CAR - ldap display specifiers

Hi,

We've been having trouble getting AD server administrative tools (such
as the users and computers tool) working correctly when using a Samba
DC. The problem is that we don't have all the entries from the
CN=DisplaySpecifiers,CN=Configuration part of the ldap tree.

To work correctly for english we at minimum need all of the CN=409
entries, but we also want to work correctly with the 23 other
languages that AD supports.

The WSPP docs don't seem to contain these DisplaySpecifier
entries. The 2.2.1 table in [MS-ADTS].pdf has the mappings from the
LCID to the language, but we need the full ldif for the entries
themselves.

I think you either need to publish these as a lump of ldif (it would
be over 30k lines of ldif I think) or you need to publish an approved
tool for WSPP licensees to use to extract the DisplaySpecifier
information from a running Windows DC, and make it clear that the
output is then available to licensees under the WSPP license
terms. We'd be happy to write that tool for you if you like.

Please don't just stick it all in a PDF format in a WSPP update -
extracting large lumps of ldif back out of PDFs is pretty nasty :-)

Cheers, Tridge
_______________________________________________
cifs-protocol mailing list
cifs-protocol@...
https://lists.samba.org/mailman/listinfo/cifs-protocol

[Hongwei Sun]

Tridge,

   Thanks for your request.  We will work on it and let you know as soon as we complete the investigation.


Thanks!

--------------------------------------------------------------------
Hongwei  Sun - Sr. Support Escalation Engineer
DSC Protocol  Team, Microsoft
hongweis@...
Tel:  [phone] x 57027
---------------------------------------------------------------------

-----Original Message-----
From: tridge@... [mailto:tridge@...]
Sent: Thursday, July 02, 2009 2:15 AM
To: Interoperability Documentation Help
Cc: pfif@...; cifs-protocol@...
Subject: CAR - ldap display specifiers

Hi,

We've been having trouble getting AD server administrative tools (such
as the users and computers tool) working correctly when using a Samba
DC. The problem is that we don't have all the entries from the
CN=DisplaySpecifiers,CN=Configuration part of the ldap tree.

To work correctly for english we at minimum need all of the CN=409
entries, but we also want to work correctly with the 23 other
languages that AD supports.

The WSPP docs don't seem to contain these DisplaySpecifier
entries. The 2.2.1 table in [MS-ADTS].pdf has the mappings from the
LCID to the language, but we need the full ldif for the entries
themselves.

I think you either need to publish these as a lump of ldif (it would
be over 30k lines of ldif I think) or you need to publish an approved
tool for WSPP licensees to use to extract the DisplaySpecifier
information from a running Windows DC, and make it clear that the
output is then available to licensees under the WSPP license
terms. We'd be happy to write that tool for you if you like.

Please don't just stick it all in a PDF format in a WSPP update -
extracting large lumps of ldif back out of PDFs is pretty nasty :-)

Cheers, Tridge

_______________________________________________
cifs-protocol mailing list
cifs-protocol@...
https://lists.samba.org/mailman/listinfo/cifs-protocol

[Bill Wesse]

Good morning Tridge! I will be your contact for this issue, and expect to have some initial feedback for you within several working days.

Regards,
Bill Wesse
MCSE, MCTS / Senior Escalation Engineer, US-CSS DSC PROTOCOL TEAM
8055 Microsoft Way
Charlotte, NC 28273
TEL:  [phone]
CELL: [phone]
FAX:  [phone]


-----Original Message-----
From: tridge@... [mailto:tridge@...]
Sent: Thursday, July 02, 2009 3:15 AM
To: Interoperability Documentation Help
Cc: pfif@...; cifs-protocol@...
Subject: CAR - ldap display specifiers

Hi,

We've been having trouble getting AD server administrative tools (such
as the users and computers tool) working correctly when using a Samba
DC. The problem is that we don't have all the entries from the
CN=DisplaySpecifiers,CN=Configuration part of the ldap tree.

To work correctly for english we at minimum need all of the CN=409
entries, but we also want to work correctly with the 23 other
languages that AD supports.

The WSPP docs don't seem to contain these DisplaySpecifier
entries. The 2.2.1 table in [MS-ADTS].pdf has the mappings from the
LCID to the language, but we need the full ldif for the entries
themselves.

I think you either need to publish these as a lump of ldif (it would
be over 30k lines of ldif I think) or you need to publish an approved
tool for WSPP licensees to use to extract the DisplaySpecifier
information from a running Windows DC, and make it clear that the
output is then available to licensees under the WSPP license
terms. We'd be happy to write that tool for you if you like.

Please don't just stick it all in a PDF format in a WSPP update -
extracting large lumps of ldif back out of PDFs is pretty nasty :-)

Cheers, Tridge

_______________________________________________
cifs-protocol mailing list
cifs-protocol@...
https://lists.samba.org/mailman/listinfo/cifs-protocol

[Bill Wesse]

Good day Tridge!

I have filed a Technical Document Issue concerning your request for the AD DisplaySpecifier entry lists. This is, of course, similar to Samba's request from last August for obtaining the AD schema in a separate document. I have provided the below link to the Open Specification Support Team blog entry where the information for that request has been made available:

Using the Windows Server Protocols documentation set to better understand the Active Directory Schema
http://blogs.msdn.com/openspecification/archive/2009/06/26/using-the-windows-server-protocols-documentation-set-to-better-understand-the-active-directory-schema.aspx

As you noted in your original request, it is certainly feasible to use ldifde to get an instance of this from a running DC. In that frame of reference, I have attached "2003+2008_DisplaySpecifiers.zip[.bin]", which contains example ldif dumps for 2003 and 2008R2(RC1), using an ldifde command similar to the following:

ldifde.exe -f filename.ext -b accountName DOMAIN.NAME Password -s servername -p SubTree -d "CN=DisplaySpecifiers,CN=Configuration,DC=DOMAINNAME,DC=NAME"

The archive also contains a tab-delimited list of the existing DisplaySpecifier subtrees (in DisplaySpecifiers.txt), ordered by number (0401, 0404, etc.), with ISO 639-1 / 3166 information.

Regards,
Bill Wesse


-----Original Message-----
From: tridge@... [mailto:tridge@...]
Sent: Thursday, July 02, 2009 3:15 AM
To: Interoperability Documentation Help
Cc: pfif@...; cifs-protocol@...
Subject: CAR - ldap display specifiers

Hi,

We've been having trouble getting AD server administrative tools (such as the users and computers tool) working correctly when using a Samba DC. The problem is that we don't have all the entries from the CN=DisplaySpecifiers,CN=Configuration part of the ldap tree.

To work correctly for english we at minimum need all of the CN=409 entries, but we also want to work correctly with the 23 other languages that AD supports.

The WSPP docs don't seem to contain these DisplaySpecifier entries. The 2.2.1 table in [MS-ADTS].pdf has the mappings from the LCID to the language, but we need the full ldif for the entries themselves.

I think you either need to publish these as a lump of ldif (it would be over 30k lines of ldif I think) or you need to publish an approved tool for WSPP licensees to use to extract the DisplaySpecifier information from a running Windows DC, and make it clear that the output is then available to licensees under the WSPP license terms. We'd be happy to write that tool for you if you like.

Please don't just stick it all in a PDF format in a WSPP update - extracting large lumps of ldif back out of PDFs is pretty nasty :-)

Cheers, Tridge

Regards,
Bill Wesse
MCSE, MCTS / Senior Escalation Engineer, US-CSS DSC PROTOCOL TEAM
8055 Microsoft Way
Charlotte, NC 28273
TEL:  [phone]
CELL: [phone]
FAX:  [phone]



_______________________________________________
cifs-protocol mailing list
cifs-protocol@...
https://lists.samba.org/mailman/listinfo/cifs-protocol

Hi Hongwei,

 >    Thanks for your request.  We will work on it and let you know as
 >    soon as we complete the investigation.

Any progress on this? Would you like us to give you a tool that
produces the appropriate output in LDIF format?

Cheers, Tridge
_______________________________________________
cifs-protocol mailing list
cifs-protocol@...
https://lists.samba.org/mailman/listinfo/cifs-protocol

[Hongwei Sun]

Hi, Tridge,

   Bill is working on this CAR.   He provided a response in the attached e-mail on July 9.   Bill will continue working with you on The CAR.    

Thanks!

Hongwei

-----Original Message-----
From: tridge@... [mailto:tridge@...]
Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2009 4:37 AM
To: Hongwei Sun
Cc: Interoperability Documentation Help; cifs-protocol@...; mdw@...
Subject: RE: CAR - ldap display specifiers

Hi Hongwei,

 >    Thanks for your request.  We will work on it and let you know as
 >    soon as we complete the investigation.

Any progress on this? Would you like us to give you a tool that
produces the appropriate output in LDIF format?

Cheers, Tridge


Good day Tridge!

I have filed a Technical Document Issue concerning your request for the AD DisplaySpecifier entry lists. This is, of course, similar to Samba's request from last August for obtaining the AD schema in a separate document. I have provided the below link to the Open Specification Support Team blog entry where the information for that request has been made available:

Using the Windows Server Protocols documentation set to better understand the Active Directory Schema
http://blogs.msdn.com/openspecification/archive/2009/06/26/using-the-windows-server-protocols-documentation-set-to-better-understand-the-active-directory-schema.aspx

As you noted in your original request, it is certainly feasible to use ldifde to get an instance of this from a running DC. In that frame of reference, I have attached "2003+2008_DisplaySpecifiers.zip[.bin]", which contains example ldif dumps for 2003 and 2008R2(RC1), using an ldifde command similar to the following:

ldifde.exe -f filename.ext -b accountName DOMAIN.NAME Password -s servername -p SubTree -d "CN=DisplaySpecifiers,CN=Configuration,DC=DOMAINNAME,DC=NAME"

The archive also contains a tab-delimited list of the existing DisplaySpecifier subtrees (in DisplaySpecifiers.txt), ordered by number (0401, 0404, etc.), with ISO 639-1 / 3166 information.

Regards,
Bill Wesse


-----Original Message-----
From: tridge@... [mailto:tridge@...]
Sent: Thursday, July 02, 2009 3:15 AM
To: Interoperability Documentation Help
Cc: pfif@...; cifs-protocol@...
Subject: CAR - ldap display specifiers

Hi,

We've been having trouble getting AD server administrative tools (such as the users and computers tool) working correctly when using a Samba DC. The problem is that we don't have all the entries from the CN=DisplaySpecifiers,CN=Configuration part of the ldap tree.

To work correctly for english we at minimum need all of the CN=409 entries, but we also want to work correctly with the 23 other languages that AD supports.

The WSPP docs don't seem to contain these DisplaySpecifier entries. The 2.2.1 table in [MS-ADTS].pdf has the mappings from the LCID to the language, but we need the full ldif for the entries themselves.

I think you either need to publish these as a lump of ldif (it would be over 30k lines of ldif I think) or you need to publish an approved tool for WSPP licensees to use to extract the DisplaySpecifier information from a running Windows DC, and make it clear that the output is then available to licensees under the WSPP license terms. We'd be happy to write that tool for you if you like.

Please don't just stick it all in a PDF format in a WSPP update - extracting large lumps of ldif back out of PDFs is pretty nasty :-)

Cheers, Tridge

Regards,
Bill Wesse
MCSE, MCTS / Senior Escalation Engineer, US-CSS DSC PROTOCOL TEAM
8055 Microsoft Way
Charlotte, NC 28273
TEL:  [phone]
CELL: [phone]
FAX:  [phone]



_______________________________________________
cifs-protocol mailing list
cifs-protocol@...
https://lists.samba.org/mailman/listinfo/cifs-protocol

_______________________________________________
cifs-protocol mailing list
cifs-protocol@...
https://lists.samba.org/mailman/listinfo/cifs-protocol

Hi Bill,

Thanks for the LDIF!

Can we assume the license on this is the same as for the schema? For
the schema the version we got from MS had the license at the top,
which you can see here:

For the schema license, see this:

   http://samba.org/ftp/unpacked/samba_4_0_test/source4/setup/ad-schema/MS-AD_Schema_2K8_Classes.txt

I'm pretty sure you intend us to just use the same license, but I
thought I should check.

Cheers, Tridge
_______________________________________________
cifs-protocol mailing list
cifs-protocol@...
https://lists.samba.org/mailman/listinfo/cifs-protocol

[Bill Wesse]

You're completely welcome. The notice in the schema is not exactly the same as what is in our current document postings. For the moment, however, the below text is the notice I have been advised should apply.

I will ask for additional clarification on this today, since I think it would be *not a good idea* to make any assumptions about, given the textual discrepancies between the below and that provided in the schema.



Intellectual Property Rights Notice for Open Specifications Documentation

o Technical Documentation. Microsoft publishes Open Specifications documentation for protocols, file formats, languages, standards as well as overviews of the interaction among each of these technologies.

o Copyrights. This documentation is covered by Microsoft copyrights. Regardless of any other terms that are contained in the terms of use for the Microsoft website that hosts this documentation, you may make copies of it in order to develop implementations of the technologies described in the Open Specifications and may distribute portions of it in your implementations using these technologies or your documentation as necessary to properly document the implementation. You may also distribute in your implementation, with or without modification, any schema, IDL's, or code samples that are included in the documentation. This permission also applies to any documents that are referenced in the Open Specifications.

o No Trade Secrets. Microsoft does not claim any trade secret rights in this documentation.

o Patents. Microsoft has patents that may cover your implementations of the technologies described in the Open Specifications. Neither this notice nor Microsoft's delivery of the documentation grants any licenses under those or any other Microsoft patents. However, a given Open Specification may be covered by Microsoft's Open Specification Promise (available here: http://www.microsoft.com/interop/osp) or the Community Promise (available here: http://www.microsoft.com/interop/cp/default.mspx). If you would prefer a written license, or if the technologies described n the Open Specifications are not covered by the Open Specifications Promise or Community Promise, as applicable, patent licenses are available by contacting iplg@....

o Trademarks. The names of companies and products contained in this documentation may be covered by trademarks or similar intellectual property rights. This notice does not grant any licenses under those rights.
Reservation of Rights. All other rights are reserved, and this notice does not grant any rights other than specifically described above, whether by implication, estoppel, or otherwise.

o Tools. The Open Specifications do not require the use of Microsoft programming tools or programming environments in order for you to develop an implementation. If you have access to Microsoft programming tools and environments you are free to take advantage of them. Certain Open Specifications are intended for use in conjunction with publicly available standard specifications and network programming art, and assumes that the reader either is familiar with the aforementioned material or has immediate access to it.



Regards,
Bill Wesse
MCSE, MCTS / Senior Escalation Engineer, US-CSS DSC PROTOCOL TEAM
8055 Microsoft Way
Charlotte, NC 28273
TEL:  [phone]
CELL: [phone]
FAX:  [phone]

-----Original Message-----
From: tridge@... [mailto:tridge@...]
Sent: Friday, July 17, 2009 5:39 AM
To: Bill Wesse
Cc: cifs-protocol@...; mdw@...
Subject: RE: CAR - ldap display specifiers

Hi Bill,

Thanks for the LDIF!

Can we assume the license on this is the same as for the schema? For
the schema the version we got from MS had the license at the top,
which you can see here:

For the schema license, see this:

   http://samba.org/ftp/unpacked/samba_4_0_test/source4/setup/ad-schema/MS-AD_Schema_2K8_Classes.txt

I'm pretty sure you intend us to just use the same license, but I
thought I should check.

Cheers, Tridge

_______________________________________________
cifs-protocol mailing list
cifs-protocol@...
https://lists.samba.org/mailman/listinfo/cifs-protocol

[Bill Wesse]

Tridge - every out of band release has a unique Intellectual Property notice. So the notice that was included in the schema is unique, and pertains only to the schema release that we provided (it can be obtained on the 'Microsoft Open Specification Support Team Blog' blog at):

Using the Windows Server Protocols documentation set to better understand the Active Directory Schema
http://blogs.msdn.com/openspecification/archive/2009/06/26/using-the-windows-server-protocols-documentation-set-to-better-understand-the-active-directory-schema.aspx

Once document development has detailed the precise nature of the final data we will be supplying, an IP notice will be attached!

Regards,
Bill Wesse
MCSE, MCTS / Senior Escalation Engineer, US-CSS DSC PROTOCOL TEAM
8055 Microsoft Way
Charlotte, NC 28273
TEL:  [phone]
CELL: [phone]
FAX:  [phone]


-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Wesse
Sent: Friday, July 17, 2009 7:18 AM
To: 'tridge@...'
Cc: cifs-protocol@...; mdw@...
Subject: RE: CAR - ldap display specifiers

You're completely welcome. The notice in the schema is not exactly the same as what is in our current document postings. For the moment, however, the below text is the notice I have been advised should apply.

I will ask for additional clarification on this today, since I think it would be *not a good idea* to make any assumptions about, given the textual discrepancies between the below and that provided in the schema.



Intellectual Property Rights Notice for Open Specifications Documentation

o Technical Documentation. Microsoft publishes Open Specifications documentation for protocols, file formats, languages, standards as well as overviews of the interaction among each of these technologies.

o Copyrights. This documentation is covered by Microsoft copyrights. Regardless of any other terms that are contained in the terms of use for the Microsoft website that hosts this documentation, you may make copies of it in order to develop implementations of the technologies described in the Open Specifications and may distribute portions of it in your implementations using these technologies or your documentation as necessary to properly document the implementation. You may also distribute in your implementation, with or without modification, any schema, IDL's, or code samples that are included in the documentation. This permission also applies to any documents that are referenced in the Open Specifications.

o No Trade Secrets. Microsoft does not claim any trade secret rights in this documentation.

o Patents. Microsoft has patents that may cover your implementations of the technologies described in the Open Specifications. Neither this notice nor Microsoft's delivery of the documentation grants any licenses under those or any other Microsoft patents. However, a given Open Specification may be covered by Microsoft's Open Specification Promise (available here: http://www.microsoft.com/interop/osp) or the Community Promise (available here: http://www.microsoft.com/interop/cp/default.mspx). If you would prefer a written license, or if the technologies described n the Open Specifications are not covered by the Open Specifications Promise or Community Promise, as applicable, patent licenses are available by contacting iplg@....

o Trademarks. The names of companies and products contained in this documentation may be covered by trademarks or similar intellectual property rights. This notice does not grant any licenses under those rights.
Reservation of Rights. All other rights are reserved, and this notice does not grant any rights other than specifically described above, whether by implication, estoppel, or otherwise.

o Tools. The Open Specifications do not require the use of Microsoft programming tools or programming environments in order for you to develop an implementation. If you have access to Microsoft programming tools and environments you are free to take advantage of them. Certain Open Specifications are intended for use in conjunction with publicly available standard specifications and network programming art, and assumes that the reader either is familiar with the aforementioned material or has immediate access to it.



Regards,
Bill Wesse
MCSE, MCTS / Senior Escalation Engineer, US-CSS DSC PROTOCOL TEAM
8055 Microsoft Way
Charlotte, NC 28273
TEL:  [phone]
CELL: [phone]
FAX:  [phone]

-----Original Message-----
From: tridge@... [mailto:tridge@...]
Sent: Friday, July 17, 2009 5:39 AM
To: Bill Wesse
Cc: cifs-protocol@...; mdw@...
Subject: RE: CAR - ldap display specifiers

Hi Bill,

Thanks for the LDIF!

Can we assume the license on this is the same as for the schema? For
the schema the version we got from MS had the license at the top,
which you can see here:

For the schema license, see this:

   http://samba.org/ftp/unpacked/samba_4_0_test/source4/setup/ad-schema/MS-AD_Schema_2K8_Classes.txt

I'm pretty sure you intend us to just use the same license, but I
thought I should check.

Cheers, Tridge

_______________________________________________
cifs-protocol mailing list
cifs-protocol@...
https://lists.samba.org/mailman/listinfo/cifs-protocol

[Andrew Bartlett]

On Fri, 2009-07-17 at 07:38 -0700, Bill Wesse wrote:

> Tridge - every out of band release has a unique Intellectual Property
> notice. So the notice that was included in the schema is unique, and
> pertains only to the schema release that we provided (it can be
> obtained on the 'Microsoft Open Specification Support Team Blog' blog
> at):
>
> Using the Windows Server Protocols documentation set to better understand the Active Directory Schema
> http://blogs.msdn.com/openspecification/archive/2009/06/26/using-the-windows-server-protocols-documentation-set-to-better-understand-the-active-directory-schema.aspx
>
> Once document development has detailed the precise nature of the final data we will be supplying, an IP notice will be attached!

I'm confused.  What is the copyright licence applicable to the contents
of the zip file you just mailed?  


Andrew Bartlett
--
Andrew Bartlett
http://samba.org/~abartlet/
Authentication Developer, Samba Team           http://samba.org
Samba Developer, Cisco Inc.


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[Andrew Bartlett]

On Mon, 2009-07-20 at 18:15 +1000, Andrew Bartlett wrote:

> On Fri, 2009-07-17 at 07:38 -0700, Bill Wesse wrote:
> > Tridge - every out of band release has a unique Intellectual Property
> > notice. So the notice that was included in the schema is unique, and
> > pertains only to the schema release that we provided (it can be
> > obtained on the 'Microsoft Open Specification Support Team Blog' blog
> > at):
> >
> > Using the Windows Server Protocols documentation set to better understand the Active Directory Schema
> > http://blogs.msdn.com/openspecification/archive/2009/06/26/using-the-windows-server-protocols-documentation-set-to-better-understand-the-active-directory-schema.aspx
> >
> > Once document development has detailed the precise nature of the final data we will be supplying, an IP notice will be attached!
>
> I'm confused.  What is the copyright licence applicable to the contents
> of the zip file you just mailed?  

Also, if it is the licence you posted earlier in this thread, is this
considered 'schema'?  (Given we need to incorporate the whole file, I
need it to fall under the exception to the 'portions of' rule).

Thanks,

Andrew Bartlett
--
Andrew Bartlett
http://samba.org/~abartlet/
Authentication Developer, Samba Team           http://samba.org
Samba Developer, Cisco Inc.


_______________________________________________
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[Bill Wesse]

Good morning Andrew!

There is no copyright license for the attachments - yet; nevertheless, I expect the below text - or something like it - to apply. I cannot guarantee there will be no changes between now and when the CAR request is fulfilled. I certainly expect this will not take as long as it did with the schema.

Intellectual Property Rights Notice for Open Specifications Documentation

o Technical Documentation. Microsoft publishes Open Specifications documentation for protocols, file formats, languages, standards as well as overviews of the interaction among each of these technologies.

o Copyrights. This documentation is covered by Microsoft copyrights. Regardless of any other terms that are contained in the terms of use for the Microsoft website that hosts this documentation, you may make copies of it in order to develop implementations of the technologies described in the Open Specifications and may distribute portions of it in your implementations using these technologies or your documentation as necessary to properly document the implementation. You may also distribute in your implementation, with or without modification, any schema, IDL's, or code samples that are included in the documentation. This permission also applies to any documents that are referenced in the Open Specifications.

o No Trade Secrets. Microsoft does not claim any trade secret rights in this documentation.

o Patents. Microsoft has patents that may cover your implementations of the technologies described in the Open Specifications. Neither this notice nor Microsoft's delivery of the documentation grants any licenses under those or any other Microsoft patents. However, a given Open Specification may be covered by Microsoft's Open Specification Promise (available here: http://www.microsoft.com/interop/osp) or the Community Promise (available here: http://www.microsoft.com/interop/cp/default.mspx). If you would prefer a written license, or if the technologies described n the Open Specifications are not covered by the Open Specifications Promise or Community Promise, as applicable, patent licenses are available by contacting iplg@....

o Trademarks. The names of companies and products contained in this documentation may be covered by trademarks or similar intellectual property rights. This notice does not grant any licenses under those rights.
Reservation of Rights. All other rights are reserved, and this notice does not grant any rights other than specifically described above, whether by implication, estoppel, or otherwise.

o Tools. The Open Specifications do not require the use of Microsoft programming tools or programming environments in order for you to develop an implementation. If you have access to Microsoft programming tools and environments you are free to take advantage of them. Certain Open Specifications are intended for use in conjunction with publicly available standard specifications and network programming art, and assumes that the reader either is familiar with the aforementioned material or has immediate access to it.


Regards,
Bill Wesse
MCSE, MCTS / Senior Escalation Engineer, US-CSS DSC PROTOCOL TEAM
8055 Microsoft Way
Charlotte, NC 28273
TEL:  [phone]
CELL: [phone]
FAX:  [phone]

-----Original Message-----
From: Andrew Bartlett [mailto:abartlet@...]
Sent: Monday, July 20, 2009 7:15 AM
To: Bill Wesse
Cc: tridge@...; mdw@...; cifs-protocol@...
Subject: Re: [cifs-protocol] CAR - ldap display specifiers

On Mon, 2009-07-20 at 18:15 +1000, Andrew Bartlett wrote:

> On Fri, 2009-07-17 at 07:38 -0700, Bill Wesse wrote:
> > Tridge - every out of band release has a unique Intellectual
> > Property notice. So the notice that was included in the schema is
> > unique, and pertains only to the schema release that we provided (it
> > can be obtained on the 'Microsoft Open Specification Support Team
> > Blog' blog
> > at):
> >
> > Using the Windows Server Protocols documentation set to better
> > understand the Active Directory Schema
> > http://blogs.msdn.com/openspecification/archive/2009/06/26/using-the
> > -windows-server-protocols-documentation-set-to-better-understand-the
> > -active-directory-schema.aspx
> >
> > Once document development has detailed the precise nature of the final data we will be supplying, an IP notice will be attached!
>
> I'm confused.  What is the copyright licence applicable to the
> contents of the zip file you just mailed?

Also, if it is the licence you posted earlier in this thread, is this considered 'schema'?  (Given we need to incorporate the whole file, I need it to fall under the exception to the 'portions of' rule).

Thanks,

Andrew Bartlett
--
Andrew Bartlett
http://samba.org/~abartlet/
Authentication Developer, Samba Team           http://samba.org
Samba Developer, Cisco Inc.
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[Andrew Bartlett]

On Mon, 2009-07-20 at 06:30 -0700, Bill Wesse wrote:
> Good morning Andrew!
>
> There is no copyright license for the attachments - yet; nevertheless, I expect the below text - or something like it - to apply.

Bill,

Honestly, this really isn't very useful.  I can search against an AD
server as well as you can, as can the users who have been bugging me to
include into Samba the results of their own searches.

What we are asking for is this kind of output, but under a the
previously agreed licence, with the output defined as 'schema' (ie,
falling clearly under the inclusion exception).  

I think what we need is to get a procedure in place whereby we can get
this kind of thing released under a licence that works for both the PFIF
and Microsoft.  In particular it needs single licence, preferably the
one we have on the schema.  In particular it really does need not to be
unique per release - each new text has to be cleared by multiple Linux
vendors.

I'm sure we can work something out.

Thanks,


Andrew Bartlett

--
Andrew Bartlett
http://samba.org/~abartlet/
Authentication Developer, Samba Team           http://samba.org
Samba Developer, Cisco Inc.


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[Bill Wesse]

Good morning once again Andrew.

Our document development folks (for [MS-ADTS], [MS-ADSC] & [MS-ADA(1,2,3)]) are currently working on ldif dumps for Windows 2000 and beyond; these, of course will omit domain specific information and replication metadata.

We will provide these as soon as possible, along with licensing information, of course. I have forwarded your comments to those involved in that.

Regards,
Bill Wesse
MCSE, MCTS / Senior Escalation Engineer, US-CSS DSC PROTOCOL TEAM
8055 Microsoft Way
Charlotte, NC 28273
TEL:  [phone]
CELL: [phone]
FAX:  [phone]


-----Original Message-----
From: Andrew Bartlett [mailto:abartlet@...]
Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2009 2:57 AM
To: Bill Wesse
Cc: mdw@...; cifs-protocol@...
Subject: Re: [cifs-protocol] CAR - ldap display specifiers

On Mon, 2009-07-20 at 06:30 -0700, Bill Wesse wrote:
> Good morning Andrew!
>
> There is no copyright license for the attachments - yet; nevertheless, I expect the below text - or something like it - to apply.

Bill,

Honestly, this really isn't very useful.  I can search against an AD server as well as you can, as can the users who have been bugging me to include into Samba the results of their own searches.

What we are asking for is this kind of output, but under a the previously agreed licence, with the output defined as 'schema' (ie, falling clearly under the inclusion exception).  

I think what we need is to get a procedure in place whereby we can get this kind of thing released under a licence that works for both the PFIF and Microsoft.  In particular it needs single licence, preferably the one we have on the schema.  In particular it really does need not to be unique per release - each new text has to be cleared by multiple Linux vendors.

I'm sure we can work something out.

Thanks,


Andrew Bartlett

--
Andrew Bartlett
http://samba.org/~abartlet/
Authentication Developer, Samba Team           http://samba.org
Samba Developer, Cisco Inc.
_______________________________________________
cifs-protocol mailing list
cifs-protocol@...
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[Bill Wesse]

Good morning again - just touching bases with you concerning the ldif dumps for the display specifiers.

The ldf files have been generated, and work on the licensing agreement is in progress. As soon as we have, I will provide the ldf content to you. Here is a list of covered versions (by platform):

Windows 2000
Windows 2003
Windows 2003R2
Windows 2008
Windows 2008R2

Public posting locations are still to be determined, but I do expect clearance to make them (unofficially) available on our blog, similar to where we have posted the previous schema content:

Using the Windows Server Protocols documentation set to better understand the Active Directory Schema http://blogs.msdn.com/openspecification/archive/2009/06/26/using-the-windows-server-protocols-documentation-set-to-better-understand-the-active-directory-schema.aspx

Thanks again for your patience!

Regards,
Bill Wesse
MCSE, MCTS / Senior Escalation Engineer, US-CSS DSC PROTOCOL TEAM
8055 Microsoft Way
Charlotte, NC 28273
TEL:  [phone]
CELL: [phone]
FAX:  [phone]


-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Wesse
Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2009 11:43 AM
To: 'Andrew Bartlett'
Cc: mdw@...; cifs-protocol@...; 'tridge@...'
Subject: RE: [cifs-protocol] CAR - ldap display specifiers (SRX090713600122)

Good morning once again Andrew.

Our document development folks (for [MS-ADTS], [MS-ADSC] & [MS-ADA(1,2,3)]) are currently working on ldif dumps for Windows 2000 and beyond; these, of course will omit domain specific information and replication metadata.

We will provide these as soon as possible, along with licensing information, of course. I have forwarded your comments to those involved in that.

Regards,
Bill Wesse
MCSE, MCTS / Senior Escalation Engineer, US-CSS DSC PROTOCOL TEAM
8055 Microsoft Way
Charlotte, NC 28273
TEL:  [phone]
CELL: [phone]
FAX:  [phone]


-----Original Message-----
From: Andrew Bartlett [mailto:abartlet@...]
Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2009 2:57 AM
To: Bill Wesse
Cc: mdw@...; cifs-protocol@...
Subject: Re: [cifs-protocol] CAR - ldap display specifiers

On Mon, 2009-07-20 at 06:30 -0700, Bill Wesse wrote:
> Good morning Andrew!
>
> There is no copyright license for the attachments - yet; nevertheless, I expect the below text - or something like it - to apply.

Bill,

Honestly, this really isn't very useful.  I can search against an AD server as well as you can, as can the users who have been bugging me to include into Samba the results of their own searches.

What we are asking for is this kind of output, but under a the previously agreed licence, with the output defined as 'schema' (ie, falling clearly under the inclusion exception).  

I think what we need is to get a procedure in place whereby we can get this kind of thing released under a licence that works for both the PFIF and Microsoft.  In particular it needs single licence, preferably the one we have on the schema.  In particular it really does need not to be unique per release - each new text has to be cleared by multiple Linux vendors.

I'm sure we can work something out.

Thanks,


Andrew Bartlett

--
Andrew Bartlett
http://samba.org/~abartlet/
Authentication Developer, Samba Team           http://samba.org
Samba Developer, Cisco Inc.

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[Andrew Bartlett]

On Fri, 2009-07-24 at 06:38 -0700, Bill Wesse wrote:
> Good morning again - just touching bases with you concerning the ldif dumps for the display specifiers.
>
> The ldf files have been generated, and work on the licensing agreement is in progress. As soon as we have, I will provide the ldf content to you. Here is a list of covered versions (by platform):

This is all taking rather a long time, and is blocking us releasing the
next Samba4 alpha.

Can you please provide us with an ETA on the ldif dumps?  Should we
expect this to take just as long as the schema issue to resolve?

Thanks,

Andrew Bartlett

--
Andrew Bartlett
http://samba.org/~abartlet/
Authentication Developer, Samba Team           http://samba.org
Samba Developer, Cisco Inc.


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[Bill Wesse]

Good morning - and thanks for your patience. We are nearly complete with the property rights notice for the display specifiers ldf.

I expect to be able to make the final documents available to you within 3-5 working days!


Regards,
Bill Wesse
MCSE, MCTS / Senior Escalation Engineer, US-CSS DSC PROTOCOL TEAM
8055 Microsoft Way
Charlotte, NC 28273
TEL:  [phone]
CELL: [phone]
FAX:  [phone]


-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Wesse
Sent: Monday, July 20, 2009 9:31 AM
To: 'Andrew Bartlett'
Cc: tridge@...; mdw@...; cifs-protocol@...
Subject: RE: [cifs-protocol] CAR - ldap display specifiers

Good morning Andrew!

There is no copyright license for the attachments - yet; nevertheless, I expect the below text - or something like it - to apply. I cannot guarantee there will be no changes between now and when the CAR request is fulfilled. I certainly expect this will not take as long as it did with the schema.

Intellectual Property Rights Notice for Open Specifications Documentation

o Technical Documentation. Microsoft publishes Open Specifications documentation for protocols, file formats, languages, standards as well as overviews of the interaction among each of these technologies.

o Copyrights. This documentation is covered by Microsoft copyrights. Regardless of any other terms that are contained in the terms of use for the Microsoft website that hosts this documentation, you may make copies of it in order to develop implementations of the technologies described in the Open Specifications and may distribute portions of it in your implementations using these technologies or your documentation as necessary to properly document the implementation. You may also distribute in your implementation, with or without modification, any schema, IDL's, or code samples that are included in the documentation. This permission also applies to any documents that are referenced in the Open Specifications.

o No Trade Secrets. Microsoft does not claim any trade secret rights in this documentation.

o Patents. Microsoft has patents that may cover your implementations of the technologies described in the Open Specifications. Neither this notice nor Microsoft's delivery of the documentation grants any licenses under those or any other Microsoft patents. However, a given Open Specification may be covered by Microsoft's Open Specification Promise (available here: http://www.microsoft.com/interop/osp) or the Community Promise (available here: http://www.microsoft.com/interop/cp/default.mspx). If you would prefer a written license, or if the technologies described n the Open Specifications are not covered by the Open Specifications Promise or Community Promise, as applicable, patent licenses are available by contacting iplg@....

o Trademarks. The names of companies and products contained in this documentation may be covered by trademarks or similar intellectual property rights. This notice does not grant any licenses under those rights.
Reservation of Rights. All other rights are reserved, and this notice does not grant any rights other than specifically described above, whether by implication, estoppel, or otherwise.

o Tools. The Open Specifications do not require the use of Microsoft programming tools or programming environments in order for you to develop an implementation. If you have access to Microsoft programming tools and environments you are free to take advantage of them. Certain Open Specifications are intended for use in conjunction with publicly available standard specifications and network programming art, and assumes that the reader either is familiar with the aforementioned material or has immediate access to it.


Regards,
Bill Wesse
MCSE, MCTS / Senior Escalation Engineer, US-CSS DSC PROTOCOL TEAM
8055 Microsoft Way
Charlotte, NC 28273
TEL:  [phone]
CELL: [phone]
FAX:  [phone]

-----Original Message-----
From: Andrew Bartlett [mailto:abartlet@...]
Sent: Monday, July 20, 2009 7:15 AM
To: Bill Wesse
Cc: tridge@...; mdw@...; cifs-protocol@...
Subject: Re: [cifs-protocol] CAR - ldap display specifiers

On Mon, 2009-07-20 at 18:15 +1000, Andrew Bartlett wrote:

> On Fri, 2009-07-17 at 07:38 -0700, Bill Wesse wrote:
> > Tridge - every out of band release has a unique Intellectual
> > Property notice. So the notice that was included in the schema is
> > unique, and pertains only to the schema release that we provided (it
> > can be obtained on the 'Microsoft Open Specification Support Team
> > Blog' blog
> > at):
> >
> > Using the Windows Server Protocols documentation set to better
> > understand the Active Directory Schema
> > http://blogs.msdn.com/openspecification/archive/2009/06/26/using-the
> > -windows-server-protocols-documentation-set-to-better-understand-the
> > -active-directory-schema.aspx
> >
> > Once document development has detailed the precise nature of the final data we will be supplying, an IP notice will be attached!
>
> I'm confused.  What is the copyright licence applicable to the
> contents of the zip file you just mailed?

Also, if it is the licence you posted earlier in this thread, is this considered 'schema'?  (Given we need to incorporate the whole file, I need it to fall under the exception to the 'portions of' rule).

Thanks,

Andrew Bartlett
--
Andrew Bartlett
http://samba.org/~abartlet/
Authentication Developer, Samba Team           http://samba.org
Samba Developer, Cisco Inc.
_______________________________________________
cifs-protocol mailing list
cifs-protocol@...
https://lists.samba.org/mailman/listinfo/cifs-protocol

[Bill Wesse]

I will be out of the office on vacation, returning Monday, September 7. My colleague, Hongwei Sun will be your contact during my absence.

Regards,
Bill Wesse
MCSE, MCTS / Senior Escalation Engineer, US-CSS DSC PROTOCOL TEAM
8055 Microsoft Way
Charlotte, NC 28273
TEL:  [phone]
CELL: [phone]
FAX:  [phone]


-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Wesse
Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2009 11:30 AM
To: 'tridge@...'; 'Andrew Bartlett'
Cc: 'mdw@...'; 'cifs-protocol@...'
Subject: Status: [cifs-protocol] CAR - ldap display specifiers (SRX090713600122)

Good morning - and thanks for your patience. We are nearly complete with the property rights notice for the display specifiers ldf.

I expect to be able to make the final documents available to you within 3-5 working days!


Regards,
Bill Wesse
MCSE, MCTS / Senior Escalation Engineer, US-CSS DSC PROTOCOL TEAM
8055 Microsoft Way
Charlotte, NC 28273
TEL:  [phone]
CELL: [phone]
FAX:  [phone]


-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Wesse
Sent: Monday, July 20, 2009 9:31 AM
To: 'Andrew Bartlett'
Cc: tridge@...; mdw@...; cifs-protocol@...
Subject: RE: [cifs-protocol] CAR - ldap display specifiers

Good morning Andrew!

There is no copyright license for the attachments - yet; nevertheless, I expect the below text - or something like it - to apply. I cannot guarantee there will be no changes between now and when the CAR request is fulfilled. I certainly expect this will not take as long as it did with the schema.

Intellectual Property Rights Notice for Open Specifications Documentation

o Technical Documentation. Microsoft publishes Open Specifications documentation for protocols, file formats, languages, standards as well as overviews of the interaction among each of these technologies.

o Copyrights. This documentation is covered by Microsoft copyrights. Regardless of any other terms that are contained in the terms of use for the Microsoft website that hosts this documentation, you may make copies of it in order to develop implementations of the technologies described in the Open Specifications and may distribute portions of it in your implementations using these technologies or your documentation as necessary to properly document the implementation. You may also distribute in your implementation, with or without modification, any schema, IDL's, or code samples that are included in the documentation. This permission also applies to any documents that are referenced in the Open Specifications.

o No Trade Secrets. Microsoft does not claim any trade secret rights in this documentation.

o Patents. Microsoft has patents that may cover your implementations of the technologies described in the Open Specifications. Neither this notice nor Microsoft's delivery of the documentation grants any licenses under those or any other Microsoft patents. However, a given Open Specification may be covered by Microsoft's Open Specification Promise (available here: http://www.microsoft.com/interop/osp) or the Community Promise (available here: http://www.microsoft.com/interop/cp/default.mspx). If you would prefer a written license, or if the technologies described n the Open Specifications are not covered by the Open Specifications Promise or Community Promise, as applicable, patent licenses are available by contacting iplg@....

o Trademarks. The names of companies and products contained in this documentation may be covered by trademarks or similar intellectual property rights. This notice does not grant any licenses under those rights.
Reservation of Rights. All other rights are reserved, and this notice does not grant any rights other than specifically described above, whether by implication, estoppel, or otherwise.

o Tools. The Open Specifications do not require the use of Microsoft programming tools or programming environments in order for you to develop an implementation. If you have access to Microsoft programming tools and environments you are free to take advantage of them. Certain Open Specifications are intended for use in conjunction with publicly available standard specifications and network programming art, and assumes that the reader either is familiar with the aforementioned material or has immediate access to it.


Regards,
Bill Wesse
MCSE, MCTS / Senior Escalation Engineer, US-CSS DSC PROTOCOL TEAM
8055 Microsoft Way
Charlotte, NC 28273
TEL:  [phone]
CELL: [phone]
FAX:  [phone]

-----Original Message-----
From: Andrew Bartlett [mailto:abartlet@...]
Sent: Monday, July 20, 2009 7:15 AM
To: Bill Wesse
Cc: tridge@...; mdw@...; cifs-protocol@...
Subject: Re: [cifs-protocol] CAR - ldap display specifiers

On Mon, 2009-07-20 at 18:15 +1000, Andrew Bartlett wrote:

> On Fri, 2009-07-17 at 07:38 -0700, Bill Wesse wrote:
> > Tridge - every out of band release has a unique Intellectual
> > Property notice. So the notice that was included in the schema is
> > unique, and pertains only to the schema release that we provided (it
> > can be obtained on the 'Microsoft Open Specification Support Team
> > Blog' blog
> > at):
> >
> > Using the Windows Server Protocols documentation set to better
> > understand the Active Directory Schema
> > http://blogs.msdn.com/openspecification/archive/2009/06/26/using-the
> > -windows-server-protocols-documentation-set-to-better-understand-the
> > -active-directory-schema.aspx
> >
> > Once document development has detailed the precise nature of the final data we will be supplying, an IP notice will be attached!
>
> I'm confused.  What is the copyright licence applicable to the
> contents of the zip file you just mailed?

Also, if it is the licence you posted earlier in this thread, is this considered 'schema'?  (Given we need to incorporate the whole file, I need it to fall under the exception to the 'portions of' rule).

Thanks,

Andrew Bartlett
--
Andrew Bartlett
http://samba.org/~abartlet/
Authentication Developer, Samba Team           http://samba.org
Samba Developer, Cisco Inc.
_______________________________________________
cifs-protocol mailing list
cifs-protocol@...
https://lists.samba.org/mailman/listinfo/cifs-protocol

[Andrew Bartlett]

On Fri, 2009-08-28 at 07:48 -0700, Bill Wesse wrote:
> I will be out of the office on vacation, returning Monday, September 7. My colleague, Hongwei Sun will be your contact during my absence.

Thanks for the heads up.  But over a week ago you promised:

> Good morning - and thanks for your patience. We are nearly complete with the property rights notice for the display specifiers ldf.
>
> I expect to be able to make the final documents available to you within 3-5 working days!

I realise there is little you can do while you wait on lawyers, but I'm
worried worried:  Will the delay be this long every time we try to
clarify the release of this kind of thing?

(And we are yet to tell if the final form of the documents will be
suitable - legally or technically!).

Thanks,

Andrew Bartlett

--
Andrew Bartlett
http://samba.org/~abartlet/
Authentication Developer, Samba Team           http://samba.org
Samba Developer, Cisco Inc.


_______________________________________________
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[Bill Wesse]

I regret that the documents couldn't be delivered in the time frame I gave you - and apologize for not updating you on progress earlier this week.

Everyone I've worked with here concerning the document delivery dislikes delays. Even when necessary/obligatory diligence interferes.

I have to defer to Hongwei for the next step. Have a great weekend all!

Regards,
Bill Wesse
MCSE, MCTS / Senior Escalation Engineer, US-CSS DSC PROTOCOL TEAM
8055 Microsoft Way
Charlotte, NC 28273
TEL:  [phone]
CELL: [phone]
FAX:  [phone]

-----Original Message-----
From: Andrew Bartlett [mailto:abartlet@...]
Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 5:46 PM
To: Bill Wesse
Cc: tridge@...; mdw@...; cifs-protocol@...; Hongwei Sun
Subject: RE: Status: [cifs-protocol] CAR - ldap display specifiers (SRX090713600122)

On Fri, 2009-08-28 at 07:48 -0700, Bill Wesse wrote:
> I will be out of the office on vacation, returning Monday, September 7. My colleague, Hongwei Sun will be your contact during my absence.

Thanks for the heads up.  But over a week ago you promised:

> Good morning - and thanks for your patience. We are nearly complete with the property rights notice for the display specifiers ldf.
>
> I expect to be able to make the final documents available to you within 3-5 working days!

I realise there is little you can do while you wait on lawyers, but I'm worried worried:  Will the delay be this long every time we try to clarify the release of this kind of thing?

(And we are yet to tell if the final form of the documents will be suitable - legally or technically!).

Thanks,

Andrew Bartlett

--
Andrew Bartlett
http://samba.org/~abartlet/
Authentication Developer, Samba Team           http://samba.org
Samba Developer, Cisco Inc.
_______________________________________________
cifs-protocol mailing list
cifs-protocol@...
https://lists.samba.org/mailman/listinfo/cifs-protocol