Can we expect to see MySQL in NB soon?

[darrinps-2]

Are there any plans to ship NetBeans with MySQL instead of JavaDB (which I have had...well...a fair share of problems with over the last few years) now that Sun is planning to buy MySQL?

If not bundled, will it at least have better out of the box support (come with the MySQL driver, etc.)?

[Thomas Kellerer]

darrinps@... wrote on 17.01.2008 19:33:
> Are there any plans to ship NetBeans with MySQL instead of JavaDB (which I have had...well...a fair share of problems with over the last few years) now that Sun is planning to buy MySQL?
>
> If not bundled, will it at least have better out of the box support (come with the MySQL driver, etc.)?
>

I would rather see the PostgreSQL support enhanced (as Sun is selling support
for that as well)

Thomas

[PerfectReign]

On Thu, January 17, 2008 10:33 am, darrinps@... wrote:
> Are there any plans to ship NetBeans with MySQL instead of JavaDB
> (which I have had...well...a fair share of problems with over the last
> few years) now that Sun is planning to buy MySQL?
>
> If not bundled, will it at least have better out of the box support
> (come with the MySQL driver, etc.)?

Sun is buying MySQL?

Coolness!  That would be awesome to have embedded MySQL in Netbeans
available.

http://www.vnunet.com/vnunet/news/2207444/sun-buys-mysql

Sun Microsystems has agreed to acquire MySQL in a deal worth roughly
$1bn.

Sun will spend $800m to purchase all shares of the open source
database firm, plus an additional $200m to cover "options".

The vendor plans to position MySQL with its other web application
offerings and bundle the database software with its commercial
products.

MySQL will be divided among Sun's Software, Sales and Service groups,
and MySQL chief executive Martin Mickos will be given an executive
position at Sun....

[kawazu428]

Gentlemen;

PerfectReign schrieb:

>> If not bundled, will it at least have better out of the box support
>> (come with the MySQL driver, etc.)?
>
> Sun is buying MySQL?
>
> Coolness!  That would be awesome to have embedded MySQL in Netbeans
> available.

No offense, but don't you think bringing a fully-fledged SQL server with
an IDE is a bit too much over-kill? Personally, I'd rather like to see a
small, embeddable DB suitable for desktop applications as well (JavaDB
is okay here, maybe hsql or something similar to sqlite would be even
better...).

Just my €0.02, of course...
Cheers,
Kristian

[darrinps-2]

Nope.

I think it should be an option on the download, and at a minimum come with strong built in support for it.

JavaDB/Derby is fine to play with.  If that's all you want to use NetBeans for, then sure...but for more serious work having support for MySQL is a great thing.

BTW, with Oracle buying BEA, it would give Sun a strong competitor to what I bet we see with WebLogic, Oracle's IDE and Oracle DB.


---- Kristian Rink <kawazu@...> wrote:

=============
Gentlemen;

PerfectReign schrieb:

>> If not bundled, will it at least have better out of the box support
>> (come with the MySQL driver, etc.)?
>
> Sun is buying MySQL?
>
> Coolness!  That would be awesome to have embedded MySQL in Netbeans
> available.

No offense, but don't you think bringing a fully-fledged SQL server with
an IDE is a bit too much over-kill? Personally, I'd rather like to see a
small, embeddable DB suitable for desktop applications as well (JavaDB
is okay here, maybe hsql or something similar to sqlite would be even
better...).

Just my €0.02, of course...
Cheers,
Kristian

[PerfectReign]

>> No offense, but don't you think bringing a fully-fledged SQL server
>> with
>> an IDE is a bit too much over-kill? Personally, I'd rather like to see
>> a
>> small, embeddable DB suitable for desktop applications as well (JavaDB
>> is okay here, maybe hsql or something similar to sqlite would be even
>> better...).
> Nope.
>
> I think it should be an option on the download, and at a minimum come
> with strong built in support for it.
>
> JavaDB/Derby is fine to play with.  If that's all you want to use
> NetBeans for, then sure...but for more serious work having support for
> MySQL is a great thing.

Yes.  MySQL would be an asset to the netbeans development group. Think
about it - much of what makses Visual Studio easy is its tight
integration and easy manipulation of SQL Server.

Now, NetBeans could have the power of an enterprise relational
database system at the touch of a mouse.

In addition - and more what I was referring to - was the embedded
version of MySQL.  Until now, that version was out of reach. I'd much
rather use embedded MySQL than Derby, simply because it scales so well
to full-fledeged MySQL.

[Tim Alberts]

darrinps@... wrote:
> Are there any plans to ship NetBeans with MySQL instead of JavaDB (which I have had...well...a fair share of problems with over the last few years) now that Sun is planning to buy MySQL?
>
> If not bundled, will it at least have better out of the box support (come with the MySQL driver, etc.)?
>
>
>
>  
I'm pretty sure NB6 comes with a MySQL, PostgreSQL and JDBC-ODBC Bridge
driver.  The joy of Java is it doesn't matter which SQL database your
connecting to, all you're really using is JDBC.

Given that, there's no point in bundling it is there?

[darrinps-2]

I do see the driver (missed it at first) but what it doesn't have is the samples setup like they are in Derby, and it isn't integrated into the Tools like JavaDB is today.

Even if those things were there I'd still very much like to see a download option so EVERYTHING gets installed in one step.  It's kind of the reason why Glassfish is bundled.


---- Tim Alberts <talberts@...> wrote:

=============
darrinps@... wrote:
> Are there any plans to ship NetBeans with MySQL instead of JavaDB (which I have had...well...a fair share of problems with over the last few years) now that Sun is planning to buy MySQL?
>
> If not bundled, will it at least have better out of the box support (come with the MySQL driver, etc.)?
>
>
>
>  
I'm pretty sure NB6 comes with a MySQL, PostgreSQL and JDBC-ODBC Bridge
driver.  The joy of Java is it doesn't matter which SQL database your
connecting to, all you're really using is JDBC.

Given that, there's no point in bundling it is there?

[Tim Alberts]

darrinps@... wrote:
> Nope.
>
> I think it should be an option on the download, and at a minimum come with strong built in support for it.
>
> JavaDB/Derby is fine to play with.  If that's all you want to use NetBeans for, then sure...but for more serious work having support for MySQL is a great thing.
>  
'More serious work'?

So anyone who uses an embedded database in an application isn't
serious?  You might want to think about that statement you made.

[philvh]

----- Original Message ----
> From: Tim Alberts <talberts@...>
> To: nbusers@...
> Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2008 4:40:29 PM
> Subject: Re: [nbusers] Can we expect to see MySQL in NB soon?
>
> darrinps@... wrote:
> > Are there any plans to ship NetBeans with MySQL instead of
> JavaDB
>
 (which I have had...well...a fair share of problems with over the last
> few
>
 years) now that Sun is planning to buy MySQL?
> >
> > If not bundled, will it at least have better out of the box
> support
>
 (come with the MySQL driver, etc.)?
> >
> >
> >
> >  
> I'm pretty sure NB6 comes with a MySQL, PostgreSQL and JDBC-ODBC
> Bridge
>
 
> driver.  The joy of Java is it doesn't matter which SQL database your
> connecting to, all you're really using is JDBC.
>
> Given that, there's no point in bundling it is there?
>
>

I agree.  However, it would be great if Java provides more functionality in JDBC.  Such as standardize on creating databases and other administration stuffs.
Now Sun has MySQL, they're more interested in the inner working of it, and provide better Java support for all major database would be great.

I also hope of a top not database admin/client GUI in Java.  SQuirreL SQL is nice, but there are still alot to be desired.  sqldeveloper is nice, and I think most if not all of it is written in Java, but it's Oracle only.

Although setting up MySQL is easy, it would be great if it's much easier.  I just don't see why not.  It would be nice to unzip, and you have it.
Then double click to have an admin/client where you can create a database, add users, grant permission, setup to start as a service, etc., all in one place.


 




      ____________________________________________________________________________________
Never miss a thing.  Make Yahoo your home page.
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs

[Tim Alberts]

Nan Null wrote:
> I agree.  However, it would be great if Java provides more functionality in JDBC.  
I'm no expert, but seems pretty complete and standardized to me?

> Such as standardize on creating databases and other administration stuffs.
> Now Sun has MySQL, they're more interested in the inner working of it, and provide better Java support for all major database would be great.
>  
Every major database I can think of and every 'minor' database I can
think of has a JDBC driver?
> I also hope of a top not database admin/client GUI in Java.  SQuirreL SQL is nice, but there are still alot to be desired.  sqldeveloper is nice, and I think most if not all of it is written in Java, but it's Oracle only.
>  
I can't argue with you there, if you find one or write one, let me
know,  I'll use it.
> Although setting up MySQL is easy, it would be great if it's much easier.  I just don't see why not.  It would be nice to unzip, and you have it.
> Then double click to have an admin/client where you can create a database, add users, grant permission, setup to start as a service, etc., all in one place.
>  
Have you tried the GUI tools freely available for MySQL, from MySQL?  I
use them all the time, seem pretty 'point and click' user friendly.

http://dev.mysql.com/downloads/gui-tools/5.0.html

[Panagiotis Halatsakos]

Until they recreate the dbdesigner for mysql (and have it opensourced) the tools are just like the ones that java database explorer has on netbeans, sans the true mysql 5.0 tools that control the database itself (maintenance etc). Revisiting mysql's page of tools, I see that they have the .net workbench -- something that I am sure that now sun's got the biz will soon say "java" workbench (kudos + 1 point there :) )

Embedded databases ARE a pivotal software part. I should rather say embedded databases that can provide true RDBMS by themselves. It's the big difference than using an access database (which I don't like at all, and it's the thing that made me crazy about cloudscape/derby/javadb) but yet it needs a tweaking on netbeans.

Think of it simple. You don't need to rely on server database when you are dealing in a small single host program. Why would you use flat files that will slow down your performance via code and techniques to implement, while an embedded database will have a standard minimal size (the files required to run) and backed by SQL. I'd still prefer an embedded db than xml files.

On 18/01/2008, Tim Alberts <talberts@...> wrote:

Nan Null wrote:
> I agree.  However, it would be great if Java provides more functionality in JDBC.
I'm no expert, but seems pretty complete and standardized to me?

> Such as standardize on creating databases and other administration stuffs.
> Now Sun has MySQL, they're more interested in the inner working of it, and provide better Java support for all major database would be great.
>
Every major database I can think of and every 'minor' database I can
think of has a JDBC driver?
> I also hope of a top not database admin/client GUI in Java.  SQuirreL SQL is nice, but there are still alot to be desired.  sqldeveloper is nice, and I think most if not all of it is written in Java, but it's Oracle only.
>
I can't argue with you there, if you find one or write one, let me
know,  I'll use it.
> Although setting up MySQL is easy, it would be great if it's much easier.  I just don't see why not.  It would be nice to unzip, and you have it.
> Then double click to have an admin/client where you can create a database, add users, grant permission, setup to start as a service, etc., all in one place.
>
Have you tried the GUI tools freely available for MySQL, from MySQL?  I
use them all the time, seem pretty 'point and click' user friendly.

http://dev.mysql.com/downloads/gui-tools/5.0.html

[Wade Chandler]

I believe I share the same view. To me the problem with an embedded DBMS is one will undoubtedly offend those who use another, and as we can't possibly embed 2,3, + RDBMSs in the IDE to me the best answer is neither. Let the IDE ship a few libraries for client connections and provide good support, but let the developers decide those they want to use. I use Firebird more than MySQL myself.

Wade
 
==================
Wade Chandler, CCE
Software Engineer and Developer, Certified Forensic Computer Examiner, NetBeans Dream Team Member, and NetBeans Board Member
http://www.certified-computer-examiner.com
http://wiki.netbeans.org/wiki/view/NetBeansDreamTeam
http://www.netbeans.org

----- Original Message ----
From: Kristian Rink <kawazu@...>
To: nbusers@...
Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2008 4:05:29 PM
Subject: Re: [nbusers] Can we expect to see MySQL in NB soon?


Gentlemen;

PerfectReign schrieb:

>> If not bundled, will it at least have better out of the box support
>> (come with the MySQL driver, etc.)?
>
> Sun is buying MySQL?
>
> Coolness!  That would be awesome to have embedded MySQL in Netbeans
> available.

No offense, but don't you think bringing a fully-fledged SQL server
 with
an IDE is a bit too much over-kill? Personally, I'd rather like to see
 a
small, embeddable DB suitable for desktop applications as well (JavaDB
is okay here, maybe hsql or something similar to sqlite would be even
better...).

Just my €0.02, of course...
Cheers,
Kristian

[Michael Mellinger-3]

I think it's a great idea to include the full MySQL in the "All" version of the Netbeans download.  People don't have to install it.  Tomcat and Glassfish are both there, for example.  So is OpenESB. 

The Sun Developer Pack?   Of course, Sun has a developer version of OpenSolaris but this will have a broader audience.

-Mike 

On Jan 17, 2008 8:02 PM, Wade Chandler <hwadechandler-nb@...> wrote:

I believe I share the same view. To me the problem with an embedded DBMS is one will undoubtedly offend those who use another, and as we can't possibly embed 2,3, + RDBMSs in the IDE to me the best answer is neither. Let the IDE ship a few libraries for client connections and provide good support, but let the developers decide those they want to use. I use Firebird more than MySQL myself.

Wade

[Manuel Mall-2]

Some parts of this message have been removed. Learn more about Nabble's security policy.

I tend to disagree. I have MySQL installed for reasons not related to NetBeans and wouldn't like NetBeans to install a second copy or in any way touch (e.g. upgrade) my MySQL (or any other) database installs. If it is included in NetBeans it should be an optional component possibly made available through the update center.

 

Manuel

 

---

From: Michael Mellinger [mailto:mmellinger66@...]
Sent: Friday, 18 January 2008 10:58 AM
To: nbusers@...
Subject: Re: [nbusers] Can we expect to see MySQL in NB soon?

 

I think it's a great idea to include the full MySQL in the "All" version of the Netbeans download.  People don't have to install it.  Tomcat and Glassfish are both there, for example.  So is OpenESB. 

 

The Sun Developer Pack?   Of course, Sun has a developer version of OpenSolaris but this will have a broader audience.

 

-Mike 

On Jan 17, 2008 8:02 PM, Wade Chandler <hwadechandler-nb@...> wrote:

I believe I share the same view. To me the problem with an embedded DBMS is one will undoubtedly offend those who use another, and as we can't possibly embed 2,3, + RDBMSs in the IDE to me the best answer is neither. Let the IDE ship a few libraries for client connections and provide good support, but let the developers decide those they want to use. I use Firebird more than MySQL myself.

Wade

[kawazu428]

Am Thu, 17 Jan 2008 13:34:26 -0800 (PST)
schrieb "PerfectReign" <kai@...>:

> Yes.  MySQL would be an asset to the netbeans development group. Think
> about it - much of what makses Visual Studio easy is its tight
> integration and easy manipulation of SQL Server.

Which has to be purchased and installed seperately however, except for
talking about MSDE (which IMHO is closer to JavaDB than to MySQL
server).


> Now, NetBeans could have the power of an enterprise relational
> database system at the touch of a mouse.

It has. Getting your JDBC driver installed is a matter of two or three
clicks, same goes for setting a database connection. Installing an
RDBMS in a "real-world" (enterprise) environment usually is a decision
made based upon more different factors than just IDE integration.
Perhaps, having an easy way to (using something like an Update Center?)
install additional "Libraries" (JDBC drivers for different DB systems,
in example).

I generally oppose the idea of integrating so many different things to
the IDE for a simple reason: Some days ago I ceased using the NetBeans
installer and rather chose to download and install releases using
the .zip packages because usually I do want to have the "full" package
(including SOA, ...), but I already do have a local glassfish
installation which is maintained independent of NetBeans (same as my
remote testbed system). Using the NetBeans installer, I am left with
either installing base platform and manually installing SOA via Update
Center or to install _another_ glassfish (the one that comes with
NetBeans) simply to satisfy the installer dependencies. Both ways are
more work than necessary and do not serve any meaningful purpose. I

> In addition - and more what I was referring to - was the embedded
> version of MySQL.  Until now, that version was out of reach. I'd much
> rather use embedded MySQL than Derby, simply because it scales so well
> to full-fledeged MySQL.

I haven't so far dealt with embedded mySQL, however I still would vote
for Derby/JavaDB here simply because it's part of the "official" Java
installment on some platforms at least. This is a good thing in order
to build db-backed desktop applications without having to redistribute
the db runtime itself.

Cheers,
Kristian


--
Kristian Rink * http://zimmer428.net * http://flickr.com/photos/z428/
jab: kawazu@... * icq: 48874445 * fon: ++49 176 2447 2771
"One dreaming alone, it will be only a dream; many dreaming together
is the beginning of a new reality." (Hundertwasser)

[sparta0]

No offense, but don't you think bringing a fully-fledged SQL server with
an IDE is a bit too much over-kill? Personally, I'd rather like to see a
small, embeddable DB suitable for desktop applications as well (JavaDB
is okay here, maybe hsql or something similar to sqlite would be even
better...).

Seconded. I think the current JDBC driver is convenient and fair enough when accessing MySQL, i don't see any value addition bundling it with the IDE other than bloating the downloads. The NetBeans team should be left to develop and fix issues on the only IDE i need. Actual i think most features in NetBeans should come as plugins, this keeps a lean and fast IDE that has functionality the u can easily add/remove.

Sun should concentrate on improving MySQL data recovery tools, transaction management and user support so that it can penetrate deeper into the enterprise where the money is.

Just my ZWD$0.02

On 17/01/2008, Kristian Rink <kawazu@...> wrote:

Gentlemen;

PerfectReign schrieb:

>> If not bundled, will it at least have better out of the box support
>> (come with the MySQL driver, etc.)?
>
> Sun is buying MySQL?
>
> Coolness!  That would be awesome to have embedded MySQL in Netbeans
> available.

No offense, but don't you think bringing a fully-fledged SQL server with
an IDE is a bit too much over-kill? Personally, I'd rather like to see a
small, embeddable DB suitable for desktop applications as well (JavaDB
is okay here, maybe hsql or something similar to sqlite would be even
better...).

Just my €0.02, of course...
Cheers,
Kristian

--
________________________________________________

[AlexC-4]

Sipathamandla <sipatha <at> gmail.com> writes:

>
>
> No offense, but don't you think bringing a fully-fledged SQL server withan
IDE is a bit too much over-kill? Personally, I'd rather like to see a
> small, embeddable DB suitable for desktop applications as well (JavaDBis
okay here, maybe hsql or something similar to sqlite would be evenbetter...).
>
> Seconded. I think the current JDBC driver is convenient and fair enough when
accessing MySQL, i don't see any value addition bundling it with the IDE other
than bloating the downloads. The NetBeans team should be left to develop and
fix issues on the only IDE i need. Actual i think most features in NetBeans
should come as plugins, this keeps a lean and fast IDE that has functionality
the u can easily add/remove.
> Sun should concentrate on improving MySQL data recovery tools, transaction
management and user support so that it can penetrate deeper into the
enterprise where the money is.Just my ZWD$0.02
>
> On 17/01/2008, Kristian Rink <kawazu <at> zimmer428.net> wrote:
> Gentlemen;PerfectReign schrieb:>> If not bundled, will it at least have
better out of the box support>> (come with the MySQL driver, etc.)?>> Sun is
buying MySQL?>> Coolness!  That would be awesome to have embedded MySQL in
Netbeans
> > available.No offense, but don't you think bringing a fully-fledged SQL
server withan IDE is a bit too much over-kill? Personally, I'd rather like to
see asmall, embeddable DB suitable for desktop applications as well (JavaDB
> is okay here, maybe hsql or something similar to sqlite would be
evenbetter...).Just my €0.02, of course...Cheers,Kristian
>
>
> -- ________________________________________________
>


err "Thirded" - Yep please *don't* include MySQL in the IDE. It's very easy to
install separately and I can only see problems when you have an existing db.

[Glenn Holmer]

Wade Chandler wrote:
> as we can't possibly embed 2,3, + RDBMSs in the IDE to me the best
> answer is neither. Let the IDE ship a few libraries for client
> connections and provide good support, but let the developers decide
> those they want to use.

+1, we don't even use the bundled Tomcat and GlassFish, although we're
running both on our servers.  There's no point in including databases
that people probably have installed already.  One lightweight,
embeddable one like Derby (suitable for the sample programs) I can see,
but let's don't have the kitchen sink.

--
____________________________________________________________
Glenn Holmer                          gholmer@...
Software Engineer                        phone: [phone]
Weyco Group, Inc.                          fax: [phone]

[darrinps-2]

So I take it all of you folks are in favor of removing the Glassfish installation?

IMHO, if you are going to provide a database anyway, and you have access to one like MySQL, then you should allow it as an optional install instead of your only option being Derby (which I am not a fan of).

In short, why not give people the option?  I for one like an all in one download and auto configuration.



 
---- Alex <swissalex90@...> wrote:

=============
Sipathamandla <sipatha <at> gmail.com> writes:

>
>
> No offense, but don't you think bringing a fully-fledged SQL server withan
IDE is a bit too much over-kill? Personally, I'd rather like to see a
> small, embeddable DB suitable for desktop applications as well (JavaDBis
okay here, maybe hsql or something similar to sqlite would be evenbetter...).
>
> Seconded. I think the current JDBC driver is convenient and fair enough when
accessing MySQL, i don't see any value addition bundling it with the IDE other
than bloating the downloads. The NetBeans team should be left to develop and
fix issues on the only IDE i need. Actual i think most features in NetBeans
should come as plugins, this keeps a lean and fast IDE that has functionality
the u can easily add/remove.
> Sun should concentrate on improving MySQL data recovery tools, transaction
management and user support so that it can penetrate deeper into the
enterprise where the money is.Just my ZWD$0.02
>
> On 17/01/2008, Kristian Rink <kawazu <at> zimmer428.net> wrote:
> Gentlemen;PerfectReign schrieb:>> If not bundled, will it at least have
better out of the box support>> (come with the MySQL driver, etc.)?>> Sun is
buying MySQL?>> Coolness!  That would be awesome to have embedded MySQL in
Netbeans
> > available.No offense, but don't you think bringing a fully-fledged SQL
server withan IDE is a bit too much over-kill? Personally, I'd rather like to
see asmall, embeddable DB suitable for desktop applications as well (JavaDB
> is okay here, maybe hsql or something similar to sqlite would be
evenbetter...).Just my €0.02, of course...Cheers,Kristian
>
>
> -- ________________________________________________
>


err "Thirded" - Yep please *don't* include MySQL in the IDE. It's very easy to
install separately and I can only see problems when you have an existing db.