Comparisons of CAN transceivers
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Comparisons of CAN transceivers
by Michael J. Noone
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Hi – I’ve had a standard transceiver, the SN65HVD251,
I’ve used in many of my designs in the past couple years. Unfortunately,
it will not work in an upcoming design as it cannot handle talking to a 3.3V CAN
controller, as it expects at least 0.7VCC for a high input and I’m
running it at 5V. So now I’m forced to look at what else is on the
market. I’m trying to find the fastest possible 5V CAN transceiver that
can handle 3.3V TXD high input. I previously have been using the SN65HVD251
which lists a max propagation delay from TXD to RXD of 150ns. Right now, the
Maxim MAX3050 is looking best to me with a propagation delay of 130ns and
support for TXDh as low as 2V. Any suggestions for anything better? I am really hoping to
avoid the Maxim part as I have had some problems with their supply chain in the
past, but currently it’s looking to be the best option. Thanks, -Michael |
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RE: Comparisons of CAN transceivers
by Steve Corrigan-2
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Michael, Take a look at the 3.3-V CAN transceivers from Texas Instruments
at ti.com. They are ideally suited to your needs and run at very low
power as compared with the Maxim part. Plus, they send you free samples –
the next day. SN65HVD230 SN65HVD231 SN65HVD232 SN65HVD233 SN65HVD234 SN65HVD235 Cheers, Steve C. From:
canlist-owner@...
[mailto:canlist-owner@...] On Behalf Of Michael
J. Noone Hi
– I’ve had a standard transceiver, the SN65HVD251, I’ve used
in many of my designs in the past couple years. Unfortunately, it will not work
in an upcoming design as it cannot handle talking to a 3.3V CAN controller, as
it expects at least 0.7VCC for a high input and I’m running it at 5V. So
now I’m forced to look at what else is on the market. I’m trying to
find the fastest possible 5V CAN transceiver that can handle 3.3V TXD high
input. I previously have been using the SN65HVD251 which lists a max
propagation delay from TXD to RXD of 150ns. Right now, the Maxim MAX3050 is
looking best to me with a propagation delay of 130ns and support for TXDh as
low as 2V. Any
suggestions for anything better? I am really hoping to avoid the Maxim part as
I have had some problems with their supply chain in the past, but currently
it’s looking to be the best option. Thanks, -Michael |
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RE: Comparisons of CAN transceivers
by Michael J. Noone
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Steve – In the past I had troubles
mixing 5V and 3.3V TI CAN transceivers. It was years ago and I never fully
investigated the problem, so I can’t really say what the cause was. Do
you see any reason to be worried about mixing CAN transceivers like this? Thanks, -Michael From: canlist-owner@...
[mailto:canlist-owner@...] On Behalf Of Steve Corrigan Michael, Take a look at the 3.3-V CAN transceivers from Texas Instruments at
ti.com. They are ideally suited to your needs and run at very low power
as compared with the Maxim part. Plus, they send you free samples –
the next day. SN65HVD230 SN65HVD231 SN65HVD232 SN65HVD233 SN65HVD234 SN65HVD235 Cheers, Steve C. From:
canlist-owner@...
[mailto:canlist-owner@...] On Behalf Of Michael J. Noone Hi – I’ve had a standard transceiver, the SN65HVD251,
I’ve used in many of my designs in the past couple years. Unfortunately,
it will not work in an upcoming design as it cannot handle talking to a 3.3V
CAN controller, as it expects at least 0.7VCC for a high input and I’m
running it at 5V. So now I’m forced to look at what else is on the
market. I’m trying to find the fastest possible 5V CAN transceiver that
can handle 3.3V TXD high input. I previously have been using the SN65HVD251
which lists a max propagation delay from TXD to RXD of 150ns. Right now, the
Maxim MAX3050 is looking best to me with a propagation delay of 130ns and
support for TXDh as low as 2V. Any suggestions for anything better? I am really hoping to avoid the
Maxim part as I have had some problems with their supply chain in the past, but
currently it’s looking to be the best option. Thanks, -Michael |
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RE: Comparisons of CAN transceivers
by Joy.George
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RE: Comparisons of CAN transceivers
by Janakiraman, Hareesh
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Why not use 3.3v CAN transceivers such as the SN65HVD232 from Texas Instruments?
Regards,
Hareesh Jana.
From: canlist-owner@... [canlist-owner@...] On Behalf Of Michael J. Noone [mnoone@...] Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 11:13 AM To: canlist@... Subject: [CANLIST] Comparisons of CAN transceivers Hi – I’ve had a standard transceiver, the SN65HVD251, I’ve used in many of my designs in the past couple years. Unfortunately, it will not work in an upcoming design as it cannot handle talking to a 3.3V CAN controller, as it expects at least 0.7VCC for a high input and I’m running it at 5V. So now I’m forced to look at what else is on the market. I’m trying to find the fastest possible 5V CAN transceiver that can handle 3.3V TXD high input. I previously have been using the SN65HVD251 which lists a max propagation delay from TXD to RXD of 150ns. Right now, the Maxim MAX3050 is looking best to me with a propagation delay of 130ns and support for TXDh as low as 2V.
Any suggestions for anything better? I am really hoping to avoid the Maxim part as I have had some problems with their supply chain in the past, but currently it’s looking to be the best option.
Thanks,
-Michael
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RE: Comparisons of CAN transceivers
by Steve Corrigan-2
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Hi Michael, I have never seen any problems in mixing them. I have both
on a bus that have been running for years without problems. They are
slightly more capacitive, but this would only become a problem (as do 5-V
transceivers) when they are “clustered” too close together on a bus
– especially when there is a distant node talking to the “cluster.”
The 3-3V devices are slightly more sensitive to this syndrome, but
that’s about it. Cheers, Steve C. From:
canlist-owner@...
[mailto:canlist-owner@...] On Behalf Of Michael
J. Noone Steve – In the past I had troubles mixing 5V and 3.3V TI CAN
transceivers. It was years ago and I never fully investigated the problem, so I
can’t really say what the cause was. Do you see any reason to be worried
about mixing CAN transceivers like this? Thanks, -Michael From:
canlist-owner@... [mailto:canlist-owner@...]
On Behalf Of Steve Corrigan Michael, Take a look at the 3.3-V CAN transceivers from Texas
Instruments at ti.com. They are ideally suited to your needs and run at
very low power as compared with the Maxim part. Plus, they send you free
samples – the next day. SN65HVD230 SN65HVD231 SN65HVD232 SN65HVD233 SN65HVD234 SN65HVD235 Cheers, Steve C. From: canlist-owner@...
[mailto:canlist-owner@...] On Behalf Of Michael
J. Noone Hi – I’ve had a standard transceiver, the
SN65HVD251, I’ve used in many of my designs in the past couple years.
Unfortunately, it will not work in an upcoming design as it cannot handle
talking to a 3.3V CAN controller, as it expects at least 0.7VCC for a high
input and I’m running it at 5V. So now I’m forced to look at what
else is on the market. I’m trying to find the fastest possible 5V CAN
transceiver that can handle 3.3V TXD high input. I previously have been using
the SN65HVD251 which lists a max propagation delay from TXD to RXD of 150ns.
Right now, the Maxim MAX3050 is looking best to me with a propagation delay of
130ns and support for TXDh as low as 2V. Any suggestions for anything better? I am really hoping to
avoid the Maxim part as I have had some problems with their supply chain in the
past, but currently it’s looking to be the best option. Thanks, -Michael |
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RE: Comparisons of CAN transceivers
by Janakiraman, Hareesh
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Joy,
You need to explain the problem/symptoms better to enable folks to help you. The fact that you are able to transmit for a while indicates that baud-rate mismatch is unlikley the problem. Could it be that one of
the nodes is going bus-off?
Hareesh Jana
Texas Instruments.
p.s: BTW, it would be a good idea to start a new thread with an appropriate subject line when you post a *new* question to the forum.
From: canlist-owner@... [canlist-owner@...] On Behalf Of Joy.George@... [Joy.George@...] Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 12:38 PM To: canlist_NOT@...; canlist@... Subject: RE: [CANLIST] Comparisons of CAN transceivers hi sir |
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Re: Comparisons of CAN transceivers
by Gerhard Uttenthaler
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CAN transceivers 5V / 3.3V
by Peter Lauer
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we have a product with a 3.3V micro / 3.3V can tranceiver. the PC CAN adapter is a 5V design. the seem to talk to each other. At high baud rates we get lots of errors, also the CAN_H signal seems to be very distorted. regards Peter |
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Re: CAN transceivers 5V / 3.3V
by Funny N.
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I do have TI 3.3V CAN transceiver works together with many other +5V CAN transceivers from different vendors. It seems no issue at all on my applications. What's your slew rate control resistor for the Transceiver? It shouldn't be a big issue for normal baud rate of 250K, but you should be able to do some test by changing it with higher baud rate, like 500K and 1M. Au Group Electronics, http://www.AuElectronics.com http://www.AuElectronics.com/products http://augroups.blogspot.com/ From: Peter Lauer <plauer@...> To: CAN List <canlist@...> Sent: Thursday, August 13, 2009 7:59:00 AM Subject: [CANLIST] CAN transceivers 5V / 3.3V how do 5V and 3.3V Can tranceiver work together? we have a product with a 3.3V micro / 3.3V can tranceiver. the PC CAN adapter is a 5V design. the seem to talk to each other. At high baud rates we get lots of errors, also the CAN_H signal seems to be very distorted. regards Peter |
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Re: Comparisons of CAN transceivers
by Funny N.
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The pro is you can use the +5V transceiver, the con is you need two voltage regulator, one for +5V, and one for +3.3V. Au Group Electronics, http://www.AuElectronics.com http://www.AuElectronics.com/products http://augroups.blogspot.com/ From: Gerhard Uttenthaler <uttenthaler@...> To: canlist@... Sent: Thursday, August 13, 2009 3:36:37 AM Subject: Re: [CANLIST] Comparisons of CAN transceivers Michael J. Noone schrieb: > Hi – I’ve had a standard transceiver, the SN65HVD251, I’ve used in many > of my designs in the past couple years. Unfortunately, it will not work > in an upcoming design as it cannot handle talking to a 3.3V CAN > controller, as it expects at least 0.7VCC for a high input and I’m > running it at 5V. So now I’m forced to look at what else is on the > market. I’m trying to find the fastest possible 5V CAN transceiver that > can handle 3.3V TXD high input. I previously have been using the > SN65HVD251 which lists a max propagation delay from TXD to RXD of 150ns. > Right now, the Maxim MAX3050 is looking best to me with a propagation > delay of 130ns and support for TXDh as low as 2V. > > > > Any suggestions for anything better? I am really hoping to avoid the > Maxim part as I have had some problems with their supply chain in the > past, but currently it’s looking to be the best option. > > > > Thanks, > > > > -Michael > > > > > if you want to keep your SN65HVD251, you may think of using a single gate logic chip like the 74HCT1G32 for the transceivers TX signal. Let it be powered by 5V, it can drive the SN65HVD251 while accepting the 3V high level of the CAN controller. Regards Gerhard Uttenthaler -- EMS Dr. Thomas Wuensche e.K. Sonnenhang 3 85304 Ilmmuenster HRA Neuburg a.d. Donau, HR-Nr. 70.106 Phone: +49-8441-490260 Fax : +49-8441-81860 http://www.ems-wuensche.com -- Archives and useful links: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CANbus Subscribe and unsubscribe at www.vector-informatik.com/canlist/ Report any problems to <canlist-owner@...> |
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RE: CAN transceivers 5V / 3.3V - Levels
by Peter Lauer
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This could be the cause of the maringal performance I see at 500Kb. regards Peter Email von Peter Lauer plauer@... Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 06:44:14 -0700 From: funnynypd@... Subject: Re: [CANLIST] CAN transceivers 5V / 3.3V To: canlist@... I do have TI 3.3V CAN transceiver works together with many other +5V CAN transceivers from different vendors. It seems no issue at all on my applications. What's your slew rate control resistor for the Transceiver? It shouldn't be a big issue for normal baud rate of 250K, but you should be able to do some test by changing it with higher baud rate, like 500K and 1M. Au Group Electronics, http://www.AuElectronics.com http://www.AuElectronics.com/products http://augroups.blogspot.com/ From: Peter Lauer <plauer@...> To: CAN List <canlist@...> Sent: Thursday, August 13, 2009 7:59:00 AM Subject: [CANLIST] CAN transceivers 5V / 3.3V how do 5V and 3.3V Can tranceiver work together? we have a product with a 3.3V micro / 3.3V can tranceiver. the PC CAN adapter is a 5V design. the seem to talk to each other. At high baud rates we get lots of errors, also the CAN_H signal seems to be very distorted. regards Peter |
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RE: CAN transceivers 5V / 3.3V - Levels
by Steve Corrigan-2
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Wow, that must be a magic transceiver to get 5-V levels with a
5-V supply. Hang on to that one. Mine typically get 3.5 V with app.
2V differential. That’s way more noise margin than I need. Regards, Steve C. From:
canlist-owner@...
[mailto:canlist-owner@...] On Behalf Of Peter
Lauer how
is this actually? looks to me that the 'off' voltage is 2.5V, when the 3.3V
transceiver wants to send a 'on' he can only pull the level to 3.3V, a 0.8V
level shift. that'n not a lot to load the the line capacity. The 5.0V
receiver is used to a 2.5V level shift (5V-2.5V). Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 06:44:14 -0700 I do have TI
3.3V CAN transceiver works together with many other +5V CAN transceivers from
different vendors. It seems no issue at all on my applications. Funny N. From: Peter Lauer
<plauer@...> |
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Re: CAN transceivers 5V / 3.3V - Levels
by Funny N.
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>Mine typically get 3.5 V with app. 2V differential. Indeed. This is also the typical requirement for SAE J1939. See the charts in following links for reference: http://www.auelectronics.com/forum/index.php/topic,41.msg106/topicseen.html#msg106 At dominant state:A typical CAN_H is about 3.5V, and a typical CAN_L is about 1.5V. At recessive state: the CAN_H and CAN_L are both at the same voltage level and should be about 2.5V. Au Group Electronics, http://www.AuElectronics.com http://www.AuElectronics.com/products http://augroups.blogspot.com/ From: Steve Corrigan <steve.corrigan@...> To: canlist@... Sent: Thursday, August 13, 2009 11:49:36 AM Subject: RE: [CANLIST] CAN transceivers 5V / 3.3V - Levels Wow, that must be a magic transceiver to get 5-V levels with a 5-V supply. Hang on to that one. Mine typically get 3.5 V with app. 2V differential. That’s way more noise margin than I need.
Regards, Steve C.
From: canlist-owner@... [mailto:canlist-owner@...] On Behalf Of Peter Lauer
how is this actually? looks to me that the 'off' voltage is 2.5V, when the 3.3V transceiver wants to send a 'on' he can only pull the level to 3.3V, a 0.8V level shift. that'n not a lot to load the the line capacity. The 5.0V receiver is used to a 2.5V level shift
(5V-2.5V). Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 06:44:14 -0700 I do have TI 3.3V CAN transceiver works together with many other +5V CAN transceivers from different
vendors. It seems no issue at all on my applications.
Funny N.
From: Peter Lauer <plauer@...>
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