Dammit...

[Birger Wathne]

This workstation was supposed to be for continuous reinstalls of f12 while I
continued running f11 on my production desktop. It was supposed to just be a
testbed to see what was new and how stable I could get it. But most of all I
wanted to test installations from live media, from DVD image and with
kickstart files.

This has all come to a halt. Why? I don't really know, but there is
something about this release that just feels so good I don't want to work
from my f11 system any more. Everything just flows better on the test
system. So I don't want to reinstall my test system because then I have to
work on my production system for a while. And I don't quite dare upgrading
my production desktop just yet, as you never know when rawhide hits you.

*Sigh*

There are issues, of course. Keyboard mapping in tsclient/rdesktop,
evolution-mapi being terribly unstable (but always getting better), having
to compile pidgin-sipe myself (when will someone do the review of the
package sitting in bugzilla?)... But this is really starting to make sense
as an office desktop.

I'll kick myself off this system again and reinstall it. Soon. I promise :-)

In the meantime kudos to everyone making fedora an impossibly stable
bleeding-edge distro.

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[rahulsundaram]

On 11/05/2009 04:34 PM, Birger Wathne wrote:

> There are issues, of course. Keyboard mapping in tsclient/rdesktop,

Bug report filed?

> evolution-mapi being terribly unstable (but always getting better), having
> to compile pidgin-sipe myself (when will someone do the review of the
> package sitting in bugzilla?)... But this is really starting to make sense
> as an office desktop.

I have taken it up for review

https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=512170

Thanks for your feedback.

Rahul

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[Birger Wathne]

Sitat Rahul Sundaram <sundaram@...>:

> On 11/05/2009 04:34 PM, Birger Wathne wrote:
>
> > There are issues, of course. Keyboard mapping in tsclient/rdesktop,
>
> Bug report filed?

two of them, yes... tsclient should be able to set the keyboard map for
rdesktop, and rdesktop shouldn't use LC* or LANG to guess the keyboard
layout. There must be other ways to get correct info.

> having
> > to compile pidgin-sipe myself (when will someone do the review of the
> > package sitting in bugzilla?)...
>
> I have taken it up for review
>
> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=512170

Thank *you* :-)

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["Jóhann B. Guðmundsson"]

On 11/05/2009 02:21 PM, Birger Wathne wrote:

> Sitat Rahul Sundaram <sundaram@...>:
>
>  
>> On 11/05/2009 04:34 PM, Birger Wathne wrote:
>>
>>    
>>> There are issues, of course. Keyboard mapping in tsclient/rdesktop,
>>>      
>> Bug report filed?
>>    
> two of them, yes... tsclient should be able to set the keyboard map for
> rdesktop, and rdesktop shouldn't use LC* or LANG to guess the keyboard
> layout. There must be other ways to get correct info.
>  

keytable from /etc/sysconfig/keyboard ?
/desktop/gnome/peripherals/keyboard/kbd/layouts ? ( Gnome - gconf )

JBG


[johannbg.vcf]

---

begin:vcard
fn:Johann B. Gudmundsson
n:Gudmundsson;Johann B.
org:Reiknistofnun - University of Iceland;IT Management
adr:Taeknigardi;;Dunhagi 5;Reykjavik;;107;Iceland
email;internet:johannbg@...
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[stan-56]

On Thu, 05 Nov 2009 12:04:30 +0100
Birger Wathne <birger@...> wrote:

> test system. So I don't want to reinstall my test system because then
> I have to work on my production system for a while. And I don't quite
> dare upgrading my production desktop just yet, as you never know when
> rawhide hits you.

I've been running F12/rawhide x86_64 as my production system since the
first week of September, and I only recall two significant issues, which
were quickly fixed.  Older hardware, basic use.  YMMV.

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[Birger Wathne]

Sitat stan <gryt2@...>:

> On Thu, 05 Nov 2009 12:04:30 +0100
> Birger Wathne <birger@...> wrote:
>
> > test system. So I don't want to reinstall my test system because then
> > I have to work on my production system for a while. And I don't quite
> > dare upgrading my production desktop just yet, as you never know when
> > rawhide hits you.
>
> I've been running F12/rawhide x86_64 as my production system since the
> first week of September, and I only recall two significant issues, which
> were quickly fixed.  Older hardware, basic use.  YMMV.

There were a few times I regretted running rawhide on my production
laptop/desktop during the f11 alpha period... So I have not dared do that
during this cycle. I agree that in hindsight it would have been safe to do
so this time.

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[Rick Stevens-3]

Birger Wathne wrote:

> Sitat stan <gryt2@...>:
>
>> On Thu, 05 Nov 2009 12:04:30 +0100
>> Birger Wathne <birger@...> wrote:
>>
>>> test system. So I don't want to reinstall my test system because then
>>> I have to work on my production system for a while. And I don't quite
>>> dare upgrading my production desktop just yet, as you never know when
>>> rawhide hits you.
>> I've been running F12/rawhide x86_64 as my production system since the
>> first week of September, and I only recall two significant issues, which
>> were quickly fixed.  Older hardware, basic use.  YMMV.
>
> There were a few times I regretted running rawhide on my production
> laptop/desktop during the f11 alpha period... So I have not dared do that
> during this cycle. I agree that in hindsight it would have been safe to do
> so this time.

Hindsight is 20-20, my friend.  F12 had its early teething issues, too.
You never know what's going to happen and I don't think anyone can blame
you for running a non-beta on things you depend on.

My main desktop is still F10 right now, partly because I didn't trust
F11 until about three months ago and partly because, well, I was just
too damned lazy to update it. That will change Friday.  My primary
desktop goes F11 and my labrat and hamster machines go F12Beta.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
- Rick Stevens, Systems Engineer                      ricks@... -
- AIM/Skype: therps2        ICQ: 22643734            Yahoo: origrps2 -
-                                                                    -
- ...Had this been an actual emergency, we would have fled in terror -
-                      and you'd be on your own, pal!                -
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[Scott Robbins]

On Thu, Nov 05, 2009 at 07:35:09PM +0100, Birger Wathne wrote:
> Sitat stan <gryt2@...>:
>
>
> There were a few times I regretted running rawhide on my production
> laptop/desktop during the f11 alpha period... So I have not dared do that
> during this cycle. I agree that in hindsight it would have been safe to do
> so this time.
>
I've been doing so, but today's update seems to have broken cron. :-(

As I use getmail to poll our imap server, it's a nuisance (though
scarcely a disaster--nuisance is a carefully chosen word.)

I haven't yet had a chance to check archives (errm, because I have to
keep stopping and manually running getmail? --sorry, couldn't resist).
Seriously, I think I saw something about this already, have to go
through archives when I get a chance.






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And I happen to know that factually that's true.

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[Scott Robbins]

On Thu, Nov 05, 2009 at 07:35:09PM +0100, Birger Wathne wrote:
> Sitat stan <gryt2@...>:
>
>
> There were a few times I regretted running rawhide on my production
> laptop/desktop during the f11 alpha period... So I have not dared do that
> during this cycle. I agree that in hindsight it would have been safe to do
> so this time.
>
I fixed my cron issue, but as I was in a hurry, not sure which fix
worked. :)  There werw no auth lines in /etc/pam.d/cron, so I copied
over a file from another machine.  Then, there was no /etc/shadow file,
only an /etc/shadow~ file.  <shrug>.

That *IS* the trouble with running it when you're working, you just
don't have time to find any useful information, and try various and
sundry hoping that one of them will work.  :)


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[Adam Williamson-3]

On Thu, 2009-11-05 at 14:28 -0500, Scott Robbins wrote:

> On Thu, Nov 05, 2009 at 07:35:09PM +0100, Birger Wathne wrote:
> > Sitat stan <gryt2@...>:
> >
> >
> > There were a few times I regretted running rawhide on my production
> > laptop/desktop during the f11 alpha period... So I have not dared do that
> > during this cycle. I agree that in hindsight it would have been safe to do
> > so this time.
> >
> I've been doing so, but today's update seems to have broken cron. :-(

Yeah, we borked it. Fix:

http://koji.fedoraproject.org/koji/buildinfo?buildID=139919

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[Scott Robbins]

On Thu, Nov 05, 2009 at 05:20:42PM -0800, Adam Williamson wrote:
>
> http://koji.fedoraproject.org/koji/buildinfo?buildID=139919

No problem, my boss asked why I hadn't answered his email, I gave him
your email address.  :)  

As mentioned, I worked around it by playing with pam.d/cron.  Not sure
if the shadow thing was related or not.  (I mentioned that I had no
/etc/shadow, only /etc/shadow~.)

So, copying over pam and/or running pwconv fixed it.  I'll grab the koji
build tomorrow morning, I guess.


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[Scott Robbins]

On Thu, Nov 05, 2009 at 10:58:35PM -0500, Scott Robbins wrote:
> On Thu, Nov 05, 2009 at 05:20:42PM -0800, Adam Williamson wrote:
> >
> > http://koji.fedoraproject.org/koji/buildinfo?buildID=139919
>

This is in reference to cron being broken.  I can now confirm that the
build fixed the issue for me.


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everyone to see. And I worried that it would be bruised or torn. And
more than anything in my life I wanted to keep it safe, to warm it
with my own.
 Buffy: That's beautiful. Or taken literally, incredibly gross.
 Angel: I was just thinking that, too.

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[rahulsundaram]

On 11/05/2009 07:51 PM, Birger Wathne wrote:

> Sitat Rahul Sundaram
>
>> On 11/05/2009 04:34 PM, Birger Wathne wrote:
>>
>>> There are issues, of course. Keyboard mapping in tsclient/rdesktop,
>>
>> Bug report filed?
>
> two of them, yes... tsclient should be able to set the keyboard map for
> rdesktop, and rdesktop shouldn't use LC* or LANG to guess the keyboard
> layout. There must be other ways to get correct info.
>
>> having
>>> to compile pidgin-sipe myself (when will someone do the review of the
>>> package sitting in bugzilla?)...
>>
>> I have taken it up for review
>>
>> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=512170

As a quick followup: Approved.

Rahul

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[Birger Wathne]

Sitat Rahul Sundaram <sundaram@...>:

> On 11/05/2009 07:51 PM, Birger Wathne wrote:
> > Sitat Rahul Sundaram
> >
> >> On 11/05/2009 04:34 PM, Birger Wathne wrote:
> >>
> >>> There are issues, of course. Keyboard mapping in tsclient/rdesktop,
> >>
> >> Bug report filed?
> >
> > two of them, yes... tsclient should be able to set the keyboard map
> for
> > rdesktop, and rdesktop shouldn't use LC* or LANG to guess the keyboard
> > layout. There must be other ways to get correct info.
> >
> >> having
> >>> to compile pidgin-sipe myself (when will someone do the review of
> the
> >>> package sitting in bugzilla?)...
> >>
> >> I have taken it up for review
> >>
> >> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=512170
>
> As a quick followup: Approved.

I can only say thank you to everyone involved. :-) With pidgin-sipe Fedora
will be feature complete for me as my office desktop except OCS compatible
video conferencing (doesn't exist yet AFAIK) and some commercial stuff that
Fedora would never touch anyway. Mostly the Citrix client with its ugly
dependency on OpenMotif. Probably also Flash, although Gnash is *almost*
there. For some pages gnash is definitely faster, for others flash is the
winner. The downside with gnash is that some pages still don't work at all.

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