Nabble - Electric Vehicle Discussion List

Re: Fair Radio Charger. Remember them?

2009-11-03T23:41:55Z

David,
IIRC my FR Charger has a plate and toggle switch on the front to change from 110 to 220 input, you just take the plate off and reverse it which locks the toggle in the other position. Regards, David Chapman.

--- On Tue, 11/3/09, David Roden <evpost@...> wrote:

From: David Roden <evpost@...>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Fair Radio Charger. Remember them?
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@...>
Date: Tuesday, November 3, 2009, 1:53 PM

On 3 Nov 2009 at 14:40, Bob Rice wrote:

> ISN'T there a way to double the output, but at HALF the
> amps??I THINK there is a trick, with making 36 volt chargers 72 volts?

This works with a center-tapped (push-pull) transformer and 2-diode setup,
as is typical with golf car chargers. You ignore the center tap and put a 4-
diode full bridge across the full secondary.

However, the Fair Radio chargers are already set up that way - they already
use a full bridge.

You might be able to get away with applying 240v to the 120v input tap on
the primary side of the transformer. But be careful that the output voltage
doesn't exceed the diodes' PIV voltage rating.

> Hope they are still in biz? They were in Lima Ohio as I remember?

Still around, and still offering lots of different kinds of electronic boat
anchors :

http://www.fairradio.com/

David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator

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Re: Mice

2009-11-03T22:04:45Z

I highly recommend the windup traps. They can catch several mice at once
and it's much easier to get the mice out of.

Once I catch some mice, I just pop the whole thing in the freezer. That
turns them into "mousicles". Since my wife feeds birds of prey, that's
perfect; bite-size morsels. Someone without a specific "bird food freezer"
might be a little more squeamish about putting the mouse trap in the
freezer, though.

Mike

-----Original Message-----
From: ev-bounces@... [mailto:ev-bounces@...] On Behalf
Of David Chapman
Sent: Tuesday, November 03, 2009 3:41 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Mice

Walter, possibly you are looking at this wrong? Instead of a problem maybe
you have come up with the holy grail of inventors. IE: A better mousetrap.
Get a windup collector from a feedstore and bait it with peanut butter, you
will just have to empty it out daily so they don't die and stink up your
motor room. David Chapman.

--- On Tue, 11/3/09, Roger Heuckeroth <rheuckeroth@...> wrote:

From: Roger Heuckeroth <rheuckeroth@...>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Mice
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@...>
Date: Tuesday, November 3, 2009, 3:29 PM

Get a cat :^))

On Nov 3, 2009, at 5:16 PM, Walter Guinon wrote:

http://old.nabble.com/Mice-tp26163609p26163609.html
> Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive
> at Nabble.com.
>
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Re: Elithion communication with PFC-20 and Zilla

2009-11-03T22:01:54Z

On 3 Nov 2009 at 23:24, web@... wrote:

> Today you pointed out that you did indeed ask questions about the Elithion
> system, some time back, but you did so here, in the EVDL. If you feel that we
> should be on top of that, and answer all questions that may appear on line
> somewhere, then you are right, and I apologize.

Please forgive me for stepping in here. I'd like to make sure everybody
understands the EVDL position here. Our policy on the participation of
commercial enterprises on this list is published as part of the usage
conventions at

http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#conv

Please read these guidelines, especially the ones which apply to EV
businesses. They'll explain what we ask you to do as a representative of
such an operation when taking part in the EVDL.

I think just about everybody here values and appreciates the folks who build
and sell EV components to us as EV hobbyists. I hope it's not too much to
ask that you do your best to adhere to these ideals as a good citizen of the
EV community.

Thanks.

David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator

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Re: Elithion communication with PFC-20 and Zilla

2009-11-03T21:24:00Z

> Willie McKemie wrote:

> Add to that the difficulty of extracting information from or
about Elithion ...

I am really sorry about that, Willie. We are very prompt at responding to
emails; but you never wrote us, so, no, we never had a chance to respond.
Today you pointed out that you did indeed ask questions about the Elithion
system, some time back, but you did so here, in the EVDL. If you feel that
we should be on top of that, and answer all questions that may appear on
line somewhere, then you are right, and I apologize.

Nonetheless, I must clarify that we offer free tech support only to
Elithion clients, and, as you yourself said, you are not an Elithion
client. Elithion clients pay full price, and they deserve our full
attention. For non-clients, we do offer tech support on a consulting
basis. Though you should really be asking your vendor for tech support; if
needed, we'll help your vendor answer your question.

In any case, our website is full of information, and answers to all your
questions were already there, as Travis so kindly pointed out.

> So, I now have my third EVPower BMS in the pipeline...

The EV Power BMS is a very nice product, and I am happy that it fills your
needs. I am sorry that the Elithion Lithiumate was not a good match for
your application. Please let us help you find a new home for it.

Thank you,
D'de
Davide Andrea

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Re: golf ball effect

2009-11-03T20:39:44Z

<<< In particular, the product they were looking at is:
http://www.fastskinz.com/ >>>

With no change in weight or frontal area, an improvement of 18-20% in
mpg would need a 30-40% reduction in Cd! Anecdotal evidence proves
nothing - has anyone tested these in a wind tunnel?

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Re: Mice

2009-11-03T20:04:27Z

Walter Guinon wrote:

Tonite I hopped in my e-car for a short trip... Upon opening the hood I saw mouse turds all over the motor room... What can I do?

My favorite trap right now is my Victor electronic mouse trap - it shocks the disease-ridden vermin to death with 4 AA batteries. The irony is not lost on me. I use it as a constant reminder to be careful while working on my cars :-)

Re: Mythbusters: Golf Ball Effect improves aerodynamics

2009-11-03T19:14:25Z

Nothing against Mythbusters, but here's another take on it, almost five
months ago:
http://watch.ctv.ca/daily-planet/season-14/daily-planet-june-09-2009/#clip181550
[video unfortunately cuts out after 5:11 mins...]

In particular, the product they were looking at is:
http://www.fastskinz.com/
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Re: Mice

2009-11-03T17:50:26Z

Mice;
please read cdc link before cleaning....

you can never be to careful!!
http://www.cdc.gov/NCIDOD/diseases/hanta/hps_stc/stc_clean.htm
.....
..
.
They have same needs we do!! Only smaller: food, water, shelter

Eliminate any hole you can slide a dime in, a mouse can fit thru.

I have hung a plastic owl decoy from clothesline, havent had any mice in my garage since moving in 97'

use stainless steel, in battery box vents? I think its too hard to chew!!

read this link.... esp.. garbage and bird feeders
http://pestcontrolcanada.com/Rodents/mice.htm

good luck!!

Simon
P.S. havent seen a mouse since 2002, even an empty pop can will attract them!!

Walter Guinon wrote:

Tonite I hopped in my e-car for a short trip and noticed that the 12V house battery was low. Upon opening the hood I saw mouse turds all over the motor room. There is probably enough heat generated during charging to make the Iota and the batteries a cozy spot to sleep. I think some fell into the open frame Iota DC-DC which is energized when the charger is plugged in or the key switch is on.
Has anyone else had this problem? What can I do?

Re: Mice

2009-11-03T16:29:19Z

Now you're thinking!

(beware of PETA)

On Tue, Nov 3, 2009 at 3:55 PM, Gene Stopp <gene@...> wrote:

> Or put an exercise wheel in there with a generator on it?
>
> - Gene
>
>
> Walter, possibly you are looking at this wrong? Instead of a problem maybe
> you have come up with the holy grail of inventors. IE: A better mousetrap.
> Get a windup collector from a feedstore and bait it with peanut butter, you
> will just have to empty it out daily so they don't die and stink up your
> motor room. David Chapman.
>
> --- On Tue, 11/3/09, Roger Heuckeroth <rheuckeroth@...> wrote:
>
>
> From: Roger Heuckeroth <rheuckeroth@...>
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Mice
> To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@...>
> Date: Tuesday, November 3, 2009, 3:29 PM
>
>
> Get a cat :^))
>
> On Nov 3, 2009, at 5:16 PM, Walter Guinon wrote:
>
> >
> > Tonite I hopped in my e-car for a short trip and noticed that the
> > 12V house
> > battery was low. Upon opening the hood I saw mouse turds all over
> > the motor
> > room. There is probably enough heat generated during charging to
> > make the
> > Iota and the batteries a cozy spot to sleep. I think some fell into
> > the open
> > frame Iota DC-DC which is energized when the charger is plugged in
> > or the
> > key switch is on.
> > Has anyone else had this problem? What can I do?
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> General EVDL support: http://evdl.org/help/
> Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
> Archives: http://evdl.org/archive/
> Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
>

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Re: Mice

2009-11-03T15:58:04Z

I feel sorry for all you people with faulty cats. Mine keeps all the mice out... out of the house, out of the garage, out of the crawl space etc... She even brings them home from the wetlands behind my house and drops them next to the various entrances beheaded and disemboweled just to get her point across to any stray mice who might think she is not serious. We are lucky she is not running a country with large oil reserves :-)

damon

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Re: Mice

2009-11-03T15:26:57Z

It's amazing how fast mice will move in if you provide them with a nice,
snug place to raise a family. It's also remarkable how destructive mice
urine can be to electronics.

I've had them in battery boxes, behind the instrument panel of my Elec-Trak,
under seats, and other places. Even if the vehicle is used daily, they'll
still try to set up houskeeping.

In a garage they're really tough to keep out. Keeping a cat around DOES hold
down the population, partly because female rats and mice prefer better
neighborhoods for raising families, but that doesn't eliminate them. You
just have to check everywhere periodically and evict them before they do too
much damage.

David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator

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Re: Mice

2009-11-03T15:06:42Z

Our 'ex' outdoor cat is now indoors for the past 5 months and has caught 4 mice within the last week inside the house (nice house in nice neighborhood, just can't keep those critters out!). I store my GE elec trak riding mower outside by the shed near the woods. I recently needed to pull 6 of the NiCd STM-180 nicad batteries for a dyno setup at work. Underneath the seat where 4 of the batteries are located, there was a mouse nest and 6 grown mice!
I guess this doesn't really answer your question, but I would do a search of the archives and see what Lee Hart had to say about making these DC/DC converters more robust in an EV application.
A few comments I'll make,
1) preferably put it inside the cabin
2) if not, put it inside a semi-weather tight box
3) if you can't do this, you should at least take off the Iota enclosure and coat all of the circuit boards with a generous amount of conformal coating. I prefer the thick coating like Humiseal 1A33 that I apply with a brush on top side and bottom side covering all components, traces etc.
4) This should be done regardless of where the DC/DC is located due to vibration issues in an EV. Use silicon to attach all 'weak' looking components to the board, like through hole power resistors sticking up without support. It is preferred that you use something that doesn't release acetic acid while curing, like 'Ultra Blue'.
Good luck with the mice, and if you need a cat, I have a few extra's available for free, pickup required :-)
Rod

--- On Tue, 11/3/09, Roger Heuckeroth <rheuckeroth@...> wrote:

> From: Roger Heuckeroth <rheuckeroth@...>
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Mice
> To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@...>
> Date: Tuesday, November 3, 2009, 5:29 PM
> Get a cat :^))
>
> On Nov 3, 2009, at 5:16 PM, Walter Guinon wrote:
>
> >
> > Tonite I hopped in my e-car for a short trip and
> noticed that the
> > 12V house
> > battery was low. Upon opening the hood I saw
> mouse turds all over
> > the motor
> > room. There is probably enough heat generated during
> charging to
> > make the
> > Iota and the batteries a cozy spot to sleep. I think
> some fell into
> > the open
> > frame Iota DC-DC which is energized when the charger
> is plugged in
> > or the
> > key switch is on.
> > Has anyone else had this problem? What can I do?
> >
> > -----
> > 2000 Ford Focus, 9" ADC, Zilla 1K, 18x Sam's Club 6V
> GC-2's
> > --
> > View this message in context: http://old.nabble.com/Mice-tp26163609p26163609.html
> > Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing
> list archive
> > at Nabble.com.
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > General EVDL support: http://evdl.org/help/
> > Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
> > Archives: http://evdl.org/archive/
> > Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> General EVDL support: http://evdl.org/help/
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> Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
>

Re: Mice

2009-11-03T14:55:58Z

Or put an exercise wheel in there with a generator on it?

- Gene

Walter, possibly you are looking at this wrong? Instead of a problem maybe you have come up with the holy grail of inventors. IE: A better mousetrap.
Get a windup collector from a feedstore and bait it with peanut butter, you will just have to empty it out daily so they don't die and stink up your motor room. David Chapman.

--- On Tue, 11/3/09, Roger Heuckeroth <rheuckeroth@...> wrote:

From: Roger Heuckeroth <rheuckeroth@...>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Mice
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@...>
Date: Tuesday, November 3, 2009, 3:29 PM

Get a cat :^))

On Nov 3, 2009, at 5:16 PM, Walter Guinon wrote:

Re: Mice

2009-11-03T14:41:26Z

Walter, possibly you are looking at this wrong? Instead of a problem maybe you have come up with the holy grail of inventors. IE: A better mousetrap.
Get a windup collector from a feedstore and bait it with peanut butter, you will just have to empty it out daily so they don't die and stink up your motor room. David Chapman.

--- On Tue, 11/3/09, Roger Heuckeroth <rheuckeroth@...> wrote:

From: Roger Heuckeroth <rheuckeroth@...>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Mice
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@...>
Date: Tuesday, November 3, 2009, 3:29 PM

Get a cat :^))

On Nov 3, 2009, at 5:16 PM, Walter Guinon wrote:

>
> Tonite I hopped in my e-car for a short trip and noticed that the
> 12V house
> battery was low. Upon opening the hood I saw mouse turds all over
> the motor
> room. There is probably enough heat generated during charging to
> make the
> Iota and the batteries a cozy spot to sleep. I think some fell into
> the open
> frame Iota DC-DC which is energized when the charger is plugged in
> or the
> key switch is on.
> Has anyone else had this problem? What can I do?
>
> -----
> 2000 Ford Focus, 9" ADC, Zilla 1K, 18x Sam's Club 6V GC-2's
> --
> View this message in context: http://old.nabble.com/Mice-tp26163609p26163609.html
> Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive
> at Nabble.com.
>
> _______________________________________________
> General EVDL support: http://evdl.org/help/
> Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
> Archives: http://evdl.org/archive/
> Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>

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Re: Mice

2009-11-03T14:29:02Z

Get a cat :^))

On Nov 3, 2009, at 5:16 PM, Walter Guinon wrote:

Mice

2009-11-03T14:16:38Z

Tonite I hopped in my e-car for a short trip and noticed that the 12V house battery was low. Upon opening the hood I saw mouse turds all over the motor room. There is probably enough heat generated during charging to make the Iota and the batteries a cozy spot to sleep. I think some fell into the open frame Iota DC-DC which is energized when the charger is plugged in or the key switch is on.
Has anyone else had this problem? What can I do?

2000 Ford Focus, 9" ADC, Zilla 1K, 18x Sam's Club 6V GC-2's

Re: Fair Radio Charger. Remember them?

2009-11-03T12:53:42Z

On 3 Nov 2009 at 14:40, Bob Rice wrote:

> ISN'T there a way to double the output, but at HALF the
> amps??I THINK there is a trick, with making 36 volt chargers 72 volts?

This works with a center-tapped (push-pull) transformer and 2-diode setup,
as is typical with golf car chargers. You ignore the center tap and put a 4-
diode full bridge across the full secondary.

However, the Fair Radio chargers are already set up that way - they already
use a full bridge.

You might be able to get away with applying 240v to the 120v input tap on
the primary side of the transformer. But be careful that the output voltage
doesn't exceed the diodes' PIV voltage rating.

> Hope they are still in biz? They were in Lima Ohio as I remember?

Still around, and still offering lots of different kinds of electronic boat
anchors :

http://www.fairradio.com/

David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator

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email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
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EV special etc

2009-11-03T12:35:59Z

Hey Bob RIce...
no tv, so no PBS special but why is EVeryone ..or a lot of people, dismissing battery swap so soundly? {other than high capacity batteries coming round] Didn't Saturday Evening Post use CT Drayage EV trucks with swapset GLASS AND iron acid batteries until 1958 or 1960... The bean counters wouldn't allow them to buy gas trucks..and when they did, they went out of business!!

I don't shop where I can't charge.

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Re: Fair Radio Charger. Remember them?

2009-11-03T12:24:48Z

I have one but have not mucked with it yet. I did convert a 36 volt
Lester to 72 volts and 15 amps and it has a new rotary timer. Works
perfect. :)

Pete

Sent from my iPhone

On Nov 3, 2009, at 11:40 AM, "Bob Rice" <bobrice@...> wrote:

> Hi EVerybody;
>
> Remember those old Army Surplus isolated variable, with a big
> ceramic
> rotery switches, voltage adjustments? The thing weighs about 60 lbs,
> built
> like a tank!?Same color !! I think they are a full bridge setup,
> like Golf
> Cart chargers? ISN'T there a way to double the output, but at HALF
> the
> amps??I THINK there is a trick, with making 36 volt chargers 72 volts?
> Something ya do with the rectifier output? At present, it is flat
> out at 140
> volts! Not loud enough to charge a 144 volt car. THOUGHT I could
> trick it to
> higher voltages. , oh, 180 or so, for charging a 144 volt truk?
> Anybody ELSE
> get one of these beasties?And mess around with the output. I THINk
> alota EV
> guyz bought them , about 10 years ago,as they were about 39 bux, a
> pop. I
> got a few that were damaged and Fair just sent me two MORE! They
> didn't ask
> for any returns . Just sent me 2 MORE! I was able to make 2 good
> ones from
> the collection! FR was a pleasure to deal with! Hope they are still
> in biz?
> They were in Lima Ohio as I remember?
>
> Seeya
>
> Bob
>
> _______________________________________________
> General EVDL support: http://evdl.org/help/
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> Archives: http://evdl.org/archive/
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>

Don bucking prob

2009-11-03T12:24:15Z

Yes i did go to Colorado on my own dime, took a long look at every thing. and it seemed ok, And Yes there was a so called bucking ,,only 4 burbs.. on mild to hard PB-8 movement. on slow foot feed it dosnt do it, and Yes it did drive me crazy trying to fine out what it was. I was on a conferance call with Electric automotive and Azure dynamins for over an hour.

They had some one else look at it and he called me and said the controller is TOO smart. it was senceing the motor torque rotation, the motor was in its origonal rubber motor mounts, on a plate going to each side of the motor ,SO when the had torque tried to turn the whole motor the controller compensated for it. they said a torque rod from the motor to the frame would cure the problem.

I dont konw if Don did this yet or had some one there in Colorado do it but it should be done to fix the problem. or see if that fixes it...

Wayne ev-blue.com

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Re: service businesses to care for EVs

2009-11-03T11:57:53Z

Possibly clutch chatter. Try resurfacing.

Stub
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: Dennis Miles <dmiles33810@...>
Date: Tue, 3 Nov 2009 03:40:33
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List<ev@...>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] service businesses to care for EVs

Hi Phil, Sorry to say your comment is right in line for a DC system, but
this one is not. it is a three phase AC design with a brushless motor
connected to a "Variable Frequency Drive" designed for that motor. And after
shifting to 2nd or 3rd gear if you floor the accelerator, you will feel
strong acceleration and Bu-Bu-Bu-Bump during about a 1.5 second interval
then it will continue to accelerate thru the normal rpm range. If you do
not press hard but accelerate gently, there is no bumping, just slow smooth
driving. Wayne of "Electric Blue" has been working with "Azure Dynamics" who
provided the motor and controller as a set. I am sure the problem is in the
controller (80%) or the motor (19%) or in the batteries and wiring (1%) And
I am eagerly awaiting the successful resolution of this problem.
Regards,
Dennis Miles, (Director / CEO) Electric Vehicle Technical Institute
Inc.
Tampa Bay Region, Florida, USA Phone (863) 289 - 0690
"Mentoring, Small Group Instruction, and Hands-On training
for the EV Technicians: Building, Converting, Repairing, and Servicing
the
Electric Vehicles of Today, and the Future."

On Mon, Nov 2, 2009 at 10:39 PM, phil galati <philgalati2004@...>wrote:

> It sounds like you are getting too much of an RPM differential when
> shifting
> Your motor is either too small or your controller can not handle the amps
> your motor is calling for. Hence the bucking.
> I was running a Ford ranger with an 8" warp motor and a 400 amp Curtis
> controller on it. It was a dog. I first changed the rear to
> 4:10 to1 gears to bring the RPM range down and bring the gears up. It
> worked
> better.
>
> I have now changed the motor to a 9" with a 1,000 amp Zilla and have no
> problems at all.
>
> More horsepower never hurts. The only thing to watch out for is, that lead
> foot will eat your batteries up quick!
>
> Phil Galati
> Trans Atlantic Electric Conversions
> New Jersey
>
>
> -------Original Message-------
>
> From: Donn Kuntz
> Date: 10/20/2009 9:07:56 PM
> To: ev@...
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] service businesses to care for EVs
>
> Hello-
> In reply to Dennis Miles of the Electric Vehicle Training Center Inc.,
> who says:
> Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2009 14:31:23 -0400
> From: Dennis Miles <dmiles33810@...>
> Subject: [EVDL] Ready to update your EV
> hobby to a career?
>
> "*An EV Needs service too!** *
>
> Nearly all owner/drivers of EVs at this time
> treat their EV as a hobby.
> But, the next generation of owners will be
> drivers who do not want to
> play "Electro-mechanic" on his or her car. **
>
> We are going to need "Service" Businesses
> to care for their EVs for
> owners who, probably don?t look under the
> hood of their ICE either..."
>
> I guess we are that "next generation" that Dennis speaks of, and I think
> Dennis is dead-on in anticipating the need for customer service and vehicle
> support after purchasing an EV. Our EV is not a hobby: it's a commuter
> truck, and we generate plenty of off-the-grid electricity to power it.
> After some years of research into EV's, we decided not to wait for the
> big guys to develop an acceptable EV or hybrid. We've been
> do-it-yourselfers on cars and household wiring for years, but felt an EV
> was
> beyond our skill level, so we paid Electric Blue Auto to convert a Toyota
> Tacoma. It's an AC system, with regular lead-acid batteries: we decided
> to
> learn on cheaper batteries. They're Deca DP27 M batteries (26), Azure
> Dynamics motor and controller, and a Zivan PFC 4000 charger.
> We received the truck in June, and immediately noticed significant
> jerking in 2nd and 3rd gears, when we accelerate right after shifting.( The
> jerking is like when you try to drive in too high a gear for your speed, in
> a gas-powered engine.) We notified Electric Blue Auto about it, who
> notified both Azure Dynamics and ElectroAuto, the components distributor.
> We've been working with all three parties, and have emailed five data
> captures using Azure's ccShell software and our laptop hooked up to the
> truck. We've made several changes to the controller with the help of a
> knowledgeable and helpful ElectroAuto employee, and Electric Blue has been
> out once to check out the truck.
> However, after 4 months, the truck isn't running any smoother, and in
> fact, has really lost power and acceleration. We knew there would be a
> learning curve, and that we'd have to be actively-involved in
> problem-solving and resolution. We've put a lot of time into this, and
> still don't have a smoothly-running vehicle.
> We are curious to hear of others' experiences, feedback re: these
> components, and/or suggestions for where to go from here. You can reply on
> or off list.
>
> Donn Kuntz and Julie Boyle
> juliedonn@...
> Gill, Colorado
>
>
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Best HOUR of EV Lecture in a LONG Time ( P.S.)

2009-11-03T11:45:48Z

IF the link through EV-World did not work for some...

Here is the YouTube Direct URL:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tCArK17Hu1M
--
Steven S. Lough, Pres.
Seattle EV Association
6021 32nd Ave. N.E.
Seattle, WA 98115-7230
Day: 206 524 1351
Cell: 206 850 8535
e-mail: stevenslough@...
web: http://www.seattleeva.org

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Fair Radio Charger. Remember them?

2009-11-03T11:40:35Z

Hi EVerybody;

Remember those old Army Surplus isolated variable, with a big ceramic
rotery switches, voltage adjustments? The thing weighs about 60 lbs, built
like a tank!?Same color !! I think they are a full bridge setup, like Golf
Cart chargers? ISN'T there a way to double the output, but at HALF the
amps??I THINK there is a trick, with making 36 volt chargers 72 volts?
Something ya do with the rectifier output? At present, it is flat out at 140
volts! Not loud enough to charge a 144 volt car. THOUGHT I could trick it to
higher voltages. , oh, 180 or so, for charging a 144 volt truk? Anybody ELSE
get one of these beasties?And mess around with the output. I THINk alota EV
guyz bought them , about 10 years ago,as they were about 39 bux, a pop. I
got a few that were damaged and Fair just sent me two MORE! They didn't ask
for any returns . Just sent me 2 MORE! I was able to make 2 good ones from
the collection! FR was a pleasure to deal with! Hope they are still in biz?
They were in Lima Ohio as I remember?

Seeya

Bob

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Best HOUR of EV Lecture in a LONG time

2009-11-03T11:29:12Z

From EV-World Video...

( Non EV-World Members... Please let me know if you can bring this Video
UP...) I am not sure that folks who are not EV-World Members can access
this. But I hope you can.

http://evworld.com/EVWORLD_TV.CFM?storyid=1774

Its a 1 hour presentation by Carnegie Mellon University professors
Illah Nourbakhsh and his co-principle investigator, Greg Podnar are
exploring, through their ChargeCar project.

Optomising the relationships between commuter algorithms, battery
management, regen, ans Super Caps... etc. ALL VERY INTERESTING...

Here is their WEB Sight: http://chargecar.org/

Again... Let us know if you can access this... OR NOT.
--
Steven S. Lough, Pres.
Seattle EV Association
6021 32nd Ave. N.E.
Seattle, WA 98115-7230
Day: 206 524 1351
Cell: 206 850 8535
e-mail: stevenslough@...
web: http://www.seattleeva.org

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Re: Elithion communication with PFC-20 and Zilla

2009-11-03T11:08:56Z

Its only been recently mofidied. I've been reading up on the elithion
(because I sell it at EVComponents.com) for the last month or two. I think
he adds helpful stuff to it as he goes. The manual has been online for a
while now.

Sometimes its hard to find the info (because there is so much of it), but
his search feature really helped me in finding what I needed.

Hope that helps you out, take care
Travis Gintz
Technical Sales,
EVComponents.com

On Tue, Nov 3, 2009 at 10:51 AM, Willie McKemie <mckemie@...> wrote:

> On Tue, Nov 03, 2009 at 10:16:39AM -0800, Travis Gintz wrote:
> > Willie,
> >
> > There is a surplus of information on liionbms.com that will give you
> exactly
> > what you want.
> > Start here: http://liionbms.com/php/liionbms.php
> > Here's a functional description of how it works:
> > http://liionbms.com/php/bms_functional_descr.php
>
> That is MOST helpful, thanks! I wondered why I haven't found that
> before and noticed that it was last modified today. Perhaps it was
> just put up today.
>
> --
> Willie, ONWARD! Through the fog!
> http://counter.li.org Linux registered user #228836 since 1995
> Debian3.1/GNU/Linux system uptime 689 days 7 hours 49 minutes
>
> _______________________________________________
> General EVDL support: http://evdl.org/help/
> Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
> Archives: http://evdl.org/archive/
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>

--
Travis Gintz
1986 Honda VFR DC conversion
Http://blog.evfr.net/
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Re: Elithion communication with PFC-20 and Zilla

2009-11-03T10:51:40Z

On Tue, Nov 03, 2009 at 10:16:39AM -0800, Travis Gintz wrote:
> Willie,
>
> There is a surplus of information on liionbms.com that will give you exactly
> what you want.
> Start here: http://liionbms.com/php/liionbms.php
> Here's a functional description of how it works:
> http://liionbms.com/php/bms_functional_descr.php

That is MOST helpful, thanks! I wondered why I haven't found that
before and noticed that it was last modified today. Perhaps it was
just put up today.

--
Willie, ONWARD! Through the fog!
http://counter.li.org Linux registered user #228836 since 1995
Debian3.1/GNU/Linux system uptime 689 days 7 hours 49 minutes

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Re: Elithion communication with PFC-20 and Zilla

2009-11-03T10:16:39Z

Willie,

There is a surplus of information on liionbms.com that will give you exactly
what you want.
Start here: http://liionbms.com/php/liionbms.php
Here's a functional description of how it works:
http://liionbms.com/php/bms_functional_descr.php

As far as why its "better", no one said that....in fact, Davide put up a
list of BMS's with their specs and a cost analysis. He gives everyone the
info to make their own decision. Cost, specs, pro's, cons....
Here is that information: http://liionbms.com/php/bms_options.php

Cell boards monitor each cell and report back to the Control Unit. During
charging the control unit, depending on its programming, will tell the shunt
onboard the cell to start shunting current if the voltage reaches a certain
point. The cell boards shunt and monitor each cell. After charge is done,
the control board shuts off the charger. During discharge, the board reports
back the voltage and depending on the level, the control board will turn off
the contactor.

The communication between cells is a 1 wire link, proprietary, back to the
Control Unit.

The control unit oversees the function of the BMS. The reason there is a
Control unit, is that this style of BMS is called a distributed system. A
bunch of dumb cell boards report back to the main processor and ask "what do
we do". The controller, depending on how its programmed, responds
accordingly. The CU, also controls a cooling fan, monitors current for the
battery side as well as the charge current. It can shut off the contactor,
charger and throttle back. There is also SOC output, Canbus and RS232 output
for external displays/devices (logging, Gauge display, etc). The CU is
completely programmable.

Hope that helps answer your questions.

Regards,
Travis Gintz
Technical Sales
EVComponents.com

On Tue, Nov 3, 2009 at 9:53 AM, Willie McKemie <mckemie@...> wrote:

> On Tue, Nov 03, 2009 at 09:05:33AM -0800, Travis Gintz wrote:
> > Here's information on BMS ---> charger:
> > http://liionbms.com/php/bms_manzanita_micro.php
> >
> > As far as information on BMS ---> Zilla, It looks like its only
> > overdischarge shutoff:
> > *http://liionbms.com/php/std_bms_compatibility.php*<
> http://liionbms.com/php/lipobms.php>
>
> Travis:
>
> Can you supply a description of how the Elithion works? Why it is
> supposed to be "better"? What the cell boards do? What communication
> the cell boards have with the control unit? What the control unit
> does?
>
> --
> Willie, ONWARD! Through the fog!
> http://counter.li.org Linux registered user #228836 since 1995
> Debian3.1/GNU/Linux system uptime 689 days 6 hours 50 minutes
>
> _______________________________________________
> General EVDL support: http://evdl.org/help/
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> Archives: http://evdl.org/archive/
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>
>

--
Travis Gintz
1986 Honda VFR DC conversion
Http://blog.evfr.net/
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Re: Elithion communication with PFC-20 and Zilla

2009-11-03T10:08:32Z

Rob Trahms wrote:

I am still researching how this BMS will work with (i.e. communicate with) my existing components, a Manzanita Micro PFC-20 and a Zilla Z1K-HV.

For the Manzanita, please see: http://liionbms.com/php/bms_manzanita_micro.php

If anyone has used a Lithiumate BMS with the 'Zilla, we'd like to hear from you, to help us prepare a page on the 'Zilla, and share that information with everyone, through this page: http://liionbms.com/php/bms_system_wiring.php

Davide Andrea
D'de

Re: DC-DC

2009-11-03T09:54:51Z

Mike Boyles wrote:

should disconnect the DC-DC Converter from the pack when
the ignition key is turned off

Mike,
Your question comes up often. Please see:
http://liionbms.com/php/wp_ignition_conundrum.php

There are numerous circuit permutations for the power circuit. For a few of them, please see:
http://liionbms.com/php/ev_power_circuits.php

I hope it will help you think through solutions.
D'de

Re: Elithion communication with PFC-20 and Zilla

2009-11-03T09:53:11Z

On Tue, Nov 03, 2009 at 09:05:33AM -0800, Travis Gintz wrote:
> Here's information on BMS ---> charger:
> http://liionbms.com/php/bms_manzanita_micro.php
>
> As far as information on BMS ---> Zilla, It looks like its only
> overdischarge shutoff:
> *http://liionbms.com/php/std_bms_compatibility.php*<http://liionbms.com/php/lipobms.php>

Travis:

Can you supply a description of how the Elithion works? Why it is
supposed to be "better"? What the cell boards do? What communication
the cell boards have with the control unit? What the control unit
does?

--
Willie, ONWARD! Through the fog!
http://counter.li.org Linux registered user #228836 since 1995
Debian3.1/GNU/Linux system uptime 689 days 6 hours 50 minutes

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Re: Elithion communication with PFC-20 and Zilla

2009-11-03T09:17:03Z

On Tue, Nov 03, 2009 at 10:29:34AM -0500, Rick Beebe wrote:
> Willie McKemie wrote:
> > I have a surplus Elithion BMS for 45 TS-LFP260s which can probably be
> > used with smaller cells. All offers considered.
>
> Is it surplus because you never used it (why not?) or because you used
> it and didn't like it? As I recall you were using the EVPower BMS. Are
> you still?

The Elithion BMS I have is un-used.

I first intended to use the Elithion BMS on a 45 x TS-LFP260 project.
The Elithion was several months late in delivery so I used EVPower. I
then planned to use the Elithion on a 40 x TS-LFP160 project and found
that buying the appropriate cell boards was cost prohibitive, around $40
per cell. Add to that the difficulty of extracting information from or
about Elithion and the probability that spares will be very costly or
unavailable. So, I now have my third EVPower BMS in the pipeline. The
EVPower people are very helpful and accommodating. Spares are quickly
available and reasonably priced.

BTW, Ian Hooper is now marketing the EVPower BMS for Rod Dilkes:
http://www.evworks.com.au/
http://www.evworks.com.au/index.php?category=6
The Australian Dollar was $.7-$.75 USD when I first ordered from
EVPpower; it is now about $.91 USD.

--
Willie, ONWARD! Through the fog!
http://counter.li.org Linux registered user #228836 since 1995
Debian3.1/GNU/Linux system uptime 689 days 5 hours 48 minutes

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Re: Elithion communication with PFC-20 and Zilla

2009-11-03T09:05:33Z

Here's information on BMS ---> charger:
http://liionbms.com/php/bms_manzanita_micro.php

As far as information on BMS ---> Zilla, It looks like its only
overdischarge shutoff:
*http://liionbms.com/php/std_bms_compatibility.php*<http://liionbms.com/php/lipobms.php>

On Tue, Nov 3, 2009 at 6:22 AM, Rob Trahms <rtrahms@...> wrote:

>
> Hi all -
> I am upgrading my conversion to 45 Sky Energy SE100AHAs (144V), complete
> with an Elithion BMS. I am still researching how this BMS will work with
> (i.e. communicate with) my existing components, a Manzanita Micro PFC-20
> and
> a Zilla Z1K-HV. Any advice?
>
> Thanks,
> Rob
>
> -----
> Rob Trahms
> rtrahms@...
> Electro - the Cabby-EV
> http://chaosmgmt.blogspot.com chaosmgmt.blogspot.com
>
> --
> View this message in context:
> http://old.nabble.com/Elithion-communication-with-PFC-20-and-Zilla-tp26160154p26160154.html
> Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at
> Nabble.com.
>
> _______________________________________________
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>

--
Travis Gintz
1986 Honda VFR DC conversion
Http://blog.evfr.net/
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Re: Elithion communication with PFC-20 and Zilla

2009-11-03T08:40:34Z

On a PFC-20 or PFC-30, you can easily turn off the charger output by
putting around 4.4V on pin 2 of the external Regbus connector to simulate
thermal cutback. In the diagram below (view with fixed width font), SW1 is
an opto or relay. Close the switch to stop the charger from putting out
any amps. If you have the toggle switches on the PFC-20 set to stop
charging totally as soon as thermal cutback is detected, then you'll stop
charging as soon as any cell goes over-voltage.

+ Pin 1 (+5V)
|
\ SW1
|
>
> R1 1K
>
|
+ Pin 2
|
>
> R2 10K
>
|
+ Pin 4 (Gnd)

Close SW1, and pin 2 sees over 4.4V. This is the same as the Regbus
telling the charger to go into thermal cutback. For fancier control, you
can vary the voltage on Pin 2. The lower the voltage, the less the PFC
cuts back. For example, put 4.0V on Pin 2, and the charger may cut back to
only 2 amps. Put 3.5V on Pin 2, and maybe the PFC cuts back to 6 amps
(these numbers are samples only--experiment to get the correct values).

Bill Dennis

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Re: Elithion communication with PFC-20 and Zilla

2009-11-03T07:29:34Z

Willie McKemie wrote:
> I have a surplus Elithion BMS for 45 TS-LFP260s which can probably be
> used with smaller cells. All offers considered.

Is it surplus because you never used it (why not?) or because you used
it and didn't like it? As I recall you were using the EVPower BMS. Are
you still?

--Rick

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Re: Elithion communication with PFC-20 and Zilla

2009-11-03T07:02:40Z

On Tue, Nov 03, 2009 at 06:22:42AM -0800, Rob Trahms wrote:
>
> Hi all -
> I am upgrading my conversion to 45 Sky Energy SE100AHAs (144V), complete
> with an Elithion BMS. I am still researching how this BMS will work with
> (i.e. communicate with) my existing components, a Manzanita Micro PFC-20 and
> a Zilla Z1K-HV. Any advice?

That seems like a marginal pack. And a Zilla overkill. I presume you
can limit your current draw to about 300 amps with the Zilla?

If you do learn anything about using your BMS, please pass it along.
The Elithion guy posted here a few weeks ago and then disappeared
without contributing any useful information. Or answering any
questions.

I have a surplus Elithion BMS for 45 TS-LFP260s which can probably be
used with smaller cells. All offers considered.

--
Willie, ONWARD! Through the fog!
http://counter.li.org Linux registered user #228836 since 1995
Debian3.1/GNU/Linux system uptime 689 days 3 hours 52 minutes

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