Controllers and stuff for live performance

[Carlos Sanchiavedraz]

Hi dear folks.

I would like to do some kind of a survey to know about configs, setups, controllers, etc that you have come to over the years and based on your own experience. (Well, I already know some of yours for your mails on the list)

It's usual to see piano keyboards and controller boards, i.e. Behringer BCF/BCR2000 or FCB1010.

But more than this kind of consumer products, which I know many of them, I'm rather interested in something like (inexpensive and) strange MIDI controllers, pedal boards, Arduinos, DIY HW... that allow controlling and have interaction with applications, whether it's Ardour, Rosegarden, Freewheeling, Sooperlooper, Pd, Supercolider, Mixxx ...

Why this? I've been willing for a long time now to buy an audio interface with MIDI and maybe some controller, but at the moment I'm still stuck with just my keyboard and mouse; it's ok with DAWs but an inconvenient when using live loopers (most of all when playing guitar, and without a MIDI interface).

Thanks in advance.
--
Carlos "sanchiavedraz"
* Musix GNU+Linux
 http://www.musix.es

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[Peter Geirnaert]

On Sun, Oct 11, 2009 at 5:36 PM, Carlos Sanchiavedraz <csanchezgs@...> wrote:

Hi dear folks.

I would like to do some kind of a survey to know about configs, setups, controllers, etc that you have come to over the years and based on your own experience. (Well, I already know some of yours for your mails on the list)

It's usual to see piano keyboards and controller boards, i.e. Behringer BCF/BCR2000 or FCB1010.

But more than this kind of consumer products, which I know many of them, I'm rather interested in something like (inexpensive and) strange MIDI controllers, pedal boards, Arduinos, DIY HW... that allow controlling and have interaction with applications, whether it's Ardour, Rosegarden, Freewheeling, Sooperlooper, Pd, Supercolider, Mixxx ...

Why this? I've been willing for a long time now to buy an audio interface with MIDI and maybe some controller, but at the moment I'm still stuck with just my keyboard and mouse; it's ok with DAWs but an inconvenient when using live loopers (most of all when playing guitar, and without a MIDI interface).

Thanks in advance.
--
Carlos "sanchiavedraz"
* Musix GNU+Linux
 http://www.musix.es

Hi Carlos,
There's a GPL v3 project on Sourceforge for using a webcam as midi input, pmidic, unfortunately it's only available in a windows version though the programmer planned to do a linux version too.
(I'm friends with him on facebook and it doesn't really look like he's gonna write one soon, but when I said I wanted to write the linux version , he liked it, too bad I can't program well enough to finish the job.)

I played with pmidic for a while (on a windows xp setup IIRC) and could make my synth produce a low bell when I walked to the left of the camera field and a high bell when walking to the right :) That's been a while, I don't remember the problems when I tested it using wine but it didn't work for me.

Looking forward to see anything that comes up from your quest ...

Peter

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[Renato Budinich]

On Sun, 11 Oct 2009 19:36:55 +0200
Carlos Sanchiavedraz <csanchezgs@...> wrote:

> Hi dear folks.
>
> I would like to do some kind of a survey to know about configs,
> setups, controllers, etc that you have come to over the years and
> based on your own experience. (Well, I already know some of yours for
> your mails on the list)
>
> It's usual to see piano keyboards and controller boards, i.e.
> Behringer BCF/BCR2000 or FCB1010.
>
> But more than this kind of consumer products, which I know many of
> them, I'm rather interested in something like (inexpensive and)
> strange MIDI controllers, pedal boards, Arduinos, DIY HW... that
> allow controlling and have interaction with applications, whether
> it's Ardour, Rosegarden, Freewheeling, Sooperlooper, Pd,
> Supercolider, Mixxx ...
>
> Why this? I've been willing for a long time now to buy an audio
> interface with MIDI and maybe some controller, but at the moment I'm
> still stuck with just my keyboard and mouse; it's ok with DAWs but an
> inconvenient when using live loopers (most of all when playing
> guitar, and without a MIDI interface).
>
> Thanks in advance.

Hello,
I'm very interested in this topic too - I think that the signal
processing power of modern pcs is totally useless (for live playing)
if you don't have an effective/intuitive way of controlling it. At the
moment I'm working on two routes:
1)Supercollider - it can get inputs from any HID (btw I've
heard also Pd does) and easily , and totally customably, convert it to
midi. I've used rig kontrol 2 from native instruments (pedal board
without builtin usb-midi), a bluetooth mouse and a joystick to generate
midi notes and controls... I've controlled with these rakarrack,
jack-rack and freewheeling. It's a good start, but right now I'm
looking at processing sound directly in Supercollider to have the
controls more integrated in the effects (and to have overall more
control on effects)
2) Arduino with the the ttymidi library, which is an arduino library +
alsa midi app which, very easily, gives you the possibility to create
midi from within the arduino code, then you simply route ttymidi's out
to any midi in you desire (in qjackctl for example). Have to say that
at the moment I'm having some trouble with this library, though I count
on getting it working (it was a few months ago).

For the moment I've experimented much more on 1 than on 2, but I'm
planning on building some kinds of controls directly on my guitar and
I might use Arduino for that (or I could hack a bluetooth
keyboard if I find one cheap)

In this setup I actually don't need a sound card with MIDI (though I
have one) - HIDs and Arduino are USB. I know it's possible to make
Arduino send Midi on standard Midi plugs/cables, but why bother when
there's ttymidi.

Renato
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[nescivi]

On Sunday 11 October 2009 13:36:55 Carlos Sanchiavedraz wrote:

> Hi dear folks.
>
> I would like to do some kind of a survey to know about configs, setups,
> controllers, etc that you have come to over the years and based on your own
> experience. (Well, I already know some of yours for your mails on the list)
>
> It's usual to see piano keyboards and controller boards, i.e. Behringer
> BCF/BCR2000 or FCB1010.
>
> But more than this kind of consumer products, which I know many of them,
>  I'm rather interested in something like (inexpensive and) strange MIDI
>  controllers, pedal boards, Arduinos, DIY HW... that allow controlling and
>  have interaction with applications, whether it's Ardour, Rosegarden,
>  Freewheeling, Sooperlooper, Pd, Supercolider, Mixxx ...
>
> Why this? I've been willing for a long time now to buy an audio interface
> with MIDI and maybe some controller, but at the moment I'm still stuck with
> just my keyboard and mouse; it's ok with DAWs but an inconvenient when
>  using live loopers (most of all when playing guitar, and without a MIDI
> interface).

Check out http://www.sensorwiki.org
it has a good list of interfaces and sensors to use for them,
and a link to a taxonomy of digital instruments (by far incomplete, but
still).
Also http://www.nime.org may point you to some of the stuff that's out there.

sincerely,
Marije
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[Michal Seta]

Hey,

Here's my take at adapting a USB joystick (purchased second hand, $20
for a pair) as a "controller" for my guitar.  I actually performed
with that thing.  The thumb sticks were replaced by photocells so that
by waving my hand in front (and changing the intensity of light
reaching the components) I could control some continuous parameters.
The buttons of the pad were mapped to various things, depending on the
"preset".

http://tinyurl.com/yzgrzvp

It was all hooked up to pd in which most of the audio processing took
place except for some presents where the buttons controlled a
sooperlooper instance via OSC.

I have now decided to give up the USB joystick on that instrument and
try to figure something out with the wiimote which is a lot of fun to
play with.  The other usual contender is an iPod Touch/iPhone even if
mostly used in connection with OSC.

Have fun digging, there are a lot of fun projects around.

./MiS

On Sun, Oct 11, 2009 at 1:36 PM, Carlos Sanchiavedraz
<csanchezgs@...> wrote:

> Hi dear folks.
>
> I would like to do some kind of a survey to know about configs, setups,
> controllers, etc that you have come to over the years and based on your own
> experience. (Well, I already know some of yours for your mails on the list)
>
> It's usual to see piano keyboards and controller boards, i.e. Behringer
> BCF/BCR2000 or FCB1010.
>
> But more than this kind of consumer products, which I know many of them, I'm
> rather interested in something like (inexpensive and) strange MIDI
> controllers, pedal boards, Arduinos, DIY HW... that allow controlling and
> have interaction with applications, whether it's Ardour, Rosegarden,
> Freewheeling, Sooperlooper, Pd, Supercolider, Mixxx ...
>
> Why this? I've been willing for a long time now to buy an audio interface
> with MIDI and maybe some controller, but at the moment I'm still stuck with
> just my keyboard and mouse; it's ok with DAWs but an inconvenient when using
> live loopers (most of all when playing guitar, and without a MIDI
> interface).
>
> Thanks in advance.
> --
> Carlos "sanchiavedraz"
> * Musix GNU+Linux
>  http://www.musix.es
>
> _______________________________________________
> Linux-audio-user mailing list
> Linux-audio-user@...
> http://lists.linuxaudio.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-audio-user
>
>

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[david-602]

nescivi wrote:

> On Sunday 11 October 2009 13:36:55 Carlos Sanchiavedraz wrote:
>> Hi dear folks.
>>
>> I would like to do some kind of a survey to know about configs, setups,
>> controllers, etc that you have come to over the years and based on your own
>> experience. (Well, I already know some of yours for your mails on the list)
>>
>> It's usual to see piano keyboards and controller boards, i.e. Behringer
>> BCF/BCR2000 or FCB1010.
>>
>> But more than this kind of consumer products, which I know many of them,
>>  I'm rather interested in something like (inexpensive and) strange MIDI
>>  controllers, pedal boards, Arduinos, DIY HW... that allow controlling and
>>  have interaction with applications, whether it's Ardour, Rosegarden,
>>  Freewheeling, Sooperlooper, Pd, Supercolider, Mixxx ...
>>
>> Why this? I've been willing for a long time now to buy an audio interface
>> with MIDI and maybe some controller, but at the moment I'm still stuck with
>> just my keyboard and mouse; it's ok with DAWs but an inconvenient when
>>  using live loopers (most of all when playing guitar, and without a MIDI
>> interface).
>
> Check out http://www.sensorwiki.org
> it has a good list of interfaces and sensors to use for them,
> and a link to a taxonomy of digital instruments (by far incomplete, but
> still).
> Also http://www.nime.org may point you to some of the stuff that's out there.

I had a thought re keyboards (particularly the keys themselves). Why
can't the surface of a key be a touchpad-like surface sensitive to
pressure and even movement? So, for example, you could play a violin
note, hold it, and use finger pressure and movement on the key surface
itself to do vibrato the way a violinist would? That would go a long
ways toward bringing human expressiveness back into playing the sounds
of such expressive instruments as strings and woodwinds.

--
David
gnome@...
authenticity, honesty, community
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[David Adler-4]

For theremin sensors have a look at:
http://asmir.theremin.ru/
The sensors Andrey Smirnov uses in his workshops can either
be connected via a microcontroller like Arduino, or their analog
frequency output can be fed into a soundcard and converted to
control data by pd.

have fun,
d
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[Carlos Sanchiavedraz]

Really nice, it's a pitty... windows only.

There are other projects related to webcams:

http://airguitar.tml.hut.fi/whatis.html
http://www.billaboop.com/

This last one is really nice.

Thanks Peter.

2009/10/11 Peter Geirnaert <peter.geirnaert@...>

On Sun, Oct 11, 2009 at 5:36 PM, Carlos Sanchiavedraz <csanchezgs@...> wrote:

Hi dear folks.

I would like to do some kind of a survey to know about configs, setups, controllers, etc that you have come to over the years and based on your own experience. (Well, I already know some of yours for your mails on the list)

It's usual to see piano keyboards and controller boards, i.e. Behringer BCF/BCR2000 or FCB1010.

But more than this kind of consumer products, which I know many of them, I'm rather interested in something like (inexpensive and) strange MIDI controllers, pedal boards, Arduinos, DIY HW... that allow controlling and have interaction with applications, whether it's Ardour, Rosegarden, Freewheeling, Sooperlooper, Pd, Supercolider, Mixxx ...

Why this? I've been willing for a long time now to buy an audio interface with MIDI and maybe some controller, but at the moment I'm still stuck with just my keyboard and mouse; it's ok with DAWs but an inconvenient when using live loopers (most of all when playing guitar, and without a MIDI interface).

Thanks in advance.
--
Carlos "sanchiavedraz"
* Musix GNU+Linux
 http://www.musix.es

Hi Carlos,
There's a GPL v3 project on Sourceforge for using a webcam as midi input, pmidic, unfortunately it's only available in a windows version though the programmer planned to do a linux version too.
(I'm friends with him on facebook and it doesn't really look like he's gonna write one soon, but when I said I wanted to write the linux version , he liked it, too bad I can't program well enough to finish the job.)

I played with pmidic for a while (on a windows xp setup IIRC) and could make my synth produce a low bell when I walked to the left of the camera field and a high bell when walking to the right :) That's been a while, I don't remember the problems when I tested it using wine but it didn't work for me.

Looking forward to see anything that comes up from your quest ...

Peter

--
Carlos "sanchiavedraz"
* Musix GNU+Linux
 http://www.musix.es

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[Carlos Sanchiavedraz]

Hi,

2009/10/11 Renato <rennabh@...>

On Sun, 11 Oct 2009 19:36:55 +0200

Carlos Sanchiavedraz <csanchezgs@...> wrote:

> Hi dear folks.

[...]
 

Hello,
I'm very interested in this topic too - I think that the signal
processing power of modern pcs is totally useless (for live playing)
if you don't have an effective/intuitive way of controlling it. At the
moment I'm working on two routes:
1)Supercollider - it can get inputs from any HID (btw I've
heard also Pd does) and easily , and totally customably, convert it to
midi. I've used rig kontrol 2 from native instruments (pedal board
without builtin usb-midi), a bluetooth mouse and a joystick to generate
midi notes and controls... I've controlled with these rakarrack,
jack-rack and freewheeling. It's a good start, but right now I'm
looking at processing sound directly in Supercollider to have the
controls more integrated in the effects (and to have overall more
control on effects)

Well, it seems I should give a try to Supercollider in the near future :). I only ahve experimented with Pd and CLAM.

About HID2USB I know also this project:
http://1010.co.uk/avrhid.html

 

2) Arduino with the the ttymidi library, which is an arduino library +
alsa midi app which, very easily, gives you the possibility to create
midi from within the arduino code, then you simply route ttymidi's out
to any midi in you desire (in qjackctl for example). Have to say that
at the moment I'm having some trouble with this library, though I count
on getting it working (it was a few months ago).

mmm... Really good news that ttymidi. Maybe with this I could have one keyboard as a keyboard itself and another acting as a MIDI keyboard in such a way that I can play on this last one right at the strong beat (really hard when you are alt+tab-ing all the time) and trigger to record a loop with a key on the other, i.e. on Freewheeling.
 

For the moment I've experimented much more on 1 than on 2, but I'm
planning on building some kinds of controls directly on my guitar and
I might use Arduino for that (or I could hack a bluetooth
keyboard if I find one cheap)

I'm really interested on that control-guitar thing, so please keep me informed about. Maybe I could help in some way.
 

In this setup I actually don't need a sound card with MIDI (though I
have one) - HIDs and Arduino are USB. I know it's possible to make
Arduino send Midi on standard Midi plugs/cables, but why bother when
there's ttymidi.

Yes :)

I really appreciate your info.
Greetings, Renato.

--
Carlos "sanchiavedraz"
* Musix GNU+Linux
 http://www.musix.es

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[Carlos Sanchiavedraz]

Interesting projects. I should know them by now ;) (I had NIME on my bookmarks but I didn't even remember).

Thanks so much.

2009/10/12 nescivi <nescivi@...>

On Sunday 11 October 2009 13:36:55 Carlos Sanchiavedraz wrote:
> Hi dear folks.
>
> I would like to do some kind of a survey to know about configs, setups,
> controllers, etc that you have come to over the years and based on your own
> experience. (Well, I already know some of yours for your mails on the list)
>
> It's usual to see piano keyboards and controller boards, i.e. Behringer
> BCF/BCR2000 or FCB1010.
>
> But more than this kind of consumer products, which I know many of them,
>  I'm rather interested in something like (inexpensive and) strange MIDI
>  controllers, pedal boards, Arduinos, DIY HW... that allow controlling and
>  have interaction with applications, whether it's Ardour, Rosegarden,
>  Freewheeling, Sooperlooper, Pd, Supercolider, Mixxx ...
>
> Why this? I've been willing for a long time now to buy an audio interface
> with MIDI and maybe some controller, but at the moment I'm still stuck with
> just my keyboard and mouse; it's ok with DAWs but an inconvenient when
>  using live loopers (most of all when playing guitar, and without a MIDI
> interface).

Check out http://www.sensorwiki.org
it has a good list of interfaces and sensors to use for them,
and a link to a taxonomy of digital instruments (by far incomplete, but
still).
Also http://www.nime.org may point you to some of the stuff that's out there.

sincerely,
Marije

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--
Carlos "sanchiavedraz"
* Musix GNU+Linux
 http://www.musix.es

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[Carlos Sanchiavedraz]

Hi Michal,

2009/10/12 Michal Seta <mis@...>

Hey,

Here's my take at adapting a USB joystick (purchased second hand, $20
for a pair) as a "controller" for my guitar.  I actually performed
with that thing.  The thumb sticks were replaced by photocells so that
by waving my hand in front (and changing the intensity of light
reaching the components) I could control some continuous parameters.
The buttons of the pad were mapped to various things, depending on the
"preset".

http://tinyurl.com/yzgrzvp

It was all hooked up to pd in which most of the audio processing took
place except for some presents where the buttons controlled a
sooperlooper instance via OSC.

What a guitar-attached-controller! ;) It might be good for controlling fx, but maybe a little tricky to start recording a loop at the time you play with your right hand.
Anyway, really nice. Do you have the project available.

I have now decided to give up the USB joystick on that instrument and
try to figure something out with the wiimote which is a lot of fun to
play with.  The other usual contender is an iPod Touch/iPhone even if
mostly used in connection with OSC.

Have fun digging, there are a lot of fun projects around.

Talking about wiimote and MIDI, keep track of a project I'm involved that I mentioned some time ago, wiimidi:
http://github.com/fontanon/wiimidi

It's in its first steps, but I hope at the end it would be really easy and useful for every kind of user.

Thanks.
 

./MiS

On Sun, Oct 11, 2009 at 1:36 PM, Carlos Sanchiavedraz
<csanchezgs@...> wrote:
> Hi dear folks.
>
> I would like to do some kind of a survey to know about configs, setups,
> controllers, etc that you have come to over the years and based on your own
> experience. (Well, I already know some of yours for your mails on the list)
>
> It's usual to see piano keyboards and controller boards, i.e. Behringer
> BCF/BCR2000 or FCB1010.
>
> But more than this kind of consumer products, which I know many of them, I'm
> rather interested in something like (inexpensive and) strange MIDI
> controllers, pedal boards, Arduinos, DIY HW... that allow controlling and
> have interaction with applications, whether it's Ardour, Rosegarden,
> Freewheeling, Sooperlooper, Pd, Supercolider, Mixxx ...
>
> Why this? I've been willing for a long time now to buy an audio interface
> with MIDI and maybe some controller, but at the moment I'm still stuck with
> just my keyboard and mouse; it's ok with DAWs but an inconvenient when using
> live loopers (most of all when playing guitar, and without a MIDI
> interface).
>
> Thanks in advance.
> --
> Carlos "sanchiavedraz"
> * Musix GNU+Linux
>  http://www.musix.es
>

> _______________________________________________
> Linux-audio-user mailing list
> Linux-audio-user@...
> http://lists.linuxaudio.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-audio-user
>
>

--
Carlos "sanchiavedraz"
* Musix GNU+Linux
 http://www.musix.es

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[Carlos Sanchiavedraz]

Hi David,

2009/10/12 david <gnome@...>

nescivi wrote:
> On Sunday 11 October 2009 13:36:55 Carlos Sanchiavedraz wrote:
>> Hi dear folks.
>>

[...]

I had a thought re keyboards (particularly the keys themselves). Why
can't the surface of a key be a touchpad-like surface sensitive to
pressure and even movement? So, for example, you could play a violin
note, hold it, and use finger pressure and movement on the key surface
itself to do vibrato the way a violinist would? That would go a long
ways toward bringing human expressiveness back into playing the sounds
of such expressive instruments as strings and woodwinds.

Yes, that would be great. But AFAIK the circuit inside keyboards just cares about keypresses; nothing about pressure or velocity, although maybe something could be hacked given the present keyswitches, electrical contacts (or I think capacitors on old ones), scan codes and other stuff.
Do you know any work about that?

--
Carlos "sanchiavedraz"
* Musix GNU+Linux
 http://www.musix.es

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[david-602]

Carlos Sanchiavedraz wrote:

> Hi David,
>
> 2009/10/12 david <gnome@... <mailto:gnome@...>>
>
>     nescivi wrote:
>      > On Sunday 11 October 2009 13:36:55 Carlos Sanchiavedraz wrote:
>      >> Hi dear folks.
>      >>
>
> [...]
>
>
>     I had a thought re keyboards (particularly the keys themselves). Why
>     can't the surface of a key be a touchpad-like surface sensitive to
>     pressure and even movement? So, for example, you could play a violin
>     note, hold it, and use finger pressure and movement on the key surface
>     itself to do vibrato the way a violinist would? That would go a long
>     ways toward bringing human expressiveness back into playing the sounds
>     of such expressive instruments as strings and woodwinds.
>
>
> Yes, that would be great. But AFAIK the circuit inside keyboards just
> cares about keypresses; nothing about pressure or velocity, although
> maybe something could be hacked given the present keyswitches,
> electrical contacts (or I think capacitors on old ones), scan codes and
> other stuff.
> Do you know any work about that?

Sorry, I should have mentioned that I was talking about musical
keyboards, not computer keyboards ... although I suppose you that if you
ganged some Trackpoints (IBM's little eraser pointer tool) together, you
could get take advantage of the Trackpoint's directional abilities.

It was just an idea that I think would be great. Don't know if anyone is
working on anything even remotely like it...

--
David
gnome@...
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[Carlos Sanchiavedraz]

2009/10/12 david <gnome@...>

Carlos Sanchiavedraz wrote:

Hi David,

2009/10/12 david <gnome@... <mailto:gnome@...>>

   nescivi wrote:
    > On Sunday 11 October 2009 13:36:55 Carlos Sanchiavedraz wrote:
    >> Hi dear folks.
    >>

[...]


   I had a thought re keyboards (particularly the keys themselves). Why
   can't the surface of a key be a touchpad-like surface sensitive to
   pressure and even movement? So, for example, you could play a violin
   note, hold it, and use finger pressure and movement on the key surface
   itself to do vibrato the way a violinist would? That would go a long
   ways toward bringing human expressiveness back into playing the sounds
   of such expressive instruments as strings and woodwinds.


Yes, that would be great. But AFAIK the circuit inside keyboards just cares about keypresses; nothing about pressure or velocity, although maybe something could be hacked given the present keyswitches, electrical contacts (or I think capacitors on old ones), scan codes and other stuff.
Do you know any work about that?

Sorry, I should have mentioned that I was talking about musical keyboards, not computer keyboards ... although I suppose you that if you ganged some Trackpoints (IBM's little eraser pointer tool) together, you could get take advantage of the Trackpoint's directional abilities.

It was just an idea that I think would be great. Don't know if anyone is working on anything even remotely like it...

--
David
gnome@...
authenticity, honesty, community

Ok :).

Then, I'm not sure, but I think what you refer is called "aftertouch":
http://www.google.com/search?q=aftertouch+keyboard

--
Carlos "sanchiavedraz"
* Musix GNU+Linux
 http://www.musix.es

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[David Adler-4]

On Mon, Oct 12, 2009 at 7:02 PM, Carlos Sanchiavedraz
<csanchezgs@...> wrote:

>
>
> 2009/10/12 David Adler <david.jo.adler@...>
>>
>> For theremin sensors have a look at:
>> http://asmir.theremin.ru/
>> The sensors Andrey Smirnov uses in his workshops can either
>> be connected via a microcontroller like Arduino, or their analog
>> frequency output can be fed into a soundcard and converted to
>> control data by pd.
>>
>> have fun,
>> d
>>
>
> I love Theremins!
>
> It's just that, after having a look at the projects, it seems to be very
> difficult to implement any of them, most of all if it includes sensors,
> although there are some Pd libraries (for Mac most of them).
> I'm going to watch some videos.
>
> Thanks David.
>

In any case, whether using pd+soundcard or a microcontroller, you
need a sensor. During his workshops Andrey Asimov sells them, it
doesn't seem as if he sells them through the website though. Maybe
just contact him via email, he is a very nice guy.

The Pd libraries are, just as Pd, platform independent. The MAX/MSP
stuff is Mac only.

Theremin sensors are quite sensitive to distubance (e.g. ground loops)
so it can be a little fiddly to set everything up. I recomment one of
the workshops (if there is one in the area...), though given some
interest and patience it should be feasible without.

best,
d
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[david-602]

Carlos Sanchiavedraz wrote:

>
>
> 2009/10/12 david <gnome@... <mailto:gnome@...>>
>
>     Carlos Sanchiavedraz wrote:
>
>         Hi David,
>
>         2009/10/12 david <gnome@...
>         <mailto:gnome@...> <mailto:gnome@...
>         <mailto:gnome@...>>>
>
>
>            nescivi wrote:
>             > On Sunday 11 October 2009 13:36:55 Carlos Sanchiavedraz wrote:
>             >> Hi dear folks.
>             >>
>
>         [...]
>
>
>            I had a thought re keyboards (particularly the keys
>         themselves). Why
>            can't the surface of a key be a touchpad-like surface
>         sensitive to
>            pressure and even movement? So, for example, you could play a
>         violin
>            note, hold it, and use finger pressure and movement on the
>         key surface
>            itself to do vibrato the way a violinist would? That would go
>         a long
>            ways toward bringing human expressiveness back into playing
>         the sounds
>            of such expressive instruments as strings and woodwinds.
>
>
>         Yes, that would be great. But AFAIK the circuit inside keyboards
>         just cares about keypresses; nothing about pressure or velocity,
>         although maybe something could be hacked given the present
>         keyswitches, electrical contacts (or I think capacitors on old
>         ones), scan codes and other stuff.
>         Do you know any work about that?
>
>
>     Sorry, I should have mentioned that I was talking about musical
>     keyboards, not computer keyboards ... although I suppose you that if
>     you ganged some Trackpoints (IBM's little eraser pointer tool)
>     together, you could get take advantage of the Trackpoint's
>     directional abilities.
>
>     It was just an idea that I think would be great. Don't know if
>     anyone is working on anything even remotely like it...
>
>
> Ok :).
>
> Then, I'm not sure, but I think what you refer is called "aftertouch":
> http://www.google.com/search?q=aftertouch+keyboard

Hmmm, hadn't run into that. I read the Wikipedia article about it. The
three forms of aftertouch they mention don't seem to include my idea of
directional movement while holding the key down.

But an array of Trackpoints might be interesting as a control input, too.

--
David
gnome@...
authenticity, honesty, community
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[Carlos Sanchiavedraz]

2009/10/13 david <gnome@...>

Carlos Sanchiavedraz wrote:
>
>
> 2009/10/12 david <gnome@... <mailto:gnome@...>>
>
>     Carlos Sanchiavedraz wrote:
>
>         Hi David,
>
>         2009/10/12 david <gnome@...

>         <mailto:gnome@...> <mailto:gnome@...

>         <mailto:gnome@...>>>
>
>
>            nescivi wrote:
>             > On Sunday 11 October 2009 13:36:55 Carlos Sanchiavedraz wrote:
>             >> Hi dear folks.
>             >>
>
>         [...]
>
>
>            I had a thought re keyboards (particularly the keys
>         themselves). Why
>            can't the surface of a key be a touchpad-like surface
>         sensitive to
>            pressure and even movement? So, for example, you could play a
>         violin
>            note, hold it, and use finger pressure and movement on the
>         key surface
>            itself to do vibrato the way a violinist would? That would go
>         a long
>            ways toward bringing human expressiveness back into playing
>         the sounds
>            of such expressive instruments as strings and woodwinds.
>
>
>         Yes, that would be great. But AFAIK the circuit inside keyboards
>         just cares about keypresses; nothing about pressure or velocity,
>         although maybe something could be hacked given the present
>         keyswitches, electrical contacts (or I think capacitors on old
>         ones), scan codes and other stuff.
>         Do you know any work about that?
>
>
>     Sorry, I should have mentioned that I was talking about musical
>     keyboards, not computer keyboards ... although I suppose you that if
>     you ganged some Trackpoints (IBM's little eraser pointer tool)
>     together, you could get take advantage of the Trackpoint's
>     directional abilities.
>
>     It was just an idea that I think would be great. Don't know if
>     anyone is working on anything even remotely like it...
>
>

> Ok :).
>
> Then, I'm not sure, but I think what you refer is called "aftertouch":
> http://www.google.com/search?q=aftertouch+keyboard

Hmmm, hadn't run into that. I read the Wikipedia article about it. The
three forms of aftertouch they mention don't seem to include my idea of
directional movement while holding the key down.

But an array of Trackpoints might be interesting as a control input, too.

So you say something like to achieve little variations of notes ("vibrato" alike) depending on the key/finger movement, isn't it? I think there is something like that in really expensive keyboards/controllers, but not sure.

--
Carlos "sanchiavedraz"
* Musix GNU+Linux
 http://www.musix.es

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[Paul Davis]

On Tue, Oct 13, 2009 at 4:02 AM, david <gnome@...> wrote:

> Hmmm, hadn't run into that. I read the Wikipedia article about it. The
> three forms of aftertouch they mention don't seem to include my idea of
> directional movement while holding the key down.

IIRC, Herbie Hancock played such a beast in the late 70's or early 80s.
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[nescivi]

On Monday 12 October 2009 01:36:14 david wrote:

> nescivi wrote:
> > On Sunday 11 October 2009 13:36:55 Carlos Sanchiavedraz wrote:
> >> Hi dear folks.
> >>
> >> I would like to do some kind of a survey to know about configs, setups,
> >> controllers, etc that you have come to over the years and based on your
> >> own experience. (Well, I already know some of yours for your mails on
> >> the list)
> >>
> >> It's usual to see piano keyboards and controller boards, i.e. Behringer
> >> BCF/BCR2000 or FCB1010.
> >>
> >> But more than this kind of consumer products, which I know many of them,
> >>  I'm rather interested in something like (inexpensive and) strange MIDI
> >>  controllers, pedal boards, Arduinos, DIY HW... that allow controlling
> >> and have interaction with applications, whether it's Ardour, Rosegarden,
> >> Freewheeling, Sooperlooper, Pd, Supercolider, Mixxx ...
> >>
> >> Why this? I've been willing for a long time now to buy an audio
> >> interface with MIDI and maybe some controller, but at the moment I'm
> >> still stuck with just my keyboard and mouse; it's ok with DAWs but an
> >> inconvenient when using live loopers (most of all when playing guitar,
> >> and without a MIDI interface).
> >
> > Check out http://www.sensorwiki.org
> > it has a good list of interfaces and sensors to use for them,
> > and a link to a taxonomy of digital instruments (by far incomplete, but
> > still).
> > Also http://www.nime.org may point you to some of the stuff that's out
> > there.
>
> I had a thought re keyboards (particularly the keys themselves). Why
> can't the surface of a key be a touchpad-like surface sensitive to
> pressure and even movement? So, for example, you could play a violin
> note, hold it, and use finger pressure and movement on the key surface
> itself to do vibrato the way a violinist would? That would go a long
> ways toward bringing human expressiveness back into playing the sounds
> of such expressive instruments as strings and woodwinds.

Look up what David Wessel at CNMAT is working with these days. Pretty much
what you're interested in.

sincerely,
Marije

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[Carlos Sanchiavedraz]

2009/10/13 nescivi <nescivi@...>

Look up what David Wessel at CNMAT is working with these days. Pretty much
what you're interested in.

sincerely,
Marije

url:
http://cnmat.berkeley.edu/people/david_wessel

--
Carlos "sanchiavedraz"
* Musix GNU+Linux
 http://www.musix.es

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