S Eshwarappa and Shivarama Gowda
> have grazed these sheep in the past. Balu Mama was a saint in Maharashtra in
> the 19th century who endowed a herd of sheep the power to bless others. The
> strain of those chosen sheep has been carefully preserved by some families.
> These families go around grazing their sheep and allow devotees to have a
> darshan of the animals they consider sacred. Believers also claim that a ram
> among the herd gives milk. Veterinary doctors say it is a hormonal anomaly.
>
> WHY HERE?
>
> Experts say prolonged poverty, low literacy levels and lack of exposure to
> modern living foster such mindsets in these predominantly rural areas.
> Higher levels of education, stricter implementation of anti-superstition
> laws and increasing awareness can bring about a change. “Low literacy levels
> and biting poverty lead to a fatalistic attitude. This mindset leads to the
> birth and continued existence of blind belief,” says rationalist Shridhar
> Kadam of Hubli, explaining the high occurrence of such rituals in the areas.
> However, Belgaum-based thinker and activist Dilip Kamath says “Blind belief
> is not limited to any region. It exists across the state and the country.
> However, it gets accentuated in backward areas like north Karnataka.’’
>
> THE FUNNY SIDE
>
>
>
> WALKING BACKWARDS
>
> Reaching the Dyamavva shrine in Ugargol, Belgaum district, might turn out to
> be quite a task, especially if you are travelling alone. The ritual here
> demands that after climbing the hillock to go to the temple, the head of the
> family walks with his back to the temple’s front door!
>
> LIQUOR OFFERING
>
> At the Babaladi temple in Bijapur, teetotallers are likely to feel a bit out
> of place. The traditional sacred offering to Goddess Chandramma Devi is
> liquor. A travel advisory of this place might read like this: “A visit to
> this place keeps your spirits high.”
>
> WHAT CAN BE DONE?
>
> Rationalists feel it is not impossible to lead people away from blind
> belief. “We need to address the issue as a package of social and economic
> deprivation. People affected by superstition should be taken into confidence
> and involved in the change process,’’ Kamath said. Narendra Nayak, president
> of the Federation of Indian Rationalist Associations, feels it is wrong to
> think that higher education levels will automatically set things right. It
> is possible by promoting scientific temper. “However, any superstition can
> be eradicated over time. It needs concerted efforts by concerned groups. Our
> constitution says that developing scientific temper and promoting the spirit
> of inquiry is our fundamental duty. Each of us should follow it,” he said.
>
>
> With best regards,
> Debanjan Ray

------------------------------------

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Re: Rituals and superstition rule

2009-05-15T23:59:23Z

Dear Debanjan,

We should ask ourselves

Is Brahmoism about rationalism ?
Is the Brahmo Samaj a NGO ?
What is the purpose of such messages being collectively mailed to
"Brahmos" by these groups ?
Are messages on Hitler's supposed management genius relevant to "Brahmos" ?
Is the suppression of sati and similar practices important in modern
Brahmoism ?

Regretably no Brahmo is prepared to publicly debate such matters (or
the earlier 8 I had listed).

Rahul

On Wed, May 13, 2009 at 1:56 PM, Ray, Debanjan IN BLR SISL
<debanjan.ray@...> wrote:

------------------------------------

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Rituals and superstition rule

2009-05-13T01:26:16Z

Dear all,

I read some interesting article in yesterday's Times of India, Bangalore edition, page-6
Visit: http://epaper.timesofindia.com<http://epaper.timesofindia.com/>

=============================
Rituals and superstition rule

Despite Campaigns By Rationalists And NGOs, Many Of Them Continue To Be Practised

Rishikesh Bahadur Desai | TNN

Hubli: North Karnataka abounds with stories of rituals based on blind belief and superstition. The occurrence and intensity of the rituals have reduced over the years, but continue to hold sway.
While some rituals like asking a person from the Kuruba community to make the first purchase in a new shop are habitually observed, there are others that are inhuman, and dangerous. There are others that can be funny too.

DANGEROUS RITUALS

WALKING ON FIRE

The most common ritual practised here is walking on fire. It is observed by members of several communities across the state. It is held in temples and mosques. The faithful say the ritual washes away their sins. Efforts to stop the ritual have been of little help, probably because it is not as dangerous as it seems.

HANGING BY HOOKS

The Sidi ritual, made famous by Kamal Hassan in the film Dashavataram is in vogue in temple fairs in Bijapur, Gulbarga and other districts. One hangs by steel hooks from a rope attached to a high mastpole. This ritual gets bizarre at times. Last year, a woman tied a calf to her belly while she hung from the hooks in the Maruteshwar temple fair in Bijapur. The NHRC has asked the Gulbarga DC to stop the practice in the Bhagyavanti temple in Ghattarga, after the Rationalist Association demonstrated that there was no miracle in it.

THROWING BABIES

It is believed that throwing babies down from atop a temple in Nidoni, Bijapur district, makes the toddlers strong. The father or uncle takes the baby to the temple roof and drops it down. However, the baby is not hurt as it falls on the chaddar or sacred cloth devotees hold like a net.
A more recent ritual is Ayyappa devotees dunking babies in boiling oil. Rationalists say devotees passed off cold oil with froth as boiling oil. While the police said they would act only against complaints, the department of social welfare had said it would take action. But one year and two more such incidents later, district officials are yet to take action.

BHANAMATI

The most dangerous belief is that of Bhanamati. It exists in many forms. Psychosomatic disorders are confused for enchantment. Bodies being taken over by ghosts, sorcery and physical violence are common. Magic tricks like wooden objects catching fire seemingly by themselves are all attributed to Bhanamati. The incidence is high in Gulbarga and Bidar. A macabre incident of a girl hung upside down and left to die in a jungle in Gulbarga brought the practice nationwide attention a few years ago. NGOs have been fighting it.

KARANIKA PENANCE

At fairs in Devaragudda and Mailar in Haveri district, devotees believe the reigning deity Mailara Linga is pleased by physical penance. Goravas, or worshippers who take up penance, whip themselves, bind themselves in chains, bark like dogs, eat directly from plates or dance like horses.
The most excruciating is the Karanika penance where he fasts for a day and climbs a 12-metre bow. He jumps onto a cloth held below, uttering a complex phrase which the priests decipher as the Gods' prediction for the coming year. Some pierce their bodies with thorns and nails.

DEHUMANIZING

DEVADASI SYSTEM

The oldest tradition that grew out of superstition is the Devadasi system. This evil system that has pushed several thousands of women into prostitution is based on the belief that a woman who is married to the Lord becomes a 'Nitya Sumangali, an eternally auspicious woman.
Gejje Pooje or the worship of the ankle bells; Kalyana or the symbolic marriage to the trident, spear or linga (the phallic image of God); dedication and branding with a heated trident on her right upper arm to test her purity are all part of the ritual. Once she is deemed suitable for the ritual, traditionally her first client is the king, priest or the landlord. They are made to believe their emancipation lies in Vikraya (selling themselves). Several NGOs and women's organizations in Saudatti and Gokak are working towards eradicating this.

NUDE PARADE

The nude parade at Chandragutti is among the most sensational rituals since centuries. Hundreds of men and women gather at this village in Shimoga district during the Renuka temple fair in March. They take a dip in the Varada river and walk to the hill top bare-bodied to offer prayers to the local deity Matangi.
All hell broke loose in March 1986, when police and NGOs tried to stop the ritual and media persons tried to cover it. Angry worshippers chased and stripped some policemen and activists. The government banned the practice in 1986. Officials believe the ritual no longer exists. But in 1993, there were reports that the practice had resumed.

CELEBRITY STATUS

BALU MAMA'S SHEEP

Some practices have, of late, caught the fancy of celebrities. Grazing Balu Mama's sheep has gained popularity among netas, who believe it brings poll victory. Leaders like Basavaraj Bommai, K S Eshwarappa and Shivarama Gowda have grazed these sheep in the past. Balu Mama was a saint in Maharashtra in the 19th century who endowed a herd of sheep the power to bless others. The strain of those chosen sheep has been carefully preserved by some families. These families go around grazing their sheep and allow devotees to have a darshan of the animals they consider sacred. Believers also claim that a ram among the herd gives milk. Veterinary doctors say it is a hormonal anomaly.

WHY HERE?

Experts say prolonged poverty, low literacy levels and lack of exposure to modern living foster such mindsets in these predominantly rural areas. Higher levels of education, stricter implementation of anti-superstition laws and increasing awareness can bring about a change. "Low literacy levels and biting poverty lead to a fatalistic attitude. This mindset leads to the birth and continued existence of blind belief," says rationalist Shridhar Kadam of Hubli, explaining the high occurrence of such rituals in the areas. However, Belgaum-based thinker and activist Dilip Kamath says "Blind belief is not limited to any region. It exists across the state and the country. However, it gets accentuated in backward areas like north Karnataka.''

THE FUNNY SIDE

WALKING BACKWARDS

Reaching the Dyamavva shrine in Ugargol, Belgaum district, might turn out to be quite a task, especially if you are travelling alone. The ritual here demands that after climbing the hillock to go to the temple, the head of the family walks with his back to the temple's front door!

LIQUOR OFFERING

At the Babaladi temple in Bijapur, teetotallers are likely to feel a bit out of place. The traditional sacred offering to Goddess Chandramma Devi is liquor. A travel advisory of this place might read like this: "A visit to this place keeps your spirits high."

WHAT CAN BE DONE?

Rationalists feel it is not impossible to lead people away from blind belief. "We need to address the issue as a package of social and economic deprivation. People affected by superstition should be taken into confidence and involved in the change process,'' Kamath said. Narendra Nayak, president of the Federation of Indian Rationalist Associations, feels it is wrong to think that higher education levels will automatically set things right. It is possible by promoting scientific temper. "However, any superstition can be eradicated over time. It needs concerted efforts by concerned groups. Our constitution says that developing scientific temper and promoting the spirit of inquiry is our fundamental duty. Each of us should follow it," he said.

[cid:image001.jpg@...]
BLINDED BY FAITH

[cid:image002.jpg@...]
NO FIERY TEST

[cid:image003.jpg@...]
ABUSING INNOCENCE

[cid:image004.jpg@...]
SINNED AGAINST

=============================
With best regards,
Debanjan Ray

________________________________
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Re: [brahmoconference] Contributions

2009-05-07T03:37:41Z

Dear Rahul,

It woul be futile to discuss your "controversies" here. For the most
part these are controversies only for the unitiated and sharing our
knowledge would be like casting pearls in this time of swine flu.

Malay Sanyal

--- In brahmoconferenceorg@..., Rahul Dev Sharma
<rahul.dvsharma@...> wrote:

>
> Dear Brahmo Friends
>
> With all respect to my elders, these kinds of discussions will not
> result in anything tangible. We must acknowledge the schisms,
> controversies and divisions which are behind this stalemate. For
> example
>
> a) Brahmos are Brahmins controversy
> b) Brahmos are Hindus / not Hindus controversy
> c) The precepts from History of the Adi Brahmo Samaj controversy
> d) The Kriya Yoga origin controversy
> e) The "what really happened on the Rishikesh hill ?" controversy
> f) The ghoola controversy
> g) The saibaba controversy
>
> Until these are squarely debated the neccessity of groups like ours reduces.
>
> Rahul
>
> On 5/1/09, Malay Sanyal <malay.sanyal@...> wrote:
> > Dear Mr Ray,
> >
> > It is correct that you know quite little about genetics. The issue we
> > are discussing is genomics - specifically human genomics (human
> > genome) of which each human has about 3 or 4 BILLION pairs which is
> > stored in the 23 chromosomes you have mentioned.
> >
> > All the statements I had listed are correct and are included within
> > the core precepts of Brahmoism which were decided in 1873 and which
> > are only now being (re)confirmed by modern scientific methods.
> >
> > Dr Malay Sanyal
> >
> > --- In brahmoconferenceorg@..., "Ray, Debanjan IN BLR
> > SISL" <debanjan.ray@> wrote:
> >>
> >> Dear Dr. Sanyal,
> >>
> >> With my very little knowledge about genetics, following are some
> >> scientific truths:
> >> 1) In Human beings, most body cells contains 46 chromosomes( 23 pairs).
> >> Out of each pair of chromosomes, one comes from father; another from
> >> mother - intact.
> >> 2) Each chromosome contains one single DNA; and each DNA contains multiple
> >> genes. For every characteristic, there is a gene. One gene from one
> >> chromosome(say from father), has got one equivalent gene in another
> >> chromosome(from father). But only one is active (dominant); another one is
> >> recessive.
> >> 3) When one body cell divides into another body cell through normal cell
> >> division, called as mitosis, two cells contain identical 23 pairs of
> >> chromosomes; again one chromosome is from father, another from mother -
> >> intact.
> >> 4) But when a child is produced, a special cell division called as meiosis
> >> occurs, where the sperm or egg cell is produced, which contain ONLY 23
> >> chromosomes. Each of these chromosomes contains one gene for one
> >> characteristic which means the gene either comes from father, or from
> >> mother. So, sperm or egg cell has partial information of ancestors.
> >> 5) When fertilization takes place, egg cell and sperm cell contribute 23
> >> chromosomes each, thus again making 23 pairs. So the resultant child
> >> contains ONLY PARTIAL PROPERTIES of his/her paternal grandfather, paternal
> >> grandmother, maternal grandfather and maternal grandmother.
> >>
> >> Thus, following statements are not correct:
> >> "2) That we are the sum of our ancestors
> >> 3) That we contain all our ancestors in our genes and our bodies and
> >> within us"
> >>
> >> With best regards,
> >> Debanjan Ray
> >
>

Re: Re: [brahmoconference] Contributions

2009-05-01T02:56:07Z

Dear Brahmo Friends

With all respect to my elders, these kinds of discussions will not
result in anything tangible. We must acknowledge the schisms,
controversies and divisions which are behind this stalemate. For
example

a) Brahmos are Brahmins controversy
b) Brahmos are Hindus / not Hindus controversy
c) The precepts from History of the Adi Brahmo Samaj controversy
d) The Kriya Yoga origin controversy
e) The "what really happened on the Rishikesh hill ?" controversy
f) The ghoola controversy
g) The saibaba controversy

Until these are squarely debated the neccessity of groups like ours reduces.

Rahul

On 5/1/09, Malay Sanyal <malay.sanyal@...> wrote:

> Dear Mr Ray,
>
> It is correct that you know quite little about genetics. The issue we
> are discussing is genomics - specifically human genomics (human
> genome) of which each human has about 3 or 4 BILLION pairs which is
> stored in the 23 chromosomes you have mentioned.
>
> All the statements I had listed are correct and are included within
> the core precepts of Brahmoism which were decided in 1873 and which
> are only now being (re)confirmed by modern scientific methods.
>
> Dr Malay Sanyal
>
> --- In brahmoconferenceorg@..., "Ray, Debanjan IN BLR
> SISL" <debanjan.ray@...> wrote:
>>
>> Dear Dr. Sanyal,
>>
>> With my very little knowledge about genetics, following are some
>> scientific truths:
>> 1) In Human beings, most body cells contains 46 chromosomes( 23 pairs).
>> Out of each pair of chromosomes, one comes from father; another from
>> mother - intact.
>> 2) Each chromosome contains one single DNA; and each DNA contains multiple
>> genes. For every characteristic, there is a gene. One gene from one
>> chromosome(say from father), has got one equivalent gene in another
>> chromosome(from father). But only one is active (dominant); another one is
>> recessive.
>> 3) When one body cell divides into another body cell through normal cell
>> division, called as mitosis, two cells contain identical 23 pairs of
>> chromosomes; again one chromosome is from father, another from mother -
>> intact.
>> 4) But when a child is produced, a special cell division called as meiosis
>> occurs, where the sperm or egg cell is produced, which contain ONLY 23
>> chromosomes. Each of these chromosomes contains one gene for one
>> characteristic which means the gene either comes from father, or from
>> mother. So, sperm or egg cell has partial information of ancestors.
>> 5) When fertilization takes place, egg cell and sperm cell contribute 23
>> chromosomes each, thus again making 23 pairs. So the resultant child
>> contains ONLY PARTIAL PROPERTIES of his/her paternal grandfather, paternal
>> grandmother, maternal grandfather and maternal grandmother.
>>
>> Thus, following statements are not correct:
>> "2) That we are the sum of our ancestors
>> 3) That we contain all our ancestors in our genes and our bodies and
>> within us"
>>
>> With best regards,
>> Debanjan Ray
>

Re: [brahmoconference] Contributions

2009-05-01T00:32:30Z

Dear Mr Ray,

It is correct that you know quite little about genetics. The issue we
are discussing is genomics - specifically human genomics (human
genome) of which each human has about 3 or 4 BILLION pairs which is
stored in the 23 chromosomes you have mentioned.

All the statements I had listed are correct and are included within
the core precepts of Brahmoism which were decided in 1873 and which
are only now being (re)confirmed by modern scientific methods.

Dr Malay Sanyal

--- In brahmoconferenceorg@..., "Ray, Debanjan IN BLR
SISL" <debanjan.ray@...> wrote:

>
> Dear Dr. Sanyal,
>
> With my very little knowledge about genetics, following are some scientific truths:
> 1) In Human beings, most body cells contains 46 chromosomes( 23 pairs). Out of each pair of chromosomes, one comes from father; another from mother - intact.
> 2) Each chromosome contains one single DNA; and each DNA contains multiple genes. For every characteristic, there is a gene. One gene from one chromosome(say from father), has got one equivalent gene in another chromosome(from father). But only one is active (dominant); another one is recessive.
> 3) When one body cell divides into another body cell through normal cell division, called as mitosis, two cells contain identical 23 pairs of chromosomes; again one chromosome is from father, another from mother - intact.
> 4) But when a child is produced, a special cell division called as meiosis occurs, where the sperm or egg cell is produced, which contain ONLY 23 chromosomes. Each of these chromosomes contains one gene for one characteristic which means the gene either comes from father, or from mother. So, sperm or egg cell has partial information of ancestors.
> 5) When fertilization takes place, egg cell and sperm cell contribute 23 chromosomes each, thus again making 23 pairs. So the resultant child contains ONLY PARTIAL PROPERTIES of his/her paternal grandfather, paternal grandmother, maternal grandfather and maternal grandmother.
>
> Thus, following statements are not correct:
> "2) That we are the sum of our ancestors
> 3) That we contain all our ancestors in our genes and our bodies and within us"
>
> With best regards,
> Debanjan Ray