Drupal themer needed for short gig

[Andrew R. Kelly]

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We are looking for a designer/themer to implement our client’s new corporate branding guidelines on their Drupal site. This effort will require updating the current site’s design elements including the fonts (type, color, size), color palette, images, and etc. The existing site layout and modules won’t be changed.

 

The images include:

-          about 25 custom images and another set of design elements to be changed to the new color

-          primary drop down menu bar

-          site logo

-          language buttons

-          form submit buttons (submit, go, view, apply, etc)

-          page headers

-          misc icons (featured, tools, resources, twitter, etc)

-          custom app icons (and generic app icon)

-          design elements (block rounded corners, block fade, etc)

-          home page custom image

-          misc images

 

Please respond with your rate/availability if you have the bandwidth in the next two weeks to make these changes.  I’ll supply more detailed requirements and the corporate guidelines in private.

 

Thanks,

 

Andrew K.

 

 

Andrew R. Kelly

President/CEO

Cognisync, Inc.

www.cognisync.com

 

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[jagdish chauhan]

Dear Andrew,

 

Here are various options we  can offer.

1) Full drupal website including template creation, html breakup and html integration which will take 8 working days  will cost you around $1000 USD.

2) If they already have template ready in psd then
HTml breakup + theme integration 6 working days will cost around $750-800 USD

3) If they have html ready
theme integration 4 working days will cost you around $500 USD

4) if you  already have implemented theme, we need reference site and scope of work to estimation it.

Regards

Dipali Naidu

Milecore

Skype:milecore.d

On Wed, Aug 17, 2011 at 2:40 AM, Andrew R. Kelly <arkelly@...> wrote:

We are looking for a designer/themer to implement our client’s new corporate branding guidelines on their Drupal site. This effort will require updating the current site’s design elements including the fonts (type, color, size), color palette, images, and etc. The existing site layout and modules won’t be changed.

 

The images include:

-          about 25 custom images and another set of design elements to be changed to the new color

-          primary drop down menu bar

-          site logo

-          language buttons

-          form submit buttons (submit, go, view, apply, etc)

-          page headers

-          misc icons (featured, tools, resources, twitter, etc)

-          custom app icons (and generic app icon)

-          design elements (block rounded corners, block fade, etc)

-          home page custom image

-          misc images

 

Please respond with your rate/availability if you have the bandwidth in the next two weeks to make these changes.  I’ll supply more detailed requirements and the corporate guidelines in private.

 

Thanks,

 

Andrew K.

 

 

Andrew R. Kelly

President/CEO

Cognisync, Inc.

www.cognisync.com

 

_______________________________________________
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consulting@...
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[Andrew R. Kelly]

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Got some great responses, thanks all.  We’re working through them now and will reach out soon.

 

Since this list is full of consultants I thought I’d throw out some sales advice, based on the content of some responses to this little request.  If you don’t get the gig it could be because:  (a) your response was canned and not on point - you have that many leads that you can’t tailor an email to the specific sender?, (b) you were upselling a suite of Drupal services without addressing the specific request, (c) you set forth bold and aggressive payment requirements before you even got the job, or lastly (d) you ignored the request for some information on your rate or availability.

 

Oh and (e) your rate is $2/hr.  While an intriguing number, I can’t ethically pay less for a site theme update than I do the lawn guy.

 

Just some observations from a buyer, take it with a grain of salt.  Lots of competition out there. 

 

Good selling,

Andrew

 

From: Andrew R. Kelly [mailto:arkelly@...]
Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2011 5:11 PM
To: 'consulting@...'
Subject: Drupal themer needed for short gig

 

We are looking for a designer/themer to implement our client’s new corporate branding guidelines on their Drupal site. This effort will require updating the current site’s design elements including the fonts (type, color, size), color palette, images, and etc. The existing site layout and modules won’t be changed.

 

The images include:

-          about 25 custom images and another set of design elements to be changed to the new color

-          primary drop down menu bar

-          site logo

-          language buttons

-          form submit buttons (submit, go, view, apply, etc)

-          page headers

-          misc icons (featured, tools, resources, twitter, etc)

-          custom app icons (and generic app icon)

-          design elements (block rounded corners, block fade, etc)

-          home page custom image

-          misc images

 

Please respond with your rate/availability if you have the bandwidth in the next two weeks to make these changes.  I’ll supply more detailed requirements and the corporate guidelines in private.

 

Thanks,

 

Andrew K.

 

 

Andrew R. Kelly

President/CEO

Cognisync, Inc.

www.cognisync.com

 

_______________________________________________
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[Adam Gregory-2]

Wow! Best email to come across this list in a good while. Made me laugh and it happens to be good advice also.
-----
Adam A. Gregory
Drupal Developer & Consultant
Web: AdamAGregory.com
Twitter: twitter.com/adamgregory
skype: aagregory2
Phone: [phone]

On Wed, Aug 17, 2011 at 9:32 AM, Andrew R. Kelly <arkelly@...> wrote:

Got some great responses, thanks all.  We’re working through them now and will reach out soon.

 

Since this list is full of consultants I thought I’d throw out some sales advice, based on the content of some responses to this little request.  If you don’t get the gig it could be because:  (a) your response was canned and not on point - you have that many leads that you can’t tailor an email to the specific sender?, (b) you were upselling a suite of Drupal services without addressing the specific request, (c) you set forth bold and aggressive payment requirements before you even got the job, or lastly (d) you ignored the request for some information on your rate or availability.

 

Oh and (e) your rate is $2/hr.  While an intriguing number, I can’t ethically pay less for a site theme update than I do the lawn guy.

 

Just some observations from a buyer, take it with a grain of salt.  Lots of competition out there. 

 

Good selling,

Andrew

 

From: Andrew R. Kelly [mailto:arkelly@...]
Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2011 5:11 PM
To: 'consulting@...'
Subject: Drupal themer needed for short gig

 

We are looking for a designer/themer to implement our client’s new corporate branding guidelines on their Drupal site. This effort will require updating the current site’s design elements including the fonts (type, color, size), color palette, images, and etc. The existing site layout and modules won’t be changed.

 

The images include:

-          about 25 custom images and another set of design elements to be changed to the new color

-          primary drop down menu bar

-          site logo

-          language buttons

-          form submit buttons (submit, go, view, apply, etc)

-          page headers

-          misc icons (featured, tools, resources, twitter, etc)

-          custom app icons (and generic app icon)

-          design elements (block rounded corners, block fade, etc)

-          home page custom image

-          misc images

 

Please respond with your rate/availability if you have the bandwidth in the next two weeks to make these changes.  I’ll supply more detailed requirements and the corporate guidelines in private.

 

Thanks,

 

Andrew K.

 

 

Andrew R. Kelly

President/CEO

Cognisync, Inc.

www.cognisync.com

 

_______________________________________________
consulting mailing list
consulting@...
http://lists.drupal.org/mailman/listinfo/consulting

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[Shankar Dhanasekaran-3]

Thanks Andrew for sharing these valuable information. I cannot agree with you more.

On Wed, Aug 17, 2011 at 10:02 PM, Andrew R. Kelly <arkelly@...> wrote:

Got some great responses, thanks all.  We’re working through them now and will reach out soon.

 

Since this list is full of consultants I thought I’d throw out some sales advice, based on the content of some responses to this little request.  If you don’t get the gig it could be because:  (a) your response was canned and not on point - you have that many leads that you can’t tailor an email to the specific sender?, (b) you were upselling a suite of Drupal services without addressing the specific request, (c) you set forth bold and aggressive payment requirements before you even got the job, or lastly (d) you ignored the request for some information on your rate or availability.

 

Oh and (e) your rate is $2/hr.  While an intriguing number, I can’t ethically pay less for a site theme update than I do the lawn guy.

 

Just some observations from a buyer, take it with a grain of salt.  Lots of competition out there. 

 

Good selling,

Andrew

 

From: Andrew R. Kelly [mailto:arkelly@...]
Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2011 5:11 PM
To: 'consulting@...'
Subject: Drupal themer needed for short gig

 

We are looking for a designer/themer to implement our client’s new corporate branding guidelines on their Drupal site. This effort will require updating the current site’s design elements including the fonts (type, color, size), color palette, images, and etc. The existing site layout and modules won’t be changed.

 

The images include:

-          about 25 custom images and another set of design elements to be changed to the new color

-          primary drop down menu bar

-          site logo

-          language buttons

-          form submit buttons (submit, go, view, apply, etc)

-          page headers

-          misc icons (featured, tools, resources, twitter, etc)

-          custom app icons (and generic app icon)

-          design elements (block rounded corners, block fade, etc)

-          home page custom image

-          misc images

 

Please respond with your rate/availability if you have the bandwidth in the next two weeks to make these changes.  I’ll supply more detailed requirements and the corporate guidelines in private.

 

Thanks,

 

Andrew K.

 

 

Andrew R. Kelly

President/CEO

Cognisync, Inc.

www.cognisync.com

 

_______________________________________________
consulting mailing list
consulting@...
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consulting@...
http://lists.drupal.org/mailman/listinfo/consulting

[Bert Van Kets-2]

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Dear Mr. Kelly,

Your answer today on the list convinced me I would not be competing with Idian, low budget offers. I have had very bad experiences with such competitions. Thanks for your honesty. It was very refreshing. I too am sometimes very disgusted with the language used and the offers made.

I am a free lancer with over 10 years of professional experience developing and designing web sites. I have been using PhotoShop for many years and created many web site designs. When the customer wants to use free/open source software I use The Gimp and/or InkScape. I always deliver both the original files and the converted images ready to use.
The programming languages I use are C#.Net, VB.Net, Java, JavaScript and PHP. Of course HTML, CSS and all the other common web site technologies are mastered perfectly. I am specialised on promoting web sites to search engines and have achieved many page 1 results.
I speak, read and write three languages fluently - Dutch, French and English. Multi language web sites are not a problem at all.

Some of my customers: Johnson and Johnson, IBM, InBev and Havlange Bonte. All these sites are intranet enterprise web sites.

I can offer you the designs you are asking for without any problem. I am available right now. My hourly rate is normally $25 USD, but I am willing to make you a special fixed price offer once you give me more precise details.

Sincerely hoping for a positive answer.

Bert Van Kets
Webmaster and web developer

On 16/08/2011 23:10, Andrew R. Kelly wrote:

We are looking for a designer/themer to implement our client’s new corporate branding guidelines on their Drupal site. This effort will require updating the current site’s design elements including the fonts (type, color, size), color palette, images, and etc. The existing site layout and modules won’t be changed.

 

The images include:

-          about 25 custom images and another set of design elements to be changed to the new color

-          primary drop down menu bar

-          site logo

-          language buttons

-          form submit buttons (submit, go, view, apply, etc)

-          page headers

-          misc icons (featured, tools, resources, twitter, etc)

-          custom app icons (and generic app icon)

-          design elements (block rounded corners, block fade, etc)

-          home page custom image

-          misc images

 

Please respond with your rate/availability if you have the bandwidth in the next two weeks to make these changes.  I’ll supply more detailed requirements and the corporate guidelines in private.

 

Thanks,

 

Andrew K.

 

 

Andrew R. Kelly

President/CEO

Cognisync, Inc.

www.cognisync.com

 

_______________________________________________
consulting mailing list
consulting@...
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consulting@...
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[Cameron Barrett-2]

Such irony...

I would not hire someone who doesn't understand the difference between
responding privately and responding to a mailing list.

Regards,

Cameron Barrett
http://cameronbarrett.com


On Thu, 18 Aug 2011 22:01:21 +0200, Bert Van Kets <mailing@...>
wrote:

> Dear Mr. Kelly,
>
> Your answer today on the list convinced me I would not be competing with
> Idian, low budget offers. I have had very bad experiences with such
> competitions. Thanks for your honesty. It was very refreshing. I too am
> sometimes very disgusted with the language used and the offers made.
>
> I am a free lancer with over 10 years of professional experience
> developing and designing web sites. I have been using PhotoShop for many
> years and created many web site designs. When the customer wants to use
> free/open source software I use The Gimp and/or InkScape. I always
> deliver both the original files and the converted images ready to use.
> The programming languages I use are C#.Net, VB.Net, Java, JavaScript and
> PHP. Of course HTML, CSS and all the other common web site technologies
> are mastered perfectly. I am specialised on promoting web sites to
> search engines and have achieved many page 1 results.
> I speak, read and write three languages fluently - Dutch, French and
> English. Multi language web sites are not a problem at all.
>
> Some of my customers: Johnson and Johnson, IBM, InBev and Havlange
> Bonte. All these sites are intranet enterprise web sites.
>
> I can offer you the designs you are asking for without any problem. I am
> available right now. My hourly rate is normally $25 USD, but I am
> willing to make you a special fixed price offer once you give me more
> precise details.
>
> Sincerely hoping for a positive answer.
>
> Bert Van Kets
> Webmaster and web developer

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[FredJones]

> Such irony...

Quite.

> I would not hire someone who doesn't understand the difference between
> responding privately and responding to a mailing list.

Yes, good morning people. Email skills should (one would think) be
among the most basic for a web professional.

Mr. Kelly, thank you for your review of the offers. I won't offer my
services because (A) presently I have zero bandwidth and (B) my rate
is more than $2 but I still wouldn't want to underbid your lawn guy
nor your barber.

Honestly, however, your second letter was quite interesting--shows the
basic dichotomy between those of us with far more work than we can
handle and those of us with no work. I suppose you can see now who it
is that responded to you. :)

Best of luck,
Fred
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[jagdish chauhan]

Hello,

 

 I cannot agree with you more.

On Wed, Aug 17, 2011 at 10:02 PM, Andrew R. Kelly <arkelly@...> wrote:

Got some great responses, thanks all.  We’re working through them now and will reach out soon.

 

Since this list is full of consultants I thought I’d throw out some sales advice, based on the content of some responses to this little request.  If you don’t get the gig it could be because:  (a) your response was canned and not on point - you have that many leads that you can’t tailor an email to the specific sender?, (b) you were upselling a suite of Drupal services without addressing the specific request, (c) you set forth bold and aggressive payment requirements before you even got the job, or lastly (d) you ignored the request for some information on your rate or availability.

 

Oh and (e) your rate is $2/hr.  While an intriguing number, I can’t ethically pay less for a site theme update than I do the lawn guy.

 

Just some observations from a buyer, take it with a grain of salt.  Lots of competition out there. 

 

Good selling,

Andrew

 

From: Andrew R. Kelly [mailto:arkelly@...]
Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2011 5:11 PM
To: 'consulting@...'
Subject: Drupal themer needed for short gig

 

We are looking for a designer/themer to implement our client’s new corporate branding guidelines on their Drupal site. This effort will require updating the current site’s design elements including the fonts (type, color, size), color palette, images, and etc. The existing site layout and modules won’t be changed.

 

The images include:

-          about 25 custom images and another set of design elements to be changed to the new color

-          primary drop down menu bar

-          site logo

-          language buttons

-          form submit buttons (submit, go, view, apply, etc)

-          page headers

-          misc icons (featured, tools, resources, twitter, etc)

-          custom app icons (and generic app icon)

-          design elements (block rounded corners, block fade, etc)

-          home page custom image

-          misc images

 

Please respond with your rate/availability if you have the bandwidth in the next two weeks to make these changes.  I’ll supply more detailed requirements and the corporate guidelines in private.

 

Thanks,

 

Andrew K.

 

 

Andrew R. Kelly

President/CEO

Cognisync, Inc.

www.cognisync.com

 

_______________________________________________
consulting mailing list
consulting@...
http://lists.drupal.org/mailman/listinfo/consulting

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consulting@...
http://lists.drupal.org/mailman/listinfo/consulting

[Gordon Heydon]

Hi,

You guys seem to be turning into a bunch of old woman, so the guy hit the reply all instead of reply. I know for myself I hit reply all for 99.9% of all my response, and then he gets bashed for a simple mistake. 

We should be encouraging people not putting them down for small mistakes. I this is not in the sprit of the community that I have been involved in for the last 10 years.

Gordon.

On 19/08/2011, at 6:36 AM, jagdish chauhan wrote:

Hello,

 

 I cannot agree with you more.

On Wed, Aug 17, 2011 at 10:02 PM, Andrew R. Kelly <arkelly@...> wrote:

Got some great responses, thanks all.  We’re working through them now and will reach out soon.

 

Since this list is full of consultants I thought I’d throw out some sales advice, based on the content of some responses to this little request.  If you don’t get the gig it could be because:  (a) your response was canned and not on point - you have that many leads that you can’t tailor an email to the specific sender?, (b) you were upselling a suite of Drupal services without addressing the specific request, (c) you set forth bold and aggressive payment requirements before you even got the job, or lastly (d) you ignored the request for some information on your rate or availability.

 

Oh and (e) your rate is $2/hr.  While an intriguing number, I can’t ethically pay less for a site theme update than I do the lawn guy.

 

Just some observations from a buyer, take it with a grain of salt.  Lots of competition out there. 

 

Good selling,

Andrew

 

From: Andrew R. Kelly [mailto:arkelly@...]
Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2011 5:11 PM
To: 'consulting@...'
Subject: Drupal themer needed for short gig

 

We are looking for a designer/themer to implement our client’s new corporate branding guidelines on their Drupal site. This effort will require updating the current site’s design elements including the fonts (type, color, size), color palette, images, and etc. The existing site layout and modules won’t be changed.

 

The images include:

-          about 25 custom images and another set of design elements to be changed to the new color

-          primary drop down menu bar

-          site logo

-          language buttons

-          form submit buttons (submit, go, view, apply, etc)

-          page headers

-          misc icons (featured, tools, resources, twitter, etc)

-          custom app icons (and generic app icon)

-          design elements (block rounded corners, block fade, etc)

-          home page custom image

-          misc images

 

Please respond with your rate/availability if you have the bandwidth in the next two weeks to make these changes.  I’ll supply more detailed requirements and the corporate guidelines in private.

 

Thanks,

 

Andrew K.

 

 

Andrew R. Kelly

President/CEO

Cognisync, Inc.

www.cognisync.com

 

_______________________________________________
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consulting@...
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[Farez Rahman]

Say it brother! Amen! LOL

Farez

> Since this list is full of consultants I thought I’d throw out some sales
> advice, based on the content of some responses to this little request.  If
> you don’t get the gig it could be because:  (a) your response was canned and
> not on point - you have that many leads that you can’t tailor an email to
> the specific sender?, (b) you were upselling a suite of Drupal services
> without addressing the specific request, (c) you set forth bold and
> aggressive payment requirements before you even got the job, or lastly (d)
> you ignored the request for some information on your rate or availability.
>
>
>
> Oh and (e) your rate is $2/hr.  While an intriguing number, I can’t
> ethically pay less for a site theme update than I do the lawn guy.
>
>
>
> Just some observations from a buyer, take it with a grain of salt.  Lots of
> competition out there.
>
>
>
> Good selling,
>
> Andrew
>

--
Redkey Digital | bespoke websites and software
http://redkeydigital.com

Coming Soon: http://drupalhire.net
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[Vivek Dubey]

I totally agree with you Gordon. We should help and collaborate not discourage.

Vivek


-----Original Message-----
From: Gordon Heydon <gordon@...>
Sender: consulting-bounces@...
Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2011 08:01:13
To: A list for Drupal consultants and Drupal service/hosting providers<consulting@...>
Reply-To: A list for Drupal consultants and Drupal service/hosting providers
        <consulting@...>
Subject: Re: [consulting] Drupal themer needed for short gig

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[Franz Glauber]

On Fri, Aug 19, 2011 at 4:01 AM, Gordon Heydon <gordon@...> wrote:

Hi,

You guys seem to be turning into a bunch of old woman, so the guy hit the reply all instead of reply. I know for myself I hit reply all for 99.9% of all my response, and then he gets bashed for a simple mistake. 

We should be encouraging people not putting them down for small mistakes. I this is not in the sprit of the community that I have been involved in for the last 10 years.

Gordon.

Despite your sexist comment, you're right, Gordon.

--
Franz

http://ciudaddelpico.com

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[Joe Hyde]

I for one would never hire someone that uses "reply all". It is
clearly a sign of 'shoot from the hip' unprofessionalism.

As for calling me an old lady, that's not sexist. It is homophobic. I
am not old, nor do I cross dress. Obviously in your world, there's
something wrong with both.  Remember, to be a good American, we must
always respect the freak show on parade more than the average regular
Joes. Now genuflect and prepare for your appearance on Oprah, or be
ostracized for the rest of your career!

HA!



On Sat, Aug 20, 2011 at 8:48 AM, Franz Glauber <franz.glauber@...> wrote:

>
>
> On Fri, Aug 19, 2011 at 4:01 AM, Gordon Heydon <gordon@...> wrote:
>>
>> Hi,
>> You guys seem to be turning into a bunch of old woman, so the guy hit the
>> reply all instead of reply. I know for myself I hit reply all for 99.9% of
>> all my response, and then he gets bashed for a simple mistake.
>> We should be encouraging people not putting them down for small mistakes.
>> I this is not in the sprit of the community that I have been involved in for
>> the last 10 years.
>> Gordon.
>
> Despite your sexist comment, you're right, Gordon.
>
> --
> Franz
>
> http://ciudaddelpico.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> consulting mailing list
> consulting@...
> http://lists.drupal.org/mailman/listinfo/consulting
>
>

--
Joe Hyde
Interactive Advertising
http://www.hydeinteractive.com
[phone]
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[Brandon Dawson]

One and all:

These subsequent replies to this thread are not material for a public
list, which is especially and doubly-recursively ironic considering you
yourselves are pointing it out. It is also totally unnecessary to call
out one-time mistakes in excess of their real damage or harm, which,
again, just compounds the problem.

Mr. Kelly should bear in mind that some of his points cut both ways. I'd
say most online-only contractors learn fairly quickly NOT to invest vast
amounts of time in proposals that they'll likely never hear back on,
often based on vague, imprecise specifications. His case was somewhat
different, since he was very specific and to-the-point about what he
needed.

But he still should understand that marketing services like these in an
international marketplace filled with hucksters and sweatshops is
inherently a numbers game where those who try to "do it right" are
already at a disadvantage, just by doing so. While I sympathize and
agree with his summary with regards to the efficacy of excessively
"boilerplate" responses, and applaud the extent to which it was a slap
in the face of those who brazenly and knowingly "do it wrong", it's also
a situation where "it is what it is."

Mr. Van Kets, IMHO, has already been chastened enough for what I'm quite
sure was a one-time mistake, given that it's the only time I've seen his
name in several months' membership on this list.

Messrs. Barrett, Jones, Heyman, Hyde, and others, would all do well to
reflect on the mistakes they made starting out (we all make them) and
could have reached out to the errant "Reply-All'er" privately, every bit
as easily as clicking "Reply All" themselves and deploying the
flamethrowers, in accordance with their own sarcastic retorts and/or advice.

Enough's enough, folks. Let's let this one drop, or at least keep it
on-point, professional, and free of personal digs or insults, since the
actual subject matter is a good topic for newer consultants/contractors.

-- Brandon Dawson

On 08/20/2011 10:12 AM, Joe Hyde wrote:

> I for one would never hire someone that uses "reply all". It is
> clearly a sign of 'shoot from the hip' unprofessionalism.
>
> As for calling me an old lady, that's not sexist. It is homophobic. I
> am not old, nor do I cross dress. Obviously in your world, there's
> something wrong with both.  Remember, to be a good American, we must
> always respect the freak show on parade more than the average regular
> Joes. Now genuflect and prepare for your appearance on Oprah, or be
> ostracized for the rest of your career!
>
> HA!
>
>
>
> On Sat, Aug 20, 2011 at 8:48 AM, Franz Glauber<franz.glauber@...>  wrote:
>>
>> On Fri, Aug 19, 2011 at 4:01 AM, Gordon Heydon<gordon@...>  wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>> You guys seem to be turning into a bunch of old woman, so the guy hit the
>>> reply all instead of reply. I know for myself I hit reply all for 99.9% of
>>> all my response, and then he gets bashed for a simple mistake.
>>> We should be encouraging people not putting them down for small mistakes.
>>> I this is not in the sprit of the community that I have been involved in for
>>> the last 10 years.
>>> Gordon.
>> Despite your sexist comment, you're right, Gordon.
>>
>> --
>> Franz
>>
>> http://ciudaddelpico.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> consulting mailing list
>> consulting@...
>> http://lists.drupal.org/mailman/listinfo/consulting
>>
>>
>
>

_______________________________________________
consulting mailing list
consulting@...
http://lists.drupal.org/mailman/listinfo/consulting

[George DeMet]

This might also be a good point to gently remind folks of the Drupal community Code of Conduct: http://drupal.org/dcoc

On Aug 20, 2011, at 6:40 PM, Brandon Dawson <brandon@...> wrote:

> One and all:
>
> These subsequent replies to this thread are not material for a public
> list, which is especially and doubly-recursively ironic considering you
> yourselves are pointing it out. It is also totally unnecessary to call
> out one-time mistakes in excess of their real damage or harm, which,
> again, just compounds the problem.
>
> Mr. Kelly should bear in mind that some of his points cut both ways. I'd
> say most online-only contractors learn fairly quickly NOT to invest vast
> amounts of time in proposals that they'll likely never hear back on,
> often based on vague, imprecise specifications. His case was somewhat
> different, since he was very specific and to-the-point about what he
> needed.
>
> But he still should understand that marketing services like these in an
> international marketplace filled with hucksters and sweatshops is
> inherently a numbers game where those who try to "do it right" are
> already at a disadvantage, just by doing so. While I sympathize and
> agree with his summary with regards to the efficacy of excessively
> "boilerplate" responses, and applaud the extent to which it was a slap
> in the face of those who brazenly and knowingly "do it wrong", it's also
> a situation where "it is what it is."
>
> Mr. Van Kets, IMHO, has already been chastened enough for what I'm quite
> sure was a one-time mistake, given that it's the only time I've seen his
> name in several months' membership on this list.
>
> Messrs. Barrett, Jones, Heyman, Hyde, and others, would all do well to
> reflect on the mistakes they made starting out (we all make them) and
> could have reached out to the errant "Reply-All'er" privately, every bit
> as easily as clicking "Reply All" themselves and deploying the
> flamethrowers, in accordance with their own sarcastic retorts and/or advice.
>
> Enough's enough, folks. Let's let this one drop, or at least keep it
> on-point, professional, and free of personal digs or insults, since the
> actual subject matter is a good topic for newer consultants/contractors.
>
> -- Brandon Dawson
>
> On 08/20/2011 10:12 AM, Joe Hyde wrote:
>> I for one would never hire someone that uses "reply all". It is
>> clearly a sign of 'shoot from the hip' unprofessionalism.
>>
>> As for calling me an old lady, that's not sexist. It is homophobic. I
>> am not old, nor do I cross dress. Obviously in your world, there's
>> something wrong with both.  Remember, to be a good American, we must
>> always respect the freak show on parade more than the average regular
>> Joes. Now genuflect and prepare for your appearance on Oprah, or be
>> ostracized for the rest of your career!
>>
>> HA!
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Aug 20, 2011 at 8:48 AM, Franz Glauber<franz.glauber@...>  wrote:
>>>
>>> On Fri, Aug 19, 2011 at 4:01 AM, Gordon Heydon<gordon@...>  wrote:
>>>> Hi,
>>>> You guys seem to be turning into a bunch of old woman, so the guy hit the
>>>> reply all instead of reply. I know for myself I hit reply all for 99.9% of
>>>> all my response, and then he gets bashed for a simple mistake.
>>>> We should be encouraging people not putting them down for small mistakes.
>>>> I this is not in the sprit of the community that I have been involved in for
>>>> the last 10 years.
>>>> Gordon.
>>> Despite your sexist comment, you're right, Gordon.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Franz
>>>
>>> http://ciudaddelpico.com
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> consulting mailing list
>>> consulting@...
>>> http://lists.drupal.org/mailman/listinfo/consulting
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> consulting mailing list
> consulting@...
> http://lists.drupal.org/mailman/listinfo/consulting

_______________________________________________
consulting mailing list
consulting@...
http://lists.drupal.org/mailman/listinfo/consulting

[Brandon Dawson]

Exactly. We're talking about two different issues here; those who "don't
get it" with regards to how to handle their business communications
aren't going to be persuaded by sarcasm; for whatever reason, they think
their approach works for them, and based on some of my prior
experiences, those too-good-to-be-true low prices and spamtastic e-mail
practices do still work. I'd love to dish on my own experiences cleaning
up after such shops, but this just isn't the place for it.

Suffice it to say that my long-term expectation is that such tactics
won't work forever, and the irritation caused by such in the
here-and-now will be replaced with schadenfreude at those firms' failure
in due course.

And for folks responding to other folks making a one-time "reply-all"
mistake, consider that you're flaming a potential contributor to the
project, whether by code or by other means.

George just said it all in one line: read and abide the DCoC. It's what
separates this community from the others, and if we lose that, there's
nothing separating us from <ahem> other communities. ;)

==========================================================
Brandon Dawson :: WeLaunch.IT
Phone: [phone] :: E-mail: brandon@...
==========================================================


On 08/20/2011 02:07 PM, George DeMet wrote:

> This might also be a good point to gently remind folks of the Drupal community Code of Conduct: http://drupal.org/dcoc
>
> On Aug 20, 2011, at 6:40 PM, Brandon Dawson<brandon@...>  wrote:
>
>> One and all:
>>
>> These subsequent replies to this thread are not material for a public
>> list, which is especially and doubly-recursively ironic considering you
>> yourselves are pointing it out. It is also totally unnecessary to call
>> out one-time mistakes in excess of their real damage or harm, which,
>> again, just compounds the problem.
>>
>> Mr. Kelly should bear in mind that some of his points cut both ways. I'd
>> say most online-only contractors learn fairly quickly NOT to invest vast
>> amounts of time in proposals that they'll likely never hear back on,
>> often based on vague, imprecise specifications. His case was somewhat
>> different, since he was very specific and to-the-point about what he
>> needed.
>>
>> But he still should understand that marketing services like these in an
>> international marketplace filled with hucksters and sweatshops is
>> inherently a numbers game where those who try to "do it right" are
>> already at a disadvantage, just by doing so. While I sympathize and
>> agree with his summary with regards to the efficacy of excessively
>> "boilerplate" responses, and applaud the extent to which it was a slap
>> in the face of those who brazenly and knowingly "do it wrong", it's also
>> a situation where "it is what it is."
>>
>> Mr. Van Kets, IMHO, has already been chastened enough for what I'm quite
>> sure was a one-time mistake, given that it's the only time I've seen his
>> name in several months' membership on this list.
>>
>> Messrs. Barrett, Jones, Heyman, Hyde, and others, would all do well to
>> reflect on the mistakes they made starting out (we all make them) and
>> could have reached out to the errant "Reply-All'er" privately, every bit
>> as easily as clicking "Reply All" themselves and deploying the
>> flamethrowers, in accordance with their own sarcastic retorts and/or advice.
>>
>> Enough's enough, folks. Let's let this one drop, or at least keep it
>> on-point, professional, and free of personal digs or insults, since the
>> actual subject matter is a good topic for newer consultants/contractors.
>>
>> -- Brandon Dawson
>>
>> On 08/20/2011 10:12 AM, Joe Hyde wrote:
>>> I for one would never hire someone that uses "reply all". It is
>>> clearly a sign of 'shoot from the hip' unprofessionalism.
>>>
>>> As for calling me an old lady, that's not sexist. It is homophobic. I
>>> am not old, nor do I cross dress. Obviously in your world, there's
>>> something wrong with both.  Remember, to be a good American, we must
>>> always respect the freak show on parade more than the average regular
>>> Joes. Now genuflect and prepare for your appearance on Oprah, or be
>>> ostracized for the rest of your career!
>>>
>>> HA!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sat, Aug 20, 2011 at 8:48 AM, Franz Glauber<franz.glauber@...>   wrote:
>>>> On Fri, Aug 19, 2011 at 4:01 AM, Gordon Heydon<gordon@...>   wrote:
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>> You guys seem to be turning into a bunch of old woman, so the guy hit the
>>>>> reply all instead of reply. I know for myself I hit reply all for 99.9% of
>>>>> all my response, and then he gets bashed for a simple mistake.
>>>>> We should be encouraging people not putting them down for small mistakes.
>>>>> I this is not in the sprit of the community that I have been involved in for
>>>>> the last 10 years.
>>>>> Gordon.
>>>> Despite your sexist comment, you're right, Gordon.
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Franz
>>>>
>>>> http://ciudaddelpico.com
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> consulting mailing list
>>>> consulting@...
>>>> http://lists.drupal.org/mailman/listinfo/consulting
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> consulting mailing list
>> consulting@...
>> http://lists.drupal.org/mailman/listinfo/consulting
> _______________________________________________
> consulting mailing list
> consulting@...
> http://lists.drupal.org/mailman/listinfo/consulting
>

_______________________________________________
consulting mailing list
consulting@...
http://lists.drupal.org/mailman/listinfo/consulting

[hassafrass]

Wow - thank you for really helping me see that this list is really not a professional forum. I wouldn't solicit or accept work in this arena.

Best of luck



On Aug 20, 2011, at 7:12 AM, Joe Hyde <joeghyde@...> wrote:

> I for one would never hire someone that uses "reply all". It is
> clearly a sign of 'shoot from the hip' unprofessionalism.
>
> As for calling me an old lady, that's not sexist. It is homophobic. I
> am not old, nor do I cross dress. Obviously in your world, there's
> something wrong with both.  Remember, to be a good American, we must
> always respect the freak show on parade more than the average regular
> Joes. Now genuflect and prepare for your appearance on Oprah, or be
> ostracized for the rest of your career!
>
> HA!
>
>
>
> On Sat, Aug 20, 2011 at 8:48 AM, Franz Glauber <franz.glauber@...> wrote:
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Aug 19, 2011 at 4:01 AM, Gordon Heydon <gordon@...> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi,
>>> You guys seem to be turning into a bunch of old woman, so the guy hit the
>>> reply all instead of reply. I know for myself I hit reply all for 99.9% of
>>> all my response, and then he gets bashed for a simple mistake.
>>> We should be encouraging people not putting them down for small mistakes.
>>> I this is not in the sprit of the community that I have been involved in for
>>> the last 10 years.
>>> Gordon.
>>
>> Despite your sexist comment, you're right, Gordon.
>>
>> --
>> Franz
>>
>> http://ciudaddelpico.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> consulting mailing list
>> consulting@...
>> http://lists.drupal.org/mailman/listinfo/consulting
>>
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Joe Hyde
> Interactive Advertising
> http://www.hydeinteractive.com
> [phone]
> _______________________________________________
> consulting mailing list
> consulting@...
> http://lists.drupal.org/mailman/listinfo/consulting

_______________________________________________
consulting mailing list
consulting@...
http://lists.drupal.org/mailman/listinfo/consulting

[Bert Van Kets-2]

People, please calm down.

The "mistake" I made is clicking the reply button instead of
copy-pasting the e-mail address of the sender (the list e-mail address
is set as the reply e-mail address). If you think this is definite proof
of bad professionalism, that is your good right, but having over 20
years of professional experience in IT makes me think differently. The
conversation about the offers was already out in the open and I was also
not the first to publicly reply to the RFQ. FYI: I did reply to Mr Kelly
privately as well.

At first I decided not to answer to the list and let this thing die -
the "mistake", in my eyes, was so small I thought nothing of it, but as
things got pulled out of context I think a response is in order. Hence
this message.

I will not be tempted into making any remarks leading to the further
continuation of this flame war. Flame wars never provide anything
positive, they only result in frustration, stress and lost time.

Let's all get back to business and if you'd excuse me I have a Drupal 7
theme to develop.

Sincerely.

Bert Van Kets
_______________________________________________
consulting mailing list
consulting@...
http://lists.drupal.org/mailman/listinfo/consulting

[Andrew R. Kelly]

Thanks for all the great candidates for this little gig.  I could have done
without the 50 extra emails in my inbox with the same subject line that are
full of diatribes (did someone go off on some homophobe angle?  Did I
actually read that?).  Your need to express yourselves added an extra step
in my effort to extract money from the big companies and trickle it down our
stack.

One discouraged professional (Emma) is exasperated with this list and I
don't blame her, sometimes I think I'm being punked when I read some of
these threads.  I'll say to her that we've found some quality talent and
great consultative advice from people lurking on this list (key word
"lurking"), I'd be willing to bet that describes 75% of the membership.  If
you can see your way through the noise it's a great asset.

Best of luck to all,
Andrew

-----Original Message-----
From: consulting-bounces@... [mailto:consulting-bounces@...]
On Behalf Of Brandon Dawson
Sent: Saturday, August 20, 2011 1:40 PM
To: A list for Drupal consultants and Drupal service/hosting providers
Subject: Re: [consulting] Drupal themer needed for short gig

One and all:

These subsequent replies to this thread are not material for a public list,
which is especially and doubly-recursively ironic considering you yourselves
are pointing it out. It is also totally unnecessary to call out one-time
mistakes in excess of their real damage or harm, which, again, just
compounds the problem.

Mr. Kelly should bear in mind that some of his points cut both ways. I'd say
most online-only contractors learn fairly quickly NOT to invest vast amounts
of time in proposals that they'll likely never hear back on, often based on
vague, imprecise specifications. His case was somewhat different, since he
was very specific and to-the-point about what he needed.

But he still should understand that marketing services like these in an
international marketplace filled with hucksters and sweatshops is inherently
a numbers game where those who try to "do it right" are already at a
disadvantage, just by doing so. While I sympathize and agree with his
summary with regards to the efficacy of excessively "boilerplate" responses,
and applaud the extent to which it was a slap in the face of those who
brazenly and knowingly "do it wrong", it's also a situation where "it is
what it is."

Mr. Van Kets, IMHO, has already been chastened enough for what I'm quite
sure was a one-time mistake, given that it's the only time I've seen his
name in several months' membership on this list.

Messrs. Barrett, Jones, Heyman, Hyde, and others, would all do well to
reflect on the mistakes they made starting out (we all make them) and could
have reached out to the errant "Reply-All'er" privately, every bit as easily
as clicking "Reply All" themselves and deploying the flamethrowers, in
accordance with their own sarcastic retorts and/or advice.

Enough's enough, folks. Let's let this one drop, or at least keep it
on-point, professional, and free of personal digs or insults, since the
actual subject matter is a good topic for newer consultants/contractors.

-- Brandon Dawson

On 08/20/2011 10:12 AM, Joe Hyde wrote:

> I for one would never hire someone that uses "reply all". It is
> clearly a sign of 'shoot from the hip' unprofessionalism.
>
> As for calling me an old lady, that's not sexist. It is homophobic. I
> am not old, nor do I cross dress. Obviously in your world, there's
> something wrong with both.  Remember, to be a good American, we must
> always respect the freak show on parade more than the average regular
> Joes. Now genuflect and prepare for your appearance on Oprah, or be
> ostracized for the rest of your career!
>
> HA!
>
>
>
> On Sat, Aug 20, 2011 at 8:48 AM, Franz Glauber<franz.glauber@...>

wrote:
>>
>> On Fri, Aug 19, 2011 at 4:01 AM, Gordon Heydon<gordon@...>
wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>> You guys seem to be turning into a bunch of old woman, so the guy
>>> hit the reply all instead of reply. I know for myself I hit reply
>>> all for 99.9% of all my response, and then he gets bashed for a simple
mistake.
>>> We should be encouraging people not putting them down for small
mistakes.

>>> I this is not in the sprit of the community that I have been
>>> involved in for the last 10 years.
>>> Gordon.
>> Despite your sexist comment, you're right, Gordon.
>>
>> --
>> Franz
>>
>> http://ciudaddelpico.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> consulting mailing list
>> consulting@...
>> http://lists.drupal.org/mailman/listinfo/consulting
>>
>>
>
>

_______________________________________________
consulting mailing list
consulting@...
http://lists.drupal.org/mailman/listinfo/consulting

_______________________________________________
consulting mailing list
consulting@...
http://lists.drupal.org/mailman/listinfo/consulting