Catalyst::Controller::Rose::Simple

[Alexandre Jousset]

        Hello list,

        I just uploaded on CPAN the module :

http://search.cpan.org/dist/Catalyst-Controller-Rose-Simple/

        that makes use of Rose::* easier ith Catalyst.

        It is version 0.01, so use with care and development environment use
only. I know, documentation and tests are not very good...

        Feel free to ask me any question you want.

        Cheers,
--
--      \^/                                            --
--    -/ O \---------------------------------------    --
--   | |/ \|      Alexandre (Midnite) Jousset      |   --
--    -|___|---------------------------------------    --

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[Matt S Trout-2]

On Thu, Sep 20, 2007 at 01:16:56PM +0200, Alexandre Jousset wrote:

> Hello list,
>
> I just uploaded on CPAN the module :
>
> http://search.cpan.org/dist/Catalyst-Controller-Rose-Simple/
>
> that makes use of Rose::* easier ith Catalyst.
>
> It is version 0.01, so use with care and development environment use
> only. I know, documentation and tests are not very good...
>
> Feel free to ask me any question you want.

Why haven't you submitted patches to the existing C-C-Rose?

Any module called '-Simple' usually means "there was an existing module
that worked but I'm too lazy to patch it" - please justify why that isn't
the case here :)

--
      Matt S Trout       Need help with your Catalyst or DBIx::Class project?
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[Alexandre Jousset]

        Hello Matt,

Matt S Trout wrote:
>> Feel free to ask me any question you want.
>
> Why haven't you submitted patches to the existing C-C-Rose?
>
> Any module called '-Simple' usually means "there was an existing module
> that worked but I'm too lazy to patch it" - please justify why that isn't
> the case here :)

        Well, I wasn't meaning that kind of question but hey, I said "any
question you want" ;-)...

        Seriously, this is of course a good question, so here is my answer.

        I'm sure I haven't your experience but for me (and also for Peter
Karman, C::C::Rose author), the suffix "::Simple" (suggested by him)
means "Take all that [what already exists, i.e. Catalyst and Rose] and
make it simpler to use together".

        In fact I don't even use its modules in mine since the goals are not
the same and the functionalities don't overlap. The key point is that
you can see it as the C::C::FormBuilder module reimplemented for Rose
(and that was really the case).

        At first, on Peter's advice, I looked at C::C::Rose::* but I did not
found anything relevant for what I was trying to do.

        I hope this answer your question.

<personal message>

        I've seen you were coming to FPW2007 in Lyon, France. I'll also be
there (presenting this module) so I'm looking forward to meet you IRL ;-)

</personal message>

        Regards,
--
--      \^/                                            --
--    -/ O \---------------------------------------    --
--   | |/ \|      Alexandre (Midnite) Jousset      |   --
--    -|___|---------------------------------------    --

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[Peter Karman]

Alexandre Jousset wrote on 9/20/07 11:41 AM:

>     Hello Matt,
>
> Matt S Trout wrote:
>>>     Feel free to ask me any question you want.
>>
>> Why haven't you submitted patches to the existing C-C-Rose?
>>
>> Any module called '-Simple' usually means "there was an existing module
>> that worked but I'm too lazy to patch it" - please justify why that isn't
>> the case here :)
>
>     Well, I wasn't meaning that kind of question but hey, I said "any
> question you want" ;-)...
>
>     Seriously, this is of course a good question, so here is my answer.
>
>     I'm sure I haven't your experience but for me (and also for Peter
> Karman, C::C::Rose author), the suffix "::Simple" (suggested by him)
> means "Take all that [what already exists, i.e. Catalyst and Rose] and
> make it simpler to use together".

Alexandre,

Actually, I had suggested you use ::Simple because in your original email to me,
(a) you had indicated you intended to use C::C::Rose, but with an API similar to
the FormBuilder philosophy, and (b) you had a working title of
C::C::Rose::FormManager, which I thought would be misleading, since all the
existing C::C::Rose::* classes also manage forms.

As you indicate below, you don't use any of the C::C::Rose code, design or
philosophy, so sharing the namespace seems misleading at the very least.
So I'd prefer it if you used a difference namespace altogether. I believe the
latest best practice recommendation is to use the CatalystX top-level space.
Perhaps something like CatalystX::RHTMLOManager or similar.


>
>     In fact I don't even use its modules in mine since the goals are not
> the same and the functionalities don't overlap. The key point is that
> you can see it as the C::C::FormBuilder module reimplemented for Rose
> (and that was really the case).
>
>     At first, on Peter's advice, I looked at C::C::Rose::* but I did not
> found anything relevant for what I was trying to do.
>

I'd like to encourage you in your efforts at making the Rose projects easier to
use with Catalyst. Since you've got a different approach to what "easy" means
than I do, starting with a namespace that clearly delineates your project from
mine seems to be in your best interest.

pek

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[Alexandre Jousset]

Peter Karman a écrit :
> Alexandre Jousset wrote on 9/20/07 11:41 AM:
>>     I'm sure I haven't your experience but for me (and also for Peter
>> Karman, C::C::Rose author), the suffix "::Simple" (suggested by him)
>> means "Take all that [what already exists, i.e. Catalyst and Rose] and
>> make it simpler to use together".
 >
> Actually, I had suggested you use ::Simple because in your original
> email to me, (a) you had indicated you intended to use C::C::Rose, but
> with an API similar to the FormBuilder philosophy, and (b) you had a
> working title of C::C::Rose::FormManager, which I thought would be
> misleading, since all the existing C::C::Rose::* classes also manage forms.

        First, I am sorry to have spoken for you. I thought we were OK on that...

> As you indicate below, you don't use any of the C::C::Rose code, design
> or philosophy, so sharing the namespace seems misleading at the very least.
> So I'd prefer it if you used a difference namespace altogether. I
> believe the latest best practice recommendation is to use the CatalystX
> top-level space. Perhaps something like CatalystX::RHTMLOManager or
> similar.

        Well... I don't mind to call it something else, so now I'm just (once
again) looking for a good name. CatalystX::<Something>, ok.
CatalystX::RHTMLOManager, NOK because it also deals optionally with RDBO
and I would like to mention this fact, and I think the best way is to
use the "Rose" name.

        CatalystX::RoseIntegrator? ;-)

        My only concern is that a search on CPAN with "Catalyst" and "Rose"
should make it show up.
--
    \^/
  -/ O \----------------------------------------
| |/ \|       Alexandre (Midnite) Jousset      |
  -|___|----------------------------------------

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[Peter Karman]

On 09/21/2007 01:29 AM, Alexandre Jousset wrote:

>
>     My only concern is that a search on CPAN with "Catalyst" and "Rose"
> should make it show up.

I believe that search.cpan.org will search the content of all POD, so if you
have 'catalyst' and 'rose' in your POD anywhere, you'd get hits.

Try searching for 'brown fox' to see what I mean.
--
Peter Karman  .  peter@...  .  http://peknet.com/


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[Matt S Trout-2]

On Fri, Sep 21, 2007 at 08:29:26AM +0200, Alexandre Jousset wrote:

> Peter Karman a écrit :
> >Alexandre Jousset wrote on 9/20/07 11:41 AM:
> >>    I'm sure I haven't your experience but for me (and also for Peter
> >>Karman, C::C::Rose author), the suffix "::Simple" (suggested by him)
> >>means "Take all that [what already exists, i.e. Catalyst and Rose] and
> >>make it simpler to use together".
> >
> >Actually, I had suggested you use ::Simple because in your original
> >email to me, (a) you had indicated you intended to use C::C::Rose, but
> >with an API similar to the FormBuilder philosophy, and (b) you had a
> >working title of C::C::Rose::FormManager, which I thought would be
> >misleading, since all the existing C::C::Rose::* classes also manage forms.
>
> First, I am sorry to have spoken for you. I thought we were OK on
> that...
>
> >As you indicate below, you don't use any of the C::C::Rose code, design
> >or philosophy, so sharing the namespace seems misleading at the very least.
> >So I'd prefer it if you used a difference namespace altogether. I
> >believe the latest best practice recommendation is to use the CatalystX
> >top-level space. Perhaps something like CatalystX::RHTMLOManager or
> >similar.
>
> Well... I don't mind to call it something else, so now I'm just
> (once again) looking for a good name. CatalystX::<Something>, ok.
> CatalystX::RHTMLOManager, NOK because it also deals optionally with RDBO
> and I would like to mention this fact, and I think the best way is to
> use the "Rose" name.

I think you should just rewrite the damn thing to use Controller::Rose.

That seems like a much better idea to me since Peter Karman's code is already
pretty stable and provides most of the things you need.

Just provide a different interface on top.

Re-inventing wheels is not the Catalyst way. If you want to write everything
from scratch every time, might I recommend PHP.

--
      Matt S Trout       Need help with your Catalyst or DBIx::Class project?
   Technical Director                    http://www.shadowcat.co.uk/catalyst/
 Shadowcat Systems Ltd.  Want a managed development or deployment platform?
http://chainsawblues.vox.com/            http://www.shadowcat.co.uk/servers/

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[Alexandre Jousset]

Matt S Trout a écrit :
> I think you should just rewrite the damn thing to use Controller::Rose.
>
> That seems like a much better idea to me since Peter Karman's code is already
> pretty stable and provides most of the things you need.

        Like what?

> Just provide a different interface on top.

        The interface of my module is just what makes it useful (well, at least
for me) and was the reason of its writing.

> Re-inventing wheels is not the Catalyst way.

        Can you tell me what I reinvented exactly?

> If you want to write everything
> from scratch every time, might I recommend PHP.

        That comment really upsets me. As we are in recommendations I would
recommend some smileys somewhere.

        I just wrote this module as a convenient interface for me to use  the
other modules for a personal project. I just wanted to give this to
others. That's it!
--
    \^/
  -/ O \----------------------------------------
| |/ \|       Alexandre (Midnite) Jousset      |
  -|___|----------------------------------------

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