Designing Airships - bringing our collective knowledge together
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Designing Airships - bringing our collective knowledge together
by Andreas G
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Hello,
Many of us have started to collect information about designing Airships, some are even professionally designing them. Some hobbyist are building their own remote controlled airships, and some people are interested and just starting out gathering knowledge. Some might design airship by calculating on a sheet of paper or maybe excel, some might use specific tools. I believe that there are many many bits and pieces of knowledge spread around the community. The Building Industry has it's tools and patterns on how to build cities, houses and other thing. The Computer Industry has patterns on how do structure and build software and also uses many different tools to make their work easier and simpler. Even the Conventional Aerospace industry I would assume has a large portfolio of patterns, tools and reference material to refer to. The Airshipindustry might also have it but I don't believe it is as sophisticated and readily available. From personal experience I have to say it's rather hard to find the appropriate information or even the pointers to this information. To my information there is also no integrated development environment to develop an airship, that allows modelling, calculations and simulations in one software product. So my questions are: Do you think we need a resource that collects the best practices and patterns probably pointing to specific books for further reference? Do we need an Airship Development Software tool that helps us design airships in a computer aided design approach to have an integrated development environment. The question is not who will build it but who can see themself using it. And who would be willing to give the input in technical and business expertise regarding mathematical formulars, requirements aso. I would love to start such a project and spearhead the Software Development since I am a Computer Scientist but i would like to know if you see a need for it and if you would be willing to contribute. The Development model should be collaborative and the software or the resources and artifacts produced should be available for free as opensource so that everyone can use them enhance them and modify them. Let me know what you think I could envision specialized versions for designing remote controlled airships and passenger airships. Regards Andreas G -- Editor of Airshipworld -------------------------------------------------------- Visit the Airshipworld Blog at http://airshipworld.blogspot.com -------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ The-List mailing list The-List@... http://airshipworld.info/mailman/listinfo/the-list_airshipworld.info |
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Re: [AirshipList] Re: Designing Airships - bringing our collective knowledge together
by Andreas G
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Great Ideas Johannes,
I agree we should not build a monolithic rocket science tool. I think having induvidual plugins in a platform that allows the plugins to work together is the right approach. Starting small and growing by delivering additional plugins for dedicated tasks. Let's start structuring all this and let's get something out of the door quickly. Everyone is invited, please put your ideas into this. Even if you are no computer person, and are just a user, we need you to bring forward the requirements and biggest issues that require solving. Regards Andreas On Thu, Jul 3, 2008 at 11:16 AM, Johannes Eißing <johannes.eissing@...> wrote: > Hi Andreas and all, > > I'd love to contribute. Of course I can't spread everything, since this would be against my work contract. But there's an idea about a tool or two, I'm thinking about for several years, but never found the time to implement. I'll send you the details later. > > Keep in mind, there's not "The" airship to be designed for "The" mission. Reqiurements differ widely, and so does the design approach. I think a toolset or toolbox would be more suitable than a one-fits-all supertool. It's cruitial to keep this toolbox simple and clearly arranged, just a set of basic tools. A blacksmith's shop rather than a rocket scientists laboratry. > > Exchange of information/data between these modules should be simple, I think an xml based dataset would be great. > > To start with the basic tasks you first would need something to collect the requirements. It's important to define if your design is for dynamic positioning, racing or just for floating around, beeing cool (Yes even this can be a requirement). It helps avoiding extra work later on in trying to fulfil a requirement, that was never asked for, or that copes a further requirement. > > Then a tool for basic volume, buoyancy distribution and CB (Centre of Buoyancy) assessment. Buoyancy is "The" feature of airships, so this is a key module. It should be based on a SAC (Sectional Area Curve): You do not need to know the shape of the ship yet, but the lift. Or you could import a given shape to compute the buoyancy distribution. See FreeShip! or ArchimedesMB for reference (the latter uses an xml file format). Ballonet design should be placed in this module too. Later, you could use this dataset for the assessmetn of added mass distribution. > > Fin size, number and placement would be an extra tool. For a first conceptual design run, it should be based on statistical data, later it could compute simple aerodynamics. (see the "Fin and Rudder Wizard" in FreeSHip!). > > Basic weights and CG (Centre of Gravity) assessment could be the next step. My former colleagues used to say "in LTA, WEIGHTS IS GOD!". Weight and CG of the envelope, fins, propulsion should be estimated (ah, I missed the propulsion tool!). Later, mass distribution could be be updated, e.g. with measured weights. > W&B (weights and ballance) data should be based on the "Mass Properties Exchange (MPEX) Format" http://www.dbmass.com/mpex/stdframe.html > > Resistance and Propulsion > There are several methods of estimating drag or "resistance" as called in ship design. Quite an issue is the large range of Reynolds numbers, since the friction drag coefficient strongly varies with Re- number. For propeller design there are tools available, so I wouldn't load this toolset additionally. What is missing, is a simplified prop model, giving an efficiency based on disk loading. > > Anyway, the most common way to design a ship or aircraft is iterating your findings, e.g. in the so called design spiral. From design stage to design stage, you would need more and more specific tools. But don't make the mistage to start a design with a too specific tool: Start simple. And do not try to optimize automatically. At least not yet, since for now, it's more important to understand the coherences than trying to optimize something you are not fully aware of. > > Well, more later, > Best, Johannes > >> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- >> Von: "Andreas Grunewald" <airshipworld@...> >> Gesendet: 02.07.08 19:57:55 >> An: "Airship List" <airship-list@...> >> Betreff: [rc_airship_regatta] Re: [AirshipList] Re: Designing Airships - bringing our collective knowledge together > > >> Hey Great to get a reply. >> >> On Wed, Jul 2, 2008 at 2:35 PM, hindemith5 <glade@...> wrote: >> >> Do you think we need a resource that collects the best practices >> and >> >> patterns probably pointing to specific books for further reference? >> > >> > Yes, making such resources available would allow LTA/HTA airship >> > enthusiasts at all levels to design and experiment more productively. >> >> >> Awesome that you think so too. I will set up a Wiki on Airshipworld >> that we can use to start compiling stuff. >> >> > >> > >> >> Do we need an Airship Development Software tool that helps us >> design >> >> airships in a computer aided design approach to have an integrated >> >> development environment....if you would be willing to contribute. >> >> The Development model should be collaborative and the software or >> >> resources and artifacts produced should be available for free as >> >> opensource so that everyone can use them enhance them and modify > >> them. >> > >> > I really like the idea of an open source software for simulating >> > airships, since effects such as "apparent mass" that are important >> for >> > airship design are not always intuitive. >> >> Cool So let's do it. I believe we can create something. As Development >> Language I suggest Java, just because it's platform independendt and >> you can even develop in Groovy, Ruby, Python, Scala, Prolog and put >> that stuff directly into the Java programms. >> >> > >> > I am a graduate student at MIT, and could possily find information >> from: >> > Materials department -- composite materials models; >> > Ocean Engineering department -- hydrodynamic models taking into >> > account fluid drag and inertia forces, buoyancy, weight, mass >> inertia, >> > and elastic forces; >> > Aerospace department -- aerodynamic lift models >> > Earth & atmostpheric science department -- weather patterns >> >> That would be awesome, it would be cool if we could connect to those >> deparments, and maybe interest students to contribute maybe as part of >> their thesis or a project !? >> >> > It may even be worth starting a global club around this topic, named >> > something like OpenAirWare. Any ideas about how to obtain funding >> for >> > such an effort? >> >> I don't have any direct sources and I think we first have to outline >> our plan and start producing something, then get Universities and >> Companies involved who can get a benefit from the Project. Then we can >> approach Google or other large Organisations for Funding. The >> bootstrap has to be done on a shoestring budget. But webspace and dev >> environment are free so it costs only time and idealism right now ;-) >> >> >> Let me know what you think I could envision specialized versions >> for >> >> designing remote controlled airships and passenger airships. >> > >> > It may be worthwhile to try to leverage the free Google SketchUp >> > software for 3D design and visualization, as programs such as >> > SolidWorks are very expensive for non-professionals. >> >> Yes I have thought about Google SketchUp and there is probably a lot >> of other stuff that we can leverage. I am even thinking about using >> the Havok Physics Engine which is available for free from >> http://www.havok.com/content/view/17/30/ this could give us a good >> start. >> As Platform I would suggest the Eclipse Rich Client Platform for its >> high quality and the good framework it provides. >> >> So the Idea is there who is interested to contribute. >> >> Let everyone know. Let's build our own Airship CAD&IDE. (Computer >> Aided Design&Integrated Development Environment) >> >> Regards >> >> Andreas >> >> > >> > Best, >> > >> > Forrest Liau >> > >> >> -- >> Editor of Airshipworld >> -------------------------------------------------------- >> Visit the Airshipworld Blog at >> http://airshipworld.blogspot.com >> -------------------------------------------------------- >> __._,_.___ >> Messages in this topic (1) Reply (via web post) | Start a new >> topic >> Messages | Files | Photos | Links | Database | Polls | Members | >> Calendar >> >> > -- Editor of Airshipworld -------------------------------------------------------- Visit the Airshipworld Blog at http://airshipworld.blogspot.com -------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ The-List mailing list The-List@... http://airshipworld.info/mailman/listinfo/the-list_airshipworld.info |
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Re: [AirshipList] Re: Designing Airships - bringing our collective knowledge together
by Andreas Burkart
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Hi,
this is a very good plan, I adore the first results of this project. While looking at regular todays airships, please do not forget, that there will be a specific need for calculating of rigid airships. So there is a need for a rigid frame inside the airship, and the calculation of bodys with some edges. My special wish is a possibility for importing 3D Modells for further calculatings and importing datasets of airfoils. Best wishes, Andreas 2008/7/3 Andreas Grunewald <airshipworld@...>: > Great Ideas Johannes, > I agree we should not build a monolithic rocket science tool. I think > having induvidual plugins in a platform that allows the plugins to > work together is the right approach. Starting small and growing by > delivering additional plugins for dedicated tasks. > > Let's start structuring all this and let's get something out of the > door quickly. Everyone is invited, please put your ideas into this. > Even if you are no computer person, and are just a user, we need you > to bring forward the requirements and biggest issues that require > solving. > > Regards > > Andreas > > On Thu, Jul 3, 2008 at 11:16 AM, Johannes Eißing > <johannes.eissing@...> wrote: >> Hi Andreas and all, >> >> I'd love to contribute. Of course I can't spread everything, since this would be against my work contract. But there's an idea about a tool or two, I'm thinking about for several years, but never found the time to implement. I'll send you the details later. >> >> Keep in mind, there's not "The" airship to be designed for "The" mission. Reqiurements differ widely, and so does the design approach. I think a toolset or toolbox would be more suitable than a one-fits-all supertool. It's cruitial to keep this toolbox simple and clearly arranged, just a set of basic tools. A blacksmith's shop rather than a rocket scientists laboratry. >> >> Exchange of information/data between these modules should be simple, I think an xml based dataset would be great. >> >> To start with the basic tasks you first would need something to collect the requirements. It's important to define if your design is for dynamic positioning, racing or just for floating around, beeing cool (Yes even this can be a requirement). It helps avoiding extra work later on in trying to fulfil a requirement, that was never asked for, or that copes a further requirement. >> >> Then a tool for basic volume, buoyancy distribution and CB (Centre of Buoyancy) assessment. Buoyancy is "The" feature of airships, so this is a key module. It should be based on a SAC (Sectional Area Curve): You do not need to know the shape of the ship yet, but the lift. Or you could import a given shape to compute the buoyancy distribution. See FreeShip! or ArchimedesMB for reference (the latter uses an xml file format). Ballonet design should be placed in this module too. Later, you could use this dataset for the assessmetn of added mass distribution. >> >> Fin size, number and placement would be an extra tool. For a first conceptual design run, it should be based on statistical data, later it could compute simple aerodynamics. (see the "Fin and Rudder Wizard" in FreeSHip!). >> >> Basic weights and CG (Centre of Gravity) assessment could be the next step. My former colleagues used to say "in LTA, WEIGHTS IS GOD!". Weight and CG of the envelope, fins, propulsion should be estimated (ah, I missed the propulsion tool!). Later, mass distribution could be be updated, e.g. with measured weights. >> W&B (weights and ballance) data should be based on the "Mass Properties Exchange (MPEX) Format" http://www.dbmass.com/mpex/stdframe.html >> >> Resistance and Propulsion >> There are several methods of estimating drag or "resistance" as called in ship design. Quite an issue is the large range of Reynolds numbers, since the friction drag coefficient strongly varies with Re- number. For propeller design there are tools available, so I wouldn't load this toolset additionally. What is missing, is a simplified prop model, giving an efficiency based on disk loading. >> >> Anyway, the most common way to design a ship or aircraft is iterating your findings, e.g. in the so called design spiral. From design stage to design stage, you would need more and more specific tools. But don't make the mistage to start a design with a too specific tool: Start simple. And do not try to optimize automatically. At least not yet, since for now, it's more important to understand the coherences than trying to optimize something you are not fully aware of. >> >> Well, more later, >> Best, Johannes >> >>> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- >>> Von: "Andreas Grunewald" <airshipworld@...> >>> Gesendet: 02.07.08 19:57:55 >>> An: "Airship List" <airship-list@...> >>> Betreff: [rc_airship_regatta] Re: [AirshipList] Re: Designing Airships - bringing our collective knowledge together >> >> >>> Hey Great to get a reply. >>> >>> On Wed, Jul 2, 2008 at 2:35 PM, hindemith5 <glade@...> wrote: >>> >> Do you think we need a resource that collects the best practices >>> and >>> >> patterns probably pointing to specific books for further reference? >>> > >>> > Yes, making such resources available would allow LTA/HTA airship >>> > enthusiasts at all levels to design and experiment more productively. >>> >>> >>> Awesome that you think so too. I will set up a Wiki on Airshipworld >>> that we can use to start compiling stuff. >>> >>> > >>> > >>> >> Do we need an Airship Development Software tool that helps us >>> design >>> >> airships in a computer aided design approach to have an integrated >>> >> development environment....if you would be willing to contribute. >>> >> The Development model should be collaborative and the software or >>> >> resources and artifacts produced should be available for free as >>> >> opensource so that everyone can use them enhance them and modify > >>> them. >>> > >>> > I really like the idea of an open source software for simulating >>> > airships, since effects such as "apparent mass" that are important >>> for >>> > airship design are not always intuitive. >>> >>> Cool So let's do it. I believe we can create something. As Development >>> Language I suggest Java, just because it's platform independendt and >>> you can even develop in Groovy, Ruby, Python, Scala, Prolog and put >>> that stuff directly into the Java programms. >>> >>> > >>> > I am a graduate student at MIT, and could possily find information >>> from: >>> > Materials department -- composite materials models; >>> > Ocean Engineering department -- hydrodynamic models taking into >>> > account fluid drag and inertia forces, buoyancy, weight, mass >>> inertia, >>> > and elastic forces; >>> > Aerospace department -- aerodynamic lift models >>> > Earth & atmostpheric science department -- weather patterns >>> >>> That would be awesome, it would be cool if we could connect to those >>> deparments, and maybe interest students to contribute maybe as part of >>> their thesis or a project !? >>> >>> > It may even be worth starting a global club around this topic, named >>> > something like OpenAirWare. Any ideas about how to obtain funding >>> for >>> > such an effort? >>> >>> I don't have any direct sources and I think we first have to outline >>> our plan and start producing something, then get Universities and >>> Companies involved who can get a benefit from the Project. Then we can >>> approach Google or other large Organisations for Funding. The >>> bootstrap has to be done on a shoestring budget. But webspace and dev >>> environment are free so it costs only time and idealism right now ;-) >>> >>> >> Let me know what you think I could envision specialized versions >>> for >>> >> designing remote controlled airships and passenger airships. >>> > >>> > It may be worthwhile to try to leverage the free Google SketchUp >>> > software for 3D design and visualization, as programs such as >>> > SolidWorks are very expensive for non-professionals. >>> >>> Yes I have thought about Google SketchUp and there is probably a lot >>> of other stuff that we can leverage. I am even thinking about using >>> the Havok Physics Engine which is available for free from >>> http://www.havok.com/content/view/17/30/ this could give us a good >>> start. >>> As Platform I would suggest the Eclipse Rich Client Platform for its >>> high quality and the good framework it provides. >>> >>> So the Idea is there who is interested to contribute. >>> >>> Let everyone know. Let's build our own Airship CAD&IDE. (Computer >>> Aided Design&Integrated Development Environment) >>> >>> Regards >>> >>> Andreas >>> >>> > >>> > Best, >>> > >>> > Forrest Liau >>> > >>> >>> -- >>> Editor of Airshipworld >>> -------------------------------------------------------- >>> Visit the Airshipworld Blog at >>> http://airshipworld.blogspot.com >>> -------------------------------------------------------- >>> __._,_.___ >>> Messages in this topic (1) Reply (via web post) | Start a new >>> topic >>> Messages | Files | Photos | Links | Database | Polls | Members | >>> Calendar >>> >>> >> > > > > -- > Editor of Airshipworld > -------------------------------------------------------- > Visit the Airshipworld Blog at > http://airshipworld.blogspot.com > -------------------------------------------------------- > > _______________________________________________ > The-List mailing list > The-List@... > http://airshipworld.info/mailman/listinfo/the-list_airshipworld.info > _______________________________________________ The-List mailing list The-List@... http://airshipworld.info/mailman/listinfo/the-list_airshipworld.info |
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Re: [AirshipList] Re: Designing Airships - bringing our collective knowledge together
by Andreas G
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Hey Andreas,
it's true we need calculations for the rigid structure inside too. It's definetly another piece of the puzzle. Also importing 3D Models should be a possibility we will have to prioritise how we are going to do that but I believe it will be possible to implement that. Import as well as Export. Regards Andreas Grunewald -- Editor of Airshipworld -------------------------------------------------------- Visit the Airshipworld Blog at http://airshipworld.blogspot.com -------------------------------------------------------- On Thu, Jul 3, 2008 at 12:32 PM, Andreas Burkart <Andreas.Burkart@...> wrote: > Hi, > > this is a very good plan, I adore the first results of this project. > While looking at regular todays airships, please do not forget, that > there will be a specific need for calculating of rigid airships. > > So there is a need for a rigid frame inside the airship, and the > calculation of bodys with some edges. > > My special wish is a possibility for importing 3D Modells for further > calculatings > and importing datasets of airfoils. > > Best wishes, > Andreas > > 2008/7/3 Andreas Grunewald <airshipworld@...>: >> Great Ideas Johannes, >> I agree we should not build a monolithic rocket science tool. I think >> having induvidual plugins in a platform that allows the plugins to >> work together is the right approach. Starting small and growing by >> delivering additional plugins for dedicated tasks. >> >> Let's start structuring all this and let's get something out of the >> door quickly. Everyone is invited, please put your ideas into this. >> Even if you are no computer person, and are just a user, we need you >> to bring forward the requirements and biggest issues that require >> solving. >> >> Regards >> >> Andreas >> >> On Thu, Jul 3, 2008 at 11:16 AM, Johannes Eißing >> <johannes.eissing@...> wrote: >>> Hi Andreas and all, >>> >>> I'd love to contribute. Of course I can't spread everything, since this would be against my work contract. But there's an idea about a tool or two, I'm thinking about for several years, but never found the time to implement. I'll send you the details later. >>> >>> Keep in mind, there's not "The" airship to be designed for "The" mission. Reqiurements differ widely, and so does the design approach. I think a toolset or toolbox would be more suitable than a one-fits-all supertool. It's cruitial to keep this toolbox simple and clearly arranged, just a set of basic tools. A blacksmith's shop rather than a rocket scientists laboratry. >>> >>> Exchange of information/data between these modules should be simple, I think an xml based dataset would be great. >>> >>> To start with the basic tasks you first would need something to collect the requirements. It's important to define if your design is for dynamic positioning, racing or just for floating around, beeing cool (Yes even this can be a requirement). It helps avoiding extra work later on in trying to fulfil a requirement, that was never asked for, or that copes a further requirement. >>> >>> Then a tool for basic volume, buoyancy distribution and CB (Centre of Buoyancy) assessment. Buoyancy is "The" feature of airships, so this is a key module. It should be based on a SAC (Sectional Area Curve): You do not need to know the shape of the ship yet, but the lift. Or you could import a given shape to compute the buoyancy distribution. See FreeShip! or ArchimedesMB for reference (the latter uses an xml file format). Ballonet design should be placed in this module too. Later, you could use this dataset for the assessmetn of added mass distribution. >>> >>> Fin size, number and placement would be an extra tool. For a first conceptual design run, it should be based on statistical data, later it could compute simple aerodynamics. (see the "Fin and Rudder Wizard" in FreeSHip!). >>> >>> Basic weights and CG (Centre of Gravity) assessment could be the next step. My former colleagues used to say "in LTA, WEIGHTS IS GOD!". Weight and CG of the envelope, fins, propulsion should be estimated (ah, I missed the propulsion tool!). Later, mass distribution could be be updated, e.g. with measured weights. >>> W&B (weights and ballance) data should be based on the "Mass Properties Exchange (MPEX) Format" http://www.dbmass.com/mpex/stdframe.html >>> >>> Resistance and Propulsion >>> There are several methods of estimating drag or "resistance" as called in ship design. Quite an issue is the large range of Reynolds numbers, since the friction drag coefficient strongly varies with Re- number. For propeller design there are tools available, so I wouldn't load this toolset additionally. What is missing, is a simplified prop model, giving an efficiency based on disk loading. >>> >>> Anyway, the most common way to design a ship or aircraft is iterating your findings, e.g. in the so called design spiral. From design stage to design stage, you would need more and more specific tools. But don't make the mistage to start a design with a too specific tool: Start simple. And do not try to optimize automatically. At least not yet, since for now, it's more important to understand the coherences than trying to optimize something you are not fully aware of. >>> >>> Well, more later, >>> Best, Johannes >>> >>>> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- >>>> Von: "Andreas Grunewald" <airshipworld@...> >>>> Gesendet: 02.07.08 19:57:55 >>>> An: "Airship List" <airship-list@...> >>>> Betreff: [rc_airship_regatta] Re: [AirshipList] Re: Designing Airships - bringing our collective knowledge together >>> >>> >>>> Hey Great to get a reply. >>>> >>>> On Wed, Jul 2, 2008 at 2:35 PM, hindemith5 <glade@...> wrote: >>>> >> Do you think we need a resource that collects the best practices >>>> and >>>> >> patterns probably pointing to specific books for further reference? >>>> > >>>> > Yes, making such resources available would allow LTA/HTA airship >>>> > enthusiasts at all levels to design and experiment more productively. >>>> >>>> >>>> Awesome that you think so too. I will set up a Wiki on Airshipworld >>>> that we can use to start compiling stuff. >>>> >>>> > >>>> > >>>> >> Do we need an Airship Development Software tool that helps us >>>> design >>>> >> airships in a computer aided design approach to have an integrated >>>> >> development environment....if you would be willing to contribute. >>>> >> The Development model should be collaborative and the software or >>>> >> resources and artifacts produced should be available for free as >>>> >> opensource so that everyone can use them enhance them and modify > >>>> them. >>>> > >>>> > I really like the idea of an open source software for simulating >>>> > airships, since effects such as "apparent mass" that are important >>>> for >>>> > airship design are not always intuitive. >>>> >>>> Cool So let's do it. I believe we can create something. As Development >>>> Language I suggest Java, just because it's platform independendt and >>>> you can even develop in Groovy, Ruby, Python, Scala, Prolog and put >>>> that stuff directly into the Java programms. >>>> >>>> > >>>> > I am a graduate student at MIT, and could possily find information >>>> from: >>>> > Materials department -- composite materials models; >>>> > Ocean Engineering department -- hydrodynamic models taking into >>>> > account fluid drag and inertia forces, buoyancy, weight, mass >>>> inertia, >>>> > and elastic forces; >>>> > Aerospace department -- aerodynamic lift models >>>> > Earth & atmostpheric science department -- weather patterns >>>> >>>> That would be awesome, it would be cool if we could connect to those >>>> deparments, and maybe interest students to contribute maybe as part of >>>> their thesis or a project !? >>>> >>>> > It may even be worth starting a global club around this topic, named >>>> > something like OpenAirWare. Any ideas about how to obtain funding >>>> for >>>> > such an effort? >>>> >>>> I don't have any direct sources and I think we first have to outline >>>> our plan and start producing something, then get Universities and >>>> Companies involved who can get a benefit from the Project. Then we can >>>> approach Google or other large Organisations for Funding. The >>>> bootstrap has to be done on a shoestring budget. But webspace and dev >>>> environment are free so it costs only time and idealism right now ;-) >>>> >>>> >> Let me know what you think I could envision specialized versions >>>> for >>>> >> designing remote controlled airships and passenger airships. >>>> > >>>> > It may be worthwhile to try to leverage the free Google SketchUp >>>> > software for 3D design and visualization, as programs such as >>>> > SolidWorks are very expensive for non-professionals. >>>> >>>> Yes I have thought about Google SketchUp and there is probably a lot >>>> of other stuff that we can leverage. I am even thinking about using >>>> the Havok Physics Engine which is available for free from >>>> http://www.havok.com/content/view/17/30/ this could give us a good >>>> start. >>>> As Platform I would suggest the Eclipse Rich Client Platform for its >>>> high quality and the good framework it provides. >>>> >>>> So the Idea is there who is interested to contribute. >>>> >>>> Let everyone know. Let's build our own Airship CAD&IDE. (Computer >>>> Aided Design&Integrated Development Environment) >>>> >>>> Regards >>>> >>>> Andreas >>>> >>>> > >>>> > Best, >>>> > >>>> > Forrest Liau >>>> > >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Editor of Airshipworld >>>> -------------------------------------------------------- >>>> Visit the Airshipworld Blog at >>>> http://airshipworld.blogspot.com >>>> -------------------------------------------------------- >>>> __._,_.___ >>>> Messages in this topic (1) Reply (via web post) | Start a new >>>> topic >>>> Messages | Files | Photos | Links | Database | Polls | Members | >>>> Calendar >>>> >>>> >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> Editor of Airshipworld >> -------------------------------------------------------- >> Visit the Airshipworld Blog at >> http://airshipworld.blogspot.com >> -------------------------------------------------------- >> >> _______________________________________________ >> The-List mailing list >> The-List@... >> http://airshipworld.info/mailman/listinfo/the-list_airshipworld.info >> > > _______________________________________________ > The-List mailing list > The-List@... > http://airshipworld.info/mailman/listinfo/the-list_airshipworld.info > _______________________________________________ The-List mailing list The-List@... http://airshipworld.info/mailman/listinfo/the-list_airshipworld.info |
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Re: [AirshipList] Re: Designing Airships - bringing our collective knowledge together
by Navigaiter
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<<<
Keep in mind, there's not "The" airship to be designed for "The" mission. Reqiurements differ widely, and so does the design approach.>>> Definitely! Everyone has their pet designs. Mine is a solar-powered lifting body dirigible[!] The design project should have many branches so that potential designers could choose the design which turned them on the most and therfore they would contribute more than they would for somebody else's favorite design. Soon, one design would develop momentum and move ahead of the others and that would attract more helpers and it would move even faster. I see a designers' webpage with thumbnails of Sketchup 3D models of all submitted designs. Visitors could download the underlying Sketchup file and modify and improve it to their liking and offer it back to the webmaster. There's the bottleneck; someone's going to have to judge if the offer is good enough to publish. Otherwise some goofballs will want to publish their crap designs. Maybe their stuff could be put on an "honorable mention" page so that their ideas won't be totally ignored. And there might be a grain of merit in them. But I love the co-operative design concept. [see my moribund near space elevator design effort at members.aol.com/beanstalkr/project/ The process could be called WikiDesign. The Wikipedia is successful, so could wikidesign! cheers for high flight, Nav in Key West |
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Re: Designing Airships - bringing our collective knowledge together
by Navigaiter
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<<Development model should be collaborative and the software or the resources and artifacts produced should be available for free as opensource so that everyone can use them enhance them and modify them. Let me know what you think I could envision specialized versions for designing remote controlled airships and passenger airships.>> Yes, good ideas. The "groupware" should allow members to make changes and add notes to graphic sketches of other members and post them back to the website as suggested changes, but leaving the original sketch unchanged. Also the groupware needs the ability to branch off into new designs so that one idea isn't foisted onto anyone else in the design team. Many designs may be underway simultaneously so not just one stale idea is all that's on offer. |
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Re: Designing Airships - bringing our collective knowledge together
by dude6935
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I am interested in collaborating. I just setup a forum on smallblimps.lefora.com a few days ago for that purpose before I knew of this forum and thread. I can offer a lot of formulas I have come across in the process of codifying my blimps designs. For example you can get a good estimate of your volumetric drag coefficient based on fineness. Needed information is fineness(or length/width), the reciprocal of fineness (width/length), and Reynolds number based on length. =((0.172*(l/d)^(1/3))+(0.252*(d/l)^(-1.2))+(1.032*(d/l)^(-2.7)))/(Re^(1/6)) or on my excel file it is =((0.172*(B32)^(1/3))+(0.252*(B34)^(-1.2))+(1.032*(B34)^(-2.7)))/(K41^(1/6)) It should come out to about .002 depending on fineness. My excel file might be a good starting point if it were organized for someone else to easily use. |
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Re: Designing Airships - bringing our collective knowledge together
by Navigaiter
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<<<Do we need an Airship Development Software tool that helps us design airships in a computer aided design approach to have an integrated development environment. >>> We won't need CAD until we have manually sketched some good ideas which other fans like too. I have some sketches at my virtual design studio for a personal skyboat at skyboat.org Have a look. Anyone is welcome to mess with the sketches and modify them or whatever . High flight! Allen Nav |
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Re: [AirshipList] Re: Designing Airships - bringing our collective knowledge together
by dude6935
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I have posted an excel file I use for blimp design on the Small Blimps forum. It can be used to develop an applet of some type for blimp enthusiasts to use.
Here is the link. http://smallblimps.lefora.com/2009/06/23/design-excel-file/page1/
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