Early Easter

[Sepp Rothwangl]

Is this true?

>  Here's the interesting info. This year is the earliest Easter any of
>  us will ever see the rest of our lives! And only the most elderly of
>  our population have ever seen it this early (95 years old or above!).
>  And none of us have ever, or will ever, see it a day earlier! Here
>  are the facts:
>
>  1) The next time Easter will be this early (March 23) will be the
>  year 2228 (220 years from now). The last time it was this early was
>  1913 (so if you're 95 or older, you are the only ones that were
>  around for that!).
>
>  2) The next time it will be a day earlier, March 22, will be in the
>  year 2285 (277 years from now). The last time it was on March 22 was
>  1818. So, no one alive today has or will ever see it any earlier than
>  this year!
>

Servus
sepp

[Palmen, KEV (Karl)]

Dear Sepp and Calendar People

---

From: East Carolina University Calendar discussion List [mailto:CALNDR-L@...] On Behalf Of Sepp Rothwangl
Sent: 06 March 2008 12:06
To: CALNDR-L@...
Subject: Early Easter

Is this true?

Here's the interesting info. This year is the earliest Easter any of

us will ever see the rest of our lives! And only the most elderly of

our population have ever seen it this early (95 years old or above!).

And none of us have ever, or will ever, see it a day earlier! Here

are the facts:

1) The next time Easter will be this early (March 23) will be the

year 2228 (220 years from now). The last time it was this early was

1913 (so if you're 95 or older, you are the only ones that were

around for that!).   It'll be on March 23 in 2160 (2*76=152 years from now) .  

 

Karl

 

09(08(29

2) The next time it will be a day earlier, March 22, will be in the

year 2285 (277 years from now). The last time it was on March 22 was

1818. So, no one alive today has or will ever see it any earlier than

this year!

Servus

sepp

[Gent van R.H.]

Hi,

A list of Gregorian Easter Sundays from 1582 to 3000, such as in

http://www.phys.uu.nl/~vgent/easter/easter_text2b.htm

suggests that Easter on 24 March is about as rare as Easter on 22 March
(although in the long run it is three times as frequent). After this year no
one now alive will see Easter Sunday occurring on either 22, 23 or 24 March.

Other Easter Sunday dates more than half a century away (when I do not
expect to alive anymore) are 30 March, 3 April, 7 April, 11 April, 15 April,
19 April and 23 April.

Looking at the latest possible Easter Sunday dates 24 April also appears to
be more frequent as 23 April or 25 April, though in the long run 23 April
will be more frequent as 24 April, which in turn will be more frequent as 25
April.

rvg

[Mark J. Reed-2]

The earliest possible date for Easter is March 22nd (since it's
defined to be at least one day after the ecclesiastical equinox, which
is defined to be the 21st).  The last time it fell on that date was in
1818, and it won't happen again until 2285.

A table of the most recent occurrence and the next repeat of Easter
dates in March:

22: 1818, 2285
23: 1913, 2160
24: 1940, 2391
25: 1951, 2035
26: 1989, 2062
27: 2005, 2016
28: 1948, 2027
29: 1970, 2043.
30: 1997, 2059
31: 2002, 2013

[Mark J. Reed-2]

On Thu, Mar 6, 2008 at 9:39 AM, Mark J. Reed <markjreed@...> wrote:
>  A table of the most recent occurrence and the next repeat of Easter
>  dates in March:
>
>  23: 1913, 2160

(That's not counting this year, of course)

--
Mark J. Reed <markjreed@...>

[Palmen, KEV (Karl)]

Dear Mark and Calendar People

It will be the first time since 1959, that the British will celebrate
the whole of Easter before turning the clocks forward. See
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Standard_Time#United_Kingdom

Karl

09(08(29

-----Original Message-----
From: East Carolina University Calendar discussion List
[mailto:CALNDR-L@...] On Behalf Of Mark J. Reed
Sent: 06 March 2008 14:40
To: CALNDR-L@...
Subject: Re: Early Easter

The earliest possible date for Easter is March 22nd (since it's defined
to be at least one day after the ecclesiastical equinox, which is
defined to be the 21st).  The last time it fell on that date was in
1818, and it won't happen again until 2285.

A table of the most recent occurrence and the next repeat of Easter
dates in March:

22: 1818, 2285
23: 1913, 2160
24: 1940, 2391
25: 1951, 2035
26: 1989, 2062
27: 2005, 2016
28: 1948, 2027
29: 1970, 2043.
30: 1997, 2059
31: 2002, 2013

[Charles Moyer]

What is also interesting is that the Passover dinner which Jesus has with
his disciples doesn't occur until April 20 which is 30 days after he is
crucified. This and Hilary's victory in Ohio must prove that state's motto
which is "With God all things are possible".
    But seriously why isn't Passover on March 22 this year?

> From: Sepp Rothwangl <calendersign@...>
> Reply-To: East Carolina University Calendar discussion List
> <CALNDR-L@...>
> Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2008 13:05:55 +0100
> To: CALNDR-L@...
> Subject: Early Easter
>
> Is this true?
>
>> Here's the interesting info. This year is the earliest Easter any of
>> us will ever see the rest of our lives! And only the most elderly of
>> our population have ever seen it this early (95 years old or above!).
>> And none of us have ever, or will ever, see it a day earlier! Here
>> are the facts:
>>
>> 1) The next time Easter will be this early (March 23) will be the
>> year 2228 (220 years from now). The last time it was this early was
>> 1913 (so if you're 95 or older, you are the only ones that were
>> around for that!).
>>
>> 2) The next time it will be a day earlier, March 22, will be in the
>> year 2285 (277 years from now). The last time it was on March 22 was
>> 1818. So, no one alive today has or will ever see it any earlier than
>> this year!
>>
>
>
> Servus
> sepp
>

[Mark J. Reed-2]

We don't know when the Last Supper would have been without fixing the
year of the Crucifixion, so the date is an open question.

And Passover is determined by a fixed date in the Hebrew calendar,
Nisan 15.  Because that calendar is lunisolar, that date tends to fall
around the Paschal full moon, but it is an approximation based on
calculations, not observation. Those calculations are different from
the Easter calculations, so sometimes yield different results.  The
Gregorian correction is said to have been adjusted  one day to
minimize Easter/Passover conjunctions.


On 3/7/08, Charles Moyer <moyercdmm@...> wrote:

> What is also interesting is that the Passover dinner which Jesus has with
> his disciples doesn't occur until April 20 which is 30 days after he is
> crucified. This and Hilary's victory in Ohio must prove that state's motto
> which is "With God all things are possible".
>     But seriously why isn't Passover on March 22 this year?
>
> > From: Sepp Rothwangl <calendersign@...>
> > Reply-To: East Carolina University Calendar discussion List
> > <CALNDR-L@...>
> > Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2008 13:05:55 +0100
> > To: CALNDR-L@...
> > Subject: Early Easter
> >
> > Is this true?
> >
> >> Here's the interesting info. This year is the earliest Easter any of
> >> us will ever see the rest of our lives! And only the most elderly of
> >> our population have ever seen it this early (95 years old or above!).
> >> And none of us have ever, or will ever, see it a day earlier! Here
> >> are the facts:
> >>
> >> 1) The next time Easter will be this early (March 23) will be the
> >> year 2228 (220 years from now). The last time it was this early was
> >> 1913 (so if you're 95 or older, you are the only ones that were
> >> around for that!).
> >>
> >> 2) The next time it will be a day earlier, March 22, will be in the
> >> year 2285 (277 years from now). The last time it was on March 22 was
> >> 1818. So, no one alive today has or will ever see it any earlier than
> >> this year!
> >>
> >
> >
> > Servus
> > sepp
> >
>

--
Mark J. Reed <markjreed@...>

[Palmen, KEV (Karl)]

Dear Charles and Mark

-----Original Message-----
From: East Carolina University Calendar discussion List
[mailto:CALNDR-L@...] On Behalf Of Mark J. Reed
Sent: 07 March 2008 12:22
To: CALNDR-L@...
Subject: Re: Early Easter

We don't know when the Last Supper would have been without fixing the
year of the Crucifixion, so the date is an open question.

And Passover is determined by a fixed date in the Hebrew calendar, Nisan
15.  Because that calendar is lunisolar, that date tends to fall around
the Paschal full moon, but it is an approximation based on calculations,
not observation. Those calculations are different from the Easter
calculations, so sometimes yield different results.  The Gregorian
correction is said to have been adjusted  one day to minimize
Easter/Passover conjunctions.

KARL SAYS: In addition, the Hebrew Calendar, unlike the Gregorian
Lunisolar Calendar used to reckon Easter, does not correct the 19-year
Metonic cycle.

Suppose at the time of Jesus, the Hebrew Calendar were to place the
month of Nisan so that its full moon is always the first full moon after
the spring equinox, then today its full moon would be the first full
moon after some day later than the spring equinox and this year after
the coming full moon.

Happy New Moon!

Karl

09(09(01


On 3/7/08, Charles Moyer <moyercdmm@...> wrote:
> What is also interesting is that the Passover dinner which Jesus has
> with his disciples doesn't occur until April 20 which is 30 days after

> he is crucified. This and Hilary's victory in Ohio must prove that
> state's motto which is "With God all things are possible".
>     But seriously why isn't Passover on March 22 this year?
>
> > From: Sepp Rothwangl <calendersign@...>
> > Reply-To: East Carolina University Calendar discussion List
> > <CALNDR-L@...>
> > Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2008 13:05:55 +0100
> > To: CALNDR-L@...
> > Subject: Early Easter
> >
> > Is this true?
> >
> >> Here's the interesting info. This year is the earliest Easter any
> >> of us will ever see the rest of our lives! And only the most
> >> elderly of our population have ever seen it this early (95 years

old or above!).
> >> And none of us have ever, or will ever, see it a day earlier! Here
> >> are the facts:
> >>
> >> 1) The next time Easter will be this early (March 23) will be the
> >> year 2228 (220 years from now). The last time it was this early was
> >> 1913 (so if you're 95 or older, you are the only ones that were
> >> around for that!).
> >>
> >> 2) The next time it will be a day earlier, March 22, will be in the

> >> year 2285 (277 years from now). The last time it was on March 22
> >> was 1818. So, no one alive today has or will ever see it any
> >> earlier than this year!
> >>
> >
> >
> > Servus
> > sepp
> >
>

--
Mark J. Reed <markjreed@...>

[Mark J. Reed-2]

Right.  As I recall, the mean Hebrew year works out to something like
365.26 days, which means any given Hebrew date is (on average,
discounting the short term oscillations inherent in a lunisolar
design) slowly moving forward through the Gregorian and even Julian
calendars.



On 3/7/08, Palmen, KEV (Karl) <K.E.V.Palmen@...> wrote:

> Dear Charles and Mark
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: East Carolina University Calendar discussion List
> [mailto:CALNDR-L@...] On Behalf Of Mark J. Reed
> Sent: 07 March 2008 12:22
> To: CALNDR-L@...
> Subject: Re: Early Easter
>
> We don't know when the Last Supper would have been without fixing the
> year of the Crucifixion, so the date is an open question.
>
> And Passover is determined by a fixed date in the Hebrew calendar, Nisan
> 15.  Because that calendar is lunisolar, that date tends to fall around
> the Paschal full moon, but it is an approximation based on calculations,
> not observation. Those calculations are different from the Easter
> calculations, so sometimes yield different results.  The Gregorian
> correction is said to have been adjusted  one day to minimize
> Easter/Passover conjunctions.
>
> KARL SAYS: In addition, the Hebrew Calendar, unlike the Gregorian
> Lunisolar Calendar used to reckon Easter, does not correct the 19-year
> Metonic cycle.
>
> Suppose at the time of Jesus, the Hebrew Calendar were to place the
> month of Nisan so that its full moon is always the first full moon after
> the spring equinox, then today its full moon would be the first full
> moon after some day later than the spring equinox and this year after
> the coming full moon.
>
> Happy New Moon!
>
> Karl
>
> 09(09(01
>
>
> On 3/7/08, Charles Moyer <moyercdmm@...> wrote:
> > What is also interesting is that the Passover dinner which Jesus has
> > with his disciples doesn't occur until April 20 which is 30 days after
>
> > he is crucified. This and Hilary's victory in Ohio must prove that
> > state's motto which is "With God all things are possible".
> >     But seriously why isn't Passover on March 22 this year?
> >
> > > From: Sepp Rothwangl <calendersign@...>
> > > Reply-To: East Carolina University Calendar discussion List
> > > <CALNDR-L@...>
> > > Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2008 13:05:55 +0100
> > > To: CALNDR-L@...
> > > Subject: Early Easter
> > >
> > > Is this true?
> > >
> > >> Here's the interesting info. This year is the earliest Easter any
> > >> of us will ever see the rest of our lives! And only the most
> > >> elderly of our population have ever seen it this early (95 years
> old or above!).
> > >> And none of us have ever, or will ever, see it a day earlier! Here
> > >> are the facts:
> > >>
> > >> 1) The next time Easter will be this early (March 23) will be the
> > >> year 2228 (220 years from now). The last time it was this early was
> > >> 1913 (so if you're 95 or older, you are the only ones that were
> > >> around for that!).
> > >>
> > >> 2) The next time it will be a day earlier, March 22, will be in the
>
> > >> year 2285 (277 years from now). The last time it was on March 22
> > >> was 1818. So, no one alive today has or will ever see it any
> > >> earlier than this year!
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > > Servus
> > > sepp
> > >
> >
>
>
> --
> Mark J. Reed <markjreed@...>
>

--
Mark J. Reed <markjreed@...>

[Palmen, KEV (Karl)]

Dear Mark and Calendar People

-----Original Message-----
From: East Carolina University Calendar discussion List
[mailto:CALNDR-L@...] On Behalf Of Mark J. Reed
Sent: 07 March 2008 13:38
To: CALNDR-L@...
Subject: Re: Early Easter

Right.  As I recall, the mean Hebrew year works out to something like
365.26 days, which means any given Hebrew date is (on average,
discounting the short term oscillations inherent in a lunisolar
design) slowly moving forward through the Gregorian and even Julian
calendars.

KARL SAYS: Actually it is about 365.247 days, so drifts later with
respect to the Gregorian Calendar, but earlier with respect to the
Julian calendar.

The website
http://www.moonwise.co.uk/neweaster.php has a list of Easters reckoned
by 4 different rules including the Sunday after Passover.
When the Western and Orthodox Easters (which use Gregorian and Julian
calendars respectively) disagree on the month of Easter, the Sunday
after Passover may occur in either of the two different months. See 2002
and 2008 in the list for example. The orthodox month is selected more
often.

Karl

09(09(01



On 3/7/08, Palmen, KEV (Karl) <K.E.V.Palmen@...> wrote:

> Dear Charles and Mark
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: East Carolina University Calendar discussion List
> [mailto:CALNDR-L@...] On Behalf Of Mark J. Reed
> Sent: 07 March 2008 12:22
> To: CALNDR-L@...
> Subject: Re: Early Easter
>
> We don't know when the Last Supper would have been without fixing the
> year of the Crucifixion, so the date is an open question.
>
> And Passover is determined by a fixed date in the Hebrew calendar,
> Nisan 15.  Because that calendar is lunisolar, that date tends to fall

> around the Paschal full moon, but it is an approximation based on
> calculations, not observation. Those calculations are different from
> the Easter calculations, so sometimes yield different results.  The
> Gregorian correction is said to have been adjusted  one day to
> minimize Easter/Passover conjunctions.
>
> KARL SAYS: In addition, the Hebrew Calendar, unlike the Gregorian
> Lunisolar Calendar used to reckon Easter, does not correct the 19-year

> Metonic cycle.
>
> Suppose at the time of Jesus, the Hebrew Calendar were to place the
> month of Nisan so that its full moon is always the first full moon
> after the spring equinox, then today its full moon would be the first
> full moon after some day later than the spring equinox and this year
> after the coming full moon.
>
> Happy New Moon!
>
> Karl
>
> 09(09(01
>
>
> On 3/7/08, Charles Moyer <moyercdmm@...> wrote:
> > What is also interesting is that the Passover dinner which Jesus has

> > with his disciples doesn't occur until April 20 which is 30 days
> > after
>
> > he is crucified. This and Hilary's victory in Ohio must prove that
> > state's motto which is "With God all things are possible".
> >     But seriously why isn't Passover on March 22 this year?
> >
> > > From: Sepp Rothwangl <calendersign@...>
> > > Reply-To: East Carolina University Calendar discussion List
> > > <CALNDR-L@...>
> > > Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2008 13:05:55 +0100
> > > To: CALNDR-L@...
> > > Subject: Early Easter
> > >
> > > Is this true?
> > >
> > >> Here's the interesting info. This year is the earliest Easter any

> > >> of us will ever see the rest of our lives! And only the most
> > >> elderly of our population have ever seen it this early (95 years
> old or above!).
> > >> And none of us have ever, or will ever, see it a day earlier!
> > >> Here are the facts:
> > >>
> > >> 1) The next time Easter will be this early (March 23) will be the

> > >> year 2228 (220 years from now). The last time it was this early
> > >> was
> > >> 1913 (so if you're 95 or older, you are the only ones that were
> > >> around for that!).
> > >>
> > >> 2) The next time it will be a day earlier, March 22, will be in
> > >> the
>
> > >> year 2285 (277 years from now). The last time it was on March 22
> > >> was 1818. So, no one alive today has or will ever see it any
> > >> earlier than this year!
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > > Servus
> > > sepp
> > >
> >
>
>
> --
> Mark J. Reed <markjreed@...>
>

--
Mark J. Reed <markjreed@...>

[Mark J. Reed-2]

Huh.  What am I thinking of that has the 365.26-day mean year?

This is why I need another copy of Calendrical Calculations for my car. :)


On 3/7/08, Palmen, KEV (Karl) <K.E.V.Palmen@...> wrote:

> Dear Mark and Calendar People
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: East Carolina University Calendar discussion List
> [mailto:CALNDR-L@...] On Behalf Of Mark J. Reed
> Sent: 07 March 2008 13:38
> To: CALNDR-L@...
> Subject: Re: Early Easter
>
> Right.  As I recall, the mean Hebrew year works out to something like
> 365.26 days, which means any given Hebrew date is (on average,
> discounting the short term oscillations inherent in a lunisolar
> design) slowly moving forward through the Gregorian and even Julian
> calendars.
>
> KARL SAYS: Actually it is about 365.247 days, so drifts later with
> respect to the Gregorian Calendar, but earlier with respect to the
> Julian calendar.
>
> The website
> http://www.moonwise.co.uk/neweaster.php has a list of Easters reckoned
> by 4 different rules including the Sunday after Passover.
> When the Western and Orthodox Easters (which use Gregorian and Julian
> calendars respectively) disagree on the month of Easter, the Sunday
> after Passover may occur in either of the two different months. See 2002
> and 2008 in the list for example. The orthodox month is selected more
> often.
>
> Karl
>
> 09(09(01
>
>
>
> On 3/7/08, Palmen, KEV (Karl) <K.E.V.Palmen@...> wrote:
> > Dear Charles and Mark
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: East Carolina University Calendar discussion List
> > [mailto:CALNDR-L@...] On Behalf Of Mark J. Reed
> > Sent: 07 March 2008 12:22
> > To: CALNDR-L@...
> > Subject: Re: Early Easter
> >
> > We don't know when the Last Supper would have been without fixing the
> > year of the Crucifixion, so the date is an open question.
> >
> > And Passover is determined by a fixed date in the Hebrew calendar,
> > Nisan 15.  Because that calendar is lunisolar, that date tends to fall
>
> > around the Paschal full moon, but it is an approximation based on
> > calculations, not observation. Those calculations are different from
> > the Easter calculations, so sometimes yield different results.  The
> > Gregorian correction is said to have been adjusted  one day to
> > minimize Easter/Passover conjunctions.
> >
> > KARL SAYS: In addition, the Hebrew Calendar, unlike the Gregorian
> > Lunisolar Calendar used to reckon Easter, does not correct the 19-year
>
> > Metonic cycle.
> >
> > Suppose at the time of Jesus, the Hebrew Calendar were to place the
> > month of Nisan so that its full moon is always the first full moon
> > after the spring equinox, then today its full moon would be the first
> > full moon after some day later than the spring equinox and this year
> > after the coming full moon.
> >
> > Happy New Moon!
> >
> > Karl
> >
> > 09(09(01
> >
> >
> > On 3/7/08, Charles Moyer <moyercdmm@...> wrote:
> > > What is also interesting is that the Passover dinner which Jesus has
>
> > > with his disciples doesn't occur until April 20 which is 30 days
> > > after
> >
> > > he is crucified. This and Hilary's victory in Ohio must prove that
> > > state's motto which is "With God all things are possible".
> > >     But seriously why isn't Passover on March 22 this year?
> > >
> > > > From: Sepp Rothwangl <calendersign@...>
> > > > Reply-To: East Carolina University Calendar discussion List
> > > > <CALNDR-L@...>
> > > > Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2008 13:05:55 +0100
> > > > To: CALNDR-L@...
> > > > Subject: Early Easter
> > > >
> > > > Is this true?
> > > >
> > > >> Here's the interesting info. This year is the earliest Easter any
>
> > > >> of us will ever see the rest of our lives! And only the most
> > > >> elderly of our population have ever seen it this early (95 years
> > old or above!).
> > > >> And none of us have ever, or will ever, see it a day earlier!
> > > >> Here are the facts:
> > > >>
> > > >> 1) The next time Easter will be this early (March 23) will be the
>
> > > >> year 2228 (220 years from now). The last time it was this early
> > > >> was
> > > >> 1913 (so if you're 95 or older, you are the only ones that were
> > > >> around for that!).
> > > >>
> > > >> 2) The next time it will be a day earlier, March 22, will be in
> > > >> the
> >
> > > >> year 2285 (277 years from now). The last time it was on March 22
> > > >> was 1818. So, no one alive today has or will ever see it any
> > > >> earlier than this year!
> > > >>
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Servus
> > > > sepp
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Mark J. Reed <markjreed@...>
> >
>
>
> --
> Mark J. Reed <markjreed@...>
>

--
Mark J. Reed <markjreed@...>

[Palmen, KEV (Karl)]

Dear Mark and Calendar People

I think it is the sidereal year.    Karl  09(09(01

-----Original Message-----
From: East Carolina University Calendar discussion List
[mailto:CALNDR-L@...] On Behalf Of Mark J. Reed
Sent: 07 March 2008 14:14
To: CALNDR-L@...
Subject: Re: Early Easter

Huh.  What am I thinking of that has the 365.26-day mean year?

This is why I need another copy of Calendrical Calculations for my car.
:)


On 3/7/08, Palmen, KEV (Karl) <K.E.V.Palmen@...> wrote:

> Dear Mark and Calendar People
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: East Carolina University Calendar discussion List
> [mailto:CALNDR-L@...] On Behalf Of Mark J. Reed
> Sent: 07 March 2008 13:38
> To: CALNDR-L@...
> Subject: Re: Early Easter
>
> Right.  As I recall, the mean Hebrew year works out to something like
> 365.26 days, which means any given Hebrew date is (on average,
> discounting the short term oscillations inherent in a lunisolar
> design) slowly moving forward through the Gregorian and even Julian
> calendars.
>
> KARL SAYS: Actually it is about 365.247 days, so drifts later with
> respect to the Gregorian Calendar, but earlier with respect to the
> Julian calendar.
>
> The website
> http://www.moonwise.co.uk/neweaster.php has a list of Easters reckoned

> by 4 different rules including the Sunday after Passover.
> When the Western and Orthodox Easters (which use Gregorian and Julian
> calendars respectively) disagree on the month of Easter, the Sunday
> after Passover may occur in either of the two different months. See
> 2002 and 2008 in the list for example. The orthodox month is selected
> more often.
>
> Karl
>
> 09(09(01
>
>
>
> On 3/7/08, Palmen, KEV (Karl) <K.E.V.Palmen@...> wrote:
> > Dear Charles and Mark
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: East Carolina University Calendar discussion List
> > [mailto:CALNDR-L@...] On Behalf Of Mark J. Reed
> > Sent: 07 March 2008 12:22
> > To: CALNDR-L@...
> > Subject: Re: Early Easter
> >
> > We don't know when the Last Supper would have been without fixing
> > the year of the Crucifixion, so the date is an open question.
> >
> > And Passover is determined by a fixed date in the Hebrew calendar,
> > Nisan 15.  Because that calendar is lunisolar, that date tends to
> > fall
>
> > around the Paschal full moon, but it is an approximation based on
> > calculations, not observation. Those calculations are different from

> > the Easter calculations, so sometimes yield different results.  The
> > Gregorian correction is said to have been adjusted  one day to
> > minimize Easter/Passover conjunctions.
> >
> > KARL SAYS: In addition, the Hebrew Calendar, unlike the Gregorian
> > Lunisolar Calendar used to reckon Easter, does not correct the
> > 19-year
>
> > Metonic cycle.
> >
> > Suppose at the time of Jesus, the Hebrew Calendar were to place the
> > month of Nisan so that its full moon is always the first full moon
> > after the spring equinox, then today its full moon would be the
> > first full moon after some day later than the spring equinox and
> > this year after the coming full moon.
> >
> > Happy New Moon!
> >
> > Karl
> >
> > 09(09(01
> >
> >
> > On 3/7/08, Charles Moyer <moyercdmm@...> wrote:
> > > What is also interesting is that the Passover dinner which Jesus
> > > has
>
> > > with his disciples doesn't occur until April 20 which is 30 days
> > > after
> >
> > > he is crucified. This and Hilary's victory in Ohio must prove that

> > > state's motto which is "With God all things are possible".
> > >     But seriously why isn't Passover on March 22 this year?
> > >
> > > > From: Sepp Rothwangl <calendersign@...>
> > > > Reply-To: East Carolina University Calendar discussion List
> > > > <CALNDR-L@...>
> > > > Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2008 13:05:55 +0100
> > > > To: CALNDR-L@...
> > > > Subject: Early Easter
> > > >
> > > > Is this true?
> > > >
> > > >> Here's the interesting info. This year is the earliest Easter
> > > >> any
>
> > > >> of us will ever see the rest of our lives! And only the most
> > > >> elderly of our population have ever seen it this early (95
> > > >> years
> > old or above!).
> > > >> And none of us have ever, or will ever, see it a day earlier!
> > > >> Here are the facts:
> > > >>
> > > >> 1) The next time Easter will be this early (March 23) will be
> > > >> the
>
> > > >> year 2228 (220 years from now). The last time it was this early

> > > >> was
> > > >> 1913 (so if you're 95 or older, you are the only ones that were

> > > >> around for that!).
> > > >>
> > > >> 2) The next time it will be a day earlier, March 22, will be in

> > > >> the
> >
> > > >> year 2285 (277 years from now). The last time it was on March
> > > >> 22 was 1818. So, no one alive today has or will ever see it any

> > > >> earlier than this year!
> > > >>
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Servus
> > > > sepp
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Mark J. Reed <markjreed@...>
> >
>
>
> --
> Mark J. Reed <markjreed@...>
>

--
Mark J. Reed <markjreed@...>

[Mark J. Reed-2]

Yes, but that's not what I'm thinking of.  ISTR a calendar with a mean
year on the order of 365.26 days that was not (intentionally) aligned
with the sidereal year.  But I could easily be
misremembering/imagining things.


On 3/7/08, Palmen, KEV (Karl) <K.E.V.Palmen@...> wrote:

> Dear Mark and Calendar People
>
> I think it is the sidereal year.    Karl  09(09(01
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: East Carolina University Calendar discussion List
> [mailto:CALNDR-L@...] On Behalf Of Mark J. Reed
> Sent: 07 March 2008 14:14
> To: CALNDR-L@...
> Subject: Re: Early Easter
>
> Huh.  What am I thinking of that has the 365.26-day mean year?
>
> This is why I need another copy of Calendrical Calculations for my car.
> :)
>
>
> On 3/7/08, Palmen, KEV (Karl) <K.E.V.Palmen@...> wrote:
> > Dear Mark and Calendar People
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: East Carolina University Calendar discussion List
> > [mailto:CALNDR-L@...] On Behalf Of Mark J. Reed
> > Sent: 07 March 2008 13:38
> > To: CALNDR-L@...
> > Subject: Re: Early Easter
> >
> > Right.  As I recall, the mean Hebrew year works out to something like
> > 365.26 days, which means any given Hebrew date is (on average,
> > discounting the short term oscillations inherent in a lunisolar
> > design) slowly moving forward through the Gregorian and even Julian
> > calendars.
> >
> > KARL SAYS: Actually it is about 365.247 days, so drifts later with
> > respect to the Gregorian Calendar, but earlier with respect to the
> > Julian calendar.
> >
> > The website
> > http://www.moonwise.co.uk/neweaster.php has a list of Easters reckoned
>
> > by 4 different rules including the Sunday after Passover.
> > When the Western and Orthodox Easters (which use Gregorian and Julian
> > calendars respectively) disagree on the month of Easter, the Sunday
> > after Passover may occur in either of the two different months. See
> > 2002 and 2008 in the list for example. The orthodox month is selected
> > more often.
> >
> > Karl
> >
> > 09(09(01
> >
> >
> >
> > On 3/7/08, Palmen, KEV (Karl) <K.E.V.Palmen@...> wrote:
> > > Dear Charles and Mark
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: East Carolina University Calendar discussion List
> > > [mailto:CALNDR-L@...] On Behalf Of Mark J. Reed
> > > Sent: 07 March 2008 12:22
> > > To: CALNDR-L@...
> > > Subject: Re: Early Easter
> > >
> > > We don't know when the Last Supper would have been without fixing
> > > the year of the Crucifixion, so the date is an open question.
> > >
> > > And Passover is determined by a fixed date in the Hebrew calendar,
> > > Nisan 15.  Because that calendar is lunisolar, that date tends to
> > > fall
> >
> > > around the Paschal full moon, but it is an approximation based on
> > > calculations, not observation. Those calculations are different from
>
> > > the Easter calculations, so sometimes yield different results.  The
> > > Gregorian correction is said to have been adjusted  one day to
> > > minimize Easter/Passover conjunctions.
> > >
> > > KARL SAYS: In addition, the Hebrew Calendar, unlike the Gregorian
> > > Lunisolar Calendar used to reckon Easter, does not correct the
> > > 19-year
> >
> > > Metonic cycle.
> > >
> > > Suppose at the time of Jesus, the Hebrew Calendar were to place the
> > > month of Nisan so that its full moon is always the first full moon
> > > after the spring equinox, then today its full moon would be the
> > > first full moon after some day later than the spring equinox and
> > > this year after the coming full moon.
> > >
> > > Happy New Moon!
> > >
> > > Karl
> > >
> > > 09(09(01
> > >
> > >
> > > On 3/7/08, Charles Moyer <moyercdmm@...> wrote:
> > > > What is also interesting is that the Passover dinner which Jesus
> > > > has
> >
> > > > with his disciples doesn't occur until April 20 which is 30 days
> > > > after
> > >
> > > > he is crucified. This and Hilary's victory in Ohio must prove that
>
> > > > state's motto which is "With God all things are possible".
> > > >     But seriously why isn't Passover on March 22 this year?
> > > >
> > > > > From: Sepp Rothwangl <calendersign@...>
> > > > > Reply-To: East Carolina University Calendar discussion List
> > > > > <CALNDR-L@...>
> > > > > Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2008 13:05:55 +0100
> > > > > To: CALNDR-L@...
> > > > > Subject: Early Easter
> > > > >
> > > > > Is this true?
> > > > >
> > > > >> Here's the interesting info. This year is the earliest Easter
> > > > >> any
> >
> > > > >> of us will ever see the rest of our lives! And only the most
> > > > >> elderly of our population have ever seen it this early (95
> > > > >> years
> > > old or above!).
> > > > >> And none of us have ever, or will ever, see it a day earlier!
> > > > >> Here are the facts:
> > > > >>
> > > > >> 1) The next time Easter will be this early (March 23) will be
> > > > >> the
> >
> > > > >> year 2228 (220 years from now). The last time it was this early
>
> > > > >> was
> > > > >> 1913 (so if you're 95 or older, you are the only ones that were
>
> > > > >> around for that!).
> > > > >>
> > > > >> 2) The next time it will be a day earlier, March 22, will be in
>
> > > > >> the
> > >
> > > > >> year 2285 (277 years from now). The last time it was on March
> > > > >> 22 was 1818. So, no one alive today has or will ever see it any
>
> > > > >> earlier than this year!
> > > > >>
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Servus
> > > > > sepp
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Mark J. Reed <markjreed@...>
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Mark J. Reed <markjreed@...>
> >
>
>
> --
> Mark J. Reed <markjreed@...>
>

--
Mark J. Reed <markjreed@...>

[Palmen, KEV (Karl)]

Dear Mark and Calendar People

Perhaps, it's 6940/19 = 365.263158 from Meton's constant length 19-year
cycle, rather than the Hebrew calendar's 235/19*29.530594 = 365.24682.

Karl

09(09(01

-----Original Message-----
From: East Carolina University Calendar discussion List
[mailto:CALNDR-L@...] On Behalf Of Mark J. Reed
Sent: 07 March 2008 14:32
To: CALNDR-L@...
Subject: Re: Early Easter

Yes, but that's not what I'm thinking of.  ISTR a calendar with a mean
year on the order of 365.26 days that was not (intentionally) aligned
with the sidereal year.  But I could easily be misremembering/imagining
things.


On 3/7/08, Palmen, KEV (Karl) <K.E.V.Palmen@...> wrote:

> Dear Mark and Calendar People
>
> I think it is the sidereal year.    Karl  09(09(01
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: East Carolina University Calendar discussion List
> [mailto:CALNDR-L@...] On Behalf Of Mark J. Reed
> Sent: 07 March 2008 14:14
> To: CALNDR-L@...
> Subject: Re: Early Easter
>
> Huh.  What am I thinking of that has the 365.26-day mean year?
>
> This is why I need another copy of Calendrical Calculations for my

car.

> :)
>
>
> On 3/7/08, Palmen, KEV (Karl) <K.E.V.Palmen@...> wrote:
> > Dear Mark and Calendar People
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: East Carolina University Calendar discussion List
> > [mailto:CALNDR-L@...] On Behalf Of Mark J. Reed
> > Sent: 07 March 2008 13:38
> > To: CALNDR-L@...
> > Subject: Re: Early Easter
> >
> > Right.  As I recall, the mean Hebrew year works out to something
> > like
> > 365.26 days, which means any given Hebrew date is (on average,
> > discounting the short term oscillations inherent in a lunisolar
> > design) slowly moving forward through the Gregorian and even Julian
> > calendars.
> >
> > KARL SAYS: Actually it is about 365.247 days, so drifts later with
> > respect to the Gregorian Calendar, but earlier with respect to the
> > Julian calendar.
> >
> > The website
> > http://www.moonwise.co.uk/neweaster.php has a list of Easters
> > reckoned
>
> > by 4 different rules including the Sunday after Passover.
> > When the Western and Orthodox Easters (which use Gregorian and
> > Julian calendars respectively) disagree on the month of Easter, the
> > Sunday after Passover may occur in either of the two different
> > months. See
> > 2002 and 2008 in the list for example. The orthodox month is
> > selected more often.
> >
> > Karl
> >
> > 09(09(01
> >
> >
> >
> > On 3/7/08, Palmen, KEV (Karl) <K.E.V.Palmen@...> wrote:
> > > Dear Charles and Mark
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: East Carolina University Calendar discussion List
> > > [mailto:CALNDR-L@...] On Behalf Of Mark J. Reed
> > > Sent: 07 March 2008 12:22
> > > To: CALNDR-L@...
> > > Subject: Re: Early Easter
> > >
> > > We don't know when the Last Supper would have been without fixing
> > > the year of the Crucifixion, so the date is an open question.
> > >
> > > And Passover is determined by a fixed date in the Hebrew calendar,

> > > Nisan 15.  Because that calendar is lunisolar, that date tends to
> > > fall
> >
> > > around the Paschal full moon, but it is an approximation based on
> > > calculations, not observation. Those calculations are different
> > > from
>
> > > the Easter calculations, so sometimes yield different results.  
> > > The Gregorian correction is said to have been adjusted  one day to

> > > minimize Easter/Passover conjunctions.
> > >
> > > KARL SAYS: In addition, the Hebrew Calendar, unlike the Gregorian
> > > Lunisolar Calendar used to reckon Easter, does not correct the
> > > 19-year
> >
> > > Metonic cycle.
> > >
> > > Suppose at the time of Jesus, the Hebrew Calendar were to place
> > > the month of Nisan so that its full moon is always the first full
> > > moon after the spring equinox, then today its full moon would be
> > > the first full moon after some day later than the spring equinox
> > > and this year after the coming full moon.
> > >
> > > Happy New Moon!
> > >
> > > Karl
> > >
> > > 09(09(01
> > >
> > >
> > > On 3/7/08, Charles Moyer <moyercdmm@...> wrote:
> > > > What is also interesting is that the Passover dinner which Jesus

> > > > has
> >
> > > > with his disciples doesn't occur until April 20 which is 30 days

> > > > after
> > >
> > > > he is crucified. This and Hilary's victory in Ohio must prove
> > > > that
>
> > > > state's motto which is "With God all things are possible".
> > > >     But seriously why isn't Passover on March 22 this year?
> > > >
> > > > > From: Sepp Rothwangl <calendersign@...>
> > > > > Reply-To: East Carolina University Calendar discussion List
> > > > > <CALNDR-L@...>
> > > > > Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2008 13:05:55 +0100
> > > > > To: CALNDR-L@...
> > > > > Subject: Early Easter
> > > > >
> > > > > Is this true?
> > > > >
> > > > >> Here's the interesting info. This year is the earliest Easter

> > > > >> any
> >
> > > > >> of us will ever see the rest of our lives! And only the most
> > > > >> elderly of our population have ever seen it this early (95
> > > > >> years
> > > old or above!).
> > > > >> And none of us have ever, or will ever, see it a day earlier!
> > > > >> Here are the facts:
> > > > >>
> > > > >> 1) The next time Easter will be this early (March 23) will be

> > > > >> the
> >
> > > > >> year 2228 (220 years from now). The last time it was this
> > > > >> early
>
> > > > >> was
> > > > >> 1913 (so if you're 95 or older, you are the only ones that
> > > > >> were
>
> > > > >> around for that!).
> > > > >>
> > > > >> 2) The next time it will be a day earlier, March 22, will be
> > > > >> in
>
> > > > >> the
> > >
> > > > >> year 2285 (277 years from now). The last time it was on March
> > > > >> 22 was 1818. So, no one alive today has or will ever see it
> > > > >> any
>
> > > > >> earlier than this year!
> > > > >>
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Servus
> > > > > sepp
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Mark J. Reed <markjreed@...>
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Mark J. Reed <markjreed@...>
> >
>
>
> --
> Mark J. Reed <markjreed@...>
>

--
Mark J. Reed <markjreed@...>

[Mark J. Reed-2]

On Fri, Mar 7, 2008 at 9:40 AM, Palmen, KEV (Karl)
<K.E.V.Palmen@...> wrote:
> Dear Mark and Calendar People
>
>  Perhaps, it's 6940/19 = 365.263158 from Meton's constant length
> 19-year cycle.

Could be.  I could also have been misremembering the Hebrew  ".246" as ".26"...

--
Mark J. Reed <markjreed@...>

[Irv Bromberg]

On Mar 7, 2008, at 06:27, Charles Moyer wrote:
> But seriously why isn't Passover on March 22 this year?

The traditional Hebrew calendar makes this Hebrew year 5768 a leap
year, thus delaying Passover by a month to April 20th, 2008.

The 130/353 leap rule of my Rectified Hebrew calendar says "no, this is
not a leap year, next year ought to be the leap year", thus placing
this year's "Rectified" Passover on March 22nd, 2008 as Charles asked.

So, one could say that this is "prematurely" a leap year on the
traditional Hebrew calendar.  Today is the 30th of Adar 1 on the
traditional, but the 29th of Adar 1 on the rectified, so today there is
just one day difference.  Tomorrow, however, it will be the 1st of Adar
2 on the traditional but the 1st of Nisan on the rectified calendar,
thus from tomorrow they will differ by one month!  The two calendars
will continue differ by a month thereafter, with the traditional being
one month behind the rectified, until the rectified inserts its leap
month next spring, after which the two calendars will agree on all
dates for the next 7 years, see the following page which graphically
shows the dates that match and don't match:

<http://individual.utoronto.ca/kalendis/hebrew/Rect_Matching_Months.htm>

Currently the traditional Hebrew calendar falls a month behind the
rectified starting in the spring of years 8, 19, and 11 of each 19-year
traditional leap cycle.  The present Hebrew year is the 11th year of
the traditional cycle.  Thus the traditional Hebrew calendar is "one
month behind" in 3 of every 19 years, or almost 16% of the time.  
Starting in Hebrew year 5817, which will be only 49 years from this
year, the 3rd year of each 19-year cycle will be added to the list,
always being a month behind starting in the spring, after which the
traditional calendar will be "one month behind" in 4 of every 19 years,
or a bit more than 21% of the time (more than 1/5 of years).  Year 14
of 19 will get added to the list shortly after Hebrew year 6000, then
the traditional calendar will be "one month behind" in 5 of every 19
years, or more than 26% of the time (more than 1/4 of years), but that
is beyond the end of the list that the URL above points to.

Also please see the Rectified Hebrew calendar home page at:
<http://www.sym454.org/hebrew/rect.htm>

and for more information about the seasonal drift of the traditional
Hebrew calendar, in particular to learn the reason for the sequence 8,
19, 11, 3, 14, etc., please see:
<http://www.sym454.org/hebrew/drift.htm>


-- Irv Bromberg, Toronto, Canada

[OvV_HN]

Another "silly Easter statistic" I found is the following one.

In the Dutch language there is a saying:
    Als Pasen en Pinksteren op één dag vallen.
Literal translation:
    When Easter and Pentecost will fall on the same day.
Semantically better translation:
    When Hell freezes over.
Meaning: never.

In the Gregorian calendar it will of course never occur that Easter and
Pentecost will fall on the same day, because they are by definition
separated by 49 days.
Still, it is possible to let 'an' easter coincide with a pentecost.
Just take Nisan 15, the first day of the Hebrew Pesach, and compare that
with the Gregorian Pentecost.

In the Gregorian year 2008, Nisan 15 of the Hebrew year 5768 will fall
on Gregorian April 20. Gregorian Pentecost will fall on May 11 2008.
In this day and age the Gregorian and Hebrew calendars are somewhat
locked onto the seasons and due to future corrections they probably will
do so until the end of times.
But suppose the current calendar definitions will stay valid forever,
then we'll see that the Hebrew calendar will drift past the Gregorian
calendar.
For the first time in the Gregorian year 259838, on May 13, we will have
a coincidence between the Gregorian Pentecost and the Hebrew Pesach
(Nisan 15). By then it is the Hebrew year 263595. Many coincidences will
follow until the calendars will have drifted too far apart. Until the
next time they are aligned favorably, starting the Gregorian year
597928, again on Pentecost May 13. By then it is Hebrew 601681, Nisan 15.

You can use these silly statistics to test your Easter and Hebrew date
algorithms. I used the Reingold/Dershowitz algorithms.

[Irv Bromberg]

On Mar 7, 2008, at 08:38, Mark J. Reed wrote:
> As I recall, the mean Hebrew year works out to something like 365.26
> days,

Irv replies:  Not quite.  The exact calculation of the mean year of the
traditional Hebrew calendar is given at:

<http://individual.utoronto.ca/kalendis/hebrew/drift.htm#mean>


> which means any given Hebrew date is (on average, discounting the
> short term oscillations inherent in a lunisolar
> design) slowly moving forward through the Gregorian and even Julian
> calendars.

Irv replies: The accurate drift rate of the traditional Hebrew calendar
relative to the mean northward equinoctial year as well as exact drift
rate relative to the Gregorian and Julian calendars is given at:

<http://individual.utoronto.ca/kalendis/hebrew/drift.htm#quick>


-- Irv Bromberg, Toronto, Canada

<http://www.sym454.org/hebrew/>

[Charles Moyer]

Thank you, Irv. Still this doesn't make it any easier to reconcile the
absurd sequence of Biblical events, but then we know they are 99% mythic
anyway. It sounds to me as if both Christianity and Judaism were both trying
to commandeer a Vernal Equinox celebration by attaching their own
pseudo-historical events to it without realizing there would be a resulting
clash of mumbo-jumbo with reality? In fact the truth is that probably most
celebrations have their origins in seasonal changes and lunar and solar
events, planting and harvesting, etc.

> From: Irv Bromberg <irv.bromberg@...>
> Reply-To: East Carolina University Calendar discussion List
> <CALNDR-L@...>
> Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2008 10:36:30 -0500
> To: CALNDR-L@...
> Subject: Re: Early Easter
>
> On Mar 7, 2008, at 06:27, Charles Moyer wrote:
>> But seriously why isn't Passover on March 22 this year?
>
> The traditional Hebrew calendar makes this Hebrew year 5768 a leap
> year, thus delaying Passover by a month to April 20th, 2008.
>
> The 130/353 leap rule of my Rectified Hebrew calendar says "no, this is
> not a leap year, next year ought to be the leap year", thus placing
> this year's "Rectified" Passover on March 22nd, 2008 as Charles asked.
>
> So, one could say that this is "prematurely" a leap year on the
> traditional Hebrew calendar.  Today is the 30th of Adar 1 on the
> traditional, but the 29th of Adar 1 on the rectified, so today there is
> just one day difference.  Tomorrow, however, it will be the 1st of Adar
> 2 on the traditional but the 1st of Nisan on the rectified calendar,
> thus from tomorrow they will differ by one month!  The two calendars
> will continue differ by a month thereafter, with the traditional being
> one month behind the rectified, until the rectified inserts its leap
> month next spring, after which the two calendars will agree on all
> dates for the next 7 years, see the following page which graphically
> shows the dates that match and don't match:
>
> <http://individual.utoronto.ca/kalendis/hebrew/Rect_Matching_Months.htm>
>
> Currently the traditional Hebrew calendar falls a month behind the
> rectified starting in the spring of years 8, 19, and 11 of each 19-year
> traditional leap cycle.  The present Hebrew year is the 11th year of
> the traditional cycle.  Thus the traditional Hebrew calendar is "one
> month behind" in 3 of every 19 years, or almost 16% of the time.
> Starting in Hebrew year 5817, which will be only 49 years from this
> year, the 3rd year of each 19-year cycle will be added to the list,
> always being a month behind starting in the spring, after which the
> traditional calendar will be "one month behind" in 4 of every 19 years,
> or a bit more than 21% of the time (more than 1/5 of years).  Year 14
> of 19 will get added to the list shortly after Hebrew year 6000, then
> the traditional calendar will be "one month behind" in 5 of every 19
> years, or more than 26% of the time (more than 1/4 of years), but that
> is beyond the end of the list that the URL above points to.
>
> Also please see the Rectified Hebrew calendar home page at:
> <http://www.sym454.org/hebrew/rect.htm>
>
> and for more information about the seasonal drift of the traditional
> Hebrew calendar, in particular to learn the reason for the sequence 8,
> 19, 11, 3, 14, etc., please see:
> <http://www.sym454.org/hebrew/drift.htm>
>
>
> -- Irv Bromberg, Toronto, Canada