Electrical work on bikes in the DC area

[Carl Custer-2]

Marks Joined with:
Question - does anyone have a recommendation in Northern VA or DC for
a shop that does good electrical work on bikes?  I need various
accessories hard-wired and a 12V outlet mounted.  I'm not eager to
lose the bike for a week by sending it to one of the various mechanics
in the area.  It's a 98 V-Star Classic.

[Carl]: Jebus, if you are handy with a soldering gun, do it yourself.
 That’ll save time, money and quality.  If you don’t drive in ikky
weather, you can crimp connections but I prefer soldering, liquid
tape, then shrink tubing.
Basics are:
Water resistant fuse holder: Radio Shack has good 10 AWG holders.
Relay: Again the Radio Shack 30 amp relays are good but Auto Zone &
Pep Boyz also have them.  A relay will give you the amperage your
appliance deserves.
Switch (I’ve used ordinary switches housed in film canisters from
Wally Mart but  We$t Marine has waterproof switches)
Wire: 12 AWG.  Wally Mart, auto stores, and boat stores have the same
quality wire, just different prices. I have also run a green ground
wire (Home Despot) from the battery terminal to the front so the head
set doesn’t have to transmit the juice via ground.
For triggering the relay, 16 AWG wire is good enough.
Connectors: 5/16 eye for the battery terminals; whatever the relay and
appliances demand.
For the anal:
Shrink tubing, liquid electrical tape, silicone electrical tape.
Solder, flux, & soldering gun.

Diagram:
Batt: Fuse holder: [Relay]: appliance: Ground
Ignition switched source: Switch: [Relay]: ground.

I hook the fuse holder directly to the battery and place it where it
is convenient to access.  The relay can be place elsewhere but
preferably in a low moisture area.  You can stack up to three fuse
connectors on the battery if you shim the bottom of the battery nut.
If more, consider making a single 10AWG connector to a simple fuse
block.
Attach your appliances, e.g. tooters, lights, GPS, and expresso machine.
Lay out the positions for your fuse holders and the relays then cut
your wires.  Leaving a little slack is a good thing. Leave a lot of
slack for appliances connected to the forks but still run the wires
close to the head set.

The relay has four connections:
30 goes to battery, 87 goes to appliance
85 & 86 energize the electromagnet.  One goes to switch, the other
goes to ground.

Place the shrink tubing on the wire, solder your connectors, then
shrink the tubing.
I often use two lengths of shrink tubing: one for the connection then
another that goes over and insulates the female connector (they’re
modest).
Joining two wires, trim the insulation, place the shrink tubing, flux
the wire, connect the wires, solder, add liquid tape, add shrink
tubing.  For three-way connections, liquid tape then stretchy silicone
tape is the Bees Knees.
One connection I have on all my bikes is a direct fused connection to
the battery ending in a Dipole-SAE-Trailer plug.
< http://picasaweb.google.com/carl.custer/MCStuff#5196143439984903186>
It’s handy for hooking up a Battery Tender, an electric air pump
(Leaks happen), or gloves that stay warm while you’re fueling in the
winter (ummmm comfy).

Cig plug adapters to the direct connection enable you to charge your
phone overnight
< http://picasaweb.google.com/carl.custer/MCStuff#5196143439984903202>
A direct connection for your GPS is also handy so you can plan without
running your headlight.  A buddy ran his battery down in British
Columbia on our Alaska trip this summer by playing with his GPS one
morning.  Luckily, I carry jumper cables.

Carl (wired) in Bethesda
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[Carl Custer-2]

Ah, I found a wiring diagram
<http://picasaweb.google.com/carl.custer/MCStuff#5382952059236814066>


On Fri, Sep 18, 2009 at 7:05 PM,  <PenguinBiker@...> wrote:

>
> ----- "Carl Custer" <carl.custer@...> wrote:
>
>> Marks Joined with:
>> Question - does anyone have a recommendation in Northern VA or DC for
>> a shop that does good electrical work on bikes?
>
>> [Carl]: Jebus, if you are handy with a soldering gun, do it yourself.
>>  That’ll save time, money and quality.
>
> I have to second that.
> Also the rest of the post, good advice all.
>
> John (soldering fool) W.

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[Thomas Jordan]

Something to note is that no major vehicle manufacturers (moto or auto) solder. Everything is crimped. A properly crimped connection will last longer than a soldered joint. Use either heat shrink connectors or (my preference) non-insulated connectors and heat-shrink insulation. Don't shrink with an open flame. Ratcheting crimp tools (properly adjusted) ensure that you don't over-crimp and damage the wire. People generally recommend soldering if they're "old school" and never learned or never invested in proper crimping methods and tools.  :)

YMMV

-T


Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T

-----Original Message-----
From: Carl Custer <carl.custer@...>

Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2009 18:51:51
To: Joshua Marks<joshuabmarks@...>; List DC Cycles<dc-cycles@...>
Subject: [dc-cycles] Electrical work on bikes in the DC area


Marks Joined with:
Question - does anyone have a recommendation in Northern VA or DC for
a shop that does good electrical work on bikes?  I need various
accessories hard-wired and a 12V outlet mounted.  I'm not eager to
lose the bike for a week by sending it to one of the various mechanics
in the area.  It's a 98 V-Star Classic.

[Carl]: Jebus, if you are handy with a soldering gun, do it yourself.
 That’ll save time, money and quality.  If you don’t drive in ikky
weather, you can crimp connections but I prefer soldering, liquid
tape, then shrink tubing.
Basics are:
Water resistant fuse holder: Radio Shack has good 10 AWG holders.
Relay: Again the Radio Shack 30 amp relays are good but Auto Zone &
Pep Boyz also have them.  A relay will give you the amperage your
appliance deserves.
Switch (I’ve used ordinary switches housed in film canisters from
Wally Mart but  We$t Marine has waterproof switches)
Wire: 12 AWG.  Wally Mart, auto stores, and boat stores have the same
quality wire, just different prices. I have also run a green ground
wire (Home Despot) from the battery terminal to the front so the head
set doesn’t have to transmit the juice via ground.
For triggering the relay, 16 AWG wire is good enough.
Connectors: 5/16 eye for the battery terminals; whatever the relay and
appliances demand.
For the anal:
Shrink tubing, liquid electrical tape, silicone electrical tape.
Solder, flux, & soldering gun.

Diagram:
Batt: Fuse holder: [Relay]: appliance: Ground
Ignition switched source: Switch: [Relay]: ground.

I hook the fuse holder directly to the battery and place it where it
is convenient to access.  The relay can be place elsewhere but
preferably in a low moisture area.  You can stack up to three fuse
connectors on the battery if you shim the bottom of the battery nut.
If more, consider making a single 10AWG connector to a simple fuse
block.
Attach your appliances, e.g. tooters, lights, GPS, and expresso machine.
Lay out the positions for your fuse holders and the relays then cut
your wires.  Leaving a little slack is a good thing. Leave a lot of
slack for appliances connected to the forks but still run the wires
close to the head set.

The relay has four connections:
30 goes to battery, 87 goes to appliance
85 & 86 energize the electromagnet.  One goes to switch, the other
goes to ground.

Place the shrink tubing on the wire, solder your connectors, then
shrink the tubing.
I often use two lengths of shrink tubing: one for the connection then
another that goes over and insulates the female connector (they’re
modest).
Joining two wires, trim the insulation, place the shrink tubing, flux
the wire, connect the wires, solder, add liquid tape, add shrink
tubing.  For three-way connections, liquid tape then stretchy silicone
tape is the Bees Knees.
One connection I have on all my bikes is a direct fused connection to
the battery ending in a Dipole-SAE-Trailer plug.
< http://picasaweb.google.com/carl.custer/MCStuff#5196143439984903186>
It’s handy for hooking up a Battery Tender, an electric air pump
(Leaks happen), or gloves that stay warm while you’re fueling in the
winter (ummmm comfy).

Cig plug adapters to the direct connection enable you to charge your
phone overnight
< http://picasaweb.google.com/carl.custer/MCStuff#5196143439984903202>
A direct connection for your GPS is also handy so you can plan without
running your headlight.  A buddy ran his battery down in British
Columbia on our Alaska trip this summer by playing with his GPS one
morning.  Luckily, I carry jumper cables.

Carl (wired) in Bethesda
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[Michael Jordan]

>
> Something to note is that no major vehicle manufacturers (moto or auto)
> solder. Everything is crimped. A properly crimped connection will last
> longer than a soldered joint.
>

What he said - please put emphasis on the word "properly" in "properly
crimped", though. The multi purpose tool that came with your collection of
terminals isn't going to cut it.

Solder is still king in electronics where we're dealing with miniscule
currents and voltages, but that isn't the case here.

As for the rest of it, check out West Marine or similar as your first choice
for a source of bits - boats and motorcycles share a lot of the same issues.

--
Michael J.
'86 SRX-6
'93 GSX1100G
'03 DL1000
AMA
IBA #3901
USAF (Ret)
NRA
etc.
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--- On Fri, 9/18/09, Thomas Jordan <thomas.jordan@...> wrote:

> From: Thomas Jordan <thomas.jordan@...>
> Subject: Re: [dc-cycles] Electrical work on bikes in the DC area
> To: "List DC Cycles" <dc-cycles@...>
> Date: Friday, September 18, 2009, 8:08 PM
> Something to note is that no major
> vehicle manufacturers (moto or auto) solder. Everything is
> crimped. A properly crimped connection will last longer than
> a soldered joint.... People generally recommend
> soldering if they're "old school" and never learned or never
> invested in proper crimping methods and tools.  :)

Wow. All this is going to come as quite a shock to all the auto racers who use and all the engineers at AMP who designed things like AMP Power Series 50 to 350 amp connectors.

I would say that people generally recommend crimping if they're "new school" and never learned to solder properly.  8;)

It may indeed be that the restricted space available on bikes dictates crimping, but there are still a lot of applications where soldering is preferable.

-- Larry (old school, whose Formula Ford and auto-x Miata both use soldered AMP connectors...)



     
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[Thomas Jordan]

AMP Power Series connectors are actually meant to be crimped. The fact that
you and your Auto-X/FF buddies are using them improperly is irrelevant.

From the datasheet, which I guess you haven't read:
AMP Power Series Connectors provide a durable, quick connect/disconnect
means to transmit "power" levels of current and voltage (15-275 A, 600 V
AC/DC). This product family is
primarily comprised of single-pole and 2-pole (battery) connector housings,
crimp snap-in contacts, and accessories.

The key word in all of that is "crimp." At no point does it mention a
product offering of "solder contacts."

No vehicle manufacturers solder anything that isn't on a PCB. Not even
battery cables.

Next?

Thomas Jordan
Not new school, not old school. Just right.


On Sat, Sep 19, 2009 at 12:10 AM, pltrgyst@... <pltrgyst@...>wrote:

>
> Wow. All this is going to come as quite a shock to all the auto racers who
> use and all the engineers at AMP who designed things like AMP Power Series
> 50 to 350 amp connectors.
>
> I would say that people generally recommend crimping if they're "new
> school" and never learned to solder properly.  8;)
>
> It may indeed be that the restricted space available on bikes dictates
> crimping, but there are still a lot of applications where soldering is
> preferable.
>
> -- Larry (old school, whose Formula Ford and auto-x Miata both use soldered
> AMP connectors...)
>

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