Bug#553529: xscreensaver: Fake crash screensaver should not be enabled by default

[Daniel Dickinson-11]

Package: xscreensaver
Version: 5.05-3
Severity: grave
Justification: causes non-serious data loss

The fake crash screensaver causes users who don't know about it to panic and
reboot the system, without necessarily hit other keys first, thereby
potentially causing data loss.  It's really a bad idea to have something that
look like a fatal error and says to reboot, for a user who is not expecting it.

-- System Information:
Debian Release: 5.0.3
  APT prefers stable
  APT policy: (500, 'stable')
Architecture: amd64 (x86_64)

Kernel: Linux 2.6.26-2-amd64 (SMP w/2 CPU cores)
Locale: LANG=en_CA.UTF-8, LC_CTYPE=en_CA.UTF-8 (charmap=UTF-8)
Shell: /bin/sh linked to /bin/bash

Versions of packages xscreensaver depends on:
ii  libatk1.0-0         1.22.0-1             The ATK accessibility toolkit
ii  libc6               2.7-18               GNU C Library: Shared libraries
ii  libcairo2           1.6.4-7              The Cairo 2D vector graphics libra
ii  libglade2-0         1:2.6.2-1            library to load .glade files at ru
ii  libglib2.0-0        2.16.6-2             The GLib library of C routines
ii  libgtk2.0-0         2.12.12-1~lenny1     The GTK+ graphical user interface
ii  libice6             2:1.0.4-1            X11 Inter-Client Exchange library
ii  libpam0g            1.0.1-5+lenny1       Pluggable Authentication Modules l
ii  libpango1.0-0       1.20.5-5             Layout and rendering of internatio
ii  libsm6              2:1.0.3-2            X11 Session Management library
ii  libx11-6            2:1.1.5-2            X11 client-side library
ii  libxext6            2:1.0.4-1            X11 miscellaneous extension librar
ii  libxinerama1        2:1.0.3-2            X11 Xinerama extension library
ii  libxml2             2.6.32.dfsg-5+lenny1 GNOME XML library
ii  libxmu6             2:1.0.4-1            X11 miscellaneous utility library
ii  libxpm4             1:3.5.7-1            X11 pixmap library
ii  libxrandr2          2:1.2.3-1            X11 RandR extension library
ii  libxrender1         1:0.9.4-2            X Rendering Extension client libra
ii  libxt6              1:1.0.5-3            X11 toolkit intrinsics library
ii  libxxf86misc1       1:1.0.1-3            X11 XFree86 miscellaneous extensio
ii  libxxf86vm1         1:1.0.2-1            X11 XFree86 video mode extension l
ii  xscreensaver-data   5.05-3               data files to be shared among scre

Versions of packages xscreensaver recommends:
ii  libjpeg-progs          6b-14             Programs for manipulating JPEG fil
ii  perl [perl5]           5.10.0-19lenny2   Larry Wall's Practical Extraction
ii  wamerican [wordlist]   6-2.3             American English dictionary words
ii  wcanadian-huge [wordli 6-2.3             Canadian English dictionary words
ii  xli                    1.17.0+20061110-3 command line tool for viewing imag
ii  xloadimage             4.1-16.1          Graphics file viewer under X11

Versions of packages xscreensaver suggests:
ii  elinks [www-browser]       0.11.4-3      advanced text-mode WWW browser
ii  fortune-mod [fortune]      1:1.99.1-3.1  provides fortune cookies on demand
ii  iceweasel [www-browser]    3.0.6-3       lightweight web browser based on M
ii  lynx-cur [www-browser]     2.8.7dev9-2.1 Text-mode WWW Browser with NLS sup
pn  qcam | streamer            <none>        (no description available)
ii  w3m [www-browser]          0.5.2-2+b1    WWW browsable pager with excellent
pn  xdaliclock                 <none>        (no description available)
pn  xfishtank                  <none>        (no description available)
pn  xscreensaver-gl            <none>        (no description available)

-- no debconf information



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[Jose Luis Rivas-2]

Severity 553529 wishlist
Quit

Haha. This is a problem between the chair and the keyboard, this is not a RC bug. ;-)

Cheers!
-----Original Message-----
From: Daniel Dickinson <crazycshore@...>
Date: Sat, 31 Oct 2009 23:54:55
To: Debian Bug Tracking System<submit@...>
Subject: Bug#553529: xscreensaver: Fake crash screensaver should not be enabled by default

Package: xscreensaver
Version: 5.05-3
Severity: grave
Justification: causes non-serious data loss

The fake crash screensaver causes users who don't know about it to panic and
reboot the system, without necessarily hit other keys first, thereby
potentially causing data loss.  It's really a bad idea to have something that
look like a fatal error and says to reboot, for a user who is not expecting it.

-- System Information:
Debian Release: 5.0.3
  APT prefers stable
  APT policy: (500, 'stable')
Architecture: amd64 (x86_64)

Kernel: Linux 2.6.26-2-amd64 (SMP w/2 CPU cores)
Locale: LANG=en_CA.UTF-8, LC_CTYPE=en_CA.UTF-8 (charmap=UTF-8)
Shell: /bin/sh linked to /bin/bash

Versions of packages xscreensaver depends on:
ii  libatk1.0-0         1.22.0-1             The ATK accessibility toolkit
ii  libc6               2.7-18               GNU C Library: Shared libraries
ii  libcairo2           1.6.4-7              The Cairo 2D vector graphics libra
ii  libglade2-0         1:2.6.2-1            library to load .glade files at ru
ii  libglib2.0-0        2.16.6-2             The GLib library of C routines
ii  libgtk2.0-0         2.12.12-1~lenny1     The GTK+ graphical user interface
ii  libice6             2:1.0.4-1            X11 Inter-Client Exchange library
ii  libpam0g            1.0.1-5+lenny1       Pluggable Authentication Modules l
ii  libpango1.0-0       1.20.5-5             Layout and rendering of internatio
ii  libsm6              2:1.0.3-2            X11 Session Management library
ii  libx11-6            2:1.1.5-2            X11 client-side library
ii  libxext6            2:1.0.4-1            X11 miscellaneous extension librar
ii  libxinerama1        2:1.0.3-2            X11 Xinerama extension library
ii  libxml2             2.6.32.dfsg-5+lenny1 GNOME XML library
ii  libxmu6             2:1.0.4-1            X11 miscellaneous utility library
ii  libxpm4             1:3.5.7-1            X11 pixmap library
ii  libxrandr2          2:1.2.3-1            X11 RandR extension library
ii  libxrender1         1:0.9.4-2            X Rendering Extension client libra
ii  libxt6              1:1.0.5-3            X11 toolkit intrinsics library
ii  libxxf86misc1       1:1.0.1-3            X11 XFree86 miscellaneous extensio
ii  libxxf86vm1         1:1.0.2-1            X11 XFree86 video mode extension l
ii  xscreensaver-data   5.05-3               data files to be shared among scre

Versions of packages xscreensaver recommends:
ii  libjpeg-progs          6b-14             Programs for manipulating JPEG fil
ii  perl [perl5]           5.10.0-19lenny2   Larry Wall's Practical Extraction
ii  wamerican [wordlist]   6-2.3             American English dictionary words
ii  wcanadian-huge [wordli 6-2.3             Canadian English dictionary words
ii  xli                    1.17.0+20061110-3 command line tool for viewing imag
ii  xloadimage             4.1-16.1          Graphics file viewer under X11

Versions of packages xscreensaver suggests:
ii  elinks [www-browser]       0.11.4-3      advanced text-mode WWW browser
ii  fortune-mod [fortune]      1:1.99.1-3.1  provides fortune cookies on demand
ii  iceweasel [www-browser]    3.0.6-3       lightweight web browser based on M
ii  lynx-cur [www-browser]     2.8.7dev9-2.1 Text-mode WWW Browser with NLS sup
pn  qcam | streamer            <none>        (no description available)
ii  w3m [www-browser]          0.5.2-2+b1    WWW browsable pager with excellent
pn  xdaliclock                 <none>        (no description available)
pn  xfishtank                  <none>        (no description available)
pn  xscreensaver-gl            <none>        (no description available)

-- no debconf information

[Jose Luis Rivas-2]

reassign 553529 xscreensaver-data-extra
quit
On Sun, Nov 1, 2009 at 2:04 AM, Daniel Dickinson <crazycshore@...> wrote:

> On Sun, 1 Nov 2009 04:05:10 +0000
> "Jose Luis Rivas" <joseluis@...> wrote:
>
>> Severity 553529 wishlist
>> Quit
>>
>> Haha. This is a problem between the chair and the keyboard, this is
>> not a RC bug. ;-)
>>
>
> This isn't funny.  I have had users mistakenly reboot because they
> didn't know any better. For a *default* screensaver on a system that is
> supposed to be used by people who won't know any better, this *is* an
> RC bug.  I'm bumping the severity, and am quite willing to take this to
> the next level.
>
> If were not a *default* screensaver I wouldn't be worried, but I have
> had upset users, and I don't blame them.  Even I had a moment of panic
> the first time it happened to me.  It may be a 'joke' but it's from UI
> point of view it's RC.  It doesn't matter that the programming is
> between the chair and the keyboard rather than the computer.  It's a
> natural reaction to see the computer die badly, especially given what
> happens to Windows computers under such circumstances.

It's not a RC, it may be an *important* bug but not a RC. It's *not*
installed by default, is on xscreensaver-data-extra which you have to
manually install yourself. Again, is not installed by default.

It's a RC bug? Let's take some already big bugs that really rendered
to data loss but because of user actions: rm -rf /. [0] Even in that
case it was not a grave bug but a *wishlist* bug, because it wasn't an
issue on the app side but on the user side. It does the package make
you lose information? Or your overreaction? Yes, is the second so is
not on the package part but on the user and you can't report a bug
against an user.

Plus, is the intended behavior, the package was made on that sense,
that's what the screensaver is supposed to do. So it's not a bug but a
feature!

About why it may be an "important severity bug"
----------------------------------------------------------------------

If your reasoning is good and users overreaction to expected behavior
of the app counts as bugs then it should be important instead of
grave. The simple reason is because doesn't renders to data loss for
every the users but only to the users that are used to press reset
button before moving the mouse or pressing a key.

>
> And yes, I'm quite willing to take this the CTTE.

Well, I already asked for advice on #debian-devel and most of their
solutions was to close this bug and tell you to uninstall the package
xscreensaver-data-extra. I'm being nice and I'm willing to unmark it
by default, I never said I was not going to customize it so your users
wouldn't complain, but I'm *not* willing to receive any kind of
threats. And really, *is not even a bug!*.

[0] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/coreutils/+bug/174283
--
Jose Luis Rivas. San Cristóbal, Venezuela.
GPG 0xCACAB118 0x7C4DF50D
http://joseluisrivas.net/acerca - http://ghostbar.ath.cx/about



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[Daniel Dickinson-11]

On Sun, 1 Nov 2009 09:28:21 -0430
Jose Luis Rivas <joseluis@...> wrote:

>
> Plus, is the intended behavior, the package was made on that sense,
> that's what the screensaver is supposed to do. So it's not a bug but a
> feature!

Just because I think the issue of what consistutes intended behaviours
is an issue:  The intended behaviour of xscreensaver-data-extra is to
provide additional screensaver hacks for *user* enjoyment.  The goal of
the hack is to amuse the *user*, and as such BSOD is makes the
package buggy because it frequently causes the user to experience
anguish instead of enjoyment.  Sure it's amusing if you are expecting
it, but when a user who doesn't know that there is a screen hack that
pretends to be completely broken computer takes a break from something
important, comes back, and sees a crash, they're not *enjoying* the
experience.

Another point of what a *package* is supposed to do, is that it is
supposed to be generally usable without having to vet every options of
every screen of the package.  That would defeat the point of using
packages and and distribution over a micromanaged LFS or Gentoo
system.  If I have to go over every package, in detail, to be sure that
the maintainer hasn't got a landmine in the package for my users, I
haven't gained much by using a prepackaged distribution like Debian.

Debian isn't just for developers.

Regards,

Daniel

--
And that's my crabbing done for the day.  Got it out of the way early,
now I have the rest of the afternoon to sniff fragrant tea-roses or
strangle cute bunnies or something.   -- Michael Devore
GnuPG Key Fingerprint 86 F5 81 A5 D4 2E 1F 1C      http://gnupg.org
The C Shore (Daniel Dickinson's Website) http://cshore.is-a-geek.com

[Tormod Volden-3]

On Sun, Nov 1, 2009 at 4:08 PM, Daniel Dickinson <crazycshore@...> wrote:
> Another point of what a *package* is supposed to do, is that it is
> supposed to be generally usable without having to vet every options of
> every screen of the package.  That would defeat the point of using
> packages and and distribution over a micromanaged LFS or Gentoo
> system.  If I have to go over every package, in detail, to be sure that
> the maintainer hasn't got a landmine in the package for my users, I
> haven't gained much by using a prepackaged distribution like Debian.
>
> Debian isn't just for developers.

The -extra package is not included by any installer, so "normal users"
will not get the BSOD screensaver. They have to actively hunt it down
and install it. If they get so far, there are much worse examples of
what they can install that can be potentially dangerous if used the
wrong way. With reference to "prepackaged distribution" I do not think
we have to dumb down all packages available in the Debian repository.

This is one of the reasons we have a separate -extra package. Your
suggestion is "should not be enabled by default" and that is exactly
what we are doing by putting BSOD into -extra.

I think the huge majority of Debian users (developers or not) find
BSOD very entertaining, and they would be upset if we remove it or
make it difficult to use. And frankly, I do not think many people
panic and hit the power button without even move the mouse or press a
key (which would stop the screensaver).

Tormod



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[Jose Luis Rivas-2]

I'm already separating webcollage and bsod, don't worry. This will be uploaded probably this night. I already talked about this with Daniel.
-----Original Message-----
From: Tormod Volden <debian.tormod@...>
Date: Wed, 4 Nov 2009 15:15:50
To: Daniel Dickinson<crazycshore@...>; <553529@...>
Subject: Bug#553529: xscreensaver: Fake crash screensaver should not be  enabled by default

On Sun, Nov 1, 2009 at 4:08 PM, Daniel Dickinson <crazycshore@...> wrote:
> Another point of what a *package* is supposed to do, is that it is
> supposed to be generally usable without having to vet every options of
> every screen of the package.  That would defeat the point of using
> packages and and distribution over a micromanaged LFS or Gentoo
> system.  If I have to go over every package, in detail, to be sure that
> the maintainer hasn't got a landmine in the package for my users, I
> haven't gained much by using a prepackaged distribution like Debian.
>
> Debian isn't just for developers.

The -extra package is not included by any installer, so "normal users"
will not get the BSOD screensaver. They have to actively hunt it down
and install it. If they get so far, there are much worse examples of
what they can install that can be potentially dangerous if used the
wrong way. With reference to "prepackaged distribution" I do not think
we have to dumb down all packages available in the Debian repository.

This is one of the reasons we have a separate -extra package. Your
suggestion is "should not be enabled by default" and that is exactly
what we are doing by putting BSOD into -extra.

I think the huge majority of Debian users (developers or not) find
BSOD very entertaining, and they would be upset if we remove it or
make it difficult to use. And frankly, I do not think many people
panic and hit the power button without even move the mouse or press a
key (which would stop the screensaver).

Tormod