Debian Project Leader Election 2009

[Debian Project Secretary]

Hi,

The post of Project Leader will become available on April the 17th,
2009.  So we will be holding an election for a Project Leader.  The
planned timeline looks like:

| Period     | Start                    | End                        |
|------------+--------------------------+----------------------------|
| Nomination | Sunday, March  1st, 2009 | Saterday, March  7th, 2009 |
| Campaign   | Sunday, March  8th, 2009 | Saterday, March 28th, 2009 |
| Vote       | Sunday, March 29th, 2009 | Saterday, April 11th, 2009 |

I suggest that potential DPL candidates start getting their
platform ready.  I would like to receive them before the campaign
period start.


Kurt

[Don Armstrong]

On Sat, 21 Feb 2009, Debian Project Secretary wrote:
> | Period     | Start                    | End                        |
> |------------+--------------------------+----------------------------|
> | Nomination | Sunday, March  1st, 2009 | Saterday, March  7th, 2009 |
> | Campaign   | Sunday, March  8th, 2009 | Saterday, March 28th, 2009 |
> | Vote       | Sunday, March 29th, 2009 | Saterday, April 11th, 2009 |
>
> I suggest that potential DPL candidates start getting their platform
> ready. I would like to receive them before the campaign period
> start.

As I've apparently volunteered to moderate the debate again,[0] it
falls to me to remind prospective candidates to calculate their
schedule for the week of the 21st->28th, and soon after they self
nominate forward the times during that week which they can absolutely
not debate as well as times that they'd rather not debate to me. [This
will help me to avoid having to schedule the debate smack in the
middle of some erstwhile candidate's coffin time.[0.577]]

Those who have suggestions for alterations to the format can also make
those known in a reply to this message (refer to last year's debate
format[1] if you've forgotten what we did last year, suffer from
amnesia or are incapable of forming long term memories or faking them
by the creative use of google and blogs).

People who'd like to help run the debate and/or collect questions can
also volunteer with a message to -vote.


Don Armstrong

0: I know I should heed my major professor's most important lesson
learned from his military service: never be first, never be last,
never volunteer... but I always seem to fall asleep before the
conclusion is reached.

0.577: Deity forbid that the day star attack you.[1.618]

1: http://svn.donarmstrong.com/don/trunk/projects/debian/dpl_debates/debate_rules_public.txt

1.618: Yes, for some reason I've adopted irrational footnote
numbering. Don't ask why.[2.718]

2.718: Ok... it has something to do with NIH R01 grant deadlines and
collaborators who are incapable of using LaTeX+BibTeX, and want to
make me (more) insane instead. [3.14]

3.14: Imagine a pithy footnote here. I've given up and gone to the
pub.
--
Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired
signifies in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are
not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed. This world in arms is
not spending money alone. It is spending the sweat of its laborers,
the genius of its scientists, the hopes of its children. This is not a
way of life at all in any true sense. Under the clouds of war, it is
humanity hanging on a cross of iron.
 -- Dwight Eisenhower, April 16, 1953

http://www.donarmstrong.com              http://rzlab.ucr.edu


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[Stefano Zacchiroli]

On Fri, Feb 27, 2009 at 02:10:38AM -0800, Don Armstrong wrote:
> 1.618: Yes, for some reason I've adopted irrational footnote
> numbering. Don't ask why.[2.718]

Actually, no.

As long as you are bound to write them in finite space using decimal
notation, your footnotes still look like terribly rational:
[1618/1000], [2718/1000] (I didn't bother to normalize).

SCNR :-P :-D

--
Stefano Zacchiroli -o- PhD in Computer Science \ PostDoc @ Univ. Paris 7
zack@{upsilon.cc,pps.jussieu.fr,debian.org} -<>- http://upsilon.cc/zack/
Dietro un grande uomo c'è ..|  .  |. Et ne m'en veux pas si je te tutoie
sempre uno zaino ...........| ..: |.... Je dis tu à tous ceux que j'aime

[MJ Ray-2]

Don Armstrong <don@...> wrote:
> People who'd like to help run the debate and/or collect questions can
> also volunteer with a message to -vote.

I'd like to do either, as previous years.

Regards,
--
MJR/slef
My Opinion Only: see http://people.debian.org/~mjr/
Please follow http://www.uk.debian.org/MailingLists/#codeofconduct


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[Steve Langasek]

On Fri, Feb 27, 2009 at 02:10:38AM -0800, Don Armstrong wrote:
> On Sat, 21 Feb 2009, Debian Project Secretary wrote:
> > | Period     | Start                    | End                        |
> > |------------+--------------------------+----------------------------|
> > | Nomination | Sunday, March  1st, 2009 | Saterday, March  7th, 2009 |
> > | Campaign   | Sunday, March  8th, 2009 | Saterday, March 28th, 2009 |
> > | Vote       | Sunday, March 29th, 2009 | Saterday, April 11th, 2009 |

> > I suggest that potential DPL candidates start getting their platform
> > ready. I would like to receive them before the campaign period
> > start.

> As I've apparently volunteered to moderate the debate again,[0] it
> falls to me to remind prospective candidates to calculate their
> schedule for the week of the 21st->28th, and soon after they self
> nominate forward the times during that week which they can absolutely
> not debate as well as times that they'd rather not debate to me. [This
> will help me to avoid having to schedule the debate smack in the
> middle of some erstwhile candidate's coffin time.[0.577]]

> Those who have suggestions for alterations to the format can also make
> those known in a reply to this message (refer to last year's debate
> format[1] if you've forgotten what we did last year, suffer from
> amnesia or are incapable of forming long term memories or faking them
> by the creative use of google and blogs).

> People who'd like to help run the debate and/or collect questions can
> also volunteer with a message to -vote.

I'd like to raise the question of whether these IRC debates are really
something we should have.  I know Don and the panelists put a lot of time
and effort into making the debates happen, which is part of why I ask the
question:  is it really worth all this effort?  What do we get out of a
three-hour real-time IRC debate that we don't already get from the
candidates' platforms and three weeks of discussion on debian-vote?

All I see that we get is a measure of how comfortable the candidate is with
(English-language) IRC as a medium, which is just not that interesting to me
as a factor in deciding who I'm going to vote for as DPL.  Is it to other
people, or are others getting something else out of this that I'm
overlooking?

For the last two election cycles, I've ignored the IRC debate completely,
and I don't feel that I missed anything.  Am I mistaken?

--
Steve Langasek                   Give me a lever long enough and a Free OS
Debian Developer                   to set it on, and I can move the world.
Ubuntu Developer                                    http://www.debian.org/
slangasek@...                                     vorlon@...


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[Don Armstrong]

On Fri, 27 Feb 2009, Steve Langasek wrote:
> I'd like to raise the question of whether these IRC debates are
> really something we should have. I know Don and the panelists put a
> lot of time and effort into making the debates happen, which is part
> of why I ask the question: is it really worth all this effort? What
> do we get out of a three-hour real-time IRC debate that we don't
> already get from the candidates' platforms and three weeks of
> discussion on debian-vote?

I know that I personally learn a lot, but that's primarily as a
consequence of having to prepare to ask non-naive questions.

I'm not sure if a me-too thread would be the right way to do this, but
I'd certainly be glad to know if it's something that people find
useful and intersting, because there's no question that doing the
debate consumes at least 30 person-hours of work with all of the
participants. [And I could easily spend the 5-6 hours that it takes me
to do them making debbugs better.]

Perhaps someone could set up a poll for DDs to indicate whether they
find the debates useful or not? [I think Jeroen was doing this last?]

If someone can't set up a poll, I'll send another message asking for
DDs to privately mail me (or maybe me-too to -vote) if they find the
debates useful.


Don Armstrong

--
"I was thinking seven figures," he said, "but I would have taken a
hundred grand. I'm not a greedy person." [All for a moldy bottle of
tropicana.]
 -- Sammi Hadzovic [in Andy Newman's 2003/02/14 NYT article.]
 http://www.nytimes.com/2003/02/14/nyregion/14EYEB.html

http://www.donarmstrong.com              http://rzlab.ucr.edu


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[Kevin Mark-6]

On Fri, Feb 27, 2009 at 09:50:24PM -0800, Steve Langasek wrote:

> On Fri, Feb 27, 2009 at 02:10:38AM -0800, Don Armstrong wrote:
> > On Sat, 21 Feb 2009, Debian Project Secretary wrote:
> > > | Period     | Start                    | End                        |
> > > |------------+--------------------------+----------------------------|
> > > | Nomination | Sunday, March  1st, 2009 | Saterday, March  7th, 2009 |
> > > | Campaign   | Sunday, March  8th, 2009 | Saterday, March 28th, 2009 |
> > > | Vote       | Sunday, March 29th, 2009 | Saterday, April 11th, 2009 |
>
> > > I suggest that potential DPL candidates start getting their platform
> > > ready. I would like to receive them before the campaign period
> > > start.
>
> > As I've apparently volunteered to moderate the debate again,[0] it
> > falls to me to remind prospective candidates to calculate their
> > schedule for the week of the 21st->28th, and soon after they self
> > nominate forward the times during that week which they can absolutely
> > not debate as well as times that they'd rather not debate to me. [This
> > will help me to avoid having to schedule the debate smack in the
> > middle of some erstwhile candidate's coffin time.[0.577]]
>
> > Those who have suggestions for alterations to the format can also make
> > those known in a reply to this message (refer to last year's debate
> > format[1] if you've forgotten what we did last year, suffer from
> > amnesia or are incapable of forming long term memories or faking them
> > by the creative use of google and blogs).
>
> > People who'd like to help run the debate and/or collect questions can
> > also volunteer with a message to -vote.
>
> I'd like to raise the question of whether these IRC debates are really
> something we should have.  I know Don and the panelists put a lot of time
> and effort into making the debates happen, which is part of why I ask the
> question:  is it really worth all this effort?  What do we get out of a
> three-hour real-time IRC debate that we don't already get from the
> candidates' platforms and three weeks of discussion on debian-vote?
>
> All I see that we get is a measure of how comfortable the candidate is with
> (English-language) IRC as a medium, which is just not that interesting to me
> as a factor in deciding who I'm going to vote for as DPL.  Is it to other
> people, or are others getting something else out of this that I'm
> overlooking?
>
> For the last two election cycles, I've ignored the IRC debate completely,
> and I don't feel that I missed anything.  Am I mistaken?

People gather their impressions and opinions about the candidates from a
variety of settings, contexts, dialogs, meetings, etc. There are various
inputs that folks use:  does the person share my views on (the DFSG, the
GPL, etc.), are they likeable, do they solve group conflicts well, are
they from my country, have I worked with them on a project, did I meet
them at a conference, and a lot of other things. Maybe folks decide who
they would like before the voting starts which would avoid the need for
anything like an IRC chat or a ML discussion. Would it useful to get a
sense of how DD's determine who they vote for? A simple multiple choice
questionaire with a few open ended options?
or maybe ask if the IRC chat affect their choice in any election?
-K

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[Jonas Smedegaard]

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On Sun, Mar 01, 2009 at 01:57:24PM -0500, Kevin Mark wrote:

>Maybe folks decide who they would like before the voting starts which
>would avoid the need for anything like an IRC chat or a ML discussion.
>Would it useful to get a sense of how DD's determine who they vote for?
>A simple multiple choice questionaire with a few open ended options?

If that is the case, then how about simply voting 1 month earlier :-P


  - Jonas

- --
* Jonas Smedegaard - idealist og Internet-arkitekt
* Tlf.: [phone]  Website: http://dr.jones.dk/

  [x] quote me freely  [ ] ask before reusing  [ ] keep private
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[MJ Ray-2]

Steve Langasek <vorlon@...> wrote: [...]
> I'd like to raise the question of whether these IRC debates are really
> something we should have.  I know Don and the panelists put a lot of time
> and effort into making the debates happen, which is part of why I ask the
> question:  is it really worth all this effort?  What do we get out of a
> three-hour real-time IRC debate that we don't already get from the
> candidates' platforms and three weeks of discussion on debian-vote?

I think the main thing I get is to see whether anyone is a hothead
like I was or whether their first instincts are to ramble or spout
buzzwords, as well as how well some of the candidates respond within
fairly tight deadlines.  Possibly interesting leadership skills.

Even so, I feel we could shorten it quite a bit without significant
loss and I think I've written as much before.  (Put your own joke
about debian being an endurance sport sometimes here.)

The more structured (and time-consuming) Q+A part could happen by
email beforehand, leaving just the moderated debate (questions from
audience) and free-for-all for IRC, maybe as:-

Start at 20:30 UTC
1. Introductions
2. Moderated Debate (up to 30 min, questions from audience,
candidates answer as soon as ready)
-- 5 minute break --
3. Free For All (30 min of insanity, panel questions from audience)
4. Closing Remarks
Stop by 21:55 UTC

Would that be better?
--
MJR/slef
My Opinion Only: see http://people.debian.org/~mjr/
Please follow http://www.uk.debian.org/MailingLists/#codeofconduct


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[Joerg Jaspert]

> Perhaps someone could set up a poll for DDs to indicate whether they
> find the debates useful or not? [I think Jeroen was doing this last?]

> If someone can't set up a poll, I'll send another message asking for
> DDs to privately mail me (or maybe me-too to -vote) if they find the
> debates useful.

http://doodle.com/nmpesn9t5fwv6ewe

--
bye, Joerg
* maxx hat weasel seine erste packung suse gebracht, der hat mich dafür
  später zu debian gebracht
<weasel> .oO( und jetzt ist der DD.  jeder macht mal fehler.. )
<maxx> du hast 2 gemacht.... du warst auch noch advocate :P


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[Joerg Jaspert]

>> If someone can't set up a poll, I'll send another message asking for
>> DDs to privately mail me (or maybe me-too to -vote) if they find the
>> debates useful.
> http://doodle.com/nmpesn9t5fwv6ewe

Having this run for 7 days now, we had 72 participants.

The question asked was
"Are the Debian DPL IRC Debates useful and should we keep them?"
and people could chose
"Yes", "No", "I don't care, never looked at one."

and we have

Yes             34
No              32
Don't care      12

>From that one can chose Yes as a final winning option, but it is a very
tiny margin. And some people did select Yes and No together.

--
bye, Joerg
> But i don't think that we talk a lot, as far as i can see, you live in
> the USA.
Australia. Only minor details like timezone and hemisphere but pretty
much the same. TZ is UTC+10


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[Don Armstrong]

On Mon, 09 Mar 2009, Joerg Jaspert wrote:

> >> If someone can't set up a poll, I'll send another message asking for
> >> DDs to privately mail me (or maybe me-too to -vote) if they find the
> >> debates useful.
> > http://doodle.com/nmpesn9t5fwv6ewe
>
> Having this run for 7 days now, we had 72 participants.
>
> The question asked was
> "Are the Debian DPL IRC Debates useful and should we keep them?"
> and people could chose
> "Yes", "No", "I don't care, never looked at one."
>
> and we have
>
> Yes             34
> No              32
> Don't care      12

Based on these results, my own personal thoughts, and some brief
discussion with the candidates, I'm leaning heavily towards not
expending the effort on a debate this time around.

I think much more could be gained from good discussions about the
platforms here in -vote, and followups with the candidates on IRC
(Sledge [Steve] and zack [Stefano] are highly active on IRC) than the
debate itself.

Also, since Stefano and Steve are in similar timezones, odds are good
that you all can get them to engage each other on #debian-devel on an
ad-hoc basis about the specific questions that bother you
specifically, without having to wait for the rigamarole of an IRC
debate.


Don Armstrong

--
"People selling drug paraphernalia ... are as much a part of drug
trafficking as silencers are a part of criminal homicide."
 -- John Brown, DEA Chief

http://www.donarmstrong.com              http://rzlab.ucr.edu


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