Comfortable Octave usage on Windows

[Bart Vandewoestyne-3]

Hello list,

I've been an octave user for quite some years now.  For my
editing, i work on Linux with vi and simply run octave from a
terminal.  I now recently switched from university.  At my new
job, i have advised my collegues to use Octave instead of Matlab
for their number-crunching... just to get rid of all the license
problems and costs that they have.

Now... slowly... some of them are trying out Octave on Windows.
However, for now, they are not convinced yet... mostly because they
are not as geekish as I am and they prefer GUI's instead of
command-line interface.

So my question is... is it possible to setup a nice
GUI-environment for Octave on Windows without too much geekish
installation effort?  I cannot expect my collegues to be skilled
linux-command-line-experts.  Their knowledge of Linux and command
line is very very limited (ls, cd, ... and that's it...)  From
what my collegues told me, the things they were missing the most
are the following (in order of importance):

* GUI with easy adding of new files, changing path, ...
* Run scripts by pressing a 'Run' button... (i know, some people
  like this ;-)
* Interactive editing of figures (colors, axes, ...)
* Interactive debugging (step into, etc...)

Does there exist a GUI/IDE for Octave on Windows that is similar
in functionality to Matlab?  If not, what is a typical good
text-editor that is being used on Windows in combination with
Octave?

Please help me in convincing my collegues! :-)

Kind regards,
Bart

--
        "Share what you know.  Learn what you don't."
_______________________________________________
Help-octave mailing list
Help-octave@...
https://www-old.cae.wisc.edu/mailman/listinfo/help-octave

[dastew]

Some parts of this message have been removed. Learn more about Nabble's security policy.

> Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2009 15:10:59 +0200
> From: Bart.Vandewoestyne@...
> To: help-octave@...
> Subject: Comfortable Octave usage on Windows
>
> Hello list,
>
> I've been an octave user for quite some years now. For my
> editing, i work on Linux with vi and simply run octave from a
> terminal. I now recently switched from university. At my new
> job, i have advised my collegues to use Octave instead of Matlab
> for their number-crunching... just to get rid of all the license
> problems and costs that they have.
>
> Now... slowly... some of them are trying out Octave on Windows.
> However, for now, they are not convinced yet... mostly because they
> are not as geekish as I am and they prefer GUI's instead of
> command-line interface.
>
> So my question is... is it possible to setup a nice
> GUI-environment for Octave on Windows without too much geekish
> installation effort? I cannot expect my collegues to be skilled
> linux-command-line-experts. Their knowledge of Linux and command
> line is very very limited (ls, cd, ... and that's it...) From
> what my collegues told me, the things they were missing the most
> are the following (in order of importance):
>
> * GUI with easy adding of new files, changing path, ...
> * Run scripts by pressing a 'Run' button... (i know, some people
> like this ;-)
> * Interactive editing of figures (colors, axes, ...)
> * Interactive debugging (step into, etc...)
>
> Does there exist a GUI/IDE for Octave on Windows that is similar
> in functionality to Matlab? If not, what is a typical good
> text-editor that is being used on Windows in combination with
> Octave?
>
> Please help me in convincing my collegues! :-)
>
> Kind regards,
> Bart
>
> -

Did you try Qtoctave?
Doug

_______________________________________________
Help-octave mailing list
Help-octave@...
https://www-old.cae.wisc.edu/mailman/listinfo/help-octave

[John W. Eaton-3]

On 27-Apr-2009, Bart Vandewoestyne wrote:

| At my new
| job, i have advised my collegues to use Octave instead of Matlab
| for their number-crunching... just to get rid of all the license
| problems and costs that they have.

If you save some money by using Octave, will you consider contributing
some of that savings to the Octave project?

jwe
_______________________________________________
Help-octave mailing list
Help-octave@...
https://www-old.cae.wisc.edu/mailman/listinfo/help-octave

[Frank Luis Enrique]

Hallo!

I faced the same problem, but it seems there is not such an interface.
Qtoctave is nice, but has the command line separated from the answer
box and I feel a little unconfortable having to click all the time on
the command line box to enter my command. Besides Qtoctave the other
projects (i.e. Octavede) are maintained irregularly.

As a plain user, I found difficult to belive that a simple GUI,
something like a notepad with a prompt, is unavailable. Anyway, for
the moment I use octave on the windows command interpreter. The
options to make this interpreter more friendly are very limited, just
a few options to change the colour of the black background and the
font size...

Perhaps my opinion may sound superficial in this mailing list,
specially when reading about the programming efforts done by many of
the members. But we must realize that having a nice GUI is important
to popularize Octave and for funding for the project as well.

Thanks for bringing the issue and please forgive my ignorance if I
said something wrong!
Luis

2009/4/27 Bart Vandewoestyne <Bart.Vandewoestyne@...>:

> Hello list,
>
> I've been an octave user for quite some years now.  For my
> editing, i work on Linux with vi and simply run octave from a
> terminal.  I now recently switched from university.  At my new
> job, i have advised my collegues to use Octave instead of Matlab
> for their number-crunching... just to get rid of all the license
> problems and costs that they have.
>
> Now... slowly... some of them are trying out Octave on Windows.
> However, for now, they are not convinced yet... mostly because they
> are not as geekish as I am and they prefer GUI's instead of
> command-line interface.
>
> So my question is... is it possible to setup a nice
> GUI-environment for Octave on Windows without too much geekish
> installation effort?  I cannot expect my collegues to be skilled
> linux-command-line-experts.  Their knowledge of Linux and command
> line is very very limited (ls, cd, ... and that's it...)  From
> what my collegues told me, the things they were missing the most
> are the following (in order of importance):
>
> * GUI with easy adding of new files, changing path, ...
> * Run scripts by pressing a 'Run' button... (i know, some people
>  like this ;-)
> * Interactive editing of figures (colors, axes, ...)
> * Interactive debugging (step into, etc...)
>
> Does there exist a GUI/IDE for Octave on Windows that is similar
> in functionality to Matlab?  If not, what is a typical good
> text-editor that is being used on Windows in combination with
> Octave?
>
> Please help me in convincing my collegues! :-)
>
> Kind regards,
> Bart
>
> --
>        "Share what you know.  Learn what you don't."
> _______________________________________________
> Help-octave mailing list
> Help-octave@...
> https://www-old.cae.wisc.edu/mailman/listinfo/help-octave
>

_______________________________________________
Help-octave mailing list
Help-octave@...
https://www-old.cae.wisc.edu/mailman/listinfo/help-octave

[John W. Eaton-3]

On 27-Apr-2009, Frank Luis Enrique wrote:

| But we must realize that having a nice GUI is important
| to popularize Octave and for funding for the project as well.

Do you think that funding will somehow magically appear if Octave has
a GUI?  Where do you expect it to come from?

jwe
_______________________________________________
Help-octave mailing list
Help-octave@...
https://www-old.cae.wisc.edu/mailman/listinfo/help-octave

[dastew]

Some parts of this message have been removed. Learn more about Nabble's security policy.

> Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2009 21:23:10 -0300
> Subject: Re: Comfortable Octave usage on Windows
> From: lfrank@...
> To: help-octave@...
>
> Hallo!
>
> I faced the same problem, but it seems there is not such an interface.
> Qtoctave is nice, but has the command line separated from the answer
> box and I feel a little unconfortable having to click all the time on
> the command line box to enter my command. Besides Qtoctave the other
> projects (i.e. Octavede) are maintained irregularly.
>

I don't think that you are using Qtoctave the correct way.
I very seldom use the prompt window. What you should be doing is starting an edit window, and typing all your  work into the "note pad like" interface. At this point you can save it to a file, or just run it right from the text window by pressing the black computer screen icon.

All my students are windows types and they like yhe qtoctave interface.


try the following sequence:

VIEW
MODE
DOCK

This is in the windows OS version and is not in the Ubuntu version.



 Try it once more.
Doug

_______________________________________________
Help-octave mailing list
Help-octave@...
https://www-old.cae.wisc.edu/mailman/listinfo/help-octave

[Tatsuro MATSUOKA-2]

Hello

--- Frank Luis Enrique  wrote:
The
> options to make this interpreter more friendly are very limited, just
> a few options to change the colour of the black background and the
> font size...

This can be done with clicking bar of the cmd windows and change property of the cmd window.

It is very nice if you check 'easy edit mode' which enable us to copy and paste process using the
right button of the mouse.  You can change font and foreground and background color, screen size,
 and scree buffer size.

MS-Windows is not always developed for users who only use GUI softwares.
The cmd comand prompt is not a poor tool as you think about.

In my opnion, with GUI supports of cmd prompt and support of Gnu readline ,which give us auto complete
future with pressing tab key, octave on windows cmd prompt is not inconvenient.


In my lecture in the university, students use octave with my customized cmd windows and
lectures goes well without problems.

Of course I wrote the detailed explanation how to use the cmd and readline functions in my lecture
note in pdf file style.

Unfortunately it is written in Japanese but not English :-(.

Regards

Tatsuro

--------------------------------------
Power up the Internet with Yahoo! Toolbar.
http://pr.mail.yahoo.co.jp/toolbar/
_______________________________________________
Help-octave mailing list
Help-octave@...
https://www-old.cae.wisc.edu/mailman/listinfo/help-octave

[Tatsuro MATSUOKA-2]

Hello

--- Tatsuro MATSUOKA  wrote:
>
> --- Frank Luis Enrique  wrote:
> The
> > options to make this interpreter more friendly are very limited, just
> > a few options to change the colour of the black background and the
> > font size...

Sorry I have misled the above.  You know that change the colour of the black background and the
> > font size...

Do you use the 'easy edit mode' ?

I forget to mention command line history also being very useful tool for octave operation.

Regards

Tatsuro

--------------------------------------
Power up the Internet with Yahoo! Toolbar.
http://pr.mail.yahoo.co.jp/toolbar/
_______________________________________________
Help-octave mailing list
Help-octave@...
https://www-old.cae.wisc.edu/mailman/listinfo/help-octave

[Frank Luis Enrique]

No, I don´t know what's the easy edit mode. Please tell me.

 What I tried to do is to write a .cmd file which opens the command
 line window, changes colours and font and invokes octave, but up to my
 knowledge the colour options are much more limited from the command
 line than from the up-left icon of the window  (just eight color for
 the background and the same for the fonts).

 I teach statistics in an Agronomy programm. My students are not very
 used to the command line, so I have t make a great effort to get them
 engaged with this interface.

 Thanks very much for your answer!
 Luis

 2009/4/28, Tatsuro MATSUOKA <tmacchant@...>:

> Hello
 >
 >
 >  --- Tatsuro MATSUOKA  wrote:
 >  >
 >  > --- Frank Luis Enrique  wrote:
 >  > The
 >  > > options to make this interpreter more friendly are very limited, just
 >  > > a few options to change the colour of the black background and the
 >  > > font size...
 >
 >
 > Sorry I have misled the above.  You know that change the colour of
the black background and the
 >  > > font size...
 >
 >  Do you use the 'easy edit mode' ?
 >
 >  I forget to mention command line history also being very useful
tool for octave operation.
 >
 >
 >  Regards
 >
 >  Tatsuro
 >
 >  --------------------------------------
 >  Power up the Internet with Yahoo! Toolbar.
 >  http://pr.mail.yahoo.co.jp/toolbar/
 >

_______________________________________________
Help-octave mailing list
Help-octave@...
https://www-old.cae.wisc.edu/mailman/listinfo/help-octave

[Frank Luis Enrique]

No, I don´t know what's the easy edit mode. Please tell me.

What I tried to do is to write a .cmd file which opens the command
line window, changes colours and font and invokes octave, but up to my
knowledge the colour options are much more limited from the command
line than from the up-left icon of the window  (just eight color for
the background and the same for the fonts).

I teach statistics in an Agronomy programm. My students are not very
used to the command line, so I have t make a great effort to get them
engaged with this interface.

Thanks very much for your answer!
Luis

2009/4/28, Tatsuro MATSUOKA <tmacchant@...>:

> Hello
>
>
>  --- Tatsuro MATSUOKA  wrote:
>  >
>  > --- Frank Luis Enrique  wrote:
>  > The
>  > > options to make this interpreter more friendly are very limited, just
>  > > a few options to change the colour of the black background and the
>  > > font size...
>
>
> Sorry I have misled the above.  You know that change the colour of the black background and the
>  > > font size...
>
>  Do you use the 'easy edit mode' ?
>
>  I forget to mention command line history also being very useful tool for octave operation.
>
>
>  Regards
>
>  Tatsuro
>
>  --------------------------------------
>  Power up the Internet with Yahoo! Toolbar.
>  http://pr.mail.yahoo.co.jp/toolbar/
>

_______________________________________________
Help-octave mailing list
Help-octave@...
https://www-old.cae.wisc.edu/mailman/listinfo/help-octave

[Frank Luis Enrique]

Dear John,

Have you ever tried to sell an ungly car with a perfectly working engine?
Luis

2009/4/27, John W. Eaton <jwe@...>:

> On 27-Apr-2009, Frank Luis Enrique wrote:
>
>  | But we must realize that having a nice GUI is important
>  | to popularize Octave and for funding for the project as well.
>
>
> Do you think that funding will somehow magically appear if Octave has
>  a GUI?  Where do you expect it to come from?
>
>
>  jwe
>

_______________________________________________
Help-octave mailing list
Help-octave@...
https://www-old.cae.wisc.edu/mailman/listinfo/help-octave

[Judd Storrs]

On Tue, Apr 28, 2009 at 12:10 PM, Frank Luis Enrique <lfrank@...> wrote:

Dear John,

Have you ever tried to sell an ungly car with a perfectly working engine?
Luis

Have you ever tried giving an ugly car with a perfectly working engine away for free?

_______________________________________________
Help-octave mailing list
Help-octave@...
https://www-old.cae.wisc.edu/mailman/listinfo/help-octave

[John W. Eaton-3]

On 28-Apr-2009, Judd Storrs wrote:

| On Tue, Apr 28, 2009 at 12:10 PM, Frank Luis Enrique <lfrank@...>wrote:
|
| > Have you ever tried to sell an ungly car with a perfectly working engine?

This still doesn't answer the question of where the funding will come
from if Octave did have a pretty GUI.  Why do you think people will
suddenly feel motivated to throw money at us if we add a GUI to
Octave?  It seems more likely to me that they would just complain that
it doesn't use their favorite GUI toolkit.  And anyway, none of the
people who have provided significant funding for Octave in the past
have ranked a GUI as a top priority.

| Have you ever tried giving an ugly car with a perfectly working engine away
| for free?

Let me guess.  People still bitch and moan about the quality of the
paint job?

jwe
_______________________________________________
Help-octave mailing list
Help-octave@...
https://www-old.cae.wisc.edu/mailman/listinfo/help-octave

[Jaroslav Hajek-2]

On Tue, Apr 28, 2009 at 6:55 PM, John W. Eaton <jwe@...> wrote:

> On 28-Apr-2009, Judd Storrs wrote:
>
> | On Tue, Apr 28, 2009 at 12:10 PM, Frank Luis Enrique <lfrank@...>wrote:
> |
> | > Have you ever tried to sell an ungly car with a perfectly working engine?
>
> This still doesn't answer the question of where the funding will come
> from if Octave did have a pretty GUI.  Why do you think people will
> suddenly feel motivated to throw money at us if we add a GUI to
> Octave?  It seems more likely to me that they would just complain that
> it doesn't use their favorite GUI toolkit.  And anyway, none of the
> people who have provided significant funding for Octave in the past
> have ranked a GUI as a top priority.
>

Besides, this is how things work in the proprietary development -
software is developed, and then users should pay for the privilege of
using it. This must be done through restrictions, both legal and
technical, because otherwise there would be no profit.

In the free software world, the most viable model works other way
around - you pay for software to be developed or feature to be
implemented, and then you can use it freely, without restrictions,
forever. If you're still missing something (say a GUI), you pay again
someone to do it, and it can be both your teen neighbor as well as a
software corporation. Or you can always do it yourself.

The idea sinks in slowly, as most new ideas do.

--
RNDr. Jaroslav Hajek
computing expert & GNU Octave developer
Aeronautical Research and Test Institute (VZLU)
Prague, Czech Republic
url: www.highegg.matfyz.cz

_______________________________________________
Help-octave mailing list
Help-octave@...
https://www-old.cae.wisc.edu/mailman/listinfo/help-octave

[John B. Thoo-2]

On Apr 28, 2009, at 9:55 AM, John W. Eaton wrote:

> On 28-Apr-2009, Judd Storrs wrote:
>
> | On Tue, Apr 28, 2009 at 12:10 PM, Frank Luis Enrique  
> <lfrank@...>wrote:
> |
> | > Have you ever tried to sell an ungly car with a perfectly  
> working engine?
>
> This still doesn't answer the question of where the funding will come
> from if Octave did have a pretty GUI.  Why do you think people will
> suddenly feel motivated to throw money at us if we add a GUI to
> Octave?  It seems more likely to me that they would just complain that
> it doesn't use their favorite GUI toolkit.  And anyway, none of the
> people who have provided significant funding for Octave in the past
> have ranked a GUI as a top priority.
>
> | Have you ever tried giving an ugly car with a perfectly working  
> engine away
> | for free?
>
> Let me guess.  People still bitch and moan about the quality of the
> paint job?
>
> jwe

Hello, everyone.

I'm a newbie to Octave.  (It's true that I've had v. 2.1.73 installed  
for donkeys years, I used it only *very* lightly for very simple  
things, mostly to obtain simple plots.  But now I have v. 3.0.5  
installed and am wanting to use Octave more fully.)  FWIW, I'm a Mac  
user and I love my GUI; however, I *like* _Octave_ *as it is*.

(Please, no flames.  I only wanted to provide another data point.) :-)

---John.
_______________________________________________
Help-octave mailing list
Help-octave@...
https://www-old.cae.wisc.edu/mailman/listinfo/help-octave

[maiky76]

Hi,

I have been using Qtoctave for one month and I love it. Let me share my 2c experience.

At my job I extensively use Matlab. I have been lobbying for a while to have more people using proper scientific software for data processing (quality department) to improve our own standard for production tracking. Basically my goal was to enable technician to process some data by themselves. I always had been told that Matlab was too expensive to make simple tasks such as standard deviation, normal distribution fitting (Excel makes people sick; I am talking about technicians not R&D engineers). I tried to introduce Octave for windows and people told me that the “Graveyard black windows” didn’t appeal to them and it was too complex to use it. Since I showed them Qtoctave, everyone is using it, liking it very much and people are modifying (improving) the tools I first gave them to better fit their own needs. It is exactly what I wanted everyone it happy and the job is better done and it’s only thanks to the GUI.

To my opinion (and I share it), for what I wanted to do the GUI is not optional. I am too young to have used DOS as OS but I can’t help thinking that computers wouldn’t have been so wide spread without Windows, another GUI.  
Another example: Linux, it’s only since GUI based distro that main retail channel put it in their computer (Asus EEEPC) as a credible Windows alternative.

As a professional I’d rather give money to the Qtoctave guy than the octave guy it’s unfair but makes more sense as to me: no GUI no Octave (whatever the shell paint job or the speed it can achieve and I don’t really care about the engine as long as it makes things moving forward).

Now you can think whatever you want about this example: it could a case in point against a GUI as I am negating a large part of what octave is standing for but it is a different point of view.

Btw, Scilab any one?

It's my first post here
Cheers
Mickael Lefebvre, MEng, MSc.
Acoustic team leader

[Jaroslav Hajek-2]

On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 5:35 AM, maiky76 <maiky76@...> wrote:

>
> Hi,
>
> I have been using Qtoctave for one month and I love it. Let me share my 2c
> experience.
>
> At my job I extensively use Matlab. I have been lobbying for a while to have
> more people using proper scientific software for data processing (quality
> department) to improve our own standard for production tracking. Basically
> my goal was to enable technician to process some data by themselves. I
> always had been told that Matlab was too expensive to make simple tasks such
> as standard deviation, normal distribution fitting (Excel makes people sick;
> I am talking about technicians not R&D engineers). I tried to introduce
> Octave for windows and people told me that the “Graveyard black windows”
> didn’t appeal to them and it was too complex to use it. Since I showed them
> Qtoctave, everyone is using it, liking it very much and people are modifying
> (improving) the tools I first gave them to better fit their own needs. It is
> exactly what I wanted everyone it happy and the job is better done and it’s
> only thanks to the GUI.
>
> To my opinion (and I share it), for what I wanted to do the GUI is not
> optional. I am too young to have used DOS as OS but I can’t help thinking
> that computers wouldn’t have been so wide spread without Windows, another
> GUI.
> Another example: Linux, it’s only since GUI based distro that main retail
> channel put it in their computer (Asus EEEPC) as a credible Windows
> alternative.
>
> As a professional I’d rather give money to the Qtoctave guy than the octave
> guy it’s unfair but makes more sense as to me: no GUI no Octave (whatever
> the shell paint job or the speed it can achieve and I don’t really care
> about the engine as long as it makes things moving forward).
>
> Now you can think whatever you want about this example: it could a case in
> point against a GUI as I am negating a large part of what octave is standing
> for but it is a different point of view.
>

Oh, but that's OK. If you're happy with Octave as it is and you mainly
care about a better GUI (QtOctave), then by all means, donate money to
QtOctave. Others may consider other things more important, so they
will contribute elsewhere, and we'll all benefit from each other's
contributions. Not that I need a GUI, but I'm still happy that some
are around. So, how much you're going to give?

cheers
--
RNDr. Jaroslav Hajek
computing expert & GNU Octave developer
Aeronautical Research and Test Institute (VZLU)
Prague, Czech Republic
url: www.highegg.matfyz.cz

_______________________________________________
Help-octave mailing list
Help-octave@...
https://www-old.cae.wisc.edu/mailman/listinfo/help-octave

[Tatsuro MATSUOKA-2]

Hello

--- maiky76  wrote:
>
> As a professional I’d rather give money to the Qtoctave guy than the octave
> guy it’s unfair but makes more sense as to me: no GUI no Octave (whatever
> the shell paint job or the speed it can achieve and I don’t really care
> about the engine as long as it makes things moving forward).
>
Qtoctave is just a skin software which enables GUI environment.
Do you want pay money to the car without engine?

Please do not confuse the discussion

Regards

Tatsuro

--------------------------------------
Power up the Internet with Yahoo! Toolbar.
http://pr.mail.yahoo.co.jp/toolbar/
_______________________________________________
Help-octave mailing list
Help-octave@...
https://www-old.cae.wisc.edu/mailman/listinfo/help-octave

[dbateman2]

maiky76 wrote:
> As a professional I’d rather give money to the Qtoctave guy than the octave
> guy it’s unfair but makes more sense as to me: no GUI no Octave (whatever
> the shell paint job or the speed it can achieve and I don’t really care
> about the engine as long as it makes things moving forward).
>
>  
Then please do give your money to QtOctave otherwise your argument is
just wind..

D.

--
David Bateman                                dbateman@...
35 rue Gambetta                              [phone] (Home)
92100 Boulogne-Billancourt FRANCE            [phone] (Mob)

_______________________________________________
Help-octave mailing list
Help-octave@...
https://www-old.cae.wisc.edu/mailman/listinfo/help-octave

[Tatsuro MATSUOKA-2]

Hello

Please ignore my previous post.

--- maiky76  wrote:
>
> As a professional I’d rather give money to the Qtoctave guy than the octave
> guy it’s unfair but makes more sense as to me: no GUI no Octave (whatever
> the shell paint job or the speed it can achieve and I don’t really care
> about the engine as long as it makes things moving forward).
>
Qtoctave is just a skin software which enables GUI environment.
Do you want pay money to the car without engine?

Of course, QtOctave is a good software which give the GUI interface to octave.
However without octave, Qtoctave is mere a box which does not give any results to you.

We can't put the octave and Qtoctave in the same arena.

Regards

Tatsuro

--------------------------------------
Power up the Internet with Yahoo! Toolbar.
http://pr.mail.yahoo.co.jp/toolbar/
_______________________________________________
Help-octave mailing list
Help-octave@...
https://www-old.cae.wisc.edu/mailman/listinfo/help-octave