Copy Protection/DRM approach
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Copy Protection/DRM approach
by Cameron Eagans-2
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I have a client that is requesting a sort of DRM/Copy protection scheme for his website. The site will be an educational site for medical students to help them prepare for an exam for their field of work, and access to the site will be granted on a subscription basis. The client is requesting something that I don't know how to do: prevent getting the content out of the site in any way. He wants to disable copy/paste, printing, screenshots, etc. I'm reasonably certain that there is no foolproof method of doing this. Does anyone have a method of preventing users from copying website content and sharing it?
(for the record, I don't support this approach -- I'm more partial to the 'Don't copy our stuff or we'll sue the crap out of you' approach. The client is asking for it though, so I have to at least make an effort =D ) Thanks in advance! ----- Cameron Eagans Owner, Black Storms Studios, LLC http://www.blackstormsstudios.com _______________________________________________ consulting mailing list consulting@... http://lists.drupal.org/mailman/listinfo/consulting |
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Re: Copy Protection/DRM approach
by Larry Garfield
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Copy/paste: Rewrite the entire site as a flash app Flash and have Flash render
all text as graphics. Printing: Go to your users' computers and unplug their printers. Screenshots: Hack into your users' computers and hack their OS to disable that feature. As for your client, he needs to be banned from using the Internet until he gets a clue that it's no longer the 1800s. Hell, Xerox machines have been around forever and they allow all sorts of duplication of physical books. Even for a subscription site he's being asinine. On Sunday 11 October 2009 3:47:23 pm Cameron Eagans wrote: > I have a client that is requesting a sort of DRM/Copy protection scheme for > his website. The site will be an educational site for medical students to > help them prepare for an exam for their field of work, and access to the > site will be granted on a subscription basis. The client is requesting > something that I don't know how to do: prevent getting the content out of > the site in any way. He wants to disable copy/paste, printing, screenshots, > etc. I'm reasonably certain that there is no foolproof method of doing > this. Does anyone have a method of preventing users from copying website > content and sharing it? > > (for the record, I don't support this approach -- I'm more partial to the > 'Don't copy our stuff or we'll sue the crap out of you' approach. The > client is asking for it though, so I have to at least make an effort =D ) > > Thanks in advance! > ----- > Cameron Eagans > Owner, Black Storms Studios, LLC > http://www.blackstormsstudios.com -- Larry Garfield larry@... _______________________________________________ consulting mailing list consulting@... http://lists.drupal.org/mailman/listinfo/consulting |
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Re: Copy Protection/DRM approach
by Cameron Eagans
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See, that was my first reaction too. Basically, the entire point of emailing here was to confirm that I wasn't just being lazy =D
Thanks for the feedback! ----- Cameron Eagans Owner, Black Storms Studios, LLC http://www.blackstormsstudios.com On Sun, Oct 11, 2009 at 3:01 PM, Larry Garfield <larry@...> wrote: Copy/paste: Rewrite the entire site as a flash app Flash and have Flash render _______________________________________________ consulting mailing list consulting@... http://lists.drupal.org/mailman/listinfo/consulting |
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Re: Copy Protection/DRM approach
by Domenic Santangelo
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Lyrics websites have pretty decent cut/paste protection. It's just js,
so easily defeatable, but hey I'm sure it keeps 99% of the teenage girls from copying anything. The true goal should be to make it inconvenient (though not impossible) to copy info. If he really wants what you say he's asking for, he should distribute his content via DVD, viewable only thru a custom viewer. Domenic On Oct 11, 2009, at 2:01 PM, Larry Garfield <larry@...> wrote: > Copy/paste: Rewrite the entire site as a flash app Flash and have > Flash render > all text as graphics. > > Printing: Go to your users' computers and unplug their printers. > > Screenshots: Hack into your users' computers and hack their OS to > disable that > feature. > > As for your client, he needs to be banned from using the Internet > until he > gets a clue that it's no longer the 1800s. Hell, Xerox machines > have been > around forever and they allow all sorts of duplication of physical > books. > Even for a subscription site he's being asinine. > > On Sunday 11 October 2009 3:47:23 pm Cameron Eagans wrote: >> I have a client that is requesting a sort of DRM/Copy protection >> scheme for >> his website. The site will be an educational site for medical >> students to >> help them prepare for an exam for their field of work, and access >> to the >> site will be granted on a subscription basis. The client is >> requesting >> something that I don't know how to do: prevent getting the content >> out of >> the site in any way. He wants to disable copy/paste, printing, >> screenshots, >> etc. I'm reasonably certain that there is no foolproof method of >> doing >> this. Does anyone have a method of preventing users from copying >> website >> content and sharing it? >> >> (for the record, I don't support this approach -- I'm more partial >> to the >> 'Don't copy our stuff or we'll sue the crap out of you' approach. The >> client is asking for it though, so I have to at least make an >> effort =D ) >> >> Thanks in advance! >> ----- >> Cameron Eagans >> Owner, Black Storms Studios, LLC >> http://www.blackstormsstudios.com > > -- > Larry Garfield > larry@... > _______________________________________________ > consulting mailing list > consulting@... > http://lists.drupal.org/mailman/listinfo/consulting consulting mailing list consulting@... http://lists.drupal.org/mailman/listinfo/consulting |
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Re: Copy Protection/DRM approach
by Sami Khan
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Lyrics sites are a good example. In some cases they retrieve content
using nothing by javascript (ajax) and then have a bunch of other javascript functions to protect the content. So if you disable javascript, you can't even get at the content. So in theory you could do that, make the content show up through javascript, would really even have to use ajax if you didn't want to, just put the html as an encoded json string on the page and then load it using jQuery, but it's a really messy way to do things and really just ugly. However, I don't know of any clean ways of achieving that goal. Sami On Sun, 2009-10-11 at 15:15 -0700, Domenic Santangelo wrote: > Lyrics websites have pretty decent cut/paste protection. It's just js, > so easily defeatable, but hey I'm sure it keeps 99% of the teenage > girls from copying anything. > > The true goal should be to make it inconvenient (though not > impossible) to copy info. If he really wants what you say he's asking > for, he should distribute his content via DVD, viewable only thru a > custom viewer. > > Domenic > > On Oct 11, 2009, at 2:01 PM, Larry Garfield <larry@...> > wrote: > > > Copy/paste: Rewrite the entire site as a flash app Flash and have > > Flash render > > all text as graphics. > > > > Printing: Go to your users' computers and unplug their printers. > > > > Screenshots: Hack into your users' computers and hack their OS to > > disable that > > feature. > > > > As for your client, he needs to be banned from using the Internet > > until he > > gets a clue that it's no longer the 1800s. Hell, Xerox machines > > have been > > around forever and they allow all sorts of duplication of physical > > books. > > Even for a subscription site he's being asinine. > > > > On Sunday 11 October 2009 3:47:23 pm Cameron Eagans wrote: > >> I have a client that is requesting a sort of DRM/Copy protection > >> scheme for > >> his website. The site will be an educational site for medical > >> students to > >> help them prepare for an exam for their field of work, and access > >> to the > >> site will be granted on a subscription basis. The client is > >> requesting > >> something that I don't know how to do: prevent getting the content > >> out of > >> the site in any way. He wants to disable copy/paste, printing, > >> screenshots, > >> etc. I'm reasonably certain that there is no foolproof method of > >> doing > >> this. Does anyone have a method of preventing users from copying > >> website > >> content and sharing it? > >> > >> (for the record, I don't support this approach -- I'm more partial > >> to the > >> 'Don't copy our stuff or we'll sue the crap out of you' approach. The > >> client is asking for it though, so I have to at least make an > >> effort =D ) > >> > >> Thanks in advance! > >> ----- > >> Cameron Eagans > >> Owner, Black Storms Studios, LLC > >> http://www.blackstormsstudios.com > > > > -- > > Larry Garfield > > larry@... > > _______________________________________________ > > consulting mailing list > > consulting@... > > http://lists.drupal.org/mailman/listinfo/consulting > _______________________________________________ > consulting mailing list > consulting@... > http://lists.drupal.org/mailman/listinfo/consulting _______________________________________________ consulting mailing list consulting@... http://lists.drupal.org/mailman/listinfo/consulting |
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Re: Copy Protection/DRM approach
by adept digital evolution
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On 10-11-2009 6:15 PM, Domenic Santangelo wrote:
> Lyrics websites have pretty decent cut/paste protection. It's just js, > so easily defeatable, but hey I'm sure it keeps 99% of the teenage > girls from copying anything. > Please be on the lookout for your own sexism before posting such sentences. thank you. kazar _______________________________________________ consulting mailing list consulting@... http://lists.drupal.org/mailman/listinfo/consulting |
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Re: Copy Protection/DRM approach
by Jeff Greenberg-3
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While the fact that you
called him on sexism, but not age-ism would indicate that you were ok
with it being attributed to teenagers, which means your a closet
age-ist? ;-)
adept digital evolution wrote: On 10-11-2009 6:15 PM, Domenic Santangelo wrote: _______________________________________________ consulting mailing list consulting@... http://lists.drupal.org/mailman/listinfo/consulting |
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Re: Copy Protection/DRM approach
by ashley maher
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adept digital evolution wrote:
> On 10-11-2009 6:15 PM, Domenic Santangelo wrote: >> Lyrics websites have pretty decent cut/paste protection. It's just js, >> so easily defeatable, but hey I'm sure it keeps 99% of the teenage >> girls from copying anything. >> > > Please be on the lookout for your own sexism before posting such > sentences. thank you. > Please be on the lookout for rejection of reality before posting such sentences thank-you. Ashley _______________________________________________ consulting mailing list consulting@... http://lists.drupal.org/mailman/listinfo/consulting |
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Re: Copy Protection/DRM approach
by Matt Chapman-10
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Larry Garfield wrote:
> Printing: Go to your users' computers and unplug their printers. > > Screenshots: Hack into your users' computers and hack their OS to disable that > feature. > > As for your client, he needs to be banned from using the Internet until he > gets a clue that it's no longer the 1800s. Hell, Xerox machines have been > around forever and they allow all sorts of duplication of physical books. > Xerox machines are exactly the loop hole you've forgotten. Once we've unplugged their printer and hacked out their screenshots, they can simply place their monitor faced down on the xerox machine and hit 'copy.' What you'll need to do is run the site on a single computer in a locked room that is not connected to the internet, and charge people an admission fee. Don't forget to check their pockets for camera phones, pencils, and silly putty. Speaking of silly... -Matt > On Sunday 11 October 2009 3:47:23 pm Cameron Eagans wrote: > >> I have a client that is requesting a sort of DRM/Copy protection scheme for >> his website. The site will be an educational site for medical students to >> help them prepare for an exam for their field of work, and access to the >> site will be granted on a subscription basis. The client is requesting >> something that I don't know how to do: prevent getting the content out of >> the site in any way. He wants to disable copy/paste, printing, screenshots, >> etc. I'm reasonably certain that there is no foolproof method of doing >> this. Does anyone have a method of preventing users from copying website >> content and sharing it? >> >> (for the record, I don't support this approach -- I'm more partial to the >> 'Don't copy our stuff or we'll sue the crap out of you' approach. The >> client is asking for it though, so I have to at least make an effort =D ) >> >> Thanks in advance! >> ----- >> Cameron Eagans >> Owner, Black Storms Studios, LLC >> http://www.blackstormsstudios.com >> > > consulting mailing list consulting@... http://lists.drupal.org/mailman/listinfo/consulting |
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Re: Copy Protection/DRM approach
by Drupal Developer
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Don't we all hate to deal with "silly" clients (I use term "silly"
just to be polite) and "silly" requests of "silly" clients.
Unfortunately, most of us have to deal with that from time to time. Don't forget, if all clients will be very smart, then most of them will do they web sites by themselves. So, paradox is that more "silly" clients produce more jobs. I hate to acknowledge this paradox but it is true. ;P Matt Chapman wrote: Larry Garfield wrote: _______________________________________________ consulting mailing list consulting@... http://lists.drupal.org/mailman/listinfo/consulting |
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Re: Copy Protection/DRM approach
by Sami Khan
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I don't think that what the client is asking is "silly". It's a valid
concern. But one which the current community doesn't sympathize with -- namely how to keep copyrighted materials from being copied so one can protect their business model, value, and therefore profits. After all if they had no business model, why would they be paying thousands of dollars to develop a website? Hence, the developers should do their best to see that he or she fulfils such requests, just make sure you have an airtight contract and the client understands the nature of what you are doing for them very well before you do it. In the future perhaps DRM will be as common as it is elsewhere, or copyrighted material will no longer exist. In which case there will be no incentive to be an author other than just to market yourself as an expert. In any case, just putting stuff out there on the web destroys the value of the material in the eyes of the consumer, so even if you can make it hard for the consumer to get at the material; that very fact creates value. Now you can want everyone to think outside of the box all you want, but the copyrighted publishing model in the age of ubiquity as defined by the printing press has been a valid model for quite sometime. Do expect people to want it to hold for some time more. Regards, Sami Khan On Sun, 2009-10-11 at 20:11 -0400, lapurd@... wrote: > Don't we all hate to deal with "silly" clients (I use term "silly" > just to be polite) and "silly" requests of "silly" clients. > Unfortunately, most of us have to deal with that from time to time. > Don't forget, if all clients will be very smart, then most of them > will do they web sites by themselves. > So, paradox is that more "silly" clients produce more jobs. > I hate to acknowledge this paradox but it is true. > ;P > > > Matt Chapman wrote: > > Larry Garfield wrote: > > > > > Printing: Go to your users' computers and unplug their printers. > > > > > > Screenshots: Hack into your users' computers and hack their OS to disable that > > > feature. > > > > > > As for your client, he needs to be banned from using the Internet until he > > > gets a clue that it's no longer the 1800s. Hell, Xerox machines have been > > > around forever and they allow all sorts of duplication of physical books. > > > > > > > > Xerox machines are exactly the loop hole you've forgotten. Once we've > > unplugged their printer and hacked out their screenshots, they can > > simply place their monitor faced down on the xerox machine and hit 'copy.' > > > > What you'll need to do is run the site on a single computer in a locked > > room that is not connected to the internet, and charge people an > > admission fee. Don't forget to check their pockets for camera phones, > > pencils, and silly putty. > > > > Speaking of silly... > > > > -Matt > > > > > > > > > On Sunday 11 October 2009 3:47:23 pm Cameron Eagans wrote: > > > > > > > > > > I have a client that is requesting a sort of DRM/Copy protection scheme for > > > > his website. The site will be an educational site for medical students to > > > > help them prepare for an exam for their field of work, and access to the > > > > site will be granted on a subscription basis. The client is requesting > > > > something that I don't know how to do: prevent getting the content out of > > > > the site in any way. He wants to disable copy/paste, printing, screenshots, > > > > etc. I'm reasonably certain that there is no foolproof method of doing > > > > this. Does anyone have a method of preventing users from copying website > > > > content and sharing it? > > > > > > > > (for the record, I don't support this approach -- I'm more partial to the > > > > 'Don't copy our stuff or we'll sue the crap out of you' approach. The > > > > client is asking for it though, so I have to at least make an effort =D ) > > > > > > > > Thanks in advance! > > > > ----- > > > > Cameron Eagans > > > > Owner, Black Storms Studios, LLC > > > > http://www.blackstormsstudios.com > _______________________________________________ > consulting mailing list > consulting@... > http://lists.drupal.org/mailman/listinfo/consulting _______________________________________________ consulting mailing list consulting@... http://lists.drupal.org/mailman/listinfo/consulting |
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Re: Copy Protection/DRM approach
by Jeff Greenberg-3
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Sami Khan wrote:
> I don't think that what the client is asking is "silly". It's a valid > concern. But one which the current community doesn't sympathize with -- > namely how to keep copyrighted materials from being copied so one can > protect their business model, value, and therefore profits. > > As far as I can see, the original copyrighted material, print matter, is still available in print matter, and people can still run to a copy machine and make a copy of it, beyond fair use, if they want to. There is no way to completely prevent any copyright infringement other than (a) don't make the material available, or (b) police it. It's like not wanting dings on your car. That's fine. It's your car. You worked hard for it. No one should have the right to ding it. So you can post armed guards around it at the supermarket, not drive it, or accept that if you put it out there, it might get dinged. _______________________________________________ consulting mailing list consulting@... http://lists.drupal.org/mailman/listinfo/consulting |
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Re: Copy Protection/DRM approach
by Sami Khan
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On Sun, 2009-10-11 at 20:59 -0400, Jeff Greenberg wrote:
> As far as I can see, the original copyrighted material, print matter, > is > still available in print matter, and people can still run to a copy > machine and make a copy of it, beyond fair use, if they want to. > There > is no way to completely prevent any copyright infringement other than > (a) don't make the material available, or (b) police it. > > It's like not wanting dings on your car. That's fine. It's your car. > You > worked hard for it. No one should have the right to ding it. So you > can > post armed guards around it at the supermarket, not drive it, or > accept > that if you put it out there, it might get dinged. I agree with that sentiment, that they can, the point that I was trying to make is that it is too make it harder to do. If you have to look at the source code of a document, then take a json string and convert it to text, you might be less inclined to copy it and pass it on to a friend that has not paid the dues, then if you can just print it to a PDF and e-mail it. The same with photocopying, I have a number of books that I may lend to a friend, but I have yet to photocopy an entire book and pass it on. Though I do know it happens, but it does not happen often enough that the profits are overly affected, else the publishers wouldn't be making the sort of profits to stay in business. Regards, Sami _______________________________________________ consulting mailing list consulting@... http://lists.drupal.org/mailman/listinfo/consulting |
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Re: Copy Protection/DRM approach
by Jeff Greenberg-3
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Sami Khan wrote:
> > I agree with that sentiment, that they can, the point that I was trying > to make is that it is too make it harder to do. > Regards, > Sami > You do make a good point. This is off the top of my head, and I'm sure someone will jump in with why this would be a horrible idea, but it seems that if you can make a DVD player refuse to copy a DVD (or skip the annoying warning about skipping the annoying warning), you should be able to have the OS refuse to do a screen capture, for example. It's not foolproof, but neither is the DVD thing. Best, Jeff _______________________________________________ consulting mailing list consulting@... http://lists.drupal.org/mailman/listinfo/consulting |
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Re: Copy Protection/DRM approach
by Laura Scott-2
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On Oct 11, 2009, at Sun 10/11/09 8:04pm, Jeff Greenberg wrote:
> Sami Khan wrote: > >> >> I agree with that sentiment, that they can, the point that I was >> trying >> to make is that it is too make it harder to do. >> Regards, >> Sami >> > You do make a good point. This is off the top of my head, and I'm sure > someone will jump in with why this would be a horrible idea, but it > seems that if you can make a DVD player refuse to copy a DVD (or skip > the annoying warning about skipping the annoying warning), you > should be > able to have the OS refuse to do a screen capture, for example. It's > not > foolproof, but neither is the DVD thing. I believe you're describing Sony Rootkit. Laura _______________________________________________ consulting mailing list consulting@... http://lists.drupal.org/mailman/listinfo/consulting |
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Re: Copy Protection/DRM approach
by Drupal Developer
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Nobody is disagree that it is possible to make access "more
controllable" but original requirements described in email that start
this thread is state:
"... prevent getting the content out of the site in any way. He wants to disable copy/paste, printing, screenshots, etc.". And that requirement is "silly". As it was explained before in this thread, it is possible with combination to restrict access to content and make it hard to retrieve "through some of back doors":
So, point is that statement like "prevent getting the content out of the site in any way" make an original requirements "silly". Of course, it should be explain to client in most polite way. Problem is that some times some of the clients firmly believes that they are know what they talking about. And in this case it is not easy situation when you'll try to point them out to they own mistake. Sami Khan wrote: On Sun, 2009-10-11 at 20:59 -0400, Jeff Greenberg wrote: _______________________________________________ consulting mailing list consulting@... http://lists.drupal.org/mailman/listinfo/consulting |
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Re: Copy Protection/DRM approach
by Nancy Wichmann
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I can
certainly sympathise with their concern, but like others have pointed out, the
best you can really do is make it a bit more difficult. A couple of years ago, I
visited a site that had some pictures I wanted to "collect" but they had
copy-and-paste overridden (I don't know how but have run into it a few times).
Then, for some strange reason, I happened to look at my browser cache files -
there they were, already on my disk waiting to be renamed and copied! It was
slightly more effort, but I still have some of those "copy-protected"
pictures.
"You can fool
some of the people all the time; and all of the people some of the time. But you
can't fool all the people all the time." The customer is going to have to pick
one of the "somes."
Nancy E.
Wichmann, PMP
Injustice
anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere. -- Dr. Martin L. King,
Jr.
_______________________________________________ consulting mailing list consulting@... http://lists.drupal.org/mailman/listinfo/consulting |
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Re: Copy Protection/DRM approach
by Cameron Eagans
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Please stay on topic. I think sexism was not the point of that sentence.
Wow, this thread certainly generated more traffic than I thought it would! My thought is this: if it is displayed on a user's monitor, it can be copied. Even if there were some magical javascript that you could insert that would disable screenshots, what's to stop a user from taking a picture of their monitor? What about virtualizing the OS and taking a screen shot from the host OS? I think I'll just let him know it's 100% impossible from stopping 100% of the copying that may or may not occur. ----- Cameron Eagans Owner, Black Storms Studios, LLC http://www.blackstormsstudios.com On Sun, Oct 11, 2009 at 5:35 PM, Ashley Maher <ashley.maher@...> wrote:
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Re: Copy Protection/DRM approach
by Bill Fitzgerald
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Hello, Cameron,
I would also point out to the client that they are putting resources into preventing something that is impossible to prevent; so, effort/resources (aka time/money) put into this functionality will never be successful. Then, ask the client what other aspects of their business could they devote resources to where they could have real returns? I they are dedicated to attempting to achieve what is not possible, to the expense of other areas of their business, I would attempt to work with them to help ensure that they spend their resources where they will have the greatest return. Cheers, Bill Cameron Eagans wrote: > > My thought is this: if it is displayed on a user's monitor, it can be > copied. Even if there were some magical javascript that you could insert > that would disable screenshots, what's to stop a user from taking a > picture of their monitor? What about virtualizing the OS and taking a > screen shot from the host OS? > > I think I'll just let him know it's 100% impossible from stopping 100% > of the copying that may or may not occur. > ----- > Cameron Eagans > Owner, Black Storms Studios, LLC > http://www.blackstormsstudios.com > > consulting mailing list consulting@... http://lists.drupal.org/mailman/listinfo/consulting |
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Re: Copy Protection/DRM approach
by Bhavin Joshi
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As per my experience and my own view, I believe, this can be achieved
at certain extent.
You just convert the content (nodes) to pdf and disable copy/paste/print for the content Regards. Bill Fitzgerald wrote: Hello, Cameron, I would also point out to the client that they are putting resources into preventing something that is impossible to prevent; so, effort/resources (aka time/money) put into this functionality will never be successful. Then, ask the client what other aspects of their business could they devote resources to where they could have real returns? I they are dedicated to attempting to achieve what is not possible, to the expense of other areas of their business, I would attempt to work with them to help ensure that they spend their resources where they will have the greatest return. Cheers, Bill Cameron Eagans wrote:My thought is this: if it is displayed on a user's monitor, it can be copied. Even if there were some magical javascript that you could insert that would disable screenshots, what's to stop a user from taking a picture of their monitor? What about virtualizing the OS and taking a screen shot from the host OS? I think I'll just let him know it's 100% impossible from stopping 100% of the copying that may or may not occur. ----- Cameron Eagans Owner, Black Storms Studios, LLC http://www.blackstormsstudios.com_______________________________________________ consulting mailing list consulting@... http://lists.drupal.org/mailman/listinfo/consulting --
Bhavin H. Joshi Mobile: +91 999 886 0979 Skype: bhavinjoshi19 http://joshics.in Portfolio: http://sites.google.com/site/bhavinhjoshi/portfolio [bhavinjosi.vcf] begin:vcard fn:Bhavin Joshi n:Joshi;Bhavin org:Joshi Consultancy Services adr:;;;Rajkot;Gujarat;360006;India email;internet:bhavinjosi@... title:Founder in Chief tel;cell:+91 999 886 0979 note:Skype/gtalk: bhavinjoshi19 x-mozilla-html:TRUE url:http://joshics.in version:2.1 end:vcard _______________________________________________ consulting mailing list consulting@... http://lists.drupal.org/mailman/listinfo/consulting |
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