CF9 with Hibernate, or still with Transfer?

[Erik-Jan Jaquet]

Hi all,

We are starting a new project and will be using CF9 and Coldbox for it.
We want to use ORM, but we are not sure i we should go for the CF9 Hibernate option, which is relatively new, or for the Transfer framework.

Do you guys have any opinions on that? Is the CF9 implementation of Hibernate stable enough? Are there many bugs? What are the advantages over using a ORM framework that we already know (Transfer)?

I would like to know what you think / would do?

Kind regards,

Erik-Jan Jaquet
Toomba

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[S. Isaac Dealey]

Hi Erik,

I'll preface my comments about ORM with two things here. First I'm not
an expert on either Transfer or Hibernate. Secondly I've been developing
another ORM system myself since ColdFusion 5. http://www.datafaucet.com 

So you know where my biases are. ;)

My gut reaction to the introduction of Hibernate when it was announced
was that I didn't expect it to have a huge impact on the ColdFusion
community. And now that it's here, I've read one or two things from
other developers who said after looking at it, that they also haven't
found it terribly compelling. Here's one that Steve Bryant wrote where
he talks about some of the specific changes in thinking that need to
occur when working with Hibernate in CF9.

http://www.bryantwebconsulting.com/blog/index.cfm/2009/9/22/DataMgr-is-Better-than-ColdFusion-ORM

One thing that spoke to me in particular was his highlight of the fact
that SQL execution doesn't happen in "real time" when using Hibernate.

"The SQL doesn't execute immediately in Hibernate, instead executing at
the end of a Hibernate "session" which almost matches a ColdFusion
request. This means you have to start thinking about Hibernate sessions."

That may or may not sound like an issue for you. To me it sounded like
an invitation for much more confusing problems to arise. And at the same
time it didn't sound to me like it solved any specific problems.

Is it a good tool? I expect so. Is it stable? I suspect so, but haven't
used it.

Will it be an improvement over Transfer? That's a harder question to
answer. I haven't yet seen anyone post any blogs describing the CF9
Hibernate implementation solving any specific problems for them. (By
this I mean problems that weren't already solved by another tool like
Transfer.) I haven't seen anyone say "oh thank heaven I have Hibernate
now!" That's not to say that nobody has, but I haven't seen it.

So long story short, if you're interested in solving a specific problem,
I would read up on Hibernate (or Reactor or DataFaucet) to see if it
solves that specific problem and if so, then go ahead and try it.
Otherwise my expectation is that it will be more productive for you in
the long-run to stick with what you already know. :)


--
s. isaac dealey :: AutLabs
Creating meaningful employment for people with Autism
http://www.autlabs.com 
ph: 817.385.0301

http://onTap.riaforge.org/blog



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[Alan Rother]

Hey Erik,

I've been playing with the hibernate implementation since the first series
of closed betas, it's pretty solid.

However... That being said, it is new and even more so, it's a new tool set
you and your team will need to learn.

In deciding if it's a right decision for you, the biggest question is, how
important is this new project and how much risk are you willing to put on
the new project?

It could work out wonderfully and save you months of time developing the
project, OR if not implemented correctly or if ORM isn't appropriate for the
project (it isn't a good choice for EVERY project, such as bulk import) it
could kill your project, or at the very least cost you a lot of time in
re-implementing the project without Hibernate.

If this is a new internal tool and you have a lot of latitude in how long it
takes to develop and your company is willing to take on some risk then I'd
say go for it. Hibernate or ORM in general is an amazing technology that CAN
make our lives a lot easier.

If this is mission critical with tight timelines and budgets, it's probably
not the right time to try a new technology.

To be fair, this is also true of moving into most new technologies, not just
ORM. You have to weigh the risk involved in learning something new against
the value of the project itself.

=]

--
Alan Rother
Adobe Certified Advanced ColdFusion MX 7 Developer
Manager, Phoenix Cold Fusion User Group, AZCFUG.org


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[Tom McNeer]

On Thu, Nov 12, 2009 at 4:04 AM, Erik-Jan Jaquet <ejjaquet@...> wrote:

> We want to use ORM, but we are not sure i we should go for the CF9
> Hibernate option, which is relatively new, or for the Transfer framework.
>

I think you want to do some googling. There are lots of posts on blogs out
there dealing with the CF9 implementation of Hibernate, and some of them
certainly touch on Transfer, since lots of folks have been using it for
years now. I think you'll find a good cross-section of what is and is not
implemented in CF9, as well as ways to use the Hibernate features that are
not directly implemented in CF.

You could also probably contact Mark Mandel, the developer of Transfer, and
get some thoughts. While you might think he'd be rabidly defensive of
Transfer, on the contrary, he has an excellent series of posts on using CF9
Hibernate. Take a look at his blog, http://www.compoundtheory.com/.



--
Thanks,

Tom

Tom McNeer
MediumCool
http://www.mediumcool.com
1735 Johnson Road NE
Atlanta, GA 30306
404.589.0560


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