Dispute resolution mailing list
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Dispute resolution mailing list
by stevertigo-2
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I think its time we had a mailing list set up explicitly for all dispute
resolution issues. I mean wikien doesn't deal with these anymore, Arbcom and Medcom lists are closed-source, and* its been almost six years since the "formal process for handling disputes" got started in the first place (Oct 2 2003*). I have spoken. -Stevertigo _______________________________________________ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@... To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l |
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Re: Dispute resolution mailing list
by Al Tally
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On Sat, Jun 27, 2009 at 12:04 AM, stevertigo <stvrtg@...> wrote:
> I think its time we had a mailing list set up explicitly for all dispute > resolution issues. > I mean wikien doesn't deal with these anymore, Arbcom and Medcom lists are > closed-source, > and* its been almost six years since the "formal process for handling > disputes" got started in the first place (Oct 2 2003*). > > I have spoken. > -Stevertigo > _______________________________________________ > WikiEN-l mailing list > WikiEN-l@... > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l > What's wrong with the wiki, for wiki-related things? -- Alex (User:Majorly) _______________________________________________ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@... To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l |
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Re: Dispute resolution mailing list
by stevertigo-2
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On Fri, Jun 26, 2009 at 4:05 PM, Al Tally <majorly.wiki@...>wrote:
> > What's wrong with the wiki, for wiki-related things? I have not said anything was "wrong with the wiki," only that there should be a mailing list for dealing with dispute resolution. Can you clarify your question a bit? -Stevertigo _______________________________________________ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@... To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l |
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Re: Dispute resolution mailing list
by Thomas Dalton
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2009/6/27 stevertigo <stvrtg@...>:
> I think its time we had a mailing list set up explicitly for all dispute > resolution issues. > I mean wikien doesn't deal with these anymore, Arbcom and Medcom lists are > closed-source, > and* its been almost six years since the "formal process for handling > disputes" got started in the first place (Oct 2 2003*). Public dispute resolution happens on wiki, private dispute resolution happens on closed mailing lists. Where is the gap in the market that would be filled by a public dispute resolution mailing list? _______________________________________________ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@... To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l |
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Re: Dispute resolution mailing list
by Fred Bauder-2
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> I think its time we had a mailing list set up explicitly for all dispute
> resolution issues. > I mean wikien doesn't deal with these anymore, Arbcom and Medcom lists > are > closed-source, > and* its been almost six years since the "formal process for handling > disputes" got started in the first place (Oct 2 2003*). > > I have spoken. > -Stevertigo > No problem, we might as well take a stab at it. However, my experience here is of deadlock, not resolution. Deadlock characterized by sterile repetition of fixed positions. Fred _______________________________________________ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@... To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l |
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Re: Dispute resolution mailing list
by Fred Bauder-2
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> On Sat, Jun 27, 2009 at 12:04 AM, stevertigo <stvrtg@...> wrote:
> >> I think its time we had a mailing list set up explicitly for all >> dispute >> resolution issues. >> I mean wikien doesn't deal with these anymore, Arbcom and Medcom lists >> are >> closed-source, >> and* its been almost six years since the "formal process for handling >> disputes" got started in the first place (Oct 2 2003*). >> >> I have spoken. >> -Stevertigo >> _______________________________________________ >> WikiEN-l mailing list >> WikiEN-l@... >> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l >> > > What's wrong with the wiki, for wiki-related things? > > -- > Alex > (User:Majorly) > Entire revolutions can occur the wiki without coming to a user's attention. A mailing list devoted to dispute resolution would focus attention, even if all it did was point to significant on wiki discussiona. The functionaries list and, presumably the arbitration list already do this. A dispute resolution list would clue everyone in, not just functionaries and arbitrators. Fred _______________________________________________ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@... To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l |
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Re: Dispute resolution mailing list
by stevertigo-2
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On Fri, Jun 26, 2009 at 4:20 PM, Thomas Dalton <thomas.dalton@...>wrote:
> Public dispute resolution happens on wiki, private dispute resolution > happens on closed mailing lists. Where is the gap in the market that > would be filled by a public dispute resolution mailing list? > Thomas, the distinctions you present -- that dispute resolution has public and private dimensions, and that these different dimensions of dispute resolution require different technological formats -- is unknown to me. Is there policy in which the necessity for these distinctions is outlined? -Stevertigo _______________________________________________ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@... To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l |
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Re: Dispute resolution mailing list
by stevertigo-2
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On Fri, Jun 26, 2009 at 4:41 PM, Fred Bauder <fredbaud@...> wrote:
> On Fri, Jun 26, 2009 at 4:38 PM, Fred Bauder <fredbaud@...>wrote: > > No problem, we might as well take a stab at it. However, my experience > here is of deadlock, not resolution. Deadlock characterized by sterile > repetition of fixed positions. > Great. One of us should ask the techies to get it set up. [To Alex] Entire revolutions can occur the wiki without coming to a user's > attention. A mailing list devoted to dispute resolution would focus > attention, even if all it did was point to significant on wiki > discussions. The functionaries list and, presumably the arbitration list > already do this. A dispute resolution list would clue everyone in, not > just functionaries and arbitrators. > Indeed. Ostensibly, the list would deal with not just specific dispute resolutions, but with dispute resolution itself - how it works, etc. These concepts haven't changed much since late 2003, and as such there may need to be adjustments - people have ideas I'm sure. And of course, dealing with both specific cases and with general concepts in the same context makes it a bit of an integration issue. And that's another answer for Alex's question - integration based on a particular concept. If the concept was Electric Trains, then of course a separate mailing list wouldn't be justified. -Stevertigo _______________________________________________ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@... To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l |
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Re: Dispute resolution mailing list
by Marc Riddell
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>> On Sat, Jun 27, 2009 at 12:04 AM, stevertigo <stvrtg@...> wrote: >> >>> I think its time we had a mailing list set up explicitly for all >>> dispute >>> resolution issues. >>> I mean wikien doesn't deal with these anymore, Arbcom and Medcom lists >>> are >>> closed-source, >>> and* its been almost six years since the "formal process for handling >>> disputes" got started in the first place (Oct 2 2003*). >>> >>> I have spoken. >>> -Stevertigo >>> _______________________________________________ >>> WikiEN-l mailing list >>> WikiEN-l@... >>> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: >>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l >>> >> >> What's wrong with the wiki, for wiki-related things? >> >> -- >> Alex >> (User:Majorly) >> > > Entire revolutions can occur the wiki without coming to a user's > attention. A mailing list devoted to dispute resolution would focus > attention, even if all it did was point to significant on wiki > discussiona. The functionaries list and, presumably the arbitration list > already do this. A dispute resolution list would clue everyone in, not > just functionaries and arbitrators. > > Fred The List would need two (at least) Moderators: One that would be very familiar with the technical and policy aspects of the Project; and one that could focus on the interpersonal dialogue itself. Marc Riddell _______________________________________________ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@... To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l |
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Re: Dispute resolution mailing list
by Thomas Dalton
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2009/6/27 stevertigo <stvrtg@...>:
> On Fri, Jun 26, 2009 at 4:20 PM, Thomas Dalton <thomas.dalton@...>wrote: > >> Public dispute resolution happens on wiki, private dispute resolution >> happens on closed mailing lists. Where is the gap in the market that >> would be filled by a public dispute resolution mailing list? >> > > Thomas, the distinctions you present -- that dispute resolution has public > and private dimensions, and that these different dimensions of dispute > resolution require different technological formats -- is unknown to me. Is > there policy in which the necessity for these distinctions is outlined? I never said it was necessary, I just said that's the way it is. Unless you can describe a problem with a current system, I see no reason to change it. _______________________________________________ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@... To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l |
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Re: Dispute resolution mailing list
by stevertigo-2
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On Fri, Jun 26, 2009 at 5:05 PM, Marc Riddell <michaeldavid86@...>wrote:
> The List would need two (at least) Moderators: One that would be very > familiar with the technical and policy aspects of the Project; and one that > could focus on the interpersonal dialogue itself. > I nominate Fred for one. Angela for the other. -Stevertigo _______________________________________________ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@... To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l |
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Re: Dispute resolution mailing list
by Fred Bauder-2
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> 2009/6/27 stevertigo <stvrtg@...>:
>> On Fri, Jun 26, 2009 at 4:20 PM, Thomas Dalton >> <thomas.dalton@...>wrote: >> >>> Public dispute resolution happens on wiki, private dispute resolution >>> happens on closed mailing lists. Where is the gap in the market that >>> would be filled by a public dispute resolution mailing list? >>> >> >> Thomas, the distinctions you present -- that dispute resolution has >> public >> and private dimensions, and that these different dimensions of dispute >> resolution require different technological formats -- is unknown to me. >> Is >> there policy in which the necessity for these distinctions is outlined? > > I never said it was necessary, I just said that's the way it is. > Unless you can describe a problem with a current system, I see no > reason to change it. > I did, such matters are regularly discussed on the functionaries and arbitration lists, but sometimes not on any mailing list available to general users. If nothing else, it would be useful to point to significant ongoing controversies. Fred Bauder _______________________________________________ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@... To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l |
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Re: Dispute resolution mailing list
by Fred Bauder-2
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> On Fri, Jun 26, 2009 at 5:05 PM, Marc Riddell
> <michaeldavid86@...>wrote: > > >> The List would need two (at least) Moderators: One that would be very >> familiar with the technical and policy aspects of the Project; and one >> that >> could focus on the interpersonal dialogue itself. >> > > I nominate Fred for one. Angela for the other. > > -Stevertigo > Fine, but I don't know who sets up mailing lists. Fred _______________________________________________ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@... To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l |
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Re: Dispute resolution mailing list
by stevertigo-2
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On Fri, Jun 26, 2009 at 5:08 PM, Thomas Dalton <thomas.dalton@...>wrote:
> 2009/6/27 stevertigo <stvrtg@...>: > > > Thomas, the distinctions you present -- that dispute resolution has > public > > and private dimensions, and that these different dimensions of dispute > > resolution require different technological formats -- is unknown to me. > Is > > there policy in which the necessity for these distinctions is outlined? > > I never said it was necessary, I just said that's the way it is. > Unless you can describe a problem with a current system, I see no > reason to change it. > You could start a thread called "if it ain't broke don't fix it" and there we can debate whether the axiom applies to anything other than appliances. :-) -Stevertigo _______________________________________________ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@... To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l |
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Re: Dispute resolution mailing list
by Fred Bauder-2
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>> On Fri, Jun 26, 2009 at 5:05 PM, Marc Riddell
>> <michaeldavid86@...>wrote: >> >> >>> The List would need two (at least) Moderators: One that would be very >>> familiar with the technical and policy aspects of the Project; and one >>> that >>> could focus on the interpersonal dialogue itself. >>> >> >> I nominate Fred for one. Angela for the other. >> >> -Stevertigo >> > > Fine, but I don't know who sets up mailing lists. > > Fred > Contact a server admin on IRC in #wikimedia-tech Fred _______________________________________________ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@... To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l |
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Re: Dispute resolution mailing list
by George Herbert
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On Fri, Jun 26, 2009 at 5:17 PM, stevertigo<stvrtg@...> wrote:
> On Fri, Jun 26, 2009 at 5:08 PM, Thomas Dalton <thomas.dalton@...>wrote: > >> 2009/6/27 stevertigo <stvrtg@...>: >> > > >> > Thomas, the distinctions you present -- that dispute resolution has >> public >> > and private dimensions, and that these different dimensions of dispute >> > resolution require different technological formats -- is unknown to me. >> Is >> > there policy in which the necessity for these distinctions is outlined? >> >> I never said it was necessary, I just said that's the way it is. >> Unless you can describe a problem with a current system, I see no >> reason to change it. >> > > You could start a thread called "if it ain't broke don't fix it" and there > we can debate whether the axiom applies to anything other than appliances. > :-) I would actually suggest two lists, if we could do this - One, an announce-only list which summarized ongoing dispute resolution (arbcom cases, RFCs, community discussions of note elsewhere) for those who find following all the threads on-wiki daunting with real life time constraints. Two, discussion. Perhaps one list, but a regular posting of the announcements, but I think some people would be more interested in just announcements. I would participate in both, but I think that giving some people the option to just get the announcements is more respectful of their bandwidth... -- -george william herbert george.herbert@... _______________________________________________ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@... To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l |
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Re: Dispute resolution mailing list
by Thomas Dalton
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2009/6/27 stevertigo <stvrtg@...>:
> You could start a thread called "if it ain't broke don't fix it" and there > we can debate whether the axiom applies to anything other than appliances. > :-) That's not an axiom, it is a consequence of the definitions of "broke" and "fix". _______________________________________________ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@... To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l |
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Re: Dispute resolution mailing list
by stevertigo-2
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On Fri, Jun 26, 2009 at 5:21 PM, Fred Bauder <fredbaud@...> wrote:
> Contact a server admin on IRC in #wikimedia-tech > I've filed a bug on mediazilla - with a link to this discussion. -Stevertigo _______________________________________________ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@... To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l |
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Re: Dispute resolution mailing list
by stevertigo-2
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On Fri, Jun 26, 2009 at 5:23 PM, Thomas Dalton <thomas.dalton@...>wrote:
> 2009/6/27 stevertigo <stvrtg@...>: > > > You could start a thread called "if it ain't broke don't fix it" and > there > > we can debate whether the axiom applies to anything other than > appliances. > > :-) > > That's not an axiom, it is a consequence of the definitions of "broke" > and "fix". Hm. So you are saying that "definitions have consequences?" Speaking of definitions: You also previously used the term "problem:" Every edit conflict is a "problem" and DR itself is almost the same as it was 5.7 years ago. You also used the term "current system:" It is my understanding that a "convention" is not a "system." -Stevertigo _______________________________________________ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@... To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l |
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Re: Dispute resolution mailing list
by Fred Bauder-2
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> On Fri, Jun 26, 2009 at 5:17 PM, stevertigo<stvrtg@...> wrote:
>> On Fri, Jun 26, 2009 at 5:08 PM, Thomas Dalton >> <thomas.dalton@...>wrote: >> >>> 2009/6/27 stevertigo <stvrtg@...>: >>> >> >> >>> > Thomas, the distinctions you present -- that dispute resolution has >>> public >>> > and private dimensions, and that these different dimensions of >>> dispute >>> > resolution require different technological formats -- is unknown to >>> me. >>> Is >>> > there policy in which the necessity for these distinctions is >>> outlined? >>> >>> I never said it was necessary, I just said that's the way it is. >>> Unless you can describe a problem with a current system, I see no >>> reason to change it. >>> >> >> You could start a thread called "if it ain't broke don't fix it" and >> there >> we can debate whether the axiom applies to anything other than >> appliances. >> :-) > > I would actually suggest two lists, if we could do this - > > One, an announce-only list which summarized ongoing dispute resolution > (arbcom cases, RFCs, community discussions of note elsewhere) for > those who find following all the threads on-wiki daunting with real > life time constraints. > > Two, discussion. > > Perhaps one list, but a regular posting of the announcements, but I > think some people would be more interested in just announcements. I > would participate in both, but I think that giving some people the > option to just get the announcements is more respectful of their > bandwidth... > > > -- > -george william herbert > george.herbert@... > I think this is a good refinement of the idea. Fred _______________________________________________ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@... To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l |
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