Discussion: Exchange / ASSP / acceptAllMail

[K Post]

(this was originally a discussion about the email interface not
working 100%, an issue that has been resolved.  It morphed into a
discussion about Exchange, so it was moved to a new thread.  The
original discussion appears quoted below)


Steve-

We're set up slightly differrently for inbound mail.

ASSP->EXCHANGE

there is no smarthost there.

Outbound mail follows your path

EXCHANGE -> ASSP -> SMARTHOST

For outbound mail, we just connect exchange directly to assp's
listenPort (port 25), the standard port that mail comes in to for
external senders.  Exchange doesn't need to authenticate, it just goes
through just like an authenticated sender would, because its IP is in
accept all mail.

How is your ASSP destined exchange outbound mail being accepted.
Through a relay port I presume?

We've been running like this for a couple of years, before relayport
was even an option.  Seems fine, but maybe I'm missing something and
relayport would be better.





2009/11/9 ?????????? ?????? (Steve Mallindine) <steve@...>:

- Hide quoted text -

> Ken,
>
> Just checked my setup, and I’m definitely not using ‘acceptAllMail’
>
> I’m also using:
>
> Smarthost -> ASSP -> Exchange
> Exchange -> ASSP -> Smarthost
>
> However, you mention that its going to ASSP port 25....is that the standard port 25 in SMTP Listen Port (listenPort) (in Network Setup) or is it Relay Port (relayPort) (in Relaying)
>
>
>
> Steve
>
>
> On 11/6/09 11:34 PM, "K Post" <nntp.post@...> wrote:
>
>> Hi Steve. This doesn't appear to be an exchange specific issue.  We're
>> using ASSP 2.0.1 rc 0.5.15 fyi. I just did a test from a remote user who is
>> using Eudora (yep, Eudora) and sending via authenitcated SMTP.  We currently
>> have white reporting set to reply to sender only. She got a reply that the
>> address was already whitelisted, which it is not.  The message never touched
>> exchange nor was MSFT outlook to blame.  I think there's a logic error
>> somewhere in ASSP all of a sudden. Anyway, the exchange setup (2003) is
>> pretty basic. The users who are set up on the exchange servers (not all users
>> are) connect to exchange using Outlook 2007.  One their mail hits the exchange
>> server, it goes out via smtp to our ASSP server (smarthost), which then sends
>> to the main mail server.  So: Exchange => ASSP port 25 => regular mail server
>> port 25 (all separate machines). We have the exchange IP setup as accept all
>> mail so that all mail coming from there gets added to the not spam folder.
>> We've been doing it this way for 3-4 years.  Whitelist additions worked fine
>> this way when we were using 1.4x.  The problem started with 2.0.1, though
>> I don't know when. Thanks. On Fri, Nov 6, 2009 at 2:02 PM,
>> ?????????? ?????? (Steve Mallindine) <steve@...> wrote: > Ken, > > How
>> have you got your ASSP/Exhange setup configured? > > I'm running 2 assp
>> servers connected to an Exchange 2007 edge > transport server, and I don't
>> remember ever setting acceptAllMail... > > Steve > > Sent from my iPhone > >
>> On 06.11.2009, at 19:56, "K Post" <nntp.post@...> wrote: > >>
>> Update. >> >> 1a) Whitelisting actually isn't working perfectly if set to
>> reply to >> sender.  I just did a test from an exchange user.  The exchange
>> box >> connects to assp to send mail out via its acceptAllMail Ip
>> address. >> >> The user (not admin) DID get a reply and have the email address
>> in the >> body of the email, but it said that it was already on the
>> whitelist, >> which is wasn't. >> >> It did only show the address once though.
>>  This is with reply set to >> sender only. >> >> >> 2)  I removed the
>> EmailAdmins entry complete, but when I sent an >> address from my address
>> (which used to be an EmailAdmins and also goes >> through exchange first), #2
>> in my first email still happened. >> Addresses not shown in the email. So
>> there's something else that is >> causing that problem...  I can't understand
>> why my, previously admin, >> address would never show the email in the report,
>> but the other >> addresses to.  They all follow the same path. >> >> >> These
>> tests all come through exchange first and then to assp via an >> acceptAllMail
>> IP address.  Could that be the root cause of all of >> this? >> >> --- >>
>> --- >> --- >>

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[Hill, Brett]

K Post wrote:
> Outbound mail follows your path
>
> EXCHANGE -> ASSP -> SMARTHOST
>
> For outbound mail, we just connect exchange directly to
> assp's listenPort (port 25), the standard port that mail
> comes in to for external senders.  Exchange doesn't need to
> authenticate, it just goes through just like an authenticated
> sender would, because its IP is in accept all mail.

You should not be using assp's listen port for outbound email from your
Exchange server. You should be using the Relay Port and Relay Host for
outbound messages.  Relay Port = the port ASSP listen's on to forward to
the smarthost.  Relay Host = the IP of your smarthost.

>> How is your ASSP destined exchange outbound mail being accepted.
>> Through a relay port I presume?
>
> We've been running like this for a couple of years, before
> relayport was even an option.  Seems fine, but maybe I'm
> missing something and relayport would be better.

As far as I know, Relayport and Relayhost have been in ASSP since it's
inception.  I know it's been there ever since I started using ASSP with
version 1.0.12.  It wouldn't make sense for it not to be there.

Kind Regards,
Brett



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[Маллиндайн Стивен (Steve Mallindine)]

Ken,

Your correct. My exchange (2007, edge transport) is connected to the relay
port. Under the description, that's how exchange/lotus notes will connect to
auto-update nonspam/spam db and whitelist.

I set it up this was after following some instructions (I'll try to find
them again)...

I'm guessing this must have been a design change between 1.x and 2.x - which
is why, in principle our setup's are the same, but the way we've implemented
is different (I mean, my install was fresh, and yours was an 'upgrade')




Steve

On 11/9/09 5:21 PM, "K Post" <nntp.post@...> wrote:

> (this was originally a discussion about the email interface not
> working 100%, an issue that has been resolved.  It morphed into a
> discussion about Exchange, so it was moved to a new thread.  The
> original discussion appears quoted below)
>
>
> Steve-
>
> We're set up slightly differrently for inbound mail.
>
> ASSP->EXCHANGE
>
> there is no smarthost there.
>
> Outbound mail follows your path
>
> EXCHANGE -> ASSP -> SMARTHOST
>
> For outbound mail, we just connect exchange directly to assp's
> listenPort (port 25), the standard port that mail comes in to for
> external senders.  Exchange doesn't need to authenticate, it just goes
> through just like an authenticated sender would, because its IP is in
> accept all mail.
>
> How is your ASSP destined exchange outbound mail being accepted.
> Through a relay port I presume?
>
> We've been running like this for a couple of years, before relayport
> was even an option.  Seems fine, but maybe I'm missing something and
> relayport would be better.
>
>
>
>
>
> 2009/11/9 ?????????? ?????? (Steve Mallindine) <steve@...>:
>
> - Hide quoted text -
>> Ken,
>>
>> Just checked my setup, and I¹m definitely not using ŒacceptAllMail¹
>>
>> I¹m also using:
>>
>> Smarthost -> ASSP -> Exchange
>> Exchange -> ASSP -> Smarthost
>>
>> However, you mention that its going to ASSP port 25....is that the standard
>> port 25 in SMTP Listen Port (listenPort) (in Network Setup) or is it Relay
>> Port (relayPort) (in Relaying)
>>
>>
>>
>> Steve
>>
>>
>> On 11/6/09 11:34 PM, "K Post" <nntp.post@...> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Steve. This doesn't appear to be an exchange specific issue.  We're
>>> using ASSP 2.0.1 rc 0.5.15 fyi. I just did a test from a remote user who is
>>> using Eudora (yep, Eudora) and sending via authenitcated SMTP.  We currently
>>> have white reporting set to reply to sender only. She got a reply that the
>>> address was already whitelisted, which it is not.  The message never touched
>>> exchange nor was MSFT outlook to blame.  I think there's a logic error
>>> somewhere in ASSP all of a sudden. Anyway, the exchange setup (2003) is
>>> pretty basic. The users who are set up on the exchange servers (not all
>>> users
>>> are) connect to exchange using Outlook 2007.  One their mail hits the
>>> exchange
>>> server, it goes out via smtp to our ASSP server (smarthost), which then
>>> sends
>>> to the main mail server.  So: Exchange => ASSP port 25 => regular mail
>>> server
>>> port 25 (all separate machines). We have the exchange IP setup as accept all
>>> mail so that all mail coming from there gets added to the not spam folder.
>>> We've been doing it this way for 3-4 years.  Whitelist additions worked fine
>>> this way when we were using 1.4x.  The problem started with 2.0.1, though
>>> I don't know when. Thanks. On Fri, Nov 6, 2009 at 2:02 PM,
>>> ?????????? ?????? (Steve Mallindine) <steve@...> wrote: > Ken, > > How
>>> have you got your ASSP/Exhange setup configured? > > I'm running 2 assp
>>> servers connected to an Exchange 2007 edge > transport server, and I don't
>>> remember ever setting acceptAllMail... > > Steve > > Sent from my iPhone > >
>>> On 06.11.2009, at 19:56, "K Post" <nntp.post@...> wrote: > >>
>>> Update. >> >> 1a) Whitelisting actually isn't working perfectly if set to
>>> reply to >> sender.  I just did a test from an exchange user.  The exchange
>>> box >> connects to assp to send mail out via its acceptAllMail Ip
>>> address. >> >> The user (not admin) DID get a reply and have the email
>>> address
>>> in the >> body of the email, but it said that it was already on the
>>> whitelist, >> which is wasn't. >> >> It did only show the address once
>>> though.
>>>  This is with reply set to >> sender only. >> >> >> 2)  I removed the
>>> EmailAdmins entry complete, but when I sent an >> address from my address
>>> (which used to be an EmailAdmins and also goes >> through exchange first),
>>> #2
>>> in my first email still happened. >> Addresses not shown in the email. So
>>> there's something else that is >> causing that problem...  I can't
>>> understand
>>> why my, previously admin, >> address would never show the email in the
>>> report,
>>> but the other >> addresses to.  They all follow the same path. >> >> >>
>>> These
>>> tests all come through exchange first and then to assp via an >>
>>> acceptAllMail
>>> IP address.  Could that be the root cause of all of >> this? >> >> --- >>
>>> --- >> --- >>
>
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[K Post]

We've been running since before the 1.0 release.  It's definitely
possible that the relay port was always there, and if it was, I
probably didn't understand what in the world it was at that point.

Either way, I think we both have functionally equivalent setups.  I
always like to make sure that there isn't a better way...

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[Маллиндайн Стивен (Steve Mallindine)]

I stand corrected :-)


On 11/9/09 5:34 PM, "Hill, Brett" <hillrb@...> wrote:

> As far as I know, Relayport and Relayhost have been in ASSP since it's
> inception.  I know it's been there ever since I started using ASSP with
> version 1.0.12.  It wouldn't make sense for it not to be there.


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[Маллиндайн Стивен (Steve Mallindine)]

This discussion has just made me realize something.....

There's no authentication/checking on the relay port....

Sure, the port should be protected from the internet via firewall.....but,
only one mistake is needed, and it could be open to abuse from INSIDE the
network....


Any thoughts?


Steve


On 11/9/09 5:40 PM, "K Post" <nntp.post@...> wrote:

> We've been running since before the 1.0 release.  It's definitely
> possible that the relay port was always there, and if it was, I
> probably didn't understand what in the world it was at that point.
>
> Either way, I think we both have functionally equivalent setups.  I
> always like to make sure that there isn't a better way...
>
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[K Post]

Yep, that could be an issue.  You could separate the machine from the
rest of the network, separate vlan or something.  Ours is on a
completely separate physical network.


On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 9:48 AM, Маллиндайн Стивен (Steve Mallindine)
<steve@...> wrote:

> This discussion has just made me realize something.....
>
> There's no authentication/checking on the relay port....
>
> Sure, the port should be protected from the internet via firewall.....but,
> only one mistake is needed, and it could be open to abuse from INSIDE the
> network....
>
>
> Any thoughts?
>
>
> Steve
>
>
> On 11/9/09 5:40 PM, "K Post" <nntp.post@...> wrote:
>
>> We've been running since before the 1.0 release.  It's definitely
>> possible that the relay port was always there, and if it was, I
>> probably didn't understand what in the world it was at that point.
>>
>> Either way, I think we both have functionally equivalent setups.  I
>> always like to make sure that there isn't a better way...
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal Reports 2008 30-Day
>> trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment - and focus on
>> what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with
>> Crystal Reports now.  http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july
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>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/assp-test
>
>
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[Маллиндайн Стивен (Steve Mallindine)]

Well, my assp servers and edge transport are in DMZ, so only smtp  
traffic to edge transport is from internal hub transports, so no  
internal clients can send smtp...

Steve

Sent from my iPhone

On 09.11.2009, at 18:02, "K Post" <nntp.post@...> wrote:

> Yep, that could be an issue.  You could separate the machine from the
> rest of the network, separate vlan or something.  Ours is on a
> completely separate physical network.
>
>
> On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 9:48 AM, Маллиндайн Стивен (Steve Mallindine)
> <steve@...> wrote:
>> This discussion has just made me realize something.....
>>
>> There's no authentication/checking on the relay port....
>>
>> Sure, the port should be protected from the internet via  
>> firewall.....but,
>> only one mistake is needed, and it could be open to abuse from  
>> INSIDE the
>> network....
>>
>>
>> Any thoughts?
>>
>>
>> Steve
>>
>>
>> On 11/9/09 5:40 PM, "K Post" <nntp.post@...> wrote:
>>
>>> We've been running since before the 1.0 release.  It's definitely
>>> possible that the relay port was always there, and if it was, I
>>> probably didn't understand what in the world it was at that point.
>>>
>>> Either way, I think we both have functionally equivalent setups.  I
>>> always like to make sure that there isn't a better way...
>>>
>>> ---
>>> ---
>>> ---
>>> ---
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal Reports  
>>> 2008 30-Day
>>> trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment -  
>>> and focus on
>>> what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with
>>> Crystal Reports now.  http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july
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>>> Assp-test mailing list
>>> Assp-test@...
>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/assp-test
>>
>>
>> ---
>> ---
>> ---
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>> and focus on
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>>
>
> ---
> ---
> ---
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[paul+as]

Sorry Steve, couldn't read any of this - wrong
charset?

On 9 Nov 2009 at 17:35, ¬®¬Ñ¬Ý¬Ý¬Ú¬ß¬Õ¬Ñ¬Û¬ß
¬³¬ä¬Ú¬Ó wrote:



etc.

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[Маллиндайн Стивен (Steve Mallindine)]

Paul,

Only my name is in different charset (Russian)...

Everything else is in latin :-)

Steve

Sent from my iPhone

On 09.11.2009, at 18:44, "Paul" <Paul+as@...> wrote:

> Sorry Steve, couldn't read any of this - wrong
> charset?
>
> On 9 Nov 2009 at 17:35, ¬®¬Ñ¬Ý¬Ý¬Ú¬ß¬Õ¬Ñ¬Û¬ß
> ¬³¬ä¬Ú¬Ó wrote:
>
>
>
> etc.
>
> ---
> ---
> ---
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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[Fritz Borgstedt]

ASSP development mailing list <assp-test@...>
schreibt:
>There's no authentication/checking on the relay port....

There is also no authentication/checking on IPs in acceptAllMail


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[Маллиндайн Стивен (Steve Mallindine)]

Sure, but the difference there is that acceptAllMail is restricted to  
specified IP, where relay port will be open...

The point being, any malware getting onto local LAN 'could' utililise  
this...

There's options for setting ISP ip address, is there/could there be  
anything to restrict local MTA addresses?

Steve

Sent from my iPhone

On 14.11.2009, at 14:18, "Fritz Borgstedt" <fb@...> wrote:

> ASSP development mailing list <assp-test@...>
> schreibt:
>> There's no authentication/checking on the relay port....
>
> There is also no authentication/checking on IPs in acceptAllMail
>
>
> ---
> ---
> ---
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