CF Job Market

[Dave Phillips-10]

Hi all,

 

My job will be ending sometime next year due to a merger.  I'm a Senior
level CF Developer with 10+ years experience.  I am wondering what the job
market is looking like out there for us senior type CF developers with the
economy the way it is here in the US.

 

What I'm concerned about most that I see is more job descriptions asking for
mid-level and junior developers, and lower salaries for those as well.  I'm
wondering if I might have trouble finding a job when the time comes because
my salary demands would be too high and/or the employer would rather pay
someone a lower salary for less experience, thinking they are getting the
same efficiency.

 

Please share whatever your thoughts are on this topic.  I think this thread
will be useful for anyone visiting it in the next 12-18 months, so let's
really try to provide some good 'intel', if you will on the 'near future' CF
market.

 

Thanks!

 

Dave Phillips

 

 

 



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[Aaron Rouse]

I am not looking for work and have not been in a long time but I still
continue to get contacted by places looking to hire people with my skill
set.  To me it does not seem like the market has lesson any and perhaps has
even increased.  I am sure that greatly depends on where someone is located
amongst other things.

On Thu, Nov 6, 2008 at 1:03 PM, Dave Phillips <
experiencedcfdeveloper@...> wrote:

> Hi all,
>
>
>
> My job will be ending sometime next year due to a merger.  I'm a Senior
> level CF Developer with 10+ years experience.  I am wondering what the job
> market is looking like out there for us senior type CF developers with the
> economy the way it is here in the US.
>
>
>
> What I'm concerned about most that I see is more job descriptions asking
> for
> mid-level and junior developers, and lower salaries for those as well.  I'm
> wondering if I might have trouble finding a job when the time comes because
> my salary demands would be too high and/or the employer would rather pay
> someone a lower salary for less experience, thinking they are getting the
> same efficiency.
>
>
>
> Please share whatever your thoughts are on this topic.  I think this thread
> will be useful for anyone visiting it in the next 12-18 months, so let's
> really try to provide some good 'intel', if you will on the 'near future'
> CF
> market.
>
>
>
> Thanks!
>
>
>
> Dave Phillips
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

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[Matt Williams-2]

On Thu, Nov 6, 2008 at 1:03 PM, Dave Phillips
<experiencedcfdeveloper@...> wrote:
> My job will be ending sometime next year due to a merger.  I'm a Senior
> level CF Developer with 10+ years experience.  I am wondering what the job
> market is looking like out there for us senior type CF developers with the
> economy the way it is here in the US.

Just this week I began looking for a new job. I originally posted my
experience of about 10 years and listed some frameworks and front-end
stuff I've been using. The response has been good, and if I was more
willing to relocate I would be entertaining more opportunities than I
can shake a stick at.

As Dave mentioned, there have been quite a few junior / beginner
positions posted to the list lately. However, the people that have
contacted me with opportunities have not been posting to CF-Jobs,
Monster or anywhere. It seems that senior level positions are often
not posted like that, but spread through word of mouth or word of
internet.

So from what I've seen in the past 4 days is that the market is still
good, but your location and willingness to relocate may play a big
factor in the opportunities you find.

--
Matt Williams
"It's the question that drives us."

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[Daryl James]

Hi, my name is Daryl and I'm with oDesk.  I don't necessarily have a clear answer to your question on future direction, but as an outsourcing site, we generally get a good idea of trends in their early stages, so, if you're interested and wish to keep an eye on ColdFusion trends, please feel free to visit http://www.odesk.com/trends/coldfusion to see what's happening in the outsourcing marketplace as far as CF is concerned.  

Not sure if you've considered looking into other languages, but there's also a good article over on our blog about what's in demand right now and is likely to continue to be over at http://www.odesk.com/blog/2008/12/stay-employed-web-developer-skills-in-most-demand-php-ajax-mysql/.  I hope this helps.  Best of luck.
- Daryl James
oDesk

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[Ravi Gehlot]

Hello Daryl,

    I did check the web site and I see that Ruby is doing really well.
But I wonder, how does oDesk compute its trends? You also have to
consider that ColdFusion is well known in the United States but not as
much in other parts of the world. For instance, Ruby is well known in
Asia, U.S. and parts of Europe so trends for Ruby is logically higher to
those of other languages like ColdFusion. So I am curious as to how
oDesk.com is calculating its trends and what its taking into
consideration. If we take PHP into consideration, it is widely used
throughout the world so I assume that its trends are among the highest.
    Just because outsourcing is stronger for other languages does not
mean that CF is not as strong. The market for CF in the U.S. is one of
the bests and it pays really well. I know people getting paid about
100k. There are also jobs throughout the country. If you consider
outsourcing, then you may want to use PHP.

    Thanks for sharing this info though.

Just my $0.02,
Ravi.



Daryl James wrote:
> Hi, my name is Daryl and I'm with oDesk.  I don't necessarily have a clear answer to your question on future direction, but as an outsourcing site, we generally get a good idea of trends in their early stages, so, if you're interested and wish to keep an eye on ColdFusion trends, please feel free to visit http://www.odesk.com/trends/coldfusion to see what's happening in the outsourcing marketplace as far as CF is concerned.  
>
> Not sure if you've considered looking into other languages, but there's also a good article over on our blog about what's in demand right now and is likely to continue to be over at http://www.odesk.com/blog/2008/12/stay-employed-web-developer-skills-in-most-demand-php-ajax-mysql/.  I hope this helps.  Best of luck.
> - Daryl James
> oDesk
>
>

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[Kathryn Butterly]

Dave,

To get back to the original posting's question; I think you will do fine.  In my experience, limited as it is, good CF programmers, and maybe CF programmers in general, are getting fewer and fewer.  Remember when Allaire first sold out to Macromedia?  How many discussions were there that this was the end of CF, that Macromedia wouldn't support it.  Same thing when Adobe took over.  I don't see younger programmers (I'm 47) going into CF, and there are a ton of great apps out there that are written in CF, with companies behind them who love the speed and reliability of CF.  

I can code in ASP, I just hate it; to me it's Web Application programming for Dummies; do it our way, or we'll make it painful.

In a worst case scenario, I think that in 10 years' time, we might be like COBOL programmers, working in an 'out of date' technology, but making a fortune, because there are so few of us.

Just my 2 cents, before I've finished my first cup of tea!

Kathryn

>Hi all,
>
>
>
>My job will be ending sometime next year due to a merger.  I'm a Senior
>level CF Developer with 10+ years experience.  I am wondering what the job
>market is looking like out there for us senior type CF developers with the
>economy the way it is here in the US.
>
>
>
>What I'm concerned about most that I see is more job descriptions asking for
>mid-level and junior developers, and lower salaries for those as well.  I'm
>wondering if I might have trouble finding a job when the time comes because
>my salary demands would be too high and/or the employer would rather pay
>someone a lower salary for less experience, thinking they are getting the
>same efficiency.
>
>
>
>Please share whatever your thoughts are on this topic.  I think this thread
>will be useful for anyone visiting it in the next 12-18 months, so let's
>really try to provide some good 'intel', if you will on the 'near future' CF
>market.
>
>
>
>Thanks!
>
>
>
>Dave Phillips

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[Ravi Gehlot]

Dave,

    As we all know the economy is not doing so well. It does not matter
how much one can say that it is unfair to blame the economy (as I have
heard) but there have been many job cuts. Many programmers are out of
their jobs because either companies are afraid to expand or just don't
have the money to hire more work force. So there are fewer jobs and
there will be even more cuts as the next president tries to fix this
mess that the current president left (lets not get into politics here).
I will give you an example, about 2 to 3 years ago, I used to search for
CF jobs on monster.com and I would often get impressed with the amount
of available positions that that search used to return. It felt like
employers were seeking candidates at all times and everywhere. If you
try to do a search now, you will not get many jobs. You try to contact
the fewer ones left and they are already interviewing 3 to 5 other
candidates for that spot.
    Here is what I recommend you. Do not get stuck with just one
language. Regardless of its popularity, try to learn another skill. For
instance, for as much as people complain that PHP is nothing but a mess,
it is the one that offers the most jobs. If you know PHP really well
chances are that you will find a job somewhere or even an outsourced
position (Yes, people also outsource jobs to the U.S.).
    I am have been trying to learn Ruby and PHP. Why not?


Always remember: "Don't let others say you can't do just because they
can't do it"


Good Luck,
Ravi Gehlot.

>> Hi all,
>>
>>
>>
>> My job will be ending sometime next year due to a merger.  I'm a Senior
>> level CF Developer with 10+ years experience.  I am wondering what the job
>> market is looking like out there for us senior type CF developers with the
>> economy the way it is here in the US.
>>
>>
>>
>> What I'm concerned about most that I see is more job descriptions asking for
>> mid-level and junior developers, and lower salaries for those as well.  I'm
>> wondering if I might have trouble finding a job when the time comes because
>> my salary demands would be too high and/or the employer would rather pay
>> someone a lower salary for less experience, thinking they are getting the
>> same efficiency.
>>
>>
>>
>> Please share whatever your thoughts are on this topic.  I think this thread
>> will be useful for anyone visiting it in the next 12-18 months, so let's
>> really try to provide some good 'intel', if you will on the 'near future' CF
>> market.
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>>
>>
>> Dave Phillips

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[Adam Reynolds]

Or better still learn Flex/Air. Look at upcoming technologies where the
number of skilled individuals is low.

Don't go down the "I'll learn Java route" because honestly you need 3+
years commercial experience.

Ravi Gehlot wrote:

> Dave,
>
>     As we all know the economy is not doing so well. It does not matter
> how much one can say that it is unfair to blame the economy (as I have
> heard) but there have been many job cuts. Many programmers are out of
> their jobs because either companies are afraid to expand or just don't
> have the money to hire more work force. So there are fewer jobs and
> there will be even more cuts as the next president tries to fix this
> mess that the current president left (lets not get into politics here).
> I will give you an example, about 2 to 3 years ago, I used to search for
> CF jobs on monster.com and I would often get impressed with the amount
> of available positions that that search used to return. It felt like
> employers were seeking candidates at all times and everywhere. If you
> try to do a search now, you will not get many jobs. You try to contact
> the fewer ones left and they are already interviewing 3 to 5 other
> candidates for that spot.
>     Here is what I recommend you. Do not get stuck with just one
> language. Regardless of its popularity, try to learn another skill. For
> instance, for as much as people complain that PHP is nothing but a mess,
> it is the one that offers the most jobs. If you know PHP really well
> chances are that you will find a job somewhere or even an outsourced
> position (Yes, people also outsource jobs to the U.S.).
>     I am have been trying to learn Ruby and PHP. Why not?
>
>
> Always remember: "Don't let others say you can't do just because they
> can't do it"
>
>
> Good Luck,
> Ravi Gehlot.
>
>
>  
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> My job will be ending sometime next year due to a merger.  I'm a Senior
>>> level CF Developer with 10+ years experience.  I am wondering what the job
>>> market is looking like out there for us senior type CF developers with the
>>> economy the way it is here in the US.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> What I'm concerned about most that I see is more job descriptions asking for
>>> mid-level and junior developers, and lower salaries for those as well.  I'm
>>> wondering if I might have trouble finding a job when the time comes because
>>> my salary demands would be too high and/or the employer would rather pay
>>> someone a lower salary for less experience, thinking they are getting the
>>> same efficiency.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Please share whatever your thoughts are on this topic.  I think this thread
>>> will be useful for anyone visiting it in the next 12-18 months, so let's
>>> really try to provide some good 'intel', if you will on the 'near future' CF
>>> market.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Dave Phillips
>>>      
>
>

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[Ravi Gehlot]

Hello Adam,

    I couldn't agree more with you.

Ravi.



Adam Reynolds wrote:

> Or better still learn Flex/Air. Look at upcoming technologies where the
> number of skilled individuals is low.
>
> Don't go down the "I'll learn Java route" because honestly you need 3+
> years commercial experience.
>
> Ravi Gehlot wrote:
>  
>> Dave,
>>
>>     As we all know the economy is not doing so well. It does not matter
>> how much one can say that it is unfair to blame the economy (as I have
>> heard) but there have been many job cuts. Many programmers are out of
>> their jobs because either companies are afraid to expand or just don't
>> have the money to hire more work force. So there are fewer jobs and
>> there will be even more cuts as the next president tries to fix this
>> mess that the current president left (lets not get into politics here).
>> I will give you an example, about 2 to 3 years ago, I used to search for
>> CF jobs on monster.com and I would often get impressed with the amount
>> of available positions that that search used to return. It felt like
>> employers were seeking candidates at all times and everywhere. If you
>> try to do a search now, you will not get many jobs. You try to contact
>> the fewer ones left and they are already interviewing 3 to 5 other
>> candidates for that spot.
>>     Here is what I recommend you. Do not get stuck with just one
>> language. Regardless of its popularity, try to learn another skill. For
>> instance, for as much as people complain that PHP is nothing but a mess,
>> it is the one that offers the most jobs. If you know PHP really well
>> chances are that you will find a job somewhere or even an outsourced
>> position (Yes, people also outsource jobs to the U.S.).
>>     I am have been trying to learn Ruby and PHP. Why not?
>>
>>
>> Always remember: "Don't let others say you can't do just because they
>> can't do it"
>>
>>
>> Good Luck,
>> Ravi Gehlot.
>>
>>
>>  
>>    
>>>> Hi all,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> My job will be ending sometime next year due to a merger.  I'm a Senior
>>>> level CF Developer with 10+ years experience.  I am wondering what the job
>>>> market is looking like out there for us senior type CF developers with the
>>>> economy the way it is here in the US.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> What I'm concerned about most that I see is more job descriptions asking for
>>>> mid-level and junior developers, and lower salaries for those as well.  I'm
>>>> wondering if I might have trouble finding a job when the time comes because
>>>> my salary demands would be too high and/or the employer would rather pay
>>>> someone a lower salary for less experience, thinking they are getting the
>>>> same efficiency.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Please share whatever your thoughts are on this topic.  I think this thread
>>>> will be useful for anyone visiting it in the next 12-18 months, so let's
>>>> really try to provide some good 'intel', if you will on the 'near future' CF
>>>> market.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Thanks!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Dave Phillips
>>>>
>>>>        

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[Justin Scott-4]

Adam Reynolds wrote:
> Or better still learn Flex/Air. Look at upcoming technologies where the
> number of skilled individuals is low.
>
> Don't go down the "I'll learn Java route" because honestly you need 3+
> years commercial experience.

You could say that about almost any skilled position in many industries.


--
Justin Scott, http://www.tlson.com/

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[Jenny-27]

Has anyone had success, or otherwise, with sites such as Guru, Elance or
oDesk?

Jenny



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[Ravi Gehlot]

That's true. It takes about 3 to 5 years to learn a computer language
really well. I mean, 3 years of working with the language almost daily.
This is also a reason why we are suppose to get paid good money. We take
5 years of our time to be really good at a programming language. If you
think about it, every time that you take 5 years of your lifetime to
learn a computer language, you could be earning a Bachelors Degree. This
is the kind of field that you need to be on top of it or you will fall
behind quickly. You really need to love doing this thing. There are many
frustrations that come with the job and if you don't know how to work
them, you suffer.

Unless you are beginner, do not settle for anything less than 60k
especially if you have a Bachelors Degree in Computer Science,
Mathematics or Information Technology. If you have a major in Electrical
Engineering then you should be getting paid even more money.

Just my $0.02,
Ravi.




Justin Scott wrote:

> Adam Reynolds wrote:
>  
>> Or better still learn Flex/Air. Look at upcoming technologies where the
>> number of skilled individuals is low.
>>
>> Don't go down the "I'll learn Java route" because honestly you need 3+
>> years commercial experience.
>>    
>
> You could say that about almost any skilled position in many industries.
>
>
>  

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[Ravi Gehlot]

Hello Jenny,

    I used to know a person that made some money with Rent A Coder.
However, he had horrible stories to say about it. At the time, he was
living in Portugal and he wanted to make some extra money here in the
U.S. to help pay for his grandmother medications in Iowa. So Rent A
Coder seemed to be a perfect way to do that. He would bid on a project,
do the work from Portugal and get money through his PayPal account here
in the U.S. which in turn would finally end up in his grandmother's bank
account. Well, we know that countries like Portugal don't really have a
market for programmers. You don't get paid as well as you do here in the
U.S. Not even close. So, he did what he had to do to help a family
member in need. However, he would often talk to me over AIM and tell me
how frustrated he was. First of all, sites like rentacoder.com and
freelancer.com don't pay good at all and you end up having to do more
work than you previously agreed on. Sellers are often looking to
outsource to countries like India where $2 bucks an hour is a honorable
pay. Those sellers often have NO money to pay you or they think that
they can get away with paying you a couple hundred dollars for a project
worth thousands of dollars.
    Good Luck. Share your experiences here.


Thanks,
Ravi.

Jenny wrote:
> Has anyone had success, or otherwise, with sites such as Guru, Elance or
> oDesk?
>
> Jenny
>
>
>
>

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[Ennio Bozzetti]

Never... I did try once and they wanted to pay me around $200 for a project
over $1000

On Dec 22, 2008 7:11 PM, "Jenny" <jennygw@...> wrote:

Has anyone had success, or otherwise, with sites such as Guru, Elance or
oDesk?

Jenny





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[Jenny-27]

Having seen replies as expected regarding on line project sites, I'd be
interested in hearing about everyone's most popular/successful way of
finding projects.

I currently get some work through my web site www.fasttrackonline.co.uk, but
not nearly as much as i would like to see.  Traffic to my site has also
reduced considerably since the economic downturn, so I need to find other
routes to landing projects.

I'd also very much appreciate any feedback on the web site.

Thanks in advance,

Jenny



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[Scott Stewart-6]

I was on there for a bit, but kept getting out bid by someone who'll do
it for $5.00/hr.

Jenny wrote:
> Has anyone had success, or otherwise, with sites such as Guru, Elance or
> oDesk?
>
> Jenny
>
>
>
>

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[C. Hatton Humphrey]

I got one project on Rent-a-Coder that was less than encouraging.
Maybe it was my lack of experience in managing client expectations at
the time or maybe it was what this particular client had dealt with
(and gotten away with) in the past but I ended up terminating the
project before completion.

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[Ravi Gehlot]

Jenny,
   
    There are many ways to attract potential clients/projects. But
freelancing has its drawbacks as you might already know. I prefer a job
over freelancing because I get benefits and a steady pay. But back to
your question, in order for you to get more clients/projects you need to
build your presence on the Internet. It was a great idea of yours to
start your own business website. That's a great start but it will not
attract people(clients/projects) if it is not being advertised somehow.
So try to market your name or your business name (Fast Track Online).
For instance, your name(Jenny Gavin-Wear) is very powerful. Try to build
a BLOG and give people what they want. They want quality articles that
they can learn a bunch from. Try to get a domain name after your name
and build a BLOG. Thats where you will post articles and people will
read about it. If you can do that, you can build traffic. If you can
build traffic that trusts your information, you can build prospects that
may hire you later on. Take for instance my BLOG at
http://www.ravigehlot.net/ . I have been getting about 500 visits daily
just because I wrote 1 good article on SVN. My BLOG has only been around
for 3 weeks and it is already getting some attention. Yesterday, I had a
guy from France pay me $200 dollars to step up SVN for him. While, $200
dollars is not a lot of money, if more people ask me to do the same then
it will great. So blogging is one way to draw more projects/client.
However, bear in mind, put your heart into your blog.  I mean, do it
with attention to detail not just to try to make money. Do it because
you can have fun with it too. My BLOG is sort of diary where I keep
everything I have been looking at lately. Try to get on Social News
networks like Digg, DZone, Delicious, StumbleUpon, Reddit. Also try to
get on Social Networks like Facebook, Twitter, LinkedIn, MySpace and
Hi5. You will network with people that share yours interests and they
may need your services in the future.
    Another way to draw more prospects is to try to rank well on the
search engines. This falls back on Search Optimization Techniques but
being able to be found on search engines is not enough. More and more
people are not reading text. What they is to experience and try your
services. So for Fast Track Online, you should try to build demo sites
and stuff that you have been doing. People will want to go back there to
test a feature you have done. Not to read the text. The text is good for
search engines to find you.
 

Good Luck,
Ravi Gehlot



Jenny wrote:

> Having seen replies as expected regarding on line project sites, I'd be
> interested in hearing about everyone's most popular/successful way of
> finding projects.
>
> I currently get some work through my web site www.fasttrackonline.co.uk, but
> not nearly as much as i would like to see.  Traffic to my site has also
> reduced considerably since the economic downturn, so I need to find other
> routes to landing projects.
>
> I'd also very much appreciate any feedback on the web site.
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> Jenny
>
>
>
>

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[Dave Phillips-10]

Guru.com was good for me a few years ago.  Some clients post projects
looking for US only coders and therefore are willing to pay a normal hourly
range.  I picked up a client that I kept for about 2 years until she stopped
doing the business.

Dave

-----Original Message-----
From: C. Hatton Humphrey [mailto:chumphrey@...]
Sent: Monday, December 22, 2008 8:02 PM
To: cf-jobs-talk
Subject: Re: On line project site

I got one project on Rent-a-Coder that was less than encouraging.
Maybe it was my lack of experience in managing client expectations at
the time or maybe it was what this particular client had dealt with
(and gotten away with) in the past but I ended up terminating the
project before completion.



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[Ravi Gehlot]

Hatton,

    Most people who tried Rent-a-Coder complained one way or another
about payments and client expectations. I think Rent-A-Coder works
better for emerging economies and not so much for developed countries
like the United States.

Ravi.


C. Hatton Humphrey wrote:
> I got one project on Rent-a-Coder that was less than encouraging.
> Maybe it was my lack of experience in managing client expectations at
> the time or maybe it was what this particular client had dealt with
> (and gotten away with) in the past but I ended up terminating the
> project before completion.
>
>

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